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BTD Forums  /  Supp Right For Your Type  /  NAP Products Safe for Celiacs? and SCD
Posted by: 903 (Guest), Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 7:25pm
I am not in great shape at the moment, and yes, that's an understatement. Some of you have been helping me through your comments to other threads I started, thanks very much. I am a celiac with a leaky gut and developing allergies and intolerances to foods at an alarming rate. I assume I have an intestinal dysbiosis with an overgrowth of harmful bacteria and candida. These are not my only health problems and symptoms but everything results from this problem with my gut (which as I look back, must have been detrimental all of my life thus far).

I need to follow the BTD to the letter and investigate everything I ingest. I recently noticed that PolyFloraO contains brewer's yeast. I stopped using it last week since the brewer's yeast was no doubt grown on grains. I spoke to a representative at NAP today to get an answer to my question, "What is the source of the brewer's yeast in polyfloraO? Was is grown in a lab on artificial medium or on grain? If on grain, how was it separated from the grain?" There was a lot of back and forth while he put me on hold to go ask others my various questions and concerns. At the end, after about ten minutes, the rep could only say that they get the yeast from an outside source and don't know how it is grown or processed. He then went on to assure me it was safe for me because it is not a live culture... completely missing the point. I explained again and then asked specifically, "Is it known to be safe for celiacs?" He assured me it was safe for everyone since wasn't a live culture. I didn't bother asking any of the other questions, like "what's the veggie cap made of?" Anyone know?

Since I need to keep my stress levels down, I thanked him for his efforts and hung up. I will not be taking anymore polyfloraO and now I am unsure about the remaining type O products I use. As I said, I have lots of food intolerances now and supplements have always caused nausea regardless of taking then on a full stomach.

Anyone know where I can get technical, scientific answers about these products? I did submit questions through a link on the home page (don't recall where though -- have to go hunting for it again) but got no response.

I don't know what to do. I no doubt have malabsorption and could benefit from supplementation but not if the supplements have ingredients I am now intolerant to. I am eating really good whole foods right now but will it be enough? Obviously, I want and need as speedy a recovery as possible.

Now to switch gears. Anyone out there incorporate the principles of the specific carbohydrate diet into the BTD to control candida?


Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 7:49pm; Reply: 1
Quoted from JK
I am a celiac...I recently noticed that PolyFloraO contains brewer's yeast. I stopped using it last week since the brewer's yeast was no doubt grown on grains.

Nutritional and Brewer's yeast are very similar animals.  Nutritional yeast is not grown on grains whatsoever but on beets (usually, sometimes on other media but not grains).  Brewer's yeast is grown on hops.  I was not sure whether hops is considered a grain, but I just looked it up and, apparently it is not, it is rather a flower, coming from "...a vine related to the nettle plant".*   However, even IF hops is a grain (and I don't think it is, but just say it is because with celiac we have to err on the side of caution), just like if you bought beef which had been raised on grain, the beef itself is not going to hurt you as a celiac.  Neither Nutritional yeast or brewer's yeast are grains themselves.  They are a fantastic food for O's, very high in the full spectrum of B vitamins, living nutrients, proteins, etc.  (As far as candida, btw, they are a totally different type of yeast and might even serve to fight the candida.)  There is a recent ("sticky") thread on nutritional yeast which I believe is in the "Eat Right for Your Type" section/forum, if you want more info. on nutritional and brewer's yeast.  However, to answer your specific concern regarding if it is grown on grains or not and how that would affect you as a celiac:  brewer's yeast is grown on hops, which is a flower.  Even if that flower is part of a plant in the grain family (and apparently it is NOT), the brewer's yeast itself is NOT a grain.

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 7:53pm; Reply: 2
Quoted from JK
I assume I have an intestinal dysbiosis with an overgrowth of harmful bacteria and candida.

By the way, eating nutritional yeast (or brewer's yeast, but nutritional tastes better..although I like the taste of both) would be excellent for you!!!  It is a probiotic and will put beneficial flora into you and fight the harmful stuff like candida.

Also, I forgot to say WELCOME and I am excited for you, as I can tell from your post that the BTD is really going to help you!  Please stick around the board, ask questions, share your progress and pitfalls, and benefit from all the support, info. and caring that is here!  Welcome again!

Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 7:56pm; Reply: 3
Yes, if it's grown on hops, it would be fine.  I'll see what I can find out as this concerns me as well.

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 8:01pm; Reply: 4
Melissa, I just edited my post, check it out.  Apparently, hops is definitely NOT a grain at all.  It is a flower from a vine related to the nettle plant.  Again, though, even if it were a grain, the yeast that grows on the hops is NOT a grain and probably contains no gluten.
Posted by: Missy, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 8:29pm; Reply: 5
JK, Edna, and Melissa,

My mother has a list of forbidden foods via a database that hosts. I will check this out to see if brewer's yeast is on it. I got thinking when reading this that we celiacs are not allowed beer and hops is one of the main ingredients, is it not?

Hold up on the Polyflora until I can get more information. I'm concerned myself now.

JK - thanks for bringing this up.
Posted by: debs, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 8:43pm; Reply: 6
jk dont forget to do the candida spit test which could explain your allergies & leaky gut etc :K)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 8:54pm; Reply: 7
Yes, I agree about holding off on the polyflora until we know.  Hops are ok, but barley isn' the question is where did the brewers yeast in question come from...
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 8:57pm; Reply: 8

Here's an example of a GF brewer's yeast.  I'm optimistic that the stuff in polyflora is also, but I'm not popping any in my mouth just yet...
Posted by: Missy, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 9:09pm; Reply: 9
Quoted from Melissa_J

Here's an example of a GF brewer's yeast.  I'm optimistic that the stuff in polyflora is also, but I'm not popping any in my mouth just yet...


Hopefully we will find out that the Polyflora has this type of brewer's yeast. Keep us posted. You be the gal!!!
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 9:17pm; Reply: 10
look up the candida thread on this forum.....
there s a lot of info there.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 9:55pm; Reply: 11
I'm finding lots of brewer's yeast supplements that are labelled gluten-free, so I'm not worried about it (though still awaiting confirmation that this is also before I take any more) NAP does a good job about using high-quality pure stuff, but I may not have a definitive answer for a few days.

The brewer's yeast used as a food ingredient however, is usually a byproduct of beer production, and thus would contain gluten from the barley.  Sad how so many food ingredients are just byproducts of something else, I learned about this the hard way when my corn allergy was at it's worst.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 10:07pm; Reply: 12
don t you guys think NAP would have a warning label for all the celiacs out there??

I believe it s safe.......)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 10:18pm; Reply: 13
Yes, while searching I noticed Heidi recommending polyflora to celiacs on many occasions, and I've never been told otherwise.  Of course, celiacs have learned by experience that we have to ask and verify everything.  :)

Of course, I'd rather take something from a high-quality high-purity producer like NAP that hasn't yet provided a definitive gluten answer/label, than eat something from McDonald's gluten free know what I mean?
Posted by: Don, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 10:37pm; Reply: 14
I really question if the Saccharomyces boulardii in PolyFlora O comes from brewers yeast, even though that is what the package says.

I found this on the Internet:
"Saccharomyces boulardii is registered in Europe under the name Saccharomyces cerevisiae, though the manufacturer states that S. boulardii is not the same as brewer’s yeast (S. cerevisiae)."
Posted by: Alia Vo, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 12:02am; Reply: 15
Equally important to finding the source of where the nutritional yeast is grown (I have read that nutritional yeast can also be grown from wood pulp); some brands of are blended with a wide range of artificial flavors.

This is especially important if one buys their nutritional yeast from the refrigerated bulk foods section of their HFS, as I usually do.  Please consult with the consultations at your store(s) to confirm the source of their nutritonal yeast.

Posted by: 903 (Guest), Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 12:13am; Reply: 16
Wow. Thanks for the responses. Melissa_J, I am hoping you can make better progress than I with the folks at NAP. I'm sure I was just speaking to a sales rep and obviously, someone with a more technically oriented background would probably be more helpful. I'll cross my fingers and wait for your findings, thank you very much for pursuing this.

I have been using the NAP products for years but can only take about a quarter of the recommended dosages and still have stomach upset within 15 minutes or so of taking them -- certainly not every time but quite frequently. When I saw the brewer's yeast I thought, "aha!", but since omitting it the past week I still get nauseous from the others. Now I am thinking I am taking too many pills at once, or maybe I shouldn't be taking something at the same time as something else. How do all of you take your supps?

Debs, the spit test is pretty gross... nothing floats. If it is an accurate test then I am loaded with Candida.

Lola, thanks, I did have a look at that thread, very informative.

Missy, thanks, but it all depends on what substrate it is grown on. I just finished reading "The Gluten Free Bible" by Jax Peters Lowell and her writings are what alerted me to this question about brewers yeast -- seems early on she kept glutening herself with it. I know, celiacs have come up with a new verb! LOL

Leaping Greenly, hops are OK for celiacs (but we don't know that the yeast in question was grown on it). Thanks for the welcome!

BTW, how do I get a celiac avatar (so cute)? MOOooooo, I can't tolerate dairy either but I am hoping I will be able to in the future!


Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 1:42am; Reply: 17
It's a Yak (Silly-Yak) , so maybe you could tolerate Yak's milk :) though I probably can't!  (Cow, Goat, Water Buffalo, Sheep, it's all the same to me)   I just swiped it from and doctored it up in photoshop.

It would be nice if the NAP supplements had that little thing on the label that some supps do..."Free of: corn, wheat, nuts, gluten...etc." just to ease our celiac minds.  I believe the v-caps are gluten-free, however.

You may tolerate the supps better if you dump them out and mix them with a smoothy or something.  Sometimes just the air contained inside them makes me burp a little...depending on how many I take.  Some will taste better than others this way, I don't recommend it with deflect...eeew!  Sometimes when I have a sore throat I'll mix deflect with a strong herbal tea to try to overpower the flavor, then gargle it and drink it, thus I know it definitely tastes like icky medicine.  My son never complains about his soymilk spiked with a little polyflora A.  I generally try to take the vitamins and calcium a few minutes before a meal, but I don't have too much trouble with nausea to combat.  Then I take polyflora and live cell O before bed with lots of water...that may not work with nausea involved.  Of course, I'm holding off for now on the polyflora...most nights I forget to take it anyway.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 12:34pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from MLH
JK, Edna, and Melissa,

My mother has a list of forbidden foods via a database that hosts. I will check this out to see if brewer's yeast is on it. I got thinking when reading this that we celiacs are not allowed beer and hops is one of the main ingredients, is it not?

Hold up on the Polyflora until I can get more information. I'm concerned myself now.

JK - thanks for bringing this up.

Haven't read all the new posts in this thread since last I lighted here (yesterday), but wanted to respond to this one right off the bat.  Beer would be forbidden to celiacs due to the barley malt (barley is a gluten-containing grain), not the hops.  Again, I'm pretty sure that hops is not a grain at all, but I also understand how "pretty sure" is not good enough for a celiac!  "100% sure" is the only sure that matters.  So, I shouldn't have been so definite about nutri. yeast being okay yesterday.  It was the end of the day and I was rushing before I had to go off line.  Usually, if I'm not 100% positive about something, I will make that really clear, as I live in fear of steering someone wrong on the net!!!!!!  But I truly don't think hops is a grain and, like I said, nutritional yeast only feeds on the hops, it is not itself hops, no matter what hops is.  Did that make any sense?  It's early in the morning *lol*...
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 12:41pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from Melissa_J
It's a Yak (Silly-Yak)...

omg, I never got that before!  That is hilar!  Tee hee!

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 12:55pm; Reply: 20
Okay, whoa.  I checked out and I see where they have "brewer's yeast" (NOT nutritional yeast, which is NOT a byproduct of the beer brewing process and is "primary grown" for human consumption, usually on beets...the brand I consume [KAL] states "gluten free", I belive, right on the label) listed as "forbidden".  Of course, based on that, I would say proceed with extreme caution until we as an amorphous blob-o-BTDers really research into this thing more, HOWEVER--and I could be totally wack here, wouldn't be the first time--I truly think that perhaps is misinformed about the nature of brewer's yeast, because they are hearing the word "yeast" and thinking it is somehow related to candida or somehow glutenous due to the barley used in beer (but just because barley has gluten, does something that EATS barley have it?).  I just have a hard time conceiving of brewer's yeast containing gluten...then again, I have a hard time conceiving that my sister could be a Type B, but per her, she is, so thar ya go.

Bottom line:  Apparently, I, for one, do NOT know what I am talking about, so please anyone with celiac reading this thread, proceed with caution.  I'm gonna edit a previous thread of mine wherein I said that brewer's yeast does not contain gluten and that you have the "leaping greenly seal of definiteness on that one".  The ONE time I dole out that precious seal, it turns out I could be wrong.  I personally don't think I am and I think has a wrong thing in their forbidden foods list, but then again, that could be a wackness factor on my part, as I LOVE brewer's and nutritional yeast (the later of which I am SURE is okay), and there is a halfway decent chance that I myself have celiac disease...although we will never know as I refuse to eat wheat for six weeks or whatever it is to find out.  Even if they can do a blood test this minute on me without six weeks of wheat ingestion, I don't eat wheat, so my blood won't show a reaction to gluten.  I don't eat anything with gluten anymore, it just sorta evolved that way.  Used to do 100% rye in my earlier BTDing years, but gave that one up.  Now I barely do grains and the one I do if I do any is RICE.  Gotta love rice.

Anyway...this whole brewer's yeast thing is WEIRD and I will get to the bottom of it.  Gotta do a little work right now, but then I'm ON it!
Posted by: resting, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 2:40pm; Reply: 21
Hi leaping greanly and others esp. O-nonnies,

perhaps we are missing-the-proverbial-boat-here because your reaction to vitamin C because it was made with a corn base, and now brewer's yeast ... I said whoa!  Do we have to start again ... like with cows being fed grains ... and we react.  Does this mean that we react to the grains or that we react to the now-altered fats in these cows?

A friend sent me this .... much to ponder here .......

Posted by: TheViking, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 4:25pm; Reply: 22
First of all, sorry for getting a bit off topic here, but I just need to ask this before I forget again..

Quoted Text
Q. How do we detoxify our bodies?

DPC. Aajonus Vonderplanitz, who I believe is the world’s leading nutritional expert, suggests that we eat diets very high in raw fat, raw meat and raw protein, some raw fruit, and raw vegetable juices. Aajonus has proved that cooking anything creates volatile toxins (poisons) that enter our bodies, thus building up toxins and heavy metals over years. Cooked and processed food, combined with heavy metals and exposure to the industrial electrical beast in which we all live, has created most of modern man’s degenerative diseases. Over time, raw fat predominantly gradually cleanses glands, muscles and all tissue of toxins as well as lubricates and protects the body. Raw protein rebuilds our muscles, glandular, lymphatic and neurological systems. In part II of my paper, Aajonus has been kind enough to answer most questions about his work,

Ehm.. Eat raw meats? I don't think I've eaten raw meat for a very long time.. I thought that was dangerous because you could get various diseases from the meat unless it's cooked or fried enough or something?

Only protein I get raw, I think, will be from eggs (when I used to take it after working out) and nuts.. not sure how protein blends count in here?

So does this mean I should start eating my meath raw? No preparation? ..I read something similar somewhere else the other day, bu couldn't get my head around it so to speak..

Really looking forward to a reply on this as all advice is highly appreciated from you John :D

Okei, nighty time..

Thanks :D
Posted by: resting, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 5:33pm; Reply: 23
Hi Viking,

there are lots and lots of problems with forecasting... even doing so with the weather is filled with difficulties that were not dreamed off even a decade ago.  In contrast, the functioning of even one human being for a single day is likely more complex than the weather systems worldwide for the past 1000 years.

We all have this niave notion that any diet system will save us.  This diet-theory about eating raw foods - especially meats poses all kinds of problems for us in our modern world.  If our blood is not as 'pure' as we believe it to be, then animal blood is filled with similar problems.  Will our eating 'raw' only protect us from these infections?  Wild animals eat only raw; are we not wild too?

The article poses questions/attitudes far different than those we are accustomed to.  I am no where near this, but I do know that I am not content ... so maybe.

This article (nor BTD) ever poses the question about what our physical beings do .... does it process energy the way we think .... let's look at light and break it down into photons (small packets of energy).  The pi electron-clouds of essential fatty acids carry this energy form ... why?  to where? does it trigger other processes?  Now we can do the same thing to sound, to magneism,to electricity, to Chi, to generating energies [Have you ever wondered how can older people(in their 20's or 30's) generate 'new' life?  It's as tricky even on a simpler philosophical level.], on and on .... then there it energy transmission within our bodies that require no pi clouds at all ... the piezzo effect; 'deep' sounds that come through-our-bones (not ears but bones) ...
Just as bodybuilders increase muscle size, can we train our brains to expand our brain-capacities?

'fraid there are many more questions than answers

Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 5:35pm; Reply: 24
Dr. D. doesn't recommend eating raw meat...  due to disease risks.  In the past these risks may not have been so high.

I've never reacted to grain-fed meat or known of anyone who has (and if I havent reacted to it nobody would! LOL).  The larger the grain-eating organism is, the better it breaks down the grain, particularly animals like cows that are designed to efficiently and completely digest it.  Single celled organisms have to basically swim in the culture media, so it would be like eating a whole cow that had been rolling around in wheat, without even being able to wash it off before eating it ...  Howz about that analogy?  

I've heard back from NAP, and they'll get back to me once they look into it further.
Posted by: Missy, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 6:17pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Melissa_J

I've heard back from NAP, and they'll get back to me once they look into it further.

Thanks  for taking care of this.
Posted by: Maria Giovanna, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 8:43pm; Reply: 26
Dear friends and John,
I wonder if the article quoted explains why I can digest little portions (LR4yt ones) of raw or rare cooked beef and eggs and not at all well done beef and too fried eggs. I had also an hypoacid stomac but this is my experience  since i was child.
I just find difficult to adapt in the A BTD a great amount of raw protein. As I am at my minimum normal weight. I fear I will become underweight. I can think to implement sushi and raw fish but I avoid beef for Cholesterol as per A diet and hate raw chicken and turkey. I ate once a slightly smoked raw turkey and it was not bad, but I cannot find it anyhere now.
I like a lot Yoghurt. kefir, miso and tamari and this could be this is living raw food as salads and raw veggies.
As a nearly clean addict I knew it was invain, now perhaps it is socially dangerous !
Thank you for your ideas and food for thought.

Maria Giovanna
Posted by: Elizabeth, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 8:59pm; Reply: 27
As a hypoacid O, I have found that I need hydrochloric acid (and, when I get into trouble) digestive enzymes.  I have tried to get away from this, but it seems to be important.  Poorly digested food in the gut leads to many bad things.  It is not so bad to take a few capsules with my meal, I just feel I "should" be able to overcome it.  Shoulds are often not a good idea.  Good luck.
Posted by: resting, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 9:01pm; Reply: 28
Hey Melissa,

maybe before accepting the 'verdict', we should do a little re-think of the way we process meat.  Like can't raw meat/fish be marinated in garlic oil, or a carriere oil like olive oil with clove, thyme and many other essential oils to kill all pathogens including parasites ... then eat it raw or dry it using extra-dry air blown over the meat or fish.  Do you know if celiac disease (and accompanying allergies) is a permanent degenerative condition or is it amenable to such a 'raw' diet, or do you not want to be bothered finding out.  To me, saying Dr D says 'no' is a poor way out!

Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 9:39pm; Reply: 29
Honestly, you're right that I don't want to bother finding out.

Not to say that I've never eaten raw protein, if it looks appetizing and I know the sources are good I'll try it.  In many instances though, I don't think its worth the risk for me.  I digest protein quite well, and the inside of my steaks is often raw  or nearly so (I think that has even been recommended per BTD).  Looking into every aspect of how my raw meat is prepared is not something I usually have time or energy for, after investigating every other aspect of my food.

Here's a bit of personal opinion, while it may be good in general to eat raw protein, the rare case of food poisioning you could end up with would be a major setback for a celiac or otherwise underweight person.  That is why I cannot fully endorse it for myself or others.  
Posted by: 903 (Guest), Thursday, August 25, 2005, 12:55am; Reply: 30
I too like my steaks on the rare side but not raw! The only "raw' meat I eat is jerky, and I make my own (because I can't find store bought jerky without wheay/soy and mine is soooo much better!).

Thanks again, Melissa_J!

Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, August 25, 2005, 1:37am; Reply: 31
Yes, raw jerky is also very good, on Food Network they showed how to make it using a big fan and (clean) furnace filters.  I think there are easier ways, but they claimed it was the best flavor.
Posted by: Missy, Saturday, August 27, 2005, 12:45am; Reply: 32

Have you heard anything back on this topic yet? I was curious as to the final verdict.

Posted by: Melissa_J, Saturday, August 27, 2005, 12:56am; Reply: 33
Not yet...but I think we'll get an accurate response once we get one :)

I always distrust the waiter that quickly says, "No, there's no gluten in any of our noodles"  ;)
Posted by: Missy, Saturday, August 27, 2005, 1:06am; Reply: 34
Quoted from Melissa_J
Not yet...but I think we'll get an accurate response once we get one :)

I always distrust the waiter that quickly says, "No, there's no gluten in any of our noodles"  ;)

Agree, agree! Thanks for the quick response.  :K)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 7:01pm; Reply: 35
Quoted Text

-----Original Message-----

Hi Melissa
Thank you for your patience.  However, after speaking with our technical
advisor, we can say that our products are gluten, corn and dairy free.
We are not able to comment on brewer's yeast, wheat grass and barley
grass if they are gluten free because we are not the source of these
products and can not decipher them.  

If we can be of any further assistance please let us know.
4 Your Health
NAP Customer Service

-----Original Message-----

Thank you for your response.  

Does this mean that Polyflora O and Harmonia are gluten free?


Yes it does.

I think what they were saying at first is that they can't say all brewer's yeast and barley grass are gluten free, as general ingredients, but in the case of their products, they are.
Posted by: Missy, Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 7:53pm; Reply: 36

Thank you for getting back to us. I think for a bit I'm going to hold off anyway until I get my gut straigtened out from my last eposode. Then I will slowly add things back and see what the results are.

Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 8:03pm; Reply: 37
Sounds good, we celiacs can be a very reactive bunch...

I once had wheat grass juice on an empty stomach, I watched them cut it and juice it so I'm pretty sure it had no grain hulls in it, but they gave me more than usual, and since it was free (bonus :P) I drank it.  I can tell you I didn't want to look at another green thing for many days after that.
Posted by: 903 (Guest), Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 10:54pm; Reply: 38
Melissa, I am still confused. When I spoke to someone at NAP, they said they got their brewer's yeast from a distributor. If that is the case, then the response you got indicates to me that NAP doesn't add gluten (obviously they wouldn't!) but they do add brewer's yeast from an outside source, and so NAP can't be sure it is GF.

I thank you so much for your effort here  :K)  but I don't think they answered your questions well or fully!  :-/  

I have had no nausea problems since dropping the PolyFloraO... even if I take a lot of the supps at once. Just finished a fist-full. Maybe with my leaky gut I am ultrahypersensitive! For me, I will forgo the PolyFloraO. I have been using RenewLife FloraMore and it sits well with me. Seven strains of microflora with fructooligosaccharides, l-glutamine and NAG.


BTW, I LOVE the other NAP products I am using! These are the only multi vitamins/minerals I have ever been able to take without stomach upset. I also like the Deflect, LiveCell and Quercetin. (Had to stop using the protein mix because of a new sensitivity to eggs butmaybe I'll be able to use it once I have healed). I am looking forward to trying more products and just placed an order including the above and licorice and B12....  :K)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 11:08pm; Reply: 39
I'm glad you're feeling better.  Stick with what works!

The answer was a bit confusing, but I'm pretty confident about it now, as most supplemental brewers yeast I can find is also gluten free.  I've had similar responses from some food manufacturers, just because they don't want to be liable for any mistakes their suppliers may make, even though they have no reason to think there could be gluten in the ingredient.  I found the statement that all NAP products are free of gluten, corn and dairy to be what I was looking for, but unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm not super-sensitive to trace amounts of gluten, so I just do my best :)
Posted by: 903 (Guest), Thursday, September 1, 2005, 2:16am; Reply: 40
Well Melissa, before I further malign  :X NAP (everyone, if you haven't read my edit above!! I love NAP products  :)), I really should test the PolyFlora again. Maybe I will in a few days. I'll let you all know if I do. I have been feeling better and definately want to see if it is a new trend  :o

When I posted, I was wondering if any one else had had such an experience and had pin pointed it to the PolyfloraO, but I haven't heard anyone else chime in!

Posted by: Melissa_J, Saturday, September 3, 2005, 7:48am; Reply: 41

I got to thinking that maybe you have a yeast intolerance?  I don't know too much about it, but I remember that enterolabs offered a test for it.  Just thought I'd mention the possibility.

Posted by: Vicki, Saturday, September 3, 2005, 12:19pm; Reply: 42
Yes, some people actually have a yeast allergy!  Not common at all, but before you go that route, I used to feel sick when taking the probiotic.  I had to take it with food at first, and then gradually moved to being able to take it on an empty stomach.  My fauna and flora was really messed up!
Posted by: TheViking, Saturday, September 3, 2005, 2:02pm; Reply: 43
Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
...maybe before accepting the 'verdict', we should do a little re-think of the way we process meat.  Like can't raw meat/fish be marinated in garlic oil, or a carriere oil like olive oil with clove, thyme and many other essential oils to kill all pathogens including parasites ... then eat it raw or dry it using extra-dry air blown over the meat or fish.  Do you know if celiac disease (and accompanying allergies) is a permanent degenerative condition or is it amenable to such a 'raw' diet, or do you not want to be bothered finding out.  To me, saying Dr D says 'no' is a poor way out!

Well I wouldn't mind being bothered to find out - or, that's finding out if it can help with my problem which the doctors think is crohn's but aren't sure..

So if you decide to try this out and figure out how we can treat the meat prior to eating it so that we kill the parasites etc as mentioned above, then I'm very interested in joining you on that journey - in the name of science ;) ..and of course self exploration :D
Posted by: Laura P, Saturday, September 3, 2005, 2:47pm; Reply: 44
I agree Melissa, I do not react to meat or poultry that has been fed grains or soy, however I do react to eggs of chickens that have been fed higher levels of soy
Posted by: 903 (Guest), Saturday, September 3, 2005, 6:13pm; Reply: 45
Melissa, no, I hadn't considered that I might be intolerant to yeast now too. Just about everything else is a problem right now, so maybe it is the yeast and not any contaminating gluten. I had the same bad reaction whether taking it on a full or empty stomach, Vicki, but thanks for the suggestion. I have had correspondence from another forum member who has a similar problem with polyflora and harmonia, so it is good to know the problem is not just with me (and therefore I probably did identify it correctly.)

I continue to feel better every day on this elimination diet, so it is a trend!  :o Finally I think I have a handle on ALL the health problems that have plagued me all my life, and finally I seem to have the "cure" in hand.
Posted by: resting, Saturday, September 3, 2005, 6:39pm; Reply: 46
Hi folks,

Like Glenn(the Viking) some may be in a position (at times forced) to try 'new things'.  Part of this attemp should come from tried practice ... although now manipulated for other purposes.  So I will try to provide some theoretical background and build towards a practical solution from there.

many of the varied 'ailments' in this thread are on a sort-of-continuum ....many are very encompassing and have much intestinal pain; many have a perponderance of leaky gut - it is not mentioned here, but IMO environmental allergies fit right in here.

Cells stick-together/agluttinate for more reasons than when a lectin binds them - BTD theory.  For instance all cells have a negative charge on their outer surface.  If this charge is stripped off the cell surface, it will bind with another cell (likely in similar circumstances).  This charge is formed by the action of million of molecules of two types of zwitterions (sounds like 'twitter-eye-ons).  One of this 'type' is membrane-bound taurine ... it binds zinc .... and, the other 'type' is the choline end on the lecithin molecule.

The more this charged is stipped off cells' = the more 'sticky' cells will get = the sicker you wll feel = the more compomised your immune systems = celiac disease, increasing number of allegens, distressed digestion, Crohn's disease, arthritis ... etc.  [Diets like the 'Zone' emphasize taking exclusively omega-3 oils EPA and DHA, blaming the stckiness on PgE2 from AA.  Every cell membrane though has all three EPA + DHA + AA.  Accenting one natural nutrient over another, just as natural nutrient, is a poor strategy long term.]  There are some ways to get the charge back! a) injest low doses of both zinc and taurine b) eat daily some lecithin c) replenish daily with some helpful intestinal supplements. d) the B vitamin niacin has helped this charge; e) under the influence of N-pole magnetic energy, strings of cells disperse ... I think, it is influencing this natural cell-charge.

a) zinc - @30mg + 3mg copper and taurine @200mg (maybe less) about the tip of 1 teaspoon
b) lecithin - 1Tsp daily ... easily taken with other oils/fats
c) [see below]
d) niacin ... great as part of vitamin B complex
e) N-pole magnets as above ... will ease severe stomach pain in 5 minutes!

- probiotics - there has been at least one other BTD'er like JK [who has had a very difficult time with the NAP Polyflora formula]  
   options - try judi's suggestion: "RenewLife FloraMore and it sits well with me. Seven strains of
                 microflora with fructooligosaccharides, l-glutamine and NAG. "
              - SBO's - Primal Defence or
- Use FOS and/or ARA6 - to help good bacteria proliferate ... strains produce butyric acid (cell
         energy) and caprylic acid to destroy any fungi.
- mineral - magnesium -
- fat - ghee - mostly butyric acid
- amino acid -  L-glutamine
- seasonal 'greens'

EXPERIMENT - I am hoping to find a method that will not lead me to ever more diet restrictions ... usually carbs first ,,, ie. no fruit ...
Digestive enzymes should be of great assistance until a state of normalcy occurs.  Rather than another pill ... unheated honey may assist here.  It not only supplies the enzymes, but many simple sugars as well.  I hope to take advantage of this special honey's enzymes by blending it with some ghee  ... some hemp hearts and some salad.  Since food enzymes are destroyed  in cooking.  Much raw produce (that is difficut to eat raw) may be digested easily if it is combined with the honey.

Eating raw meats should only be done on inspected organic, grass-fed meats ... whether tar-tar or jerky.  Sushi may be one way to eat raw fish.  A condiment of horseradish + lemon juice may help.
I would have difficulty affording either.

Posted by: TheViking, Sunday, September 25, 2005, 4:05pm; Reply: 47

Hmm, somehow I managed to miss this last post for a while..

I've been taking zinc, copper, l-glutamine and taurine once a day away from food - although I totally forget some times because I haven't made a rutine out of it yet..

My current dosage is this though (because of capsule sizes..):
2 mg copper
50 mg zinc
1000 mg L-glutamine
< 1/4 teaspoon taurine
Think this is alright? or should i maybe cut my zinc tablets in half or maybe double the copper?

I'm curious if you have figured out anything more about the raw meat part?
I did fall across some information about a "Spartan health regime" where they also talked about eating raw meat. I would really like to try this if it is suppose to be better for us, but I'm not sure how to prepare it to make sure there's nothing dangerous with it like disease or worms etc..

Still on the lookout for that really raw honey. Do you think it will be okei during candida-dieting?

Thanks :D
Posted by: resting, Sunday, September 25, 2005, 11:52pm; Reply: 48
Hi Glenn .... sorry, it's been one of those days,

re. the copper, zinc, taurine - probably 1/2 the zinc to a max of 25mg ... unless under specific instructions for a higher amount.

re. the Really Raw Honey ... that's the name of an American product ... can be googled.  Because you are in Australia, what you are seeking is called unheated honey.  The word 'raw' in this case often means that the honey is processed at a too high temperature.  Henriette Bsec is a good resource and knows a lot about honey.

The raw meat can be either sushchi(sp?) for raw fish Japanese-style, or tartar - French cuisine for steak ... or homemade jerky (made without high temperatures)  there are many essential oils that could be used in the marinate oil - clove and wild oregano are two.  I do not know much about this but many ancient cultures ate raw organ meats or eyeballs and testes. Muscle meats were fed to their dogs.

For quite some time, it has been known that any heating destroys enzymes.  Many protein structures are also changed by cooking.  Maybe (because we know so much more about EFA's) we'll find that cooking alters many fats considerably.  Do such alterations accumulate and slowly make us ill?  For instance, the making of homemade ghee meant the boiling of the oil in butter;  however, zola (on this board) takes many hours and low temperatures to make her ghee.  Is her method a drastic improvement?  We'll see.  

Posted by: TheViking, Monday, September 26, 2005, 4:29am; Reply: 49
Hallois John

Thanks for a superb answer, as always :)

And no reason to apologise at all. Replying in a day on a month old thread is great. I posted in the evening and woke up to an answer in the morning ;)

Zinc tablets will be broken in two from now on..

Creating home made jerky and those experiments probably have to wait till December when I'm back home in norway with access to a kitchen with real appliances (and a helpfull mother ;) )..

If there are health benefits to eating the meat raw it would be an extremely good improvement for me since I'm eating so much meat now - even more than the LR4YT recommendations, but that's because I'm on the candida diet and in lack of alternatives..

For raw fish. I can't go out and eat sushi, cause then they've probably poisoned it with wheat and the like, but if I buy som tuna or salmon fillet at the grocery shop, is there some way I need to prepare that to make sure there's nothing dangerous with it, or can I just squeeze on some lemon juice and spice and dig in ?

About the unheated honey. Do you think those sugars will be okei with the candida diet, or should I wait with honey till the candida war is over?

And looking forward to december with seeking  out those hemp hearts..


Posted by: resting, Monday, September 26, 2005, 1:52pm; Reply: 50
Hi Glenn,

There is a small worm found in salmon that most people cannot detect.  Only an expert sushi chef can notice the subtle difference.  If eaten, this worm can make a gut much worse, so I would have some problems with raw fish.  On the other hand, Australian aborigonies may have some eating of raw meat?????????

The proper kind of honey alters the structure of some sugars and would make it a growth medium for candida.  The unheated honey acts as a protectant for us .... as it does for bees.  In this way I assume it is anti-candida.

However, because you are going home=changing seasons ... you may not get as much punch from your strategies as you would like. ... colostrum >> Spring ... early honey + SBO's >> summer ... clover honey + herbs >> Autumn .... late honey + FOS +ARA6 >> winter .... late honey? ketosis + SBO's ...

re. honey - contact Henriette Bsec also on this board ... she's from Norway too!
re. SBO's are soil-based-organisms ... because probiotics are the same size as candida ... they do the best job ... (from a medical professor) http://www.thewolfe clinic./flora.html
re. the FOS ... are fructoliggosaccharides (no wonder they call this FOS) they seem to feed the good acidophilus ... and they in turn get rid of the candida ... in the intestinal tract.  The ARA6t does a similar job to the microbes in the colon.  They also do a number on candida.

So while traveling SBO's may make things a bit more even for you ... honey (like most supplements) tend not to be taken during transitions,  so the SBO's will cover you there + they are great anti-candida anytime!

Posted by: TheViking, Monday, September 26, 2005, 4:05pm; Reply: 51
Thanks john :)

I've still got some time before heading north again though, about 2 months..

hmm.. not sure if i understood the SBO stuff or not.. SBOs are better than probiotics because they're smaller than the candida, right? (it's not that probiotics is a sort of SBOs?)

And I've been wondering about how the season theory a bit, since i'll be leaving here when summer sets in and from that to winter in norway.. :/
Posted by: resting, Monday, September 26, 2005, 6:42pm; Reply: 52
Hi Glenn,

SBO's are probiotics.  A rouge guage about how many species of bacteria make-up an adult person's flora is @400.  These are by no means an equally-divided 400.  So NAP'S is better than most with 5.  SBO's are a range/collection of unusual flora bacteria that are highly anti-candida.  They also do a number of jobs in healing the wall of the gut that has been very helpful to some.

Sorry, I think Henriette lives in Denmark, not Norway!  If you'd like to give the honey a try ... some comb-honey should be at a hfs in Australia ... maybe you can get some late-honey sent to your home in Norway by Henriette ... so it'll be waiting for you when you arrive ...
The honey I'm taking, continues to heal my gut ... almost finished ... seems more than half done with the fistulation too .... also seems to have reduced my sciatic neuropathy about 90% .... am really pleased and hope this continues.

Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 3:10am; Reply: 53

You've had a fistulation problem as well?

Okei, that's it, i'm out looking for that honey ;)

If it can help fix my fistulation and maybe even stop some of that bleeding it would be wonderful..

How much do you take of that honey and how do you take it? Did you say you just place it under yout tongue for absorbtion or something?

Thanks again, now I'm really geared to get a hold of that honey.

*Out hunting*
Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 6:53am; Reply: 54

I'm back from my shopping.

Not sure if I got the right sort of honey or not. It doesn't actually say "unheated" on it anywhere, but I couldn't that anywhere :/

What I ended up with is Manuka Honey - Active UMF 20+
"Comvita UMF 20+ Active Manuka Honey is guaranteed to be at least UMF 20+ and has been verified by an independent tesing laboratory to have exceptional levels of antibacterial activity.

Only some Manuka honeys from New Zealand have the special UMF activity, which has now gained a worldwide reputation for its value in the maintenance of digestive health."

Think I've got the right thing here or will it specifically say unheated on it?
Posted by: Vicki, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 9:48am; Reply: 55
Regarding raw fish used for sushi, here in the US, nearly all fish used for sushi in restaurants was frozen before use.  Consumer Reports did testing.  They got sushi from several restaurants, and brought it back to the lab.  Some samples showed parasites but they were all dead due to the freezing.  So, to be safe from parasites, ask the restaurant if they freeze the fish first.
Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 10:42am; Reply: 56

I read on another forum some posts from a person following the spartan health regime, he claimed to be eating raw meat and said that he usually just froze the meat before taking it out and letting it reach roomteperature before eating it raw.. So do you think freezing it will work for both fish and meat? And do the fish and meat keep its nutritious values etc when frozen?
Posted by: resting, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 11:57am; Reply: 57
Hi Glenn,

Give Manuka a shot to see if it helps ... your hfs may not have the honey you want yet because it is still very early in spring there.  A local bee keeper might be able to help you out least tell you when the new comb-honey is available locally.

re. The freezing - great idea ... all microbes are killed by our freezing weather in our winter.  My brother (then in Peru) said there was an amoeba in the soil & local-food of Peru, that infected many Canadians ... very similar to a virus.  This wasn't in Canadian soil/food because our winter had killed all these organisms.  The polyamine issue only comes about if the process is flash-freezing, normal freezing will not create polyamines.

Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 12:23pm; Reply: 58
So you reckon this trick will make it possible for us to safely eat raw meat?

How much and how often do you take the honey?
On my manuka honey it says to take 1-2 teaspoon 30 min before meals..
Posted by: resting, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 1:17pm; Reply: 59
Hi Glenn,

It sure seems like a very good possibility.  Even organ meats may be good for this ... they can be extremely hard to make into jerky.  ... maybe run this by one of your biochemistry lab profs first ... he/she may have additional insights????

re. the honey ... sounds good!  Additionally try a very little on the fistulation.  It only needs a very short time to work ... @5min.  ... very sticky ... just remove with a damp cloth.  {this is also supposed to work on hair ... but have not tried this!} Good luck!

Posted by: Elizabeth, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 1:42pm; Reply: 60
What about royal jelly?  Does that have any protective/digestive properties?  I think it keeps forever if not heated, but I may be wrong.  (I just remembered that I have some, and wondered if it might be another anti-candida item.)
Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 1:58pm; Reply: 61
I saw some royal jelly today that said not to take it if you had any allergies, which sounded a bit strange?

Think someone has mentioned royal jelly on the forum here before though as good for something, can't remember if it was candida or what..
Posted by: resting, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 3:39pm; Reply: 62
Hi folks,

Royal Jelly is touted as a great gut healer.  I would assume it has strong anti-candida properties.  Never heard of an allergy connection ... to me it means to start slowly and see if it'll cause a bad reaction ... there are some people who have extreme sensitivities to bee venom - these people are also allergic to ANY bee product.

Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 3:46pm; Reply: 63
Ah. okei :)

The royal jelly sure looks nice.. a bit chewy I guess? (which I like..) if that can be good for us.. hmm.

Anything special to look out for when buying royal jelly?
Posted by: resting, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 3:58pm; Reply: 64
Sorry Glenn,

don't know very much about it ...

but just remembered the article about raw foods.  He eats raw meat .... and he seems to blend everything with unheated honey.  Could this honey be blended with first-frozen meat?  Wonder?????????

Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 4:12pm; Reply: 65
Hmm.. Can you repost that raw foods link? ..not sure if it's still around on the forum.

I'll go do a search.

Anyways, you mean you would add the unheated honey when the frozen meat has made it back to room temperature, right?

How much honey do you think?

How's the price on the unheated honey you buy?
..the manuka honey thing i got was really expensive.. :s

Picturing the raw meat and honey mixture actually looks/sounds kinda good.,. hmm, sure sounds interesting

I really want to give the raw meat a try, just still scared about any possible illnesses etc we've been told that you can get by eating raw meat or meat that's not been fried/grilled/warmed enough etc..
Posted by: TheViking, Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 5:06pm; Reply: 66
Ah, nevermind about that link, found it on this very thread, first page ;)
Posted by: slyparrot, Monday, April 17, 2006, 3:40pm; Reply: 67
On the first thread page there was some discussion of the candida spit test.  Can someone explain this to me?  
Posted by: KimonoKat, Monday, April 17, 2006, 4:24pm; Reply: 68
Quoted from slyparrot
On the first thread page there was some discussion of the candida spit test.  Can someone explain this to me?  

Candida spit test explained

BTD Forums Candida Spit Test Thread #2

BTD forums Candida Spit Test Thread #1
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