Quoted TextInterestingly, polyamines (linked to dietary
lectins), principally spermidine, also have
modulatory effect on the NMDA receptor by
regulating nitric oxide production, probably
by facilitating intracellular mRNA.
Quoted TextBoth polyamine formation and lectin avoidance are addressed in ER4YT, which is probably why the diet does work rather well in psoriasis.
Quoted from Lolathe food given, together with the genoharmonics, have taken all into consideration, given your variables
also try the search feature, for older threads dealing with the same
people are trying to advise you not to get so wrapped up in the detail, but you are. let go of all the data in your head, (with respect) and just follow the diet. As you get better you can then adapt and change as your body tells you too.
1. The above seems to indicate that organic, wild, and grass-fed is more important than whether it's flash-frozen or canned. In other words, wild/grass-fed flash-frozen is preferable to canned farmed/cafo. Is this correct? of course it is
2. Since I need some polyamines, how do I know whether I have enough polyamines, too few, or too many? eat within the portion and frequency advise of swami, use it as a guide and then fine tune.
3. When you eat high-polyamine foods, how long do the extra polyamines stay in your body? In other words, do I need to 'remove' stored polyamines from pre-GTD diets? why not just try and avoid foods high in amaines.
4. Can excess levels of polyamines cause cancer or do they merely feed it if you develop it? who cares, just avoid them! lol
5. Do ALL blood types/epigenotypes have to control polyamines or only those that are susceptible to cancer? it is is worked out in swami, the food chioces take all these things into account. all in moderation.
6. Do the mitigating foods have to be consumed at the same time as the offending foods or can they be taken as supplements once or twice a day?It is only one areas that you are looking at, it all works out if you just eat compliantly. if you have a specific problem then follow a protocol to correct that before continuing with swami. although if yo have the swami setting correctly with all the info in there it will sort it for you
Quoted from ruthiegirlBased on what I've seen of BHealthy's posts, she doesn't fall into that category. She has a scientific mind and wants to take a look at the hard data so she can do her own research; after that she'll determine whether or not to follow Dr D's advice to the letter or whether she wants to make some alterations. There are also times when Dr D's advice isn't completely clear-cut (such as whether to eat frozen or canned fish) and she wants to do her own research on the "best" way to follow his guidelines.
He's written a textbook designed for graduate students and is working on a second textbook; BHealthy may appreciate the depth of information in the textbook.
There's also a Facebook page called "Generative Medicine" that's more technically oriented than most of the BTD Facebook pages which may interest you. You need to be invited by somebody who's already in the group to be able to join it. If you PM me I can help you get hooked up with that- but be aware that Yom Kippur starts tomorrow night and I may not have much time to be on the computer before Thursday (in a few minutes I'm getting offline, probably for the rest of today.)
First of all, @AKArtlover, thank you for understanding my line of thinking. I looked at the encyclopedia and it's almost $300! For that, I need to be sure the info is what I'm looking for, so I need to find a public copy I can peruse before I spring for it. What is the return policy on books?
Consumer book, not textbook. Some of the items will tell you that they inhibit polyamine synthesis.
Second, why does everyone assume, whenever I ask for clarification, that I'm looking for reasons to cheat? I have stated repeatedly that I am following my SWAMI religiously. Telling me to "just follow the diet" when I'm asking for advice on the best way to continue to do so is contradictory.
If SWAMI requires that I stifle my ability to reason, then it's a cult, and I seriously doubt that is Dr. D's intention.
I think the response is more along the lines of "aim for excellence and not perfection"
Obvious to you, perhaps, but with respect to polyamines -- does freezing or canning create more of them -- it is not so obvious to me or I would not have asked. If I'm to follow the diet, it has to be possible to follow it. You can't tell me I must eat fresh wild-caught fish and give me no alternatives if they are not available where I live.
Yes, freezing creates more. You have to eat. It is better most often to eat something frozen than to exclude it completely. Balanced with other foods that counteract (weighting all factors).
How am I supposed to 'fine tune' if I don't know how to determine whether I have enough, too few or too many?
In time, you will learn to listen to your body telling you if something is a good choice or not.
Due to the limited amount of input data required, SWAMI has to make assumptions, and I suspect that it assumes the worst with respect to past damage and provides an aggressive anti-polyamine protocol to mitigate that.
If you have serious health concerns, it is best to go see Dr. D or the U of B shift especially if a qualified practioner is not in your area.
In my case, I eliminated most of the offending foods over two years ago and the rest of them, except for flash-frozen fish, when I started SWAMI last month. I have also been taking every one of the ODC inhibiting foods (except larch which I will order today) for years. So, if polyamines are necessary for some critical processes, I'm not sure I NEED an aggressive anti-polyamine protocol UNLESS I have to mitigate the effects of the diet I followed over two years ago.
If polyamines linger in the body like mercury, then I do, and I will make a concerted effort to clean house. If not, and I only have to deal with the ones I'm currently eating, then I probably don't have to worry about the few pieces of flash-frozen fish I eat every week.
Since I started this thread, I have been doing additional research and have found two tests to determine polyamine levels: The indican test recommended in LR4YT, and this quote from a review of LR4YT: "Albumin is used to assess the long term nutritional status of patients since it reflect body protein stores for the last month. The reference range: 3.5 – 5-2 G/dL. Levels above 4.8 probably indicate higher polyamine levels, levels below 4 are safe levels. A few symptoms are bad breath, headaches from fermented foods such as wine, bear, or sauerkraut."
So, on Wednesday, I will be having some lab tests done. The lab reports I have from 1983-1996, when I practically lived on gluten, sugar, and dairy, show my albumin levels varying between 3.9 and 4.6. Indican was not measured.
I suspect that the reason it's so hard for me to get answers to my questions is that nobody knows them. If that's the case, why can't you just say so? Why is it necessary to make me feel like I'm ignorant for needing clarification?
Most people here have varying levels of education and input here; I think people's hearts are in the right place-- essentially they are saying, this works-- relax and let your body heal.
I also cook for my husband (A-), my sister (?), and my niece (?). They all refuse to follow SWAMI, so I have to protect them on the sly, and I would like to know if my sister and niece need to be concerned about polyamines as well. My questions are never only about me....
You are getting hung up on one issue. There are many aspects about foods. Variety, balance, quality.
Thank you for the information on protocols; I did not know that was how the protocols were supposed to be used.
The advice given elsewhere in this forum to marinate flash-frozen meats in cherry juice implies that polyamines need to be inhibited when they are prepared/consumed. This is what makes me think that I don't have to worry about past 'transgressions'. But it also makes me worry that the ODC-inhibitors I've been taking are not as effective as I'd like them to be because I take them in the morning, not with the offending foods.
Unfortunately, I cannot turn off the wheels that are constantly turning in my brain and little details like this might make the difference between the diet working extremely well and working only marginally better than what I've managed on my own.
Dr. D said the people who get the best results are somewhere between 70-80?% compliant. I'm not worried about the percent other than misquoting. Higher compliance initially if ill is beneficial.
The answers are important. The only way for me to eliminate stress is with knowledge.
I am the generally the same Myers Brigg. Shifting your thinking slightly may help. Take this to extreme thought to see how ridiculous it sounds. i.e. "If I don't understand every single bodily process and the exact foods to put into my body, I am going to die after my next meal." Nah, the body is dynamic and flexible and always working toward health.
My neurotic need to know landed me in Dr. D's office as there was a lot more uncertainty than a detail about foods (health issues and genuinely Explorer/Hunterish typing as Warrior-confusing to me with a torn up gut). The type of detailed education you are desiring would from him directly (if that's how you would choose to use your alloted appointment time) or to go to U of B with a major as an ND or happening upon someone to get into a detailed convo with at an IFHI conference. I have the textbook and the conference CD's and will enjoy them when I get to them, but don't have the time to investigate this at this point.
I would also like to know (know, not hope) that I'm preventing the cancer, HBP, arthritis, and dementia that runs in my family. So far, I've been spared.
Quoted TextMatthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
Quoted from AKArtlover
It was the textbook I was referring to. Does it explain the logic behind the diet or does it teach naturopathy?