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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  Whole Milk/Dairy and Type B
Posted by: san j, Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:17am
Yes, B's, we're deep into this subject on the "B and Weight Loss" thread.  But I think Dairy is an important part of the diet of every B, not just those who are "battling" excess weight.

I just googled "milk", "whole milk", "cream" with "nutrition", "diet".... There are actually Anti-Milk sites...

Most nutritional/diet sites laud "fat-free" and "reduced fat" dairy products.

I want to say that I'm not only losing weight enjoying some full-fat, i.e., whole dairy every single day, but... I think I'm happier.  I'm just more even-keeled, on a higher level.  And it doesn't have anything to do with what's going on in my life which is very, very insane right now.

Full fat dairy, i.e. with the cream on top, is a very satisfying, perhaps slower-digesting, food, and uplifting to my psyche.  I just say, "MMMMM" when I get that creamy hit.

And, yes, the pants continue to fall down.  For now, I'll use the belt, but soon I'll be back in former (smaller-sized) pants altogether!
Posted by: san j, Monday, September 19, 2005, 7:04am; Reply: 1
Earlier today I was at an outdoor festival, where there was a booth where Great Arabic Coffee/Tea beverages were being made.  And they pride themselves on offering "heavy whipping cream" as an option in the beverage.

So I ordered the strongest Turkish-style coffee they had, and I asked for the Cream in it.  And with great dramatic flourish the guy was pouring out of this "heavy whipping cream" carton the white liquid into my cup, and I said,

"Excuse me, but that's not 'Heavy Whipping Cream' in there.  It's diluted.  And I know because I pour the Real Thing into my food several times a week".  The stuff was bubbly/aerated, and had none of that unctuous magnificent splendour that has brought me to the verge of smaller pants sizes of late.

Well, I walked away with my $3. coffee (lovely because of the cardamom).  But I know the Real Thing, and, B's, we are Entitled to It.

Milk.  Cream. Accept nothing less!  Yeah!

(WHO'S a fanatic?)
Posted by: Lola, Monday, September 19, 2005, 4:57pm; Reply: 2
you lucky Bs!!!!!!!! )) lol
Posted by: mhameline, Monday, September 19, 2005, 10:17pm; Reply: 3
Yes - I agree - you B's are soooo lucky to be able to enjoy dairy freely - my husband is a B and we just found out - makes me miss it a lot knowing he can have it and do well with it.  B's are the people those dairy commercials were made for where they say to have 3 servings a day to help you lose weight.  Oh well - I guess we work with the type we have because as long as I avoid dairy (and wheat too of course) then I keep having to buy smaller and smaller clothes.  This weekend I even bought a pair of size 6 jeans - I haven't been in a size 6 since high school - I was shocked and amazed.  I had a size 8 on and they felt a little big so I just decided what the heck I'll try the 6's on to see how much farther I have to go before they will fit and no problem.  A year ago I would not have been able to fit these jeans over my thighs much less get them zipped and buttoned and feel great in them!!  BTD is my way to eat for life!!!:) ;)
Posted by: san j, Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 5:37am; Reply: 4
Owning one's d-galactosamine inheritance is the best thing a B can choose to do for him/her health via nutrition, I believe I'm finding.

I've said I believe it's mood-balancing as well, and I want to elaborate on that right here.

I've had the kind of couple of days that just...throw one for a loop.  Very, very difficult goings-on.  Actually "traumatic" and "dramatic" and, even potentially "tragic" come to mind.

I must of course pay homage to the God Who keeps me, but I've also had a certain sense of emotional comfort/strength/centeredness;  it's the same feeling I get from the full-fat dairy foods more directly, so I'm tentatively here saying that I think full fat dairy may very well be, scientifically, the "comfort food" it is reputed more casually to be, specifically for the B.

I'm just making friends with my Blood Type Sugar, my antigen.  I'm giving it lots of strokes and encouragement with the dairy I most enjoy.

The weight loss, actually, is a bonus.  And I do need to lose weight, so ... it's a Good Thing.
Posted by: san j, Wednesday, September 21, 2005, 12:59am; Reply: 5
B friends:

I would be incredibly gratified to read any stories of similar enjoyment of full fat dairy.  Help me here.  There are so many threads going re: weight loss, satiety, yogurt, etc.  They're all crossing paths.  But this is the one with the Specific Title.

Please indulge me here.  Have any of you had this epiphany?  When? How?
Kristin, you mentioned digging the full fat dairy.  Did you always?  Did you leave it and come back to it?

Ellie, newhampshiregirl, henriettebsec:  Hello out there!

Luvya, Exj-j
Posted by: san j, Sunday, September 25, 2005, 12:54am; Reply: 6
Friends from "B and Individuality II":  Tell your Dairy stories!  I want to know if any of you experienced a conversion from fractionated milk/yogurt (aka: Reduced-Fat or Skim) to Whole Milk, Cream, Sour Cream, Cottage Cheese, Whole Mozzarella, etc.

And, if so:  "Was it good for you too?"
Posted by: Kristin, Sunday, September 25, 2005, 2:26am; Reply: 7
re: full-fat dairy

When I started eating yogurt consistently many years ago, I always chose the whole milk brands. Also ate sour cream, kefir cheese, rarely any reduced fat cheeses.

But for milk I would buy the 2% brand as whole milk seemed to spoil quickly. I have since come to realize that whole milk keeps about the same length of time as other milks and now purchase whole milk too.

I did try the Fage Greek style yogurt. It is so incredibly rich that I can't use it like I would other yogurts. But it is nice as a kind of spread on manna bread.
Posted by: san j, Sunday, September 25, 2005, 10:46pm; Reply: 8
I hear you, Kristin, about the richness of the Greek yogurt.  And, indeed, I don't find myself using it in an "everyday" sort of way as I do the thinner stuff.  I, too, spread it on manna bread.  Try it with your favorite herbs.  I like infusing all my yogurts with herbs, including our Friend Parsley.

There's this wonderful mixture sold as "Yogurt Spices" in a spice jar.  I get it at Cost Plus.  Mix it in with your regular yogurt and let it sit in the fridge -- overnight, whatever.  And you end up with a lovely Raita, if you like that, which I sure do.
Posted by: Don, Sunday, September 25, 2005, 11:37pm; Reply: 9
What are the yogurt spices?
Posted by: Lola, Monday, September 26, 2005, 2:42am; Reply: 10
don t your spices have ascorbic acid in the mix?

you are lucky if they don t contain avoids! )

another way to do it, is dehydrating all of your beneficial spices, you want to add to your yogurt and grind them into powder yourself.
Posted by: san j, Monday, September 26, 2005, 9:46pm; Reply: 11
I will check the ingredients later today and get back to y'all soon.

Of course I also make a variety of raitas on my own.  I just thought I'd suggest this to those of you who may not have the time or be handy in the kitchen.

Last night I converted one of my refrigerated raita-type concoctions into a salad dressing by adding olive oil and a sheep/goat cheese to it.  It was heavenly.

More to follow...
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Monday, September 26, 2005, 11:16pm; Reply: 12
Okay, my contribution to this thread is this:  For about 10 years I drank skim milk and used low-fat products.  I didn't like it but thought it was good for me.  Lately, I have been thinking about what I ate and drank as a young girl and I was always slim and I had whole, unhomogenized milk and ate the fat on meat, just didn't eat a lot.  Well, fat fills you up, that's what!  Now, I've gone back to whole, unhomogenized milk, whole milk yogurt, eating some fat on meat and it makes me feel fulfilled.  I've changed to soup for lunch along with whole milk yogurt and raw egg in my morning cocktail and I'm actually losing weight.  I feel much happier, now.  ;D ;D ;D
Posted by: san j, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 8:45pm; Reply: 13
B's! It's True! Spread the word!
Posted by: san j, Sunday, October 2, 2005, 12:50am; Reply: 14
Hello, friends.
Something is going right, and it's in the area of my diet.

I have been eating whole dairy: Milk, cream, cott. chs., mascarpone, sour cream, etc. etc. plus plenty of cheese, including paneer, and enjoying it immensely.

I checked my weight on Labor Day to see if, among other things, this way of living would affect my weight.

Well, here it is, October 1st, and I weighed myself this morning to find I weigh exactly TEN POUNDS less than I did on Labor Day (Sept. 5th).  And the food is better than ever.  

Enjoy it, B's.  And who knows?  Whole, as opposed to fractionated, dairy may indeed be the way to go for the other types too, vis-a-vis what little dairy they do eat.

ADDITIONAL NOTE FOR lola:  There are no avoids in the yogurt spices you asked about.  There is also no citric acid in it.  
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, October 2, 2005, 12:55am; Reply: 15
thanks! )
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, October 2, 2005, 1:31am; Reply: 16
I definitely, absolutely consider dairy to be my comfort food, and the dairy fat is part of what makes it work.  I am minimizing cows' milk because it seems to give me gas.  However, I eat full-fat sheep's Feta, full-fat Goat's milk Chevrie, full-fat Goat milk yogurt, plus I happily consume Ghee everyday.

When I used only low-fat dairy products....fat-free yogurt and 2% milk, I wore a size 12.  I am now a small size 8, with some clothes being size 6.

Full-fat dairy takes care of my other cravings.  I don't miss sugar, wheat or coffee.  But if I don't eat at least a little dairy everyday, I feel an emptiness....not just in my tummy, but also an emotional gap that needs filling.  It's an important part of my wellness program.
Posted by: san j, Sunday, October 2, 2005, 9:27pm; Reply: 17
OK The Yogurt Spices are put out by a company called "Neera's", out of Prescott, Arizone.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Monday, October 3, 2005, 7:43am; Reply: 18
Full fat milk vs low fat milk
I was wondering if it was some kind of politically correctness that made Doc Dadamo reccomend low fat dairy in his books- I only got erfybaby here; page 175  low fat dairy....?!- but in all books it says low fat!

I hate low fat yoghurt- I rather go without it. I think we eat rather less dairy than a lot of  "normal people" so it is not a problem to do the full fat version. However i prefer 1,5 % milk when I drink milk maybe because it is jersey? - but in coffee  3 % milk  is nice I havn´t had it since I was a kidf :-D.
Posted by: san j, Monday, October 3, 2005, 9:04pm; Reply: 19
My Whole Foods Market only has Kefir which is low fat.  So I'll finish this my last bottle, and switch to fullfat yogurt for my blender drinks.
Posted by: san j, Thursday, October 6, 2005, 8:35pm; Reply: 20
I'm kind of angry about all the anti-milk stuff out there (yawn), but even moreso about the "low-fat" emphasis, now that the non-fractionated dairy thing is turning out to be so amazingly beneficial for my health, as well as for that of some of you, judging from the good results you're also having.

Yes, Dr. D. is also squarely in the Low-Fat dairy camp.  What can I say?  
Posted by: san j, Thursday, October 6, 2005, 8:37pm; Reply: 21
Oh, also:  If you can't find Paneer, if you don't have an Indian grocery, I've found that certain hard ricottas (i.e., not the stuff you scoop out of a container) have that "grillable" characteristic, for much much less money than the Greek Halloumi which has the same.
Posted by: hitch (Guest), Friday, October 7, 2005, 1:07am; Reply: 22
I have a few questions, I have read and I personally feel that milk cannot be natural for humans to drink, why else would our production of lactase enzymes decline as we age? But i also find that i lose weight if i consume dairy and as a B i wonder if dairy is somehow different for only us? I get heartburn if i drink milk or yogurt because of the lactose, but cheese i do alright with, what should I do. I have gluten intollerance and have been tested for casein intollerance (by enterolab) and it came back that I do have an intollerance for casein, so I can't decide whether to give up dairy for good, any ideas?
Posted by: Kristin, Friday, October 7, 2005, 1:19am; Reply: 23
What forms of dairy have you tried?

If only cow's milk products, perhaps experimenting with goat and sheep's milk dairy.

Your secretor status plays a role in how much and what types of dairy work best for you too.

And.... welcome aboard, hitch! There's several B threads floating around and of course lots of great info on other threads too.


Posted by: hitch (Guest), Friday, October 7, 2005, 1:26am; Reply: 24
Here is my situation, I am a secretor, but I've had very bad digestive issues for the last few years. As I said i was tested by enterolab and came back with scores of 25 anitbodies for casein and gluten where anything above 1o shows an intollerance. I can't decide if cow's dairy is good for humans, but I can tell i feel different and maybe better the day after eating some, but I don't digest milk and lactose well but do better with cheese. I have the main gene for celiac, so I believe i must have it, even though my intestine looked fine during endoscopy and my blood test came back negative. So I'm undecided on what to do about dairy, if you read and some other place you will think dairy isn't good for humans. I've tried a little goat cheese, I probably do better with it, but I still don't know, is it wise to eat dairy if it shows i have an intollerance for it?
Posted by: Lola, Friday, October 7, 2005, 1:54am; Reply: 25
find milk without casein.....and whatever else you are intolerant to.
Posted by: Victoria, Friday, October 7, 2005, 3:08am; Reply: 26
Aim for the most beneficial of all the dairy products that are ok for your blood type.

I have gradually stopped eating any cow's milk products, instead, I use goat milk yogurt, goat milk chevrie cheese and sheeps milk feta.  Those digest very well.  Otherwise, with cows milk, I don't process that as well.

And yes, we B's do have a different relationship with dairy.  That's the key to the BTD:  One size does not fit all!
Posted by: san j, Sunday, October 23, 2005, 11:26pm; Reply: 27
Hitch:  Here's the B/dairy thread most recent.  I think you were saying the same thing HERE a couple of weeks ago, so let's see if some techie-type can do some Abracadabra and bring your current comments into this thread....
Posted by: san j, Sunday, October 23, 2005, 11:33pm; Reply: 28
Hitch:  Obviously, I've always been B.  But I haven't always reveled in dairy to the extent I recently have begun to do.

Think of it:  When I was living in Switzerland, friends there made fun of my "California" way of eating, quite light on the dairy, rejecting the surfeit of cheeses-constant-cheeses, creams, etc., in favor of quite-low-fat-foodstuffs, etc.

So I know what it is to be a B who rejects (a whole lot of) dairy.

I've also done really strict macrobiotics, way back when, so for a couple of YEARS I never ate ONE dairy product!!

And yet... I feel great on this bit-o-dairy (full-fat) every day thing. Just great.  If you can do a gradual intro/desensitization program (Dr. D. describes this for, say, Asian and African B's) (take a look in LR4YT).

I could really kick myself for becoming such a Dairy Lover NOW, so many years, not to mention kilometres, from that fantastic font of local ("artisan") cheeses...
O Suisse, ma Suisse...
Posted by: san j, Friday, November 4, 2005, 6:23pm; Reply: 29
There's another thread starting up on B and Dairy, even on the specifics of Whole vs. Fractionated (fat removed) dairy products, so it'd be good to keep the subject going on a pre-existing thread, if any of you Techies are in the neighborhood.

I'd like to put in my 2 cents --- ok, my buck and a half --- here.

For the past couple of months, I've been wallowing in "full fat" dairy and feeling fantastic -- physically, that is. (Actually, I think I've been coping pretty well with the other stuff too, another story).

Last week I had a cold.  It was the BEST cold I ever had!  I really felt all the strengthening my body had gone through before it, and even through it.  It's really true what we "natural health" and "holistic" types have always claimed:  The strength of the organism determines its response to the pathogens.  I processed this cold magnificently.  I even ate whole dairy products WHILE I had the cold, and it passed more easily than ever:  No descent into the lower respiratory tract.

I don't have the time to go into the details here, but if anyone's interested in details, say so on this thread, and the next time I'm here, I'll continue it.  Suffice it to say that I'm really marvelling at the magnificence of the physiology....
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Saturday, November 5, 2005, 12:30pm; Reply: 30
Interesting Exj-j -good to see you around-
your co-lover of full fat dairy;-)
Posted by: san j, Sunday, November 6, 2005, 1:47am; Reply: 31
Hi Henriettebsec! Thanks for the note.  

Wow.  We're really onto something, aren't we?

I mean, you really know whether or not you've made a mistake when you have a cold.  You really know if your underlying health is there, undergirding you, or not. And I have to say that if the Full-Fat Dairy I've been enjoying for 2 months hadn't been good for me, this would have been one WHOPPER of a cold. Not only was it easy, but, as I said above, I enjoyed full-fat dairy WHILE I had the cold, and, still, it passed, accompanied by those extraordinary feelings of strength and impressions of the amazingness of the homeostatic miracle of the human body.

If you ever get a bad cut or wound, and then marvel at the site visibly repairing itself, and, if you use nature itself to facilitate that, as I do aromamedicine/aromatherapy, you know that miracle and that wonder to which I'm referring.

So, to witness that, through a cold, while eating a piece of cheese...that's pretty dang cool.
Posted by: ISA-MANUELA (Guest), Sunday, November 6, 2005, 9:52pm; Reply: 32
hey...hey..hey... what did I dechippered... ::) woo-hooo swicherlandli... so ...sooooo you lived in Swicherlandli... where? hey ce'mon tell us more... how beautiful the land is and how awsome meschugge-bekloppt- blöd-einfältig ::) crazy-lazy-silly the peoples are here :D ;D  do you remember *chuchichantschderli * ??) yup... Switzera is the most american
non-european country I saw ::) :D
Posted by: san j, Sunday, November 6, 2005, 10:20pm; Reply: 33
Ben, cherele, tu sais tres bien que j'ai passe pas mal de temps en Suisse romande.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Monday, November 7, 2005, 7:06am; Reply: 34
Yep Exj-j I think you are on to something...
Last year I had a pretty bad flue... doc told me to avoid dairy,, and I thought well maybe he is right -
maybe EVEN in a B it makes more mucus ...Offcourse I couldn´t avoid it- actually I was craving the stuff and it made absolutely no change in mucus/ but Mentally I felt satisfied -not stressed !
and I was fine after a few days.
Posted by: san j, Monday, November 7, 2005, 11:18pm; Reply: 35
Y'know, Henriette.  This is a serious finding.  
Dr. D. is right there at the forefront of Individual(ized) Health.  He's in a position to take a deeper look at this NEED of B's for dairy, and of full-fat dairy, rather than at B's as "able to tolerate" dairy, as a minor part of our diets.  The "Dairy-leads-inevitably-to-mucus" connection is not holding up as a Universal.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 3:07pm; Reply: 36
Posted by: san j, Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 5:00am; Reply: 37
Stay tuned, friends!

I'm now in communication with the chemist of the dairy supplying my beloved full fat cream.  I'm particularly interested in why organic creams must be "ultrapasteurized" and have additives gum(s)/chemical(s)! and then they taste lousy.

I'll pass answers along to y'all.  And while I've got her on the line, perhaps I can forward your questions to her as well.  Only if they're NICE questions, gang: Nothing anti-dairy, etc.  You get the idea.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 7:12am; Reply: 38
I think it is only in America that the organic creams are not that natural.
My cream is organic from a small ( not so small anymore) organic dairy called Thiese. They use milk from different cows different; some call them cow-raciest... Jerseymilk (largest part)  is used for yoghurt, butter and cream. black and white frisian cows milk is mixed with jersey to make drinking milk- but they do carry a awsome 100% jersey 3,5% milk  yum. REAL organic milk is not homogenized here it is not allowed. It is not legal to sell milk that is not pasterized here- but I don´t think it is ultra p...... ?Tell your chemist at the dairy that it is not allowed to add weird chemicals and gums to organic cream here in Europe.....At least not last time I checked.

When I was pregnant 12 years ago we had a heatwave the last 2 months of my preganancy- We went to the local farmer ( not organic but freerange- able to go outdoor when they want to)  with jersey cows and picked up some really cheap milk with all the fats... I tell you we made the most fantastic icecream with our own eggs, honey , raspberries and this cream and milk... I almost lived on it couldn´t really feel tempted to eat anything else when you are huge , wearing a bikini and it is 28-32 c  all the time! mayme thats why my daughter was such a healthy and big baby when she was born.! :-D

BTW I made a really lovely B-envy pie this weekend - i´ll post it later. it contained ricotta, marcarpone - dark chocolate and cranberries....

What is the rating for cream and marcapone ???
Posted by: Don, Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 3:25pm; Reply: 39
You might find this article interesting:

An Organic Cash Cow
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 4:25pm; Reply: 40
Thank you Don- VERY interesting read for a non Us citizen!
I think you have a LOT to learn from us here in Denmark / EU

In Denmark more than 25 % of all milk sold is organic!

1 litre of organic milk cost around 1 dollar - sometimes a bit more it depends on how fatty!
Regular milk  same quality??? cost about 90 cent -you can get cheaper milk but then it is not very fresh.
i litre is about 2 us pints.

All organic cows here has to be out on grassfields all summer.
In wintertime they should be allowed to exercise each day.
Opposite regular cows they have the right of soft "beds "= hay,
The calf should be allowed to feed/ suck their mums
No gmo or "poison" in their feed.
Very strict laws about medication as well.
From this year all 100% of their feed has to be grown organic!-it used to be 80 %

About how we treat milk at the dairy!.
Well from the description above - I realized that we don`t ULTRA pasterize milk here!.
I prefer untreated milk but as mention in my other post it is difficult to get!

Consumers need to put pressure on the autorities to get a more natural organic milk in US
- NOW I understand the campaign for REAL MILK !
B`S unite and get the dairies and shops to get you healthy milk from happy and healthy cows.
Just realized I am SO lucky to be a B in a such a organic dairy country .

BTW the next organic bestsellers here are:

carrots 14 % of all sold
oats 27 %
eggs 18 %
fresh pasta 15 %
potatoes 4 %
wheat flour 10 %
Ryebread 7%
sounds like we are full of B´s here in Denmark ( except for pasta, bread and flour) however only 11 % of pop is B´s  ;-)
Posted by: san j, Saturday, November 12, 2005, 8:11pm; Reply: 41
OK, folks, the dairy chemist got back to me.  Here it is:

The 2 organic creams at Whole Foods are "ultrapasteurized"/extra-heated...for shipment all over the country.  This gives them added shelf life in the store. Cream sells more slowly than other dairy products.

The addition of extra heat causes a loss in the "whipping" properties of the cream, therefore carageenan is added.

Also, heat raises the acidity, which causes part of the milk to settle (as in cheesemaking).  Sodium citrate would be added to keep all parts in suspension.

Because the NON-organic cream is marketed only LOCALLY, it needs no extra pasteurization or chemical additives.  Therefore it tastes fantastic.

Of course, if organic cream is, likewise, marketed only locally, it too would taste great.

This is all paraphrased from my new friend, the Dairy Chemist.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, November 12, 2005, 8:13pm; Reply: 42
great update, thanks!)
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Saturday, November 12, 2005, 11:08pm; Reply: 43
Thanks, exj_j.  Never thought of it that way, not being a chemist myself. :K) 8)
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 1:41am; Reply: 44
This is a great reason for us all to attempt to find local sources of the foods that we eat, whenever possible.  It's wonderful to support small businesses, and eat fresh food.
Posted by: san j, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 4:24am; Reply: 45
Yeah, but, Victoria...everyone's a little surprised that CloverStornetta, no "little guy", the Big Dairy Co. of the San Francisco Bay area, turns out to be selling the great tasting, no-additive, real McCoy, while the "smaller" "Organic" companies are heating and doctoring the stuff for shipment all over the country. This is anything BUT a "Let's support our small businesses" scenario.
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 6:04am; Reply: 46
I'd like to find a genuine "small business" when it comes to dairy.  That means an organic dairy that only sells locally.  
I have found a couple of cow dairies that do that, but the only organic goat dairy has all the customers that their goats can provide for.  They have a waiting list.

It would be nice at least, if your CloverStornetta sells milk that does not contain the bovine growth hormones.  Do you know if this is the case?
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 3:37pm; Reply: 47
OH exj.j - now even I get it !!- so it is because of the long distance in US - so me living in a small country is lucky right ;-)
Posted by: Poly, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 4:40pm; Reply: 48
In many respects we are the lucky ones, Henriette! ;) ;D

And I'm green with envy reading about you milk-consumption. A few years ago I taught Biology at an agricultural college - mid-morning coffee with smørrebrød, hot lunch and afternoon coffee with cake - everything home made from the college's farm's own products, of course - was included in my salary. Boy did I gain weight...! ::) :B ;D

...Aaaanyway - the milk there was fresh from the cow - only skimmed to take most cream off the top, and then cooled. It was not full fat, but - erm - what's Letmælk in English, Henriette? WOW!!! BEST.MILK.I.HAVE.EVER.TASTED!!! :o :P :D And the whipped cream?!? *swoon*

(You know what? If I ever got offered a glass of milk like that again, I would accept it in an instance not blinking an eye! O or not...! :B 8) ;D)
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 4:45pm; Reply: 49
Yeah - My Emma is green with envy as well. - good to B !

EXj j check this out :
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, November 13, 2005, 5:24pm; Reply: 50
Poly, I know what you mean about that fresh milk.  There is NOTHING like it!  I was raised in a small town in Kentucky, and my grandmother, who lived next door to us, kept a little Jersey cow named Pet.  Pet supplied our three households with delicious, rich, creamy, fresh milk.  I loved milk, and my B mother and B grandmother did lots of great things with it.  My Grandmom made fresh butter with a wooden hand churn. UMMMMMMMMM.
The cow died when I was around 6 years old, and I saw the first bottle of store-bought milk in the refrigerator.  When I tasted it, I nearly threw up.  It was so un-natural tasting to my young, unpolluted self.  I had to force it down, and was riddled with bronchitis and swollen tonsils throughout my school years.

Henriette, that is quite an article on untra-pasteurization.  Thanks for supplying it.  Everyone who uses milk should read it.
Posted by: san j, Monday, November 14, 2005, 12:43am; Reply: 51
Great link, Henriette: Don't have time to read the whole thing right now, but will make it a point to do so soon. Wow.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Monday, November 14, 2005, 7:22am; Reply: 52
Victoria lovely story - If I lived on a farm I am sure I would keep a jersey cow they are so cute and the milk is YUMMI :-D

ABOUT the Weston..... webpage I don´t agree with everything on the page.. "You know a 1 size diet fit all".
BUT their thoughts on REAL MILK- good fats:  natural like butter, ghee and olive oil and nutrition dence food like good quality of eggs, butter, fish, meat etc is great for a B and in some extent a O.
Reading about weird veggie oils made sense as well- realised they are worse than I thought!
Posted by: sarahjuliet (Guest), Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 10:35am; Reply: 53
I love love love (etc) rich and creamy dairy...I eat loads of yoghurt and can't go without milk.  The low fat stuff is offensive to my tastebuds, and I just love cheese so much!

But! I'm a non-secretor! And I'm trying to lose weight. I've read that hard cheeses are a no-no (both for weight-loss and for non-secs) and I should stick to low fat dairy.

I would love it if you all told me that I should definitely eat lovely full fat dairy, but I need the honest truth:

For a non-secreting weight-loss-desiring B, what should I do?

I'm on a v hi protein, v low carb diet with only some low fat dairy eg.cottage cheese, yoghurt & milk.  I've been on the btd for 7 yrs but only this low carb thing recently...Not massively overweight (according to my BMI, I'm normal) but I feel uncomfortable...

Any advice?
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 2:22pm; Reply: 54
May a non-dairy O giver her 2 cents worth?  I agree with the fat issue.  I find that as long as the fat is natural, pure, compliant, I can eats tons of it.  I really mainline the olive oil since I can't have dairy & I crave the creamy consistency. Before menopause, I used to eat lots of butter-YUM!! [Somehow I don't crave it so much, so you young ladies out there--enjoy the butter.  You may lose that craving when you body is ready!!]  As I have shared before, last year from Oct. thru this April, I lost 10# without even trying by adding Swiss ball exercises to my regimen.      I probably was getting more compliant, too.  So at age 57! when 'they' say your metabolism slows down (as you age generally), I lost weight!!  It still amazes me.  All you BTDers out there--keep it up!! It works!!!!! I don't miss the dairy that much (I was avoiding it for years, anyway).  It simplifies my life.  There are so many recipes out there & no time to dabble in trying new things.  This way I don't have to worry about not getting around to it.  Because my food choices are limited, altho sometimes it is frustrating, it really is liberating--fewer things to choose from, etc!!! when shopping & the rare restaurant visit (altho wheat, soy, & who knows what else is hidden in everything it seems!).
Cheerio, my B friends!  Even some of you are sensitive to dairy.  So the 'sacred cow' is for less than 10% of our population.  When I see that 3 a day ad, I wish I could tell them how many URIs they are causing & how bad it is for 90% of the population.
Sea Salt & Light,
Mrs "T" O+
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 6:04pm; Reply: 55
Of course, we can't tell you what is the best thing for your body, BUT I can tell you what is working for me.  I carried around about 25 extra pounds for several decades.....ever since the birth of my last child.  Pre-BTD, I ate high carb, low-fat dairy, and basically vegetarian diet.  I've been on the BTD for about 8 years, but it wasn't until I found out I was a non-secretor, that I really began to see the changes.  I QUICKLY dropped that weight, and I was not calorie counting.  I've been eating as a non-s. for three years and the weight has stayed off.  I am 100% avoids, and more than 1/2 my food is beneficial.  My shortcoming is that I don't completely honor the frequency recommendations.

Here's an example of how I eat everyday:

1 C full-fat goat's milk yogurt in my blender drink, along with a bunch of other great stuff.  I'll send you the ingred. list if you want.
3 or 4 c Genmaicha green tea 2 Big Mugs

2 C steamed green and/or root beneficial veggies
1/3 pound lamb stir-fried in 1 tsp. ghee
1 oz. sheep's Feta cheese
3 or 4 fresh figs or 1/2 papaya (or other benef. fresh fruit)

baked sweet potato or winter squash
1 Tb. Chevrie (soft goats cheese)
1/4 lb. salmon, cod or halibut
a lightly toasted rice cake with almond/walnut butter and 1/2 a date

dandelion root tea

As you can see, I eat plenty of dairy fat.  I also add in cod liver oil as well.  But I don't eat cow dairy except for the ghee.  I also don't eat hard cheeses.  The only grain is a brown rice cake.  I do get plenty of carbs with root veggies though.

Hope this helps in some way.  I love dairy!

Posted by: ion, Wednesday, November 16, 2005, 3:15pm; Reply: 56
I have found this at the super market.
I know what it is in my languish but i have no idea what is the English name.
Also everything is written in German or I think, is German.
I try to write few of the things written on the box, for some English translation, trying to avoid the brand name so Tas-dad not to think I am advertising something.
It is a box like yogurt container.
At the top is written:    SPEISEQUARK
                                 Bayerischer Topfen

On the side:                     250g (ok that i understood)
                   Speisequark, Halbfettstufe
                   Bei +8 C mindestens haltbar bis:
                             siehe Deckel
                          Quark, formaggio fresco (To me this sounds like Italian. I think formaggio stands for cheese, but this is not cheese.)  
                Ingredienti: Latte magro,panna, caglio,fermenti
                        (L. acidophilus, B.bifidus)

There are a lot more things written there but I think these are the most important.
Dear dairy experts and German(?) speaking ones, what do you think?
I must say is delicious.
Any ideas for the best use of it?

Thanks a lot

Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, November 16, 2005, 5:17pm; Reply: 57
quark is similar to fresh cheese.........
it is like a heavy cream, but more yogurt tasting.....

Austrians make a lot of fine bakery with filling sometimes!!
very good!!

use as you would cream.
Posted by: Alek, Thursday, November 17, 2005, 1:40pm; Reply: 58

Hey Ion, i know what you are talking about. It is like sour cream and is great to put at the end of stewing meats, or on the fresh steamed veggies. I also put it on the toasted rice cakes. in the absents of the Italian BTD'ers here is what it contains;
latte magra - low fat milk
panna - cream
caglo -curd
fermenti - ferment, yeast.
I love it, it is so creamy. se filo Alek
Posted by: ion, Thursday, November 17, 2005, 1:56pm; Reply: 59
Both you have right.
It is heavy cream and makes you think at first that is very sweet as well, but no.
it is not.
Yes can be something like yogurt but the consistency is more like concentrated mousse.
The first time i got it i used it mixing some honey with it. Very sweet but yammi!!
Alek your suggestion on stewing meat may be great.
Thanks a lot.

I am open for more suggestions
As is a dairy product must be excellent for B's
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Thursday, November 17, 2005, 3:17pm; Reply: 60
The germans ( and danes) use it alot- making awsome cakes with it- either fresh mixed with sweetener on fruittarts ( instead of creamfraise)or baked mixed with eggs, flavor, sweetener etc in a pie-shell.A bit like italiean ricottacakes
It can have different fat contenst from 5 % to o,5 %.
At some stage( pre BTD) I used the lowfat  as a saladdressing mixed with buttermilk and herbs- but really it was bit too healthy too me

Here is what I found in a english dictionary:

quark2 (kwôrk, kwärk)
A soft creamy acid-cured cheese of central Europe made from whole milk.

[German, from Middle High German quarc, from Lower Sorbian twarog, from Old Church Slavonic tvarog?.]

Posted by: Ellie, Saturday, November 19, 2005, 12:24am; Reply: 61
This is going back a bit but have only just caught up with this thread. This is an interesting link about organic milk in the UK - Britain.

This is the Organic Milk Suppliers Co-Operative.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Sunday, November 20, 2005, 9:24am; Reply: 62
Btw it is in type base - just neutral but for all types except O sec and O non
Posted by: ion, Sunday, November 20, 2005, 10:09am; Reply: 63
Quoted from Henriette_Bsec
The germans ( and danes) use it alot- making awsome cakes with it- either fresh mixed with sweetener on fruittarts ( instead of creamfraise)or baked mixed with eggs, flavor, sweetener etc in a pie-shell.A bit like italiean ricottacakes
It can have different fat contenst from 5 % to o,5 %.
At some stage( pre BTD) I used the lowfat  as a saladdressing mixed with buttermilk and herbs- but really it was bit too healthy too me

Here is what I found in a english dictionary:

quark2 (kwôrk, kwärk)
A soft creamy acid-cured cheese of central Europe made from whole milk.

[German, from Middle High German quarc, from Lower Sorbian twarog, from Old Church Slavonic tvarog?.]

Henriette thanks  for the information.
As a salad dressing with buttermilk and fresh herbs is very appealing to me for summer salads.
Also as creamfraise must be excellent.
Franklin speaking I am pleased to discover it and I'll be even happier to find ways to introduce it into my diet. Of course with moderation.
The ones I find (2 kinds) are 4,4% fat and 0,2%.
Posted by: san j, Thursday, December 8, 2005, 9:18pm; Reply: 64
Hi folks!

Recently the "B and Individuality II" Thread has addressed full-fat dairy again; I responded to "rapidler" last week with the name of a book I found very interesting, recently.

The author is Will Clower, PhD.  The title is The Fat Fallacy. Great reading on the "faux-ness" of fat-removed dairy products, as well as the whole "fat-free is best for everyone" results for the American masses.  Enjoyable reading.

I just came across another title, though I haven't seen the actual book: It's by Uffe Ravnskov and is called The Cholesterol Myths: Exposing the Fallacy that Cholesterol and Saturated Fat Cause Heart Disease. (I would personally like to see added to the title: and Weight Gain.

Anyway, hope these open some doors for those of you who are starting to think outside the very American box on this matter, especially you fellow-B's and half-B's, for whom dairy is such an important food.
Posted by: Ellie, Thursday, December 8, 2005, 11:08pm; Reply: 65
I have recently found some new cheeses  :)which I am trying made from ewe's milk and goat's milk. I definitely find these easier on the digestion - I have never tolerated cow's cheddar well or other such hard cheeses but the goatee(!) cheddar seems ok. Taste is fine too.

Only thing I'm not too sure about still is how much I can tolerate overall but at least it's nice to find different things. BTW these are organic and full fat cheeses, bought from an organic farm (although the cheeses are not made there, they "do" their own organic meat and some vegetables. Cheeses are both Welsh and English made). It is about an hour away from where I live at the moment... we dropped in on our journey to the hospital for the first time and went back last Sunday for a craft fair. (taking my B friend here too - 3B ladies in one car he he)

Isn't it good to find different things to try out? And I'm sure you'll be proud of me exj_j for my full fat dairy eating!  :D
Posted by: san j, Friday, December 9, 2005, 3:32pm; Reply: 66
Lucky you, finding the organic dairy farm, Ellie.
Come to think of it, there are a couple of Welsh cheeses at Whole Foods Market lately. Let me know the names of any cheeses you're sampling.
Posted by: Ellie, Saturday, December 10, 2005, 12:12am; Reply: 67
It's actually an organic meat farm.

One of the new cheeses I have tried is "Wensleydale" from ewe's milk, which I quite liked. Not too strong. Made In Wensleydale (north of England). There was a goats cheese Brie but not too keen on Brie so left that one on the shelf!

You've got Welsh cheeses over there? Wow. Which ones, I wonder? We do get everywhere you know!  Caerphilly is quite a well known one but am just finding out there's a whole load of different cheeses - but these are generally found in the more specialist shops, not the supermarkets.
Posted by: san j, Sunday, December 11, 2005, 11:00pm; Reply: 68
We definitely get the Caerphilly.  I'll get back to you on others.

Wow! Last night I served Swiss fondue.  It was fantastic.  Really beams me over to Switzerland, pronto.

Talk about full-fat dairy!!

Always drink wine, or at least fruit juice, with your fondue, and follow up with fruit. Don't say I'm not warning you.

Additional Note: Obviously, a fondue evening cannot include a cheeseboard with your digestif... Last night there were chocolate and nuts with the Port. The walnuts were not "black", but they were fantastic. I buy them in halves from Whole Foods' bulk section, and they're very fresh, so the store must be doing a bang-up business in bulk walnuts.  I'm so glad.

Another dairy note: Picked up lovely scones (small size) and a jar of Devon clotted. Forgot to serve this morning!!! OH NO!  This is a VERY heavenly treat, my friends. I'll enjoy them during the week.  If you haven't tried the Devon Clotted Cream and Double Cream, you're REALLY missing something extraordinary.
Posted by: Ellie, Monday, December 12, 2005, 1:04am; Reply: 69
Scones and clotted cream - they should be served in a tea shop with waitresses with frilly aprons and a pot of tea obviously. ... I like a toasted tea cake myself... And it's not the same now I can't drink "normal" black tea.... To make sure I can get a drink if I'm out I carry a small bag with my own selection of teas - nowhere has refused me hot water yet....

On eating dairy when out - sadly the most common cheese used over here seems to be Cheddar, which makes me bloated (always has)...still, if you're a fully fledged full fat dairy eating tolerating person - no problem!

Finished off my ewe's cheese Wensleydale today - wanted to have some fruit with it but our plums are going a bit funny so didn't - just sprinkled some olive oil and rosemary over it...the cheese was quite mild tasting which suits me. So I'll be off on the goats cheese again now.

And also dairy wise added some cream to my tuna and (rice) pasta mixture, just to add a bit of moisture, which reminds me..

Question: Does anyone else have a problem with combining meat and dairy? Cos I think I may do.
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, December 12, 2005, 1:18am; Reply: 70
I don't, as long as it's goat and sheep dairy.  I have problems with cow dairy, no matter WHAT I eat with it.

I think cheddar is an avoid for our blood type, even if we eat full fat dairy.  ??  (haven't checked, but that's what I think.)
Posted by: san j, Monday, December 12, 2005, 3:26pm; Reply: 71
Cheddar is cool.  I like it. It's "neutral".  The "avoids" for Tier 2, which I amn't, are American and Blue, if I'm not mistaken.  

As for Wensleydale, isn't that Wallace's/Grommit's favorite?
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, December 12, 2005, 5:37pm; Reply: 72
Wallace and Grommit!!!!  I just discovered them!!!!   What would they do without cheese and crackers.

exj_j......I guess it is just the B nons that can't have cheddar!!  :-)
Posted by: Ellie, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 1:00am; Reply: 73
Yes, I think Wensleydale is in Wallace and Gromit :), I'm looking forward to seeing the latest film. , I keep forgetting to watch it but we have a programme on here called Creature Comforts made by the same people which is fantastic - they have real people speaking but put them into the bodies of animals - they are so funny to watch! They always have these little touches of things that are just so clever.

I believe there's another cheese with an improbable name in W & G which does exist  (stinky cheese or something  ??)) and the producer couldn't keep up with the increased demand.

Started my new -prize winning no less!- goats cheese today, Swaledale or something like that, originating from Yorkshire in the North of England.  :)
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 1:41am; Reply: 74
:-)  :-)  :-)

Only a B can treat cheeses the same way as a wine lover speaks of fine wines, the vintage, the aroma, the Bouquet!  Ahhhhh, goat cheese!!!     Ahhhh Feta!

Posted by: Kristin, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 4:00am; Reply: 75
When I was in Santa Fe recently, I went to a Farmer's Market that had fresh goat's cheese... the freshest I ever tasted... flavored with garlic and loads of fresh dill. It was soooo good!

But... the goat's milk fudge... unbelievable!!!! And just made with goat's milk, Baker's chocolate, sugar and vanilla!!

:D :D :D
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 4:18am; Reply: 76
Spoken like a true B, Kristen!!

Posted by: hitch (Guest), Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 5:42am; Reply: 77
I have lost my copy of ER4YT and can't remember why cow's milk is good for B's besides the fact that the sugar is the same as B's? I want to believe dairy can be good, but I don't see how B's thousands of years ago would be able to get dairy from wild cows when the B blood type was just beginning. I've taken a lot in interest in The Paleo Diet, which is basically the O type diet, no grains, legumes, or dairy. But I realize B's are a little bit different when it comes to dairy, can anyone give me any links or info for why dairy is good for B's, and is it only raw milk that is good?
Posted by: san j, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 3:11pm; Reply: 78

Why not "hitch" this post to an adjacent thread: "B and Whole Milk/Dairy"? This is a common concern of B's and AB's.

Don't have time right now to address your question, but will get back to you.  As for "wild cows", think about goats and sheep and camels.

Catch you later!
Posted by: Schluggell, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 6:52pm; Reply: 79
Us B's have an interesting history-I think dairy as good for us as more than just cows. But that is what gets the research in modern times.

I remember reading somewhere that the last wild cow was killed in Poland around 1635.
Look at how the mongols survived with mares milk-and they are a high percentage of B.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 10:10pm; Reply: 80
I think cow's milk is probably the least ideal of all the milks, unfortunately it's the one that is the most readily available in our culture.
Goat and sheep milk is much more digestable, and probably milked by ancient B's!
Posted by: san j, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 10:54pm; Reply: 81
OOO Kristen: Make us all jealous!! Now it's MY turn:

Here in San Francisco there's a Frenchman who opened a few patisseries... Try to IMAGINE, with your B imaginations, his CHEVRE/Nectarine tarte!!!
Posted by: Ellie, Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 11:02pm; Reply: 82
Kristin, does the fudge not taste "goaty"???

Exj_j, the french certainly know how to make good cakes/tarts. It's making my mouth water.I bet the nectarine goes really well with "chevre". Is the nectarine on top of the "chevre" - it can't  be actual cheese, or can it in the tarte? (I live in the land of Welsh cakes and Bara Brith (fruit loaf) so please excuse ignorance)
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 1:20am; Reply: 83
Chevrie is a very soft, spreadable cheese, so it would make a great base for a tart filling.
Posted by: Kristin, Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 1:23am; Reply: 84
Hi Ellie  :)

No... the fudge did not taste"goaty" at all. Nor did the cheese have that strong goat tang.

Both were really something... I think the freshness made the difference.
Posted by: san j, Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 3:41pm; Reply: 85
The french chevre/nectarine tarte:  Light crust, then the chevre (think cheesecake), then the magnificently concentric (or) spiraling paper thin nectarine slices and their glaze.

Une vraie merveille.
Posted by: Ellie, Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 8:42pm; Reply: 86
Hi Kristin :)

I remember Victoria was it? talking about the fresher the goats milk etc then the milder the taste. ..How fab to find something so tasty! Have you got yourself a year's supply?! ;D

Exj-j  ;)

that does sound like what I was imagining,  :PI'm sure I have had similar things when "en France". Mind you, had some really nice cakes for breakfast on my first visit to Germany - just ate what I was given!

For me eating and finding these cheeses is a real novelty. I was "diagnosed" with lactose intolerance about 10 years ago, so for years drank mainly soya milk. :o But I did find i seemed ok with some cheeses - generally the softer ones - and couldn't understand why, but didn't eat a lot.  I did see a dietician for a while and I got really cross because she was trying to force me back onto milk again, which I couldn't take at that time. Touch wood, I may be able to have more than I ever thought I could, and adds a bit more variety to the menu. Thanks for your enthusiasm exj_j, it has helped me to think more about the role of dairy in my life  :K)(sound like I'm at the Oscars now! ;D)
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, December 15, 2005, 1:24am; Reply: 87
Generally, the softer and younger cheeses are better for B's because the microbes in the older, aged, harder cheeses can cause difficulties for us.  Hence, what a joy to find great young cheeses!
Posted by: san j, Tuesday, January 3, 2006, 2:03am; Reply: 88
Since I started doing the Full-Fat Dairy 4 months ago, I've allowed it to take over more of the meat role than at the beginning.  I'm definitely eating less meat and fish than before, and it feels great, actually.  I think it's truer to the Nomad/Steppe-shepherd Way anyway. Meat is still a major player, but, I don't know, it seems I'm buying a whole lot less of it. And I include fish under "meat". I'm not even CLOSE to vegetarian.  But I'm getting awfully good at concocting yummy things with cream and cheese ... not a huge yogurt fan, but it's in there.

Just thought I'd revive this important thread...
Posted by: Ellie, Tuesday, January 3, 2006, 10:31pm; Reply: 89
Glad you're still enjoying the cheeses exj-j- are you still dropping weight?

I've run out of my special cheeses so have to see whether I can pick up anything here in the town, but it won't be the same (sad face).....

I did enjoy my ewe's milk cheeses...
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Wednesday, January 4, 2006, 4:10pm; Reply: 90
Quoted from Victoria
I think cow's milk is probably the least ideal of all the milks, unfortunately it's the one that is the most readily available in our culture.
Goat and sheep milk is much more digestable, and probably milked by ancient B's!

I think you are right!
It is just easier to get good quality cows milk here :-(
I have never been a fan of goats cheese or milk but this chistmas my sis made some very nice soft goat cheese in olive oil with lemon peel and rosemary !
They were just soooooooo goood vey lemonly ( I don´t think you can sy this but :-) )
Been with out telephone almost a month- fine but with out www  SAD !
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