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Hassanna
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 7:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've been having the reoccurring issue of trying to get my vegetarian Type O clients to begin eating meat.  They all have various reasons for not eating the more complex meats; they just don't like meat (it grosses them out), some were raised vegan and that's all they know, some don't want to eat another living thing, and some have been vegetarian for so long for no concrete reason.  Some eat fish, and some do not.  
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to help these individuals slowly integrate more complex meats into their diet?  I was thinking broth would be a good start.  But I'd love to hear some ideas.  Thanks!
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PCUK-Positive
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 8:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think i would determine their geno type first. that would mean you could introduce meat or broth at different ;levels.

if you do start to introduce meat perhaps Turkey would be a good start. good for all types etc. and in small amounts.

explaining the stomach acid situation in detail seems to help a bit too.

if it was easy everyone would be doing it


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yaeli
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 9:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
perhaps Turkey would be a good start. good for all types etc. and in small amounts.


It may be easier to use in the beginning minced turkey and prepare patties, meatballs, etc. Turkey is relatively very light and is very nutritious.



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Andrea AWsec
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 11:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Give them a list of ethically companies like Wellness meats to order from.

Let them know who much they need to eat in concrete terms. Show them with a diagram.


Once they eat meat they will feel so good that they will not believe the difference. Share a testimonial about someone who has recovered from illness.

Ultimately it is their choice, you can only be a guide.

My sister  a die hard vegan began eating meat at 50 after 25 years of me pestering her. She feels much better and proclaims it when ever she gets a chance.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 12:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'd be very cautious in how you approach them. I'm assuming that these type O vegetarians are adults, and you can't "make them" do anything they don't want to do. What you have to do is educate them so they'll want to make changes on their own.

For the person who's a vegetarian "just because I've been one for years" you need to teach about individuality. Point out that vegetarianism is very healthy for As, so whoever thought vegetarian diets were healthy were probably speaking/writing from personal experience. Teach how Os need animal protein and fats to thrive. Once there's a compelling reason to eat meat, and "no real reason" not to, the conversion should be easy. That's when you can introduce the helpful hints others have shared about specific ways to re-introduce meat into the diet.

Those who "were raised vegan and that's all they know" or "don't like the idea of eating other living creatures" will be much harder to convince. It may help to point out the food chain; how cats and dogs and owls eat other animals to survive, and as humans we're meant to do that as well. It may help to point out that something always dies when we eat- a spinach plant is very much alive until we chop it up and put it into a salad. Carrots are literally pulled up by the roots for our consumption. Who's to judge that a cow is "more alive" than a field of beans?

In the end, you can only educate and encourage. If they're not ready to make changes, they won't.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Lloyd
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 12:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Hassanna

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to help these individuals slowly integrate more complex meats into their diet?  I was thinking broth would be a good start.  But I'd love to hear some ideas.  Thanks!


Broth is something that has been suggested on this forum many, many times for reintegration.

Overcoming a psychological barrier is difficult. Overcoming a moral objection is nearly impossible.

Creating dishes where the meat is 'hidden' is another consideration. And, fish is not a bad thing.

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Adam
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 1:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Hassanna
my vegetarian Type O clients


I would assume you are an ND?  Or a nutritionist who follows Dr. D's principles?  First of all, why did they come to you for advice?  Are they suffering some sort of illness?  What are their ages?  I'll tell you from experience, just like Andrea's sister, I was a stubborn young person very skeptical of this way of eating.  Over time, however, I've had to learn to accept it, because without it, I go downhill fast and recover a lot slower than when I was younger.
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Andrea AWsec
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 2:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think we have to hear something 7 times before we are able to integrate it into our psyche.

My sister had an abusive relationship-- for years we told her to leave him but one day a priest told her that what her husband was doing was not love-- suddenly she was getting divorced.

It was as if we never said it-- timing is everything for us.

A vegetarian O who feels fit will not change-- but one that does not will. Like Adam said why are they seeing you in the first place?

We are funny creatures who often can not see beyond ourselves and get all out of emotional balance. Food is the first place that can help us get back in balance.

Many O vegetarians are really startchitarians eating carbs to fill in the diet and keep the brain  feeling good.    Food addiction is involved here as well.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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kitari
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 4:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I remember reading about the Dalai Lama following his physicians’ instructions, he reluctantly returned to eating meat and regained his health.


and sometimes people will be willing to eat fish before beef or poultry and cod is very good for O's.

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ruthiegirl
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I also want to point out that I have some type O vegetarian friends who are rather healthy, all things considered. They focus on low GI foods and  work to keep their insulin levels stable. They eat very little grain and sugar, and what grains they do eat are whole. They do eat fruit but are careful to keep portions down, and balance the sugars with fats and proteins. They eat lots of veggies, nuts, beans, eggs, and whole milk dairy products (no lowfat or nonfat dairy.) I've managed to convince them to cut back on wheat and corn- they're already avoiding potatoes due to its high GI. They make no attempt to avoid any kind of nut or legume, as they need the variety without meat or fish in their diets.

I'm sure they'd be even healthier if they ate meat, but they're far healthier than most people eating "the Standard American Diet." An approach like that might be a good compromise if your type O clients aren't willing to eat meat just yet.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Adam
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Quoted from kitari
sometimes people will be willing to eat fish before beef or poultry


Very true.  I have a starchitarian A+ daughter who refuses to eat meat/poultry, but has said on occasion to me that she might consider eating seafood one day.
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Lola
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Quoted Text
vegetarian Type O clients to begin eating meat


perhaps reading other x vegan O stories help build an educated opinion

http://www.uoregon.edu/~sshapiro/Pemphigus/AboutSteve.html
steve s story


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Hassanna
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 7:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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WOW!  Thank you all so very much for your replies!  All of your tips were incredibly insightful and helpful.  
I live in a community where severe obesity is a rampant epidemic.  Many of my clients suffer from diabetes and heart disease and have been eager to absorb the knowledge of eating right.  Those clients are the ones who are most open to changing their lifestyles.  You are all very correct in that the Type O vegetarians who claim they "feel great" are the ones that I have the most difficulty with.  They may have the claims, but their body type (metabolism), skin, and intestinal digestion tell a different story.      

"Give them a list of ethically companies like Wellness meats to order from." as suggested by Andrea AWsec is a fantastic idea for those who do not want to eat meats that have been raised and killed inhumanely.  

To Kitari, thank you for sharing about the Dalai Lama!  I would like to gather some more information and facts about that specific topic to share with my clients who are Buddhist.

"Overcoming a psychological barrier is difficult. Overcoming a moral objection is nearly impossible."  Lloyd, this is very true.  And I also have come to the realization that I'm not here to "convert" the unwilling.  All I can do is present them with the knowledge and information that I have, and it is up to them whether or not they will abide.  

And yes, I have been GenoTyping many of my clients.  But just getting them consciously aware of the BTD has been my first goal.  Many of these people have been living off SPAM and copious amounts of pork and white rice their whole lives!

Thank you Lola, for providing the link!

And Thank you all again for all your input!
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Lola
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san j
Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 8:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Great thread - great answers all round.  

Depending on what the reasons are, a grill comes in very, very handy in these cases.
I was a vegetarian for awhile as a teenager, and, though I was thinking about eating some meat again, it was a backyard bbq that pushed me over the edge - on impulse - into omnivority again! There is something very primal in the olfaction of fire-roasting red meat; it goes directly to a prehistoric limbic place in collective memory, and, for an O particularly, could be more difficult to resist than just any old turkey sandwich.    Those gastric juices respond to the olfactory call, adding their vote to the mix, in a person who's been reading/thinking about trying meat again. One taste and...
Back in the Saddle, babe.  

PS. You can make sure the "vegetarian alternative" is particularly bland/ mushy/ uninteresting.


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aussielady582
Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 5:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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each will make their own choices, meats as most animal flesh leaves uric acid residue - much which ends up in muscles and joints, some people, esp as they age are not able to digest, let alone assimilate nutrients from cooked or even raw animal flesh, or eggs, or even dairy, if ones' liver, gall bladder, pancreas, or bowel/colon is weak or toxic. It also uses up a lot of water and vitamins to digest and slows down cleansing of the colon, in some people.  There are many very healthy people on vegetarian and vegan diets, even raw food vegan diets; it also depends on a healthy digestive system and nervous/endocrine system which is involved in digestion. and a balance of plant foods in sufficient variety.
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yaeli
Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 6:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from aussielady582
some people, esp as they age are not able to digest, let alone assimilate nutrients from cooked or even raw animal flesh, or eggs, or even dairy, if ones' liver, gall bladder, pancreas, or bowel/colon is weak or toxic.
Are you referring to type O people?

Quoted from aussielady582
There are many very healthy people on vegetarian and vegan diets
Are they type O people? Of what age? A healthy O type vegatarian's health may crash at a later age. I've experienced this personally.The purpose of BTD/GTD/SWAMI is to build a good health for life.



Revision History (2 edits)
yaeli  -  Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 10:45am
yaeli  -  Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 6:27am
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AKArtlover
Thursday, April 18, 2013, 12:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Steve is on IfHI2003 and 2005 cds and is a very good speaker. I think him telling his story would loosen a vegetarian model a bit, especially if one is in ill health. They are packed with great info. In the past, they have been on sale for about 1/2 off every now and then. http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED082 search IFHI for the others.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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marjorie
Thursday, April 18, 2013, 1:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'd be very cautious in how you approach them. I'm assuming that these type O vegetarians are adults, and you can't "make them" do anything they don't want to do. What you have to do is educate them so they'll want to make changes on their own.

For the person who's a vegetarian "just because I've been one for years" you need to teach about individuality. Point out that vegetarianism is very healthy for As, so whoever thought vegetarian diets were healthy were probably speaking/writing from personal experience. Teach how Os need animal protein and fats to thrive. Once there's a compelling reason to eat meat, and "no real reason" not to, the conversion should be easy. That's when you can introduce the helpful hints others have shared about specific ways to re-introduce meat into the diet.

Those who "were raised vegan and that's all they know" or "don't like the idea of eating other living creatures" will be much harder to convince. It may help to point out the food chain; how cats and dogs and owls eat other animals to survive, and as humans we're meant to do that as well. It may help to point out that something always dies when we eat- a spinach plant is very much alive until we chop it up and put it into a salad. Carrots are literally pulled up by the roots for our consumption. Who's to judge that a cow is "more alive" than a field of beans?

In the end, you can only educate and encourage. If they're not ready to make changes, they won't.


Nicely said, Ruthie.
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marjorie
Thursday, April 18, 2013, 1:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from kitari
I remember reading about the Dalai Lama following his physicians’ instructions, he reluctantly returned to eating meat and regained his health.


and sometimes people will be willing to eat fish before beef or poultry and cod is very good for O's.


Yes, I remember reading this as well. Fish is a good alternative, IMO. Cod is amazing and just go gentle with them.

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yaeli
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Who's to judge that a cow is "more alive" than a field of beans?
The slaughter and bloodshed is a big problem for some, I reckon especially in youth.



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Seraffa
Thursday, April 18, 2013, 5:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from marjorie


Yes, I remember reading this as well. Fish is a good alternative, IMO. Cod is amazing and just go gentle with them.



Ha ha -- I was thinking of you on this thread, Marjorie!!

I'm sorry I missed this thread yesterday.
Some people, when needing a few "holes" punctured in their existing belief systems, will not know quite how to function as they did previously in other areas of their life (plus peers that believe as they do), and cant apprehend change as well. Main thing is to give the subliminal message that humans are not inheirently evil creatures, just as animals are not inheirently evil creatures.

Unless someone wants to genetically modify our race in vitrio into a whole worldful of A's (thank you very much!!   We all have had about as much choice in choosing our blood and genotypes as T-Rexes and Brontosauruses has choice over who was going to be meat eaters or vegetarians!

Its interesting to note that the types who are naturally meant to be more vigorous (O, B, A Explorer) have a wide range of meats and if subjected to stress in vitrio by their mothers, are set up to eat meat the rest of their lives in order to function well.

In young people, though, I see many avid smokers amongst O and B vegetarians -- the stimulants and toxins are an artificial form of energy for them because they do not ingest what they should be ingesting.

The D'Adamo example of healing in his books is quite dramatic evidence to present before those who have a chemical addiction, and will not eat meat!


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Seraffa
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Quoted from yaeli
The slaughter and bloodshed is a big problem for some, I reckon especially in youth.



Yes, Buddhists have the most problem with it as well as any religion believing in human souls'reincarnation back into animal bodies. The idea of eating your dead cousin right out of the stockyard must be a nightmare to them. Curious, though, that a thorough study of cannibalistic tribes in Papua, New Guinea,before the introduction of Christianity, found that in their nature-based religion, human meat eating was not done for sport, nor taste, but when an "evil" member of the had to be slain to prevent further evil from happening. The human carcass was simply viewed as a viable source of protein for the tribe that would have otherwise been left rotting on the jungle floor.


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Sun Pisc. Moon Capr. ASC Virg. N.Node Gem. S. Node Sagg.

Mortal life is a stay in a vast hospital ward.
(Eastern Orthodoxy +)

Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential. (Churchill)

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aussielady582
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To answer Yaeli's questions, I am referring to any or all blood types as i've come across many people with all sorts of digestive and general health problems, so all blood types who were all eating sad diet, ie lots of animal and dairy based protein. The healthiest-looking people I've met in person are definitely the one's on a plant diet, the best skin, hair, teeth and most energy - esp the ones on more whole food type diet, not the processed foods.
yes, you're right, a vegetarian's diet may crash at some stage, but  would it be more than non vegetarians, or people on 100% plant diets - this includes the many people on high or 100% raw diets, sometimes it is not the diet, but the balance in the diet that needs work or adjustment.  One person on a plant diet may have an orange or banana for breakfast, french fries for lunch with dark chocolate, rice and cooked vegetables for dinner and have problems ie with energy or mental concentration - or due to lack of variety.  The raw foodist may start the day with a fresh green or vegie juice, have a green smoothie for lunch with, a blended raw soup and home-made dehyrated spelt bread for dinner and be feeling fine - due to the higher fibre content and positive effect on stomach hcl acid and enzymes that living juices and smoothies add.  A vegetarian may have eggs, dairy, etc.  So every one is doing something different, one person may do a Bikram yoga class a day and manage their daily or emotional stresses very well which in turn may mean the digestive and nervous systems work at optimum, the person on a plant-based diet may not make the time or have the time to do any exercise, so this could impact their health and it may not even be just what they eat that contributes to how one feels or general health. modern lifestyles are beneath lots of health issues, as are unresolved emotional and psychological issues/problems.
I'm an O, and I never felt good even when I was eating meat, or fish, or eggs; it made me feel worse and I had more health issues due to the animal flesh proteins and lack of fresh fibre and living foods.  since making a fresh vegetable juice every day, and fresh green smoothies, I am feeling so much better, with the some of the easiest & healthiest bowel motions I've ever had.  To me, it's about making sure the daily intake is balanced, ie fresh whole foods prepared at home, including some sprouted foods, seeds, nuts, grain, nut milk, fresh fruit (low gi suits me best).  And being aware of food sensitivites, for me this means  tropical fruits, and too much fruit in general tips me off balance, whereas sprouted grains, seeds, nuts, tahini, vegetables (esp greens and firm hard ones) make me feel great and are rejuveniting my cells!  plus eating earlier in the day and less snacking is helping, plus I fast, and try not to eat after around 5pm.
It's good that BTD/swami/GT helps so many, It's equally good that macrobiotic, vegetarian, vegan and raw foodist diet also works as does advice from Ayurvedic drs and TCM practitioners, esp if the person take a wholistic & proactive approach to their health, finding the right type of exercise that suits them and balance in terms of lifestyle. Sometimes just eating and sleeping at regular times helps a person feel better.
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marjorie
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Well I think it is all about individuality, time, place, context.

I was doing great with alot of meat in my diet for a long time,but within the last year, I have slowly noticed my body feels better with just fish in general. I do feel that I might be lacking something though. I have been exhausted for last week and it could be I need iron, so hard to tell with everything going on in my life.

I also think we can get enough protein in plant based diets, but it is hard to do in practicality terms and when I am so busy plus financially strapped. I need to eat like an enormous amount of veggies, to be filled up.

Definitely feel different since I am limiting my protein consumption, but noticing that nuts and olive oil do not feel well for me either. I almost think that eating late is not a good idea which I am trying to work on...so many factors to take into consideration.
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