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BTD Forums  /  Testimonials  /  Big changes for 4 y.o. off dairy
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 1:46pm
My 4 1/2 year-old, J, was typed "B" at birth.  There were enough B-like clots to call her a B, according to DH.  So from the time she started solids, I had no qualms about feeding her dairy.  I didn't give her milk, but I freely gave her yogurt and cheeses appropriate for a B.  From birth she was exceptionally strong physically--you know, one of those babies you don't really believe is doing what they're doing, like holding their head up, doing the army crawl at 6 weeks, walking at 10 months......She met her milestones on time or early, even compared to her siblings.  

But by the time she was 3, we could see that although she had a big vocabulary, it was difficult to understand her.  The pediatrician said she needed occupational and speech therapy.  We declined because she was *only* three.  He said she had fluid behind an eardrum, but later I asked the chiropractor (and then, even later, the ped again) to check and it had cleared up without any help.  In addition to the speech issues, she was very dizzy.  She was sturdy and clumsy and when she fell, she fell hard...and didn't seem to hurt.  She talked too loud, hugged too hard, and was overly cheerful (a welcome change from our first daughter who was touchy and moody).  Up until a few months ago, J had trouble sitting at the table because she'd fall off her chair multiple times a  meal. She can't wear underwear because she says they itch her.  She wears stretch pants with a cotton dress or a long shirt. All this was telling me there was something up with her nervous system.  Fish oils and such didn't seem to help.

We home school, which means I have extra time to devote to each of them.  I'd read to J, let her draw pictures, and do the Montessori things recommended to help children use tactile methods to learn letters.  She couldn't ever remember any.  When she drew a face, it was upside down. (Now, you should understand that we adore our children and don't get bent out of shape about learning delays.  We help them learn, but we do not force them to the point that they hate it.  Everything I did with her was encouraging and celebratory.) We took her off gluten (she was only eating spelt and oats--no wheat) per the suggestions of people on the board here and her dizziness did become more manageable.  The eye doctor said she couldn't see well close up and to not push the reading.  That was helpful and I'm glad we took her.  Nothing was wrong with her ears that they could find.  Also, I had speech therapy myself as a kid, plus I worked as an aid at a school for special needs children for several years, so I'm not entirely clueless as to how to help.  I just brought her attention to it and modeled it in a fun and exaggerated way.  Things did improve some.

At birth, J had an odd high-pitched scream.  The midwife noticed it; I didn't until she pointed it out, because....well, because by the time any of my babies are a couple of days old, the postpartum depression comes roaring in and I can't think for another year.  When I'd lay down to nurse her, instead of her swallowing the milk, it would stream out her nose.  I had to sit upright and have her upright when I nursed her or she'd choke and spew it out her nose.  Of course I couldn't think of it then, but now looking back, I'm wondering if the roof of her mouth hadn't closed all the way.  I wonder if there are varying degrees of cleft palate.  I was by far the sickest with her, having trouble even keeping down water.  Within a couple of months the problem resolved itself and I was able to nurse her horizontally.  But then combine that with the later speech issues and I wonder if the midwife and ped just missed a palate problem.  She's the only one of the four children who is heavy.  She's by no means fat--not even chubby--but she is solid as all get-out.  Very physically strong (she can lift incredibly heavy objects for someone her age) and hearty.

About a year ago somebody offered us some raw goat milk. I let her drink it.  Within an hour she was throwing up.  

Oops, this is turning into a book.

Well, fast-forward to a couple of months ago.  I began to think we should retest to make sure she really was a B.  We happened to be in NY for the Brooklyn store's open house, so Andrea tested her.  Lo and behold, she's an O!  I immediately took her off dairy (much to J's disappointment) and looked forward to seeing any changes that might come.  

Here are the things we've noticed:

She suddenly learned half a dozen letters without me trying to teach her.

She draws right-side up.

She can now match a pitch (before, she was the only child who couldn't sing.  Even the two-year-old can sing on pitch).

She hardly ever falls.  She can run faster.

She still can't follow very basic instructions (she forgets, just like her brother--and me--) but I hope that'll get better.

She's slimming down.  

Her speech hasn't cleared up at all yet, but I don't expect that to happen quite so soon since talking is very much a habit.  As she can hear better, maybe she will eventually learn to speak better as well.  I believe that the dairy was causing swelling in her ears, undetectable by the doctors. I also believe that dairy and gluten were causing the dizziness.  I have high hopes that she will continue to get better.

Of course I would have taken her off dairy long ago if I'd known she was an O.  I just assumed that dairy wasn't likely the culprit because of her B-ness.

What a testament to the Blood Type Diet!  
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 1:48pm; Reply: 1
Glad to have been part of the process!
Posted by: Jane, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 2:51pm; Reply: 2
Wow....that's amazing Leanne!  
Posted by: Goldie, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 2:55pm; Reply: 3
Milk in O's is devastating from Birth..   Yes one might need to feed the baby breast milk for a short while but then .. as soon as.. the blood type might become its own, then it is time to reconsider.. I have been saying this for years and you have just proven my point.. O's can suffer from milk.

I am so glad you found it out.. what a difference for her life!  great going Ribbit...  

...... with every good by we learn.  
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 3:24pm; Reply: 4
Wow- what a remarkable improvement!

Goldie, I completely disagree with you regarding type O babies and human breast milk. IMO, type O babies need breast milk even more than those of other blood types because babies and toddlers need milk, period, and, unlike Bs, As, or ABs, type O tots can't tolerate cow's milk, goat's milk, or yogurt. So they need human milk even more, as there are no safe substitutes. IMO, type O babies should be breastfed until at least age 2, and then as long afterwards as both mom and baby are comfortable with.

I think that the type O babies who don't do well on breastmilk are reacting to something in Mom's diet, very likely cow's milk proteins that slip into the breastmilk.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Sunday, November 13, 2011, 4:35pm; Reply: 5
All my problems began when I started drinking a lot of milk as a tween.  Inspiring story!
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 5:15pm; Reply: 6
Great testimony, Ribbit

My 12 year old Blood type A grandson (formerly  ADHD)  (now off dairy for two years) went from
having practically no attention span, living on steroids for asthma, ....doing poorly in most subjects in school is now a much calmer almost all A student with hardly any asthma symptoms..  He's also off gluten.  The two intolerances often go together. (casein and gluten)

He's been on the A diet for over a year.  Miraculous!  :)
Posted by: TJ, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 5:44pm; Reply: 7
Happy news, Ribbit!
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 5:45pm; Reply: 8
Great news Rib,

You might like to try the following which helped Emily who sounds very similar.

a teaspoon of organic flax oil in the morning. we also give Emily vit and mineral supps 1/4 dose (exakta and phytocal) go easy on fruit. and avoid sugar, even a dry rice cake throws Emily off balance.

organic veg and beef, lamb, turkey, limit chicken,

Emily get a fruit smoothie twice a week as a treat, pineapple, blueberry, mango & banana with a teaspoon of Harmonia deluxe. we share it between the three of us.

i also give Emily an additional 1/2 drop of lugols iodine in her water in th mornings, which she takes to school. all this plus eating very compliantly has enable Emily to thrive and thrive.

good luck oxo
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 5:46pm; Reply: 9
might be an idea to secretor test her sounds like a nonie, emily is.
Posted by: ABJoe, Sunday, November 13, 2011, 7:55pm; Reply: 10
I'm so glad you looked outside what you "knew" to find the problem.  It is always a relief to us parents when we find answers to our children's problems.

Great job!
Posted by: TJ, Monday, November 14, 2011, 1:08am; Reply: 11
It reminds me of the "Ron-O-Non" to "Ron-A-Non" saga a few years ago.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 12:36pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
might be an idea to secretor test her sounds like a nonie, emily is.

IIRC, both Ribbit and her DH are both nonnies, which means that all the kids are nonnies and there's no need to test them.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 2:09pm; Reply: 13
Ribbit now to take care of yourself and get a new SWAMI.

See how things have changed for J--
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 2:28pm; Reply: 14
Ruthygirl... for me the question is not: do I or do I not? the question is how long should the suffering go on..

I rather be proven wrong then stubborn  - in all I do..  I suffered 3 decades, then we did not know better, today we do.. and we can do the testing our selves.. two days off any food will tell the differences..

This is not about ideology, nor agreement.. but LEARNING what all we have to ..   one item at a time..

Dr. James D wrote that not all can have bananas often, news to me then, but I learned!   and I eat them seldom now.  He listened to his clients and he learned - that we are not all a like.  

Sometimes it takes many posts to get the answers, other times its just a suggestion that turned out to be YES or NO.. its not the suggestion that matters, it's the open mind that makes the learning possible.  I am in favor of Breast, as I am in favor of many things -but - there are the exceptions..    
Posted by: TJ, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 2:57pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Goldie
I am in favor of Breast...
I like them too. ;)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 3:20pm; Reply: 16
Goldie- somehow I doubt you were drinking breastmilk until your 20's. It must have been cow's milk you were consuming that made you suffer.

Human breastmilk isn't a "dairy product" in the strictest sense of the word. It's considered a "clear liquid" in the context of consuming it before surgury. It doesn't lead to nasal congestion the way cow's (and, less commonly, goat's) milk products can do. And it doesn't hurt babies.

The babies who do poorly on breastmilk fall into one of two categories. Most of the time, it's a reaction to something in mom's diet. There are also very rare, but very serious metabolic disorders where babies can't tolerate breastmilk and need to be on soy or predigested formula. Breastmilk will literally kill these babies in a very short time. Plus there are many more cases where sometimes formula is a better choice than breastfeeding for that family at that time, due to mom's health and/or baby's health- we live in a complex world and complex situations arise.

But, as a general rule, breastmilk is what babies and toddlers should be drinking, if there are no obstacles in the way. Most of the time it's the healthiest thing for the child, no matter what the child's blood type.

Goldie- I know you're done having children so this won't affect you directly,  but many people read these boards and may be influenced by our posts. I don't want to let misinformation stand un-corrected.
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 3:20pm; Reply: 17
LOL  see! an answer we can agree on..

Ruthygirl.. For me it was pain from the first feeding.. so much so that I could never be cuddled.. my moms words..

I lived with belly pain for 32 years.. I was doubled over ready to go to the hospital again instead of on vacation in three days ays.. when finally I went to a new doctor where I got good advice..

Before that TIME - DECADES AGO>>> I was put in the hospital at least once  a year for several days, therefore the 168 x ray plates.. all to no avail..

I am not talking of the millions who can be what is normal.. but when a problem presents itself, then it is time to consider my suggestion or yours.. the options are important, not the follow through..  

I have one young lady 25 now who has so severe indigestion every so often , that even on the strictest Nonnie O foods.. tested by the office of DrD..  she still ends up in emergency care because she doubles over thinking it is a heart attack..   I can assure you I would try almost everything to prevent it in her.. it is painful to see the suffering..
and the money spent..

I myself, just tried drinking the whole raw egg.. did it by putting it in cocoa in water.. swallowed it in three swallows..   will see how it goes..

I also swallowed a table spoon of olive oil to see if it will stave off 'feeling' hungry all day.. I did it with a 'ready to follow' fork of a tasty bite to make sure I could keep it down.. will it matter ? I have no idea yet, but I will 'try' even if sometimes things take a long time before I figure out how I could possibly do it.  I offer the same in all my suggestions.. to the point where I feel that sometimes I talk about ME to much, but I rather make suggestions by example then by decree.  

The moms who come here get much good advice, some person will come up with the right answer, and once in a million my advice will be the right one for that question..   But moms who can not or choose not to be pregnant and breast feed should not be made to feel 'wrong', they deserve 'options' and that is what I am suggesting.  
Posted by: Ribbit, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 6:23pm; Reply: 18
Ruth, this isn't the first time we've had this argument with Goldie.  But I agree with everything you posted.  Breastmilk is not a problem for type Os.  The problem is the mother's diet or, like you said, and extremely rare metabolic problem. J never had colic.  She was a happy baby.  Loved to be cuddled.  Just because I get a mouth rash from eating mangoes doesn't mean everybody else should too.

Okay.  At any rate, I am indeed thankful for the changes in J and I hope things will continue to improve.  If anybody has any info about partial cleft palate and the problems that can come from not correcting the issue, please let me know.  I  may never know what caused it to come out her nose.  But it wasn't because she's an O.  :o

Ruth, we don't know for sure that DH is a nonnie.  He hasn't been tested.  He's perfectly happy on the Nomad diet.
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 7:26pm; Reply: 19
No argument with me.. just enlightenment.. and celebrations for all who find a way to become healthy.  The sacrifice is not in having children or in believing in ideology, but in keeping the child healthy, protected and well. All children that is.  We might even agree on a lot of issues, but closed minded thinking is not one of them...  I was not sick for all my many years because of what mom ate... I even was in pain after my mom had to leave us children to get cancer treatment operations and radiation that lasted 3 month in a different city... I was in pain because 'then' people, doctors and mothers did not KNOW what we know today.  Today we can protect, we can judge, plan and we can make sure that each child has all the advantages each child needs to succeed.  In my book, no child is to suffer for 'poverty' or closed mind, no child is benefiting from arguing about this or that.  Each child will benefit if all is considered for the protection of each child.  It is each child that matters, not my 'opinion'.. No argument with me.

As for cleft issues .. there is on org. I give money to to have children treated.. let me know if a referral is needed. All their services are free.            
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 7:27pm; Reply: 20
Ribbit, I would not assume because the milk came out of J's nose it is a cleft palate issue.  

Am I the only one on these boards who has laughed so hard after taking a drink of milk that it came out my nose???  I had a friend who laughed so hard after taking a big biteful of spagetti that the spagetti came out her nose.  Neither of us have cleft palate issue.

I know you are very concerned about your child, so I hope you don't take this post in the wrong way.  I know your baby was not laughing, but I don't think it is that unusual for something taken into the mouth to exit through the nose.  

Sharing with the best of intentions . . .
Posted by: Jane, Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 8:38pm; Reply: 21
If I recall (and it's a long time ago because my oldest is 36) my older son would gulp so quickly that milk came out his nose.  He's an A and I'm an O.  He was colicky and had his days and nights mixed up and was ADD.  Very smart, very social but had terrible problems concentrating in school.  He was reading simple words at 3.  He was an exhausting child but has turned into a fabulous father and loving adult.  My younger one was so hungry that I had to supplement with rice cereal pretty early.  He wasn't satisfied with just breast milk.  Wonder about it now.  His weight has been an issue since about 6 years old.  

We do the best we can with the information we have at the time.  Wish I knew then what I know now and I wish that my children would adopt this lifestyle.  I do what I can when they are with me but I have no control over what they do as adults.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 12:11am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Ribbit
  Just because I get a mouth rash from eating mangoes doesn't mean everybody else should too.

Lots of people get a rash from Mango the skin is related to poison ivy.

Quoted Text
Potential for contact dermatitis
Mango peel and sap contains urushiol, the chemical in poison ivy and poison sumac that can cause urushiol-induced contact dermatitis in susceptible people.[19] Cross-reactions between mango contact allergens and urushiol have been observed.[20] Those with a history of poison ivy or poison oak contact dermatitis may be most at risk for such an allergic reaction.[21] Urushiol is also present in mango leaves and stems. During mango's primary ripening season, it is the most common source of plant dermatitis in Hawaii.[22]

Posted by: Ribbit, Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 2:15am; Reply: 23
Patty--no worries.  :)  Maybe it's more common than I realize.  

Andrea, that's the funny thing.  I've never had poison ivy, and I walk through it regularly.  Rob is so allergic to poison ivy that he's been hospitalized for it, and yet he can eat mangoes with no trouble.   :)
Posted by: SquarePeg, Friday, November 18, 2011, 12:53am; Reply: 24
Ribbit, thanks for sharing.  I'm glad she's improving.
Posted by: Ribbit, Saturday, November 26, 2011, 8:27pm; Reply: 25
Ugh.  J had some sour cream a couple of days ago and she's dizzy and drooly and crying.  I guess that just goes to show.....what a fabulous diet this is.

Now.  A very strange change is that since she's been dairy-free, it's been hard to get her to eat.  She's lost her appetite and it's been difficult to entice her to eat anything but fruit and almond butter.  She doesn't want beef (always her favorite) or turkey or anything.  It's weird.  She's always been my least-picky eater.
Posted by: TJ, Sunday, November 27, 2011, 7:42am; Reply: 26
Maybe it's one of those low-appetite healing phases.
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, November 27, 2011, 2:22pm; Reply: 27
Maybe so.  Her body is definitely healing.  Maybe as she heals her scars will heal.  She tends to form keloids.  

I think what thrills me most is not only her suddenly learning letters but also being able to sing on pitch.  That's so awesome to me!  She still has some hesitations when she's talking (stopping mid-sentence to stare into space), but I do that myself, so I can't be annoyed too much. ;)
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Sunday, November 27, 2011, 7:17pm; Reply: 28
the learning is in a special sequence each sequential thing must be down in the right order and only when it is right. I have been studying Glen Doman work. like all great work it is ultimately very simple but you must stick to it.

but when it is all going to plan, children just "click" as each little bit is ready to work. a few months ago Emily just wasn't interested in reading, now she reads perfectly, with no additional teaching she used to memories the stories, just an abiding interest and a natural progression. she read me a whole story book today out of nowhere lol amazing.

Love, encouragement, good diet, nothing artificial and a teaspoon of flax oil twice a day.

Posted by: Goldie, Sunday, November 27, 2011, 8:33pm; Reply: 29
Quoted Text
I think what thrills me most is not only her suddenly learning letters but also being able to sing on pitch.  That's so awesome to me!  She still has some hesitations when she's talking (stopping mid-sentence to stare into space), but I do that myself, so I can't be annoyed too much.

there are times when one can jump for joy!! you deserve those moments..
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, November 27, 2011, 9:03pm; Reply: 30
Ribbit - wow I only just caught up with this tread...??!! What an amazing difference & so thrilled for you all ;)
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 4:39pm; Reply: 31
I have just now come across this post!  It is my opinion that lots of Bs don't do well with dairy as I have known some myself.
Dr. Eisenstein, who promotes home births & other natural things, said to me that he was skeptical of the diet cuz he was type B & did poorly with dairy.  Maybe it is the processing of dairy products in this country (along with additives fed to the cows) that is a culprit or maybe it is just that we need fewer of them.
Most Os do well with read meat, but there are some who just don't want it. Maybe that is true with all blood types. We are not cookie-cutter people.
Anyway, Ribbit, I'm glad for your story. It also shows  how important breast milk is. It is compliant no matter the types of the mothers & kids!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 5:23pm; Reply: 32
I wonder how many dairy products Dr Eisenstein would have if he got a SWAMI. It's possible that he'd get something like half a cup of yogurt a day, or that perhaps he has an allergy to milk protiens and would do fine on sheep or  goat milk dairy products.

We're all unique individuals. BTD groups us into 4 or 8  groups (depending on whether or not you include secretor status) which is a huge leap forward compared to "one size fits all diets" but is still isn't completely individualized. Many B's do well on dairy, but a few simply don't.
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