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BTD Forums  /  Nonnie Clubhouse  /  Thyroid hypo/hyper
Posted by: Molly, Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 3:00pm
Hi,  My NP just diagnosised hypothyroidism :P for me.  I did post on the thread Diet and Nutrition where one lady(O type) wrote in that she was thinking about whether she was having thyroid problems.  But what I wanted to ask here was since O non-secretor's are at a high level risk(from Dr D's book) for thyroid disease are there any out there that have been diagnosised with hypothyroidism and what ??) have you done for your self?  The NP suggested a thyroid pill to be taken after each meal.  The minerial test(from hair sample) gave food to avoid and foods to increase.  By the way, this included many of Dr. D's  O type blood food list.  I think(as I said on the other list)that I would be in much worse shape if I hadn't started this O type blood diet last year :K).  But now I'm looking for other O- nons who might be in the same boat!
   Molly
Posted by: Cheryl_O_Blogger, Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 3:26pm; Reply: 1
I've only had borderline hypothroidism once.  I took a very small amount of synthroid for about a year, but my doctor took me off of it.  My TSH hovered near the top end of normal.  When I started BTD, I also started to take kelp or bladderwrack daily.  My TSH dropped to low normal.   I now only take the bladderwrack that is in Deflect O, only 2-3 per day.  If you can catch hypothyroidism early you can delay the progression at least.  Weigh management is my main health concern.  I focus on including the foods that increase metabolism, mainly beneficial proteins.  I also focus on decreasing or avoiding the foods that are metabolic inhibitors.  Cauliflower and many of the dairy products are the worst culprits here.  In my Type O food list book, I have written an M with an up or down arrow to indicate foods affecting metabolism.  I have the hardest time keeping the dairy, especially cheeses out, but they are some of the worst.
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 4:03pm; Reply: 2
how are grains treated in your health series book, Cheryl?
Posted by: Don, Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 4:58pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from MolllyES
My NP just diagnosised hypothyroidism :P for me.

How were you diagnosed?

You might want to try supplementing with some of the amino acid L-Tyrosine, 500mg 1-2 times a day in the first half of your day. L-tyrosine is required to make thyroid hormones.

As Cheryl said bladderwrack may help because it is high in iodine and fucus, as well as other nutrients. Iodine is the other item needed to make thyroid hormones. Fucus is particularly helpful for type Os.

Posted by: Cheryl_O_Blogger, Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 5:00pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from lola
how are grains treated in your health series book, Cheryl?


Most of the grains are reclassified as neutral infrequent (once a month or less).   That says avoid to me.  Rice, rye, millet, oatmeal, ricemilk and soymilk are all NI.  Manna is actually classified as beneficial in all of the Health Library books.  Ezekiel bread, spelt and kamut remain neutral, so I mainly use these.  I've found a granola that is a mix of spelt and oatmeal (VitaSpelt Maple Almond), so use that in place of an all oatmeal granola (Bare Naked granola for example).  I have a yogurt/granola breakfast three days a week.  Almond milk is the choice left for a non-dairy milk.  I don't do cereal/milk often, but would use almond milk there and possibly for cooking.
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 5:17pm; Reply: 5
thanks Cheryl!)
Posted by: Molly, Thursday, April 6, 2006, 1:01am; Reply: 6
Hi MoDon,  You asked how I was diagnosised.  Hair analysis of minerals showed slow metabolism a tendency toward decreased thyroid function and adrenal function.  "...mineral pattern reflected in these test results is indicative of a slow metobolic(Type #1)pattern."  However, in reading this report I don't have most of symptoms like: over or under weight(I'm 5'5" and weigh 122) , fatigue, dry skin, constipation, depression or lowered resistance.  Still my blood pressure was low the couple of times that it was taken and I don't like cold places(the temp my husband would like in the house.)  BUT the analysis follows the high calcium/potassium ratio, low sodium/magnesium ratio, high calcium/phosphorus ratio and there is a low calcium /magnesium ratio.  The magnesium was off the chart at 63.4 where the reference range was 2.0 to 11.0.   ??)I'm not sure you will understand these results but that is how the lab came up with that analysis.  They mention that this report should not be construed as diagnostic.  It is only a source of information for the NP.  I will have the test again in three months.  
  Molly
Posted by: Molly, Thursday, April 6, 2006, 1:18am; Reply: 7
Hi Lola and Cheryl,  This mineral analysis report ended with a list of foods to avoid and I was wondering if they would be those that caused slow metabolitic rate?  Some that are on my type O list are horseradish, molasses(?), wild rice, avocados(non-sec), almonds, hazelnuts(?), liver, kale, pecans, sardines, spinach, walnuts, figs-dried, canned tuna.  And the next lists is stated as foods that may be increased in the diet,  they are: lean beef, eggs, beef ribs, tuna(fresh broiled), turkey, lobster(?), flounder, cod, pike, rice - bran, legumes.  
  Those with a (?) I don't know if they are on my O type diet because I don't usually eat them.  But do let me know if these two lists are foods that effect the metabolitic rate and I will place a "m + or m-" by them on my food list, thanks.
  Molly
Posted by: Don, Thursday, April 6, 2006, 3:57am; Reply: 8
I wouldn't trust a hair analysis to determine thyroid function. Have you checked your resting axillary temperature to see if indicates a low thyroid function?

Remember that those food lists from your hair analysis are a one-size-fits-all recommendation. I recommend that you just follow your type O non-secretor BTD, which is designed to optimize your metabolism.
Posted by: Cool_Mom (Guest), Thursday, April 6, 2006, 4:47pm; Reply: 9
I have an over active thyroid and the blood tests showed it up very quickly.
Is it not so for an underactive one?
I had radioactive iodine treatment and my thyroid is still a touch hyper but not enough that they want to give me another dose of treatment.
I go for blood work evey 6 months to see what's up.
I always thought that whether you were hypo or hyper that it would show in the blood.
I know when it was really hyper my hair was a mess and falling out. My friend is hypo and she has bad hair too.
I am interested in what you find out.
Posted by: Don, Thursday, April 6, 2006, 4:53pm; Reply: 10
Yes, a blood test will indicate what your thyroid status is, but Molly had a hair analysis done and they are using those result to tell her about her thyroid. That is why I susgested that she check her temperature. If that is off she may want to consider a blood test to find out more specifically what is going on with her thyroid function.
Posted by: Molly, Thursday, April 6, 2006, 9:03pm; Reply: 11
Hi MoDon,
  The more I read that report the more I thought that I really don't fit this pattern.  So I called my husband's family practice medical doc and am going to see him and ask for a thyroid blood test.  I'll tell you all more when I get the results.  I didn't know about the resting aux. temp test and would have done that sooner.  This all started with a blood test(done at a health fair) that had a flag for high SGOT/AST.  I knew that I wouldn't follow a regular MD's advise so I went to a NP and he suggested the hair analysis to show how my body is metabolising things and here I am - all confused.  BUT still sticking to the EFBT diet.  Since I was a veg for 20 years I was wondering if my thyroid is stuck on the meat protein.  Is that anything a former vegetarian has ever asked?
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, April 6, 2006, 9:31pm; Reply: 12
most O vegetarians are sadly 'starchatarians'.......this creates havoc to their insulin receptors, most of the time, and thus the symptoms you are perceiving.
Posted by: Molly, Friday, April 7, 2006, 12:28am; Reply: 13
Hi Lola,  I've been on the ERBY diet for almost a year(May 2005) and before that I didn't eat white potatoes, white bread or excessive starches(is that what "startchatarians" is) that I know.    What I said was that I did not see the symptoms -  no fatique, no insomnia(I sleep when I go to bed right away), no dry skin,  no low resistance.  The MD asked that I stop all pills for three days before taking the blood tests so I'll have the thyroid test on Monday.  In the mean time I'll do the resting axillary temp.  Thanks for listening and the thoughts.  
Posted by: Lola, Friday, April 7, 2006, 12:47am; Reply: 14
keep us posted, thanks! )
Posted by: Molly, Tuesday, April 11, 2006, 11:34pm; Reply: 15
Hi, Thanks for suggesting a blood test.  The MD did the blood test where you have the one number, my results was 1.685 and the range is .350 to 5.500.  So I now I think I need to go back to the NP and see what he thinks of the blood test before I go and add thyroid glandular capsules.  Again thanks for listening to me and helping me think this thing through.  Molly
Posted by: italybound, Wednesday, April 12, 2006, 11:54am; Reply: 16
Molly, resting auxillary temp is a big indicator of hypothyroidism. Also the fact the you don't like cold. Are you fingers and toes cold in the winter or colder times? I mean colder than the rest of you?
One thing I learned when I had my hair analysis is that when things are way off the charts, that indicates that certain minerals, etc are not being absorbed well. Which means your macronutrients (I think??)  are not in balance. Someone else will probably be able to give  you more advice on this aspect.  Also hair analysis, I've heard, are not good indicators of certain things, as they only take in to account what is going on at the moment. Now if you're checking for poisoning, they're great. :-(   Read too many stories on that.  :-/  
I totally agree w/ MoDon when he recommends "  those food lists from your hair analysis are a one-size-fits-all recommendation. I recommend that you just follow your type O non-secretor BTD, which is designed to optimize your metabolism. "
Most advice you get from anyone other than here, is going to be a one-size-fits-all fix. No one else is going to take blood type into account. :-(
You may not be having some of the symptoms of thyroid because of following the BTD. It may be helping w/ some things, but not to the extent that it has taken care of all issues.
Will be interested to see what the NP says re: test results. What tests did they run? T3, T4 and TSH? Some drs think all are important to get a good reading, some only run TSH


Cheryl, when a food is listed as a metabolic inhibitor, does this only mean that it inhibits the rate of your metabolism or does it mean something more?   Thanks for those suggestions for granola also.
Posted by: kmander (Guest), Thursday, April 13, 2006, 12:29am; Reply: 17
Hi, I am sort of new here, but when having a blood test for thyroid, please ask to have TSH, T4, T3, Reverse T3, and Reverse T4.  It is important that you have a complete thyroid panel done.  TSH just means "thyroid stimulating hormone".  You also need to know if you are converting T4 into the active thyroid hormone T3.  Also, there are other thyroid diagnoses like Wilson's Syndrome that is only determined by the Reverse T3 levels.  
    Dr. David Brownstein, whom I have spoken with and has helped my with my son in the past, suggests that you consume no gluten.  Gluten seems to interfere with thyroid function.  Also, there has been some evidence in the past that almonds can also interfere with thyroid.  If they are soaked for 24 hrs and rinsed, they loose their enzyme inhibitors and are much more bioavailable to the body.  
    After my son gave up gluten (Type B+) his thyroid completely normalized.  We have a history of thyroid in our family, so I have chosen to stay away from most grains with gluten.  
    I do agree with the hair analysis not be a very reliable test for thyroid.  There recommendations are pretty standard.  It would be in your best interest to have the complete thyroid panel done and if you need thyroid support, ask for Armour.  
Posted by: italybound, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 11:33am; Reply: 18
kmander, firstly welcome to this forum. Lots of great people and great reading as well. :-)  I look forward to more of your posts. :-)
Very interesting info on the thyroid tests. I noticed you didn't mention T7. May I ask why or do you not know why they didn't run this? I have never heard of the reverse T3 and T4, so that's good info. Thanks. My new dr refused to run anything but the TSH and I'm a little, well more than a little, put off by that. I may not continue w/ her. Will have to do some checking. She came highly recommended and does BTD to some degree. Would love it if Dr D would comment on which tests NEED to be done.
Re: the gluten affecting thyroid levels, I would be interested in some feedback from those here on that, as the advice you got from your dr (not that he/she might not be right and I'm not trying to say anything bad about he/she either) was probably pretty much one-size-fits-all advice.  That tends to make me nervous.
Bad news for me on the almond front. I eat my share of them and not soaked. My NP gave me a sheet on how to do this ( it was much more than soaking them overnight). Need to find that.  Would be interested on some comments about this as well.
Would you mind my asking what kind of dr is Dr. Brownstein?
Posted by: kmander (Guest), Thursday, April 13, 2006, 11:53am; Reply: 19
Dr. David Brownstein has written a book called, "Overcoming Thyroid Disorders".  He is an M.D. in West Brownfield, MI.  His research has shown that some thyroid sufferers also have a sensitivity to gluten.  In my son's case, we found out he was celiac.  But also with clients that I work with, we eliminate or drastically decrease the amount of gluten they consume. This does seem to help.
    If you doc is not willing to do a complete thyrod panel, I would find another doc.  Remember, you hire them, they don't hire you.  
    Another thing to consider, you must have enough selenium in the body to convert T4 into the active hormone T3.  You might think about checking your selenium levels.  Although you did have a hair analysis - what did that shoud for selenium?
    T7?  I am sorry, I have not read anything about that particular hormone.  Can you tell me about it?
    well I am off to work.  Hope the above is helpful.

Kim
Posted by: italybound, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 1:34pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from kmander
Dr. David Brownstein has written a book called, "Overcoming Thyroid Disorders".  He is an M.D. in West Brownfield, MI.  His research has shown that some thyroid sufferers also have a sensitivity to gluten.  In my son's case, we found out he was celiac.  But also with clients that I work with, we eliminate or drastically decrease the amount of gluten they consume. .
    If you doc is not willing to do a complete thyrod panel, I would find another doc.  Remember, you hire them, they don't hire you.  
    Another thing to consider, you must have enough selenium in the body to convert T4 into the active hormone T3.  You might think about checking your selenium levels.  Although you did have a hair analysis - what did that shoud for selenium?
    T7?  I am sorry, I have not read anything about that particular hormone.  Can you tell me about it?     Kim


Kim, thanks for all the info. And the little 'pep talk' about my new dr.  I was really  :o
when she refused to do other thyroid tests, saying only TSH is needed. I was so pumped about finding a dr that knows BTD. I may call her and see if she will agree to do these other tests. If not, I'll have to look for another dr. My other dr will run anything I ask. He's not on board w/ BTD, but maybe he is a better choice for this issue.
I will check on the selenium thing. Have to find my hair analysis results first. :-(     That can't be checked by blood can it?
On the rT4, is that supposed to be free T4? See this article:
http://www.weeksmd.com/articles/thyroid/info.php
On the T7 issue: http://www.endocrineweb.com/tests.html
I really like this website. I've used it lots of times as a referral for thyroid info. It's an easy read.
Posted by: Jane, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 3:03pm; Reply: 21
There's a lot of information on Mary Shoman's site thyroid.about.com.  I had never heard about the gluten connection or about almonds.  I've been eating almond butter with rye manna bread and eggs for months now.  I'll have to stop and see if that makes a difference.
I'll have to get that book by Dr. Brownstein, sounds very interesting.  I have no thyroid.  It was removed surgically so I'm not sure exactly what that would mean for me.
Jane
Posted by: Cheryl_O_Blogger, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 3:04pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from MolllyES
Hi Lola and Cheryl,  This mineral analysis report ended with a list of foods to avoid and I was wondering if they would be those that caused slow metabolitic rate?  Some that are on my type O list are horseradish, molasses(?), wild rice, avocados(non-sec), almonds, hazelnuts(?), liver, kale, pecans, sardines, spinach, walnuts, figs-dried, canned tuna.  And the next lists is stated as foods that may be increased in the diet,  they are: lean beef, eggs, beef ribs, tuna(fresh broiled), turkey, lobster(?), flounder, cod, pike, rice - bran, legumes.  
  Those with a (?) I don't know if they are on my O type diet because I don't usually eat them.  But do let me know if these two lists are foods that effect the metabolitic rate and I will place a "m + or m-" by them on my food list, thanks.
  Molly


Sorry, I lost track of this thread.  I've also had hair analysis done in the past.  I would just filter the list of foods the report recommends and emphasize those that agree with the blood type classification.  Generally the lean meats and beneficial fish help metabolism, while many of the cheeses and other foods inhibit the metabolic rate.  I sure wouldn't see myself reducing walnuts in my diet, although Dr. D does recommend limiting nuts and seeds if weight management is a problem, which doesn't seem to be true for you.  You might use some walnut oil to be sure to get the beneficial oils from walnuts.  I wouldn't classify these foods the same as BTD metabolic inhibitors or enhancers.  I might put something like H+ to indicate the hair analysis recommended increasing.  If there's a conflict between BTD and the hair analysis you might just go moderate on the food.  The main benefit of avocado for nonnies is that is reduces pellicle on the teeth, helping with cavities which can be a problem for nonnies.  If you decide to limit avocadoes just be very diligent with dental hygiene.  I'm not so familiar with the nonnie foods, but you can find those values in Typebase 4 online.  Some of the info on effect on metabolism is there as well, but is mainly found in the encyclopedia.  Glad to here your TSH is normal.  There was an article, I think by Tom Greenfield that the upper normal value for TSH is changing to 3 or 3.5, but sounds like you're well below that.  Checking basal temperature is still a good idea.  TSH alone can be deceiving.

Posted by: Cheryl_O_Blogger, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 3:17pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from pkarmeier
Cheryl, when a food is listed as a metabolic inhibitor, does this only mean that it inhibits the rate of your metabolism or does it mean something more?   Thanks for those suggestions for granola also.


I don't recall that Dr.D really expands on this, but I think there are various things going on.  From some other things I've read, the dairy products may sort of anesthetize the digestive system, slowing things down digestion wise.  Compounds called casomorphins can be produced that are very similar to morphine.   Perhaps that's why casein is a Type I avoid and whey only a Type II.  These casomorphins are derived from casein. A book on food addiction postulates that this is why dairy may actually be addictive.  Some of the foods may interfere with absorption of iodine, etc.  The foods that enhance metabolism often promote storage of lean body mass as opposed to fat mass, lean meats as an example provided CLA thought to promote lean mass.  It seems there are three main things going on:

- foods that promote either fat (bad) or lean (good) mass storage
-foods that interfere with absorption of iodine (bad) or that provide tyrosine (good), factors that relate to thyroid production
-and possibly things like casomorphins that just generally slow us down, make us feel sluggish, so kind of downregulate activity.

The starchy foods could probably hit all three of those categories.
Posted by: Molly, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 4:11pm; Reply: 24
Hi Kim,
  Why do the T3,T4,etc( thyroid test) if the results TSH don't show you any problem?  I thought if the  TSH  is the high or low range and then you'd go on to the T3, T4?  Since I have to pay for the tests I'd have to consider  1) my TSH is in range, 2) I don't have symptoms(and don't eat gluten)and 3) my Selium was well into the normal range(normal .03 to .18 and I was .08).  In the Nutritional elements my zine and cobalt were high.  The other items, in the hair analysis, that were either high or low were on the chart  "Additional Elements".   In the toxic elemetns the only thing that registered was Cadmium, still it was in the reference range.  Maybe its hair products?
  Molly
Posted by: italybound, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 4:30pm; Reply: 25
Molly, your reg medical insurance should pay for T3 and T4 tests, if you have insurance.  From my understanding TSH is not the true determinator of how well your thyroid is functioning. If you go to the link I provided up a few posts, there is some very good info there and explains it well.
Well, here it is, it's quite a few posts up:
http://www.endocrineweb.com/tests.html

the other site, more towards the bottom, gives some ways you can physically check on your own:
http://www.weeksmd.com/articles/thyroid/info.php

I also noticed some info on precise testing and armour vs synthroid at the left hand side towards the top. Gotta go check that out...............
Posted by: Don, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 5:07pm; Reply: 26
Molly, What you want to do is check the entire thyroid system. TSH is produced by the pituitary and is only one part of the system. In fact, you really can't even completely evaluate TSH on its own.

For example, secondary hypothyroidism is where the pituitary doesn't produce enough TSH. You really need some T3 and T4 numbers to tell if the amount of TSH matches them. In your case, if your T3 and T4 were really low, but your TSH is normal that could indicate that your body is not producing enough TSH.  This could be caused by the hypothalamus not producing enough TRH, which stimulates the pituitary to release TSH, or the pituitary just not producing enough TSH. There is a follow on test called a TRH stimulation test that can determine which one is the problem.
Posted by: Cheryl_O_Blogger, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 5:17pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from MolllyES
 Maybe its hair products?
  Molly


You should have been advised not to use products on your hair before the sample was taken.  I had to let color grow off of my hair.  I also used Avalon organics shampoo only around the time the sample was taken.  I had very high sodium and potassium, but in the correct ratio.  My nutritionist thought that might have been due to a home water conditioning system, but I didn't have one.  So, yes there are definitely things that can interfere with the hair analysis results.
Posted by: italybound, Thursday, April 13, 2006, 5:28pm; Reply: 28
MoDon thanks for that explanation above. I knew that there were a bunch of different glands involved, but couldn't remember all the names.
Molly, what MoDon explained is to what I was referring.  It's not as simple as the doctors would lead us to believe. There are so many things that have to be in sync for it all to work right. Like a clock, if one cog is broken, nothing works JUST as it should. :-)
Posted by: Wulf, Friday, April 14, 2006, 4:44am; Reply: 29
Molly, I was diagnosed with a multi nodule goitre and an underactive thyroid(Hypo) over 6 years ago. My Naturopath recommended BTD and a Homeopathic Kelp treatment which as it happened turned out to be Fucus V. I have followed the BTD and the Kelp drops strictly fo 6 years and the last two years my annual blood test has shown my thyroid back into the lower levels of what is considered the normal range. No T3 or T4, no synthroid, just a good healthy lifestyle and the Fucus supplement.

BTD the way of the future.

Paul
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