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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  sourdough rice bread
Posted by: rosa, Thursday, February 7, 2013, 10:30am
Bread was my most troublesome foods in my past, I was really addicted! Now I just  make spelt bread for my A husband, while I eat rice cakes  :( I found a recipe for making a sourdough starter, so I used rice flour (it´s Doves Farm brown & white rice flour) and now 10 days of ´culturing´I think it might be ready to start the bread. However, I cannot seem to find a recipe ....does anyone have one I could try?? Or is there another alternative for this ´bread-starved´ O Gatherer ;D
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, February 7, 2013, 12:35pm; Reply: 1
The last time I made sourdough bread was pre-BTD when I was using wheat flour, although I did use rye flour for the starter (I'd read that rye worked better for making a starter.)

The basic technique for making sourdough bread is to take the starter, put it in a  big bowl, add water and more flour, let it sit about 10 minutes, then put half of this mixture into a clean jar to be the starter for the next batch. Into the bowl you add the rest of the bread ingredients: salt, oil, egg (optional) sweeteners (also optional) and more flour until the dough is firmer. For a rice bread, I'd leave the dough somewhat sticky so it stays moist after baking, and an egg would help the final product hold together better.

With gluten sourdough, I'd let rise in the bowl and then punch down, move to a loaf pan and rise again before baking. With gluten-free breads, I've had the best results with only one rising time- so move to the loaf pan or shape into rolls before it rises the first time. The rising may take a few hours, and the rising time for a homemade sourdough starter is even less predictable. It should about double in size before baking.
Posted by: rosa, Friday, February 8, 2013, 9:30am; Reply: 2
ruthiegirl, many thanks for putting me in the right direction...I did as you suggested,added some soaked flaxseeds/chia seeds,pumpkin seeds, egg, oil,and salt...I didn´t add any sweetener which I would do next time. It turned out quite edible to my surprise as I hadn´t ever made a gluten-free bread ,never mind a sourdough one! So at least now I can enjoy a slice, relatively guilt-free :P

What breads, if any, do other O´s  here eat??? Or do you avoid it completely??
Posted by: cajun, Saturday, February 9, 2013, 1:07am; Reply: 3
My DH is an O hunter and he loves bread, especially sourdough or rustic country types.
It is very hard for him to stay completely away from it but he tries. :-/
Posted by: C_Sharp, Saturday, February 9, 2013, 3:13am; Reply: 4
Something is necessary to trap air bubbles in bread other wise the gas released by the yeast just escape into the air. This results in a product with the texture of a brick rather than the texture of bread.

With gluten free flours like rice you will need something to substitute for the gluten.

Xanthan gum seems to be the most common thing add to rice flour to give it the elasticity needed to make a bread like product.

That is not compliant for a lot of folks so you may need to find something else to do the same thing. Lots of the options are not compliant so one sometimes has to do some searching to find what is compliant and works for you.

Posted by: rosa, Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:22pm; Reply: 5
I didn´t actually need to add xanthan gum,just 1 egg, and it had a good bread Ruthie suggested I kept the mixture fairly wet so it didn´t just resemble crumbs..and it didn´t turn out like a brick either! The sourdough starter gave it enough "rise" time I might add a little sweetener otherwise it´s a pretty decent gluten-free loaf!
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, February 10, 2013, 6:35am; Reply: 6
ok Rosa, we are all ears for the recipe!!! ;D

great job!
Posted by: rosa, Sunday, February 10, 2013, 1:59pm; Reply: 7
Lola, I just wish I´d taken note of the exact recipe..but it was a matter of a bit of this ´n that..whatever I had to hand!
So briefly here it is ..loosely..

Made sourdough starter by adding about 1/2 cup of rice flour to warm water (about 25C) and added in 4 grapes(organic would be best,but I used regular ones..) to start a natural yeast activation. It fermented on countertop for a few days, then I added a little more rice flour and little more warm water..mixed it well with wooden spoon and let sit for 10 days. (this is all very approximate I´m afraid!)
I ended up with about 500ml (16fl oz) of sourdough starter.

On the day I made the bread I ´fed´the starter  with little more flour and warm water a couple of times, a few hours apart, to ensure it was "active"!

As Ruthie suggested I poured the entire starter into a ceramic mixing bowl( removed the grapes at this stage) from what I´ve read it´s best not to use stainless steel.
Then added in about 2 cups of rice flour and enough warm water to make a ´batter -like texture´(again about was lukewarm to touch).
Left it again to activate for about half an hour. Then removed half of the mixture to use next time as a starter. ( now resting in glass jar in the fridge).

Then added  in about half cup roasted pumpkin seeds, same amount of soaked flaxseeds/chia seeds, 1 beaten egg,pinch sea-salt, and about 1 dessp EVOO.

The mixture wasn´t quite "runny" but certainly more moist than regular bread at this point.

Placed it all in an oiled glass loaf-tin, covered with cling-film...left rise in barely warm oven for about 3 hours. It didn´t exactly double in size as Ruthie suggested it should...but I was impatient!
I should have drizzled the top with more EVOO to give a more attractive ´bake´ ...but you could also top it with suitable seeds or herbs if you liked.

Baked it at 170C for about 40 mins....Left it to cool on rack until I felt it ok to try a warm slice :P
DH and DD who both love my spelt yeast breads actually gave it thumbs up, but said it could do with a perhaps next time...

Sorry it´s just a very approximate recipe...also requiring some patience to make the initial ´sourdough starter´...but it was well worth the effort and hope I can replicate it next time  :)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, February 10, 2013, 2:19pm; Reply: 8
Thanks for your detailed explanations!  A quick check on an online conversion tells me that 170 C = 338 F, so I'd bake it at 335 or 340 (though I'm sure 325 or 350 would work just as well.)

This week, in addition to making little rolls of rice challah, I tried making a big loaf so I could slice it up for sandwiches. I used my usual recipe with agave, eggs, water, olive oil, salt, yeast, and rice flour. The rolls came out perfect but the texture of the loaf was completely off- it was tasty but way too crumbly to make into sandwiches. Leah said it tasted like cornbread. It was enjoyed, but it wasn't what I was trying to make. I probably didn't use enough egg (or some egg plus some flax/chia mixture, like you used) to hold it together properly.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, February 14, 2013, 6:36am; Reply: 9
thank you..... :)
Posted by: Wally, Friday, March 1, 2013, 10:06am; Reply: 10
Is Xanthan Gum OK for A's? My SWAMI doesn't mention it, but Guar and Mastic are!!
Posted by: C_Sharp, Friday, March 1, 2013, 3:43pm; Reply: 11
I assume that Xanthum would have ratings similar to guar gum.

If you search prior posts, you should find that in general people have poor tolerance of it.

I try not to consume it; since it is normally made from corn and I do not do well with corn products.

You might look to see if your SWAMI contains this comment "should avoid gums and resins such as carrageenan, agar-agar, mastic and guar gum" that seems to apply to gums in general.  This comment, if it occurs is usually in the carbohydrate section.

If you want to use a gum, you might want to look at Locust Bean Gum.

Locust bean gum is different from other gums in that it is just the ground up endosperm of locust seeds.

I handle carob/locust bean gum fine--it is a superfood for teachers, explorers in the GenoType book. Neutral for warriors.

Posted by: Wally, Friday, March 1, 2013, 6:39pm; Reply: 12
Yes, it does say that under my carbohydrate listing in SWAMI. Thank you for clarifying that, C_sharp.
Posted by: yvonneb, Friday, March 1, 2013, 9:32pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from rosa

What breads, if any, do other O´s  here eat??? Or do you avoid it completely??

Hi 'Rosa' :)

I am a great fan of the foccacia bread slices- recipe on this site somewhere- you'll find it easy.

I make it with only 2-3 eggs (like Lola :D)and it turns out great. Also tried it with 1/2 riceflour 1/2 flax and that also turned out perfect. I like the crispy bits, so I always run the fork over the top to make 'stripes' that stick up before I bake it.

Last time I shaped it more like a loaf (appx 2 1/2 '' high, baked 10 min longer) and THAT was a hit!
I could cut slices that didn't crumble, lovely taste (as always), looked like bread (I used 1/2 golden, 1/2 brown linseed)- I was able to make a 'proper' sandwich- Happy budgy all round  ;D

In general, I always use 100% linseed/ flaxseed so it counts towards 'nuts/ seeds' :)
With riceflour mixed in I might end up with too many carbs for the day  :)

Posted by: SquarePeg, Saturday, March 2, 2013, 1:39am; Reply: 14
I buy sourdough Spelt bread, Berlin Bakery brand.  It's just Spelt flour, water and sea salt.

I would think ground flax seed would be good to hold the bread together.
Posted by: kitari, Saturday, March 2, 2013, 3:01am; Reply: 15
This post interests me greatly.  You can leaven bread by using 4 grapes!?!  Wow.  I may need to garner enough courage to try this.  Just think of all the gluten free baking powder I would no longer have to buy.  Thank you for the information.
Posted by: rosa, Saturday, March 2, 2013, 2:17pm; Reply: 16
Hi Yvonneb  :)
is it the "multi-grain bread" recipe  you use?? it looks like it´s mostly eggs, flaxseeds and choice of other flours like rice flour or could be another bread I´d like to try! As I know how addictive breads and carbs can be for me I try to not eat it it´s good to find recipes that don´t trigger that insulin-spike...hope all is good in your part of the country!

yes it sounds crazy..leavening bread with grapes! I found the basic idea in a macrobiotic book (from a macrobiotic deli in Dublin called Blazing Salads..wonderful tasty healthy meat though...I had dabbled with macrobiotics in my pre-BTD years!!).... the natural yeasts are on the skin of the grapes..
Posted by: yvonneb, Monday, March 11, 2013, 7:12pm; Reply: 17
This is the one

I mainly make it with 100% flax/ linseed, but be careful- too much of this good thing might make things move along a bit smarter in the colon department  ;)

Posted by: rosa, Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 6:30pm; Reply: 18
Hi yvonneb...thank you for the link..I have actually made this bread previously! I did eat it, but found the texture more like an omelette..perhaps I used too many eggs! I´d like to try it again tho´ with fewer eggs which would hopefully give a drier more bread-like texture.

Thanks for the warning re "colon dept." !! I use flaxseeds every day anyway and like the fact that they keep me "regular"!!!! ;D
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