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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  Is it possible I can stay a Vegan?
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Is it possible I can stay a Vegan?  This thread currently has 1,064 views. Print Print Thread
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sassrm
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 1:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter
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Hi there, I'm new to SWAMI as of a week. I am a vegan who began the BTD on Oct.13, then began the GTD on Nov.13. I have continued my vegan eating, except for twice trying a piece of fish and shrimp, AND I guess I am truly not a vegan because I use all my recommended Dr. D'Adamo supplements and I take Fish Oil. I have had great success with each program and want to continue on that path.

As I said I really want to continue my vegan nutrition. I became a vegan four years ago after endless GI issues, GERD, Collitis, IBS, and needing Prilosec twice daily, while thinking I was so healthy living a body building type diet of Organic Grass Fed high protein/no carb diet. After plenty of "issues" and trial and errors, I began being a vegan and I haven't needed any of those medications since. All of the GI issues went away completely. So for me I have had tremendous health benefits. Also, at this point, I TRULY honestly know the only animal products I really could go back to eating is Seafood, Butter/Ghee. My goal, now that I have SWAMI, is to focus  on my health and eliminating or controlling my asthma, allergic & non allergic rhinitis, and my allergies. Eliminating or reducing these RX's and allergy injections would be WONDERFUL!!

This is why I would love to hear you fellow SWAMI'S opinions, advice, and experiences wether vegan or not.
I know inflammation is the biggest issue for me, boy do I know it! So while offering advice please include if supplementing with more fish oil is a possibility as well.

Thanks in advance !! I am looking forward to your responses!
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Lola
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 3:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lola  -  Saturday, May 17, 2014, 4:01pm
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sassrm
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 4:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter
Early Spring: Awareness, desire.
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Age: 43
Thanks for your informative response. I never knew ALL the vegetarian types and just read about pescatarian. I may try eating fish/seafood again. Currently it isn't appealing to me, but I am open to change.

While I am not eating Fish/Seafood, is it possible to increase my daily fish oil supplement to get the anti -inflammatory benefits ?


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Lola
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 4:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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a practitioner running swami for you can design a pescatarian approach and give you personalized servings of all


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ABJoe
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 5:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from sassrm
While I am not eating Fish/Seafood, is it possible to increase my daily fish oil supplement to get the anti -inflammatory benefits ?


Not being type O and not seeing you, etc...  I wonder whether you need the protein mix from the fish as well as the oils all together to get maximum benefit.  

I think one of the major problems we have with all of the refined foods is that we are trying to micromanage nutrition, rather than eating the whole food and letting the body utilize what it needs.  I can't help think that there are natural bonds or connections with the various nutrients/components of natural foods in their whole state that we humans still have no knowledge of...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Averno
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 6:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe


I think one of the major problems we have with all of the refined foods is that we are trying to micromanage nutrition, rather than eating the whole food and letting the body utilize what it needs.  I can't help think that there are natural bonds or connections with the various nutrients/components of natural foods in their whole state that we humans still have no knowledge of...


No doubt.  We can probably get a leg up towards optimum health if we adjust carefully, but our foundational requirements remain the same. I would think that anything disruptive of the perfect synchronous balance of a whole food would also disrupt the body that's been evolved to accommodate it.


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sassrm
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter
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Age: 43
I appreciate your responses and I do agree that following the proper balance of whole foods and supplements are key to achieving optimal health.

Within weeks of beginning the BTD I saw great changes, which increased following the GTD, and now that I have SWAMI I know I will see further improvements.


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Lola
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Possum
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 8:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from sassrm
After plenty of "issues" and trial and errors, I began being a vegan and I haven't needed any of those medications since. All of the GI issues went away completely. So for me I have had tremendous health benefits. Also, at this point, I TRULY honestly know the only animal products I really could go back to eating is Seafood, Butter/Ghee. My goal, now that I have SWAMI, is to focus  on my health and eliminating or controlling my asthma, allergic & non allergic rhinitis, and my allergies. Eliminating or reducing these RX's and allergy injections would be WONDERFUL!!
I know inflammation is the biggest issue for me, boy do I know it! So while offering advice please include if supplementing with more fish oil is a possibility as well.
Hi and glad you got tremendous health benefits and haven't needed any of those medications since!!
Not sure though, if you know but the issues you still have are also gut related?! All conditions pretty well begin from the health of the gut lining... I wonder how you'd feel about meat or bone broth, to transition from being vegetarian and a way of healing that gut lining?

Concerned re any O's taking too many fish oils!! Fish oil thins the blood and O's don't need their blood thinning any more - after once taking too many fish+VitE+flax oil caps myself, I suffered chronic nose bleeds till I worked out what the problem was!!

All the best!! It's not easy getting back to eating meat - I was vegetarian once too!!
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Andrea AWsec
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 8:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is how fish oil is faring in the trials-- might want to think about the membrosia cocktail instead.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3914521/


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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susanC
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 10:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Andrea AWsec
This is how fish oil is faring in the trials-- might want to think about the membrosia cocktail instead.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3914521/


Andrea--I just skimmed this exhaustive report.  Anyone else wish to chime in here?  Am I the only one on the board that was unaware of this?

I take my Teacher supplements which include flax oil rather than fish, but I notice that some of the geno-type formulas do include fish.

After reading this report, why would anyone take fish oil supplements?  Am I missing something here?
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EquiPro
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 11:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I, personally, don't think that being a Vegan, for an O, can coexist with health.  I would never say never, but I'm doubtful.  If you're a O Gatherer, I think that it's impossible.  Being Vegan means relying on plant protein and all of them except nuts are also starch.  Starch just is a problem for us Os.  I went Vegan for over a year and I was never more unhealthy in my life.   GI problems, constant fatigue, absurd weight gain, lethargy, brain fog,etc., etc.  All of the symptoms went away the moment put meat back into my diet.

Eggs are a great food for Os and that might be a place to start.  Please read up on the issue of radiation in all fish from Fukishima before relying on fish as your only animal protein.

This is all just my humble opinion, btw.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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susanC
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 11:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Naturally, the author of the article does have a product to sell, which always complicates credibility.
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PCUK-Positive
Sunday, May 18, 2014, 12:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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whatever you decide to do do it slowly as you have been meat free for a while you need to get you body used it meat again.

consider bone broths or things like chicken consume or beef consume soups, keep meat portion sizes small, only organic, perhaps try a little turkey.


take your time and if you are not keen on something now give it another try in a month or two.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Lloyd
Sunday, May 18, 2014, 12:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from susanC

After reading this report, why would anyone take fish oil supplements?  Am I missing something here?


It has been shown to be useful in lowering triglycerides. That is for pancreatic rather than cardiovascular reasons.

I have also seen something recently that implicated high levels of EPA or DHA (or both, can't recall) with increased cancer risk. Unfortunately can't track it down and don't recall the details.

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Lloyd
Sunday, May 18, 2014, 1:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lloyd


I have also seen something recently that implicated high levels of EPA or DHA (or both, can't recall) with increased cancer risk. Unfortunately can't track it down and don't recall the details.



Not what I was looking for but this from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center has some other tidbits that may or may not be up to date:

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/omega-3

Quoted Text
Clinical Summary

A type of polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) derived mainly from fish oil, omega-3 fatty acids are used as dietary supplement for depression, to lower cholesterol, and to reduce the risk of heart attack. A large survey of Finnish adults found that depressive symptoms were significantly higher among infrequent fish consumers (1) and other studies have shown that individuals with major depression have marked depletions in omega-3 fatty acids (2). Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation did not relieve depression in adults with major depression (3), mild to moderate depression (4), or perinatal depression (5), and yielded mixed results in those with schizophrenia (23). But data from a randomized trial suggest that omega-3 may be useful in reducing the risk of progression to psychiatric disorders and as a safe preventive measure in young adults at a risk for psychotic conditions (35).

Supplementation with docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) improved learning and memory function in age related cognitive decline (41). However, consumption of fish oil during pregnancy does not improve cognitive or language outcomes in newborns (37) and does not improve intelligence of the kids (42).
Studies of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation and cognition in young children (6) and elderly subjects (7) are inconclusive.

Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation lower cholesterol ( (33) and may reduce recurrence in patients with history of stroke (32). However, it does not lower the risk of cardiovascular disease events (9) Omega-3 may help patients with ulcerative colitis (10), but were ineffective in the treatment of Crohn's disease (13). In adults with rheumatoid arthritis, reduction in NSAID use was reported after omega-3 fatty acid supplementation (14). Omega-3 may lower the magnitude of the body's inflammatory response (1 and can reduce sensitivity to sunburn(20) and ultraviolet radiation (44). Reviews of trials using omega-3 fatty acids have shown possible benefits for patients with cystic fibrosis (21), but no benefit in those with asthma (22). Dietary supplementation with fish oil may help reduce the symptoms of systemic lupus erythematosus (24).
Findings of a systematic review support benefits of polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty acid consumption on insulin sensitivity and adipocyte function (45).

Data on omega-3 fatty acid supplementation for cancer prevention are inconclusive. It may reduce colon cancer risk (11) and improve immune response in patients undergoing colorectal cancer resection (12). But omega-3 fatty acid consumption did not affect cancer outcomes (15) (43) although data from a prospective study suggest its association with reduced occurrence of renal cell carcinoma in women (16). Fish oil supplementation may have an inverse association with risk of breast cancer (36). However, high blood concentration of omega-3 is associated with increased risk of prostate cancer (17). Further studies are needed.
Preliminary findings suggest benefits of fish oil supplementation in increasing efficacy of chemotherapy, improving survival (3, and for maintenance of weight and muscle mass (39) in patients with nonsmall cell lung cancer (NSCLC). An eicosapentanoic acid (EPA)-enriched oral supplement improved tolerability of chemotherapy in patients with advanced colorectal cancer (40).

Omega-3 fatty acids are thought to have anticoagulant effects. But studies show that they do not affect coagulation or platelet function after surgery (19).
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susanC
Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you Lloyd.
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ruthiegirl
Sunday, May 18, 2014, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Are you 100% positive that you're an O? The simple fact that you did poorly on low carb, then felt better on a vegan diet makes me wonder if you're actually an A.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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walk_the_walk
Sunday, May 18, 2014, 7:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hello again Sassrm, think we already 'spoke" over on a Geno Harmonic thread a few days ago…

You're still very new to this who BTD/GTD/SWAMI thing, and I can't help but feel that you're rushing at it all, and consequently, are in a bit of a "tail spin" panic about having to eat meat, worrying about fish (radiation, mercury, PCBs) - safer to sit with the veggies/vegan option…and that is fine for the moment…stop worrying and relax - everything takes time.

Your Avatar denotes O+ Secretor, but you haven't stipulated how Swami "typed" you - I think you sound Explorer- ish - prone to environmental sensitivities and inflammation - of course, if you have been eating vegan for 4 years then likely, during that time, were fuelling your "body-building" with predominantly grain and legume proteins - these are both quite highly inflammatory to O's and may take quite some time to wash through your system…

LISTEN to your GUT (we have TWO ears, but only ONE mouth for a very good reason, and they should be used in that EXACT same proportion!)

Your gut didn't get "broken" overnight, and nor will it be "healed" overnight…you are most certainly in the right place to begin your road to recovery, stick with it, and have patience - Dr. D was already SO far ahead of the game twenty years ago - everything is factored into SWAMI already, it is truly you personal prescription to health…give it, and your healing the time it deserves…

Best Wishes,
Carla


"Walking is man's best medicine" - Hippocrates

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer..." Dune, Frank Herbert
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battle dwarf
Monday, May 19, 2014, 1:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have an O friend who is having a hard time eating meat (though she dose because she feels better when she dose   ) she has had wonderful results with bone and marrow broths once I showed her how to make them because she can make them into veggie soups and still get the nutrients she needs from meat. always been a meat eater myself and I have low sugar issues that grains and other starches greatly aggravate. I had other issues that I did not even realize until I dropped the three nastiest one the bt list (corn, wheat, and soy) when I did I realized how tired and brain fogged I was. I also (after a couple of years of being a good girl) noticed my skin clearing up of some of it's issues.
in short I think you will feel even better than you already do and may find things "fixing" themselves that you did not even notice were off if you can manage some animal proteins.


nothing to do? who has that!?
swami made me an explorer!
married to an AB+ mom to a B+ boy
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aussielady582
Monday, May 19, 2014, 4:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't feel good about fish oil supplements, whole foods are there for a reason, and after trying to be vegetarian and vegan myself in the past, I don't think I would go back, as these diets high in carbs, ie grains, legumes, soy, fructose, caused many problems, and weakening of cells,organs and glands, possibly making me very close to being diabetic. Plus past unbalanced nutrition, contributed to mineral imbalances probably due to not getting the right type of protein and zinc in red meat. I would read more books, such as GAPS syndrome diet, and I heard of another which I've not read, 'The Vegetarian Myth'.
I do know some type O people who seem fine on a vegetarian and/or vegan diet, but it would be helpful to track them over a long period of time. It may be best to just see how YOU do and how you feel, if any changes happen with your own health, weight, sleeping patterns, hormone balance, blood sugar levels, skin/hair health, energy/vitality levels, muscle tone, changes in bowel habits, etc.
One must take care, because once the organs weaken, it then becomes hard to digest animal proteins, as the enzymes can go down due to lack of protein which some people can't absorb from plant foods.
I eat vegetables three times a day at present, as could not feel well starting day with grains or fruit, my glands weren't getting nutrients needed from mostly animal foods, including fats. I also can't eat oats or quinoa, as I don't think I absorb anything from these foods, they may have provided some fibre though.
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sassrm
Tuesday, May 20, 2014, 12:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter
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Ruthiegirl I am an O. I've done all of the proper testing.
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sassrm
Tuesday, May 20, 2014, 12:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter
Early Spring: Awareness, desire.
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Age: 43
This is great information and opinions. I need to settle into this new start of SWAMI and figure things out. I know I'll have more questions and concerns.and will be utilizing the forums.
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aussielady582
Wednesday, May 21, 2014, 1:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Be kind to everyone; be persistent with health!
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It can be hard with so many different opinions/thoughts on nutrition, so one may need to just listen to their own body, if fish suits, then just stick with fish.  Some don't need fish at all, depends on what is going on inside, with the organs/glands and how one's body uses/absorbs nutrients from foods.
Sometimes it is due to the weakness in function of the pancreas (Battle Dwarf's comment above), and so trying to eat meat may just stress out this organ more.... there is already a lot of pancreatic cancer in the world. Plus there is the fat in meat, and extra oils/fats used to cook the meat in (as I tried yesterday).
I also read about mercury used in grain production, so it is not just tuna one needs to think of with mercury.  And I already know my cells have too much mercury (from hair analysis sample done May of 2013). I wish I had taken out all grains many years ago.
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jayneeo
Wednesday, May 21, 2014, 2:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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sassrm, I was an O vegetarian for many years…(a lot f us were) and the single best thing I ever did (finally, with the BTD) was quit wheat. So please do that for yourself! My years of asthma disappeared. I believe u could be healthy as a pescatarian.
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