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The Problem with Salt...  This thread currently has 1,486 views. Print Print Thread
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Vivian
Friday, February 22, 2013, 3:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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On my Swami, Tamari (Wheat Free) is a neutral.  And I used it for the first time yesterday to make some vegan fried rice (delicious BTW).  But it packs alot of salt.  The nutritional label says 860 g of sodium for 1 TBSP.  I did use more than one TBSP.

Also, vinager is an avoid for me.  But, Umeboshi Plum Vinager is a neutral.  So I went to the health food store to check it out...I have never heard of this type of vinager before.  Wow!!! 1050 g. of sodium for 1 TBSP!!!  

So my questions is..... although the Tamari & Umeboshi Plum Vinager are neutrals for me, is all this sodium going "to work itself out" in my body because it's a neutral, or is it going to undermine me losing weight through water retention or some other reason?

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ruthiegirl
Friday, February 22, 2013, 3:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Not everybody need to keep their sodium intake down. In all the studies showing health problems from salt intake, it only affected some of the study population. Additionally, none of those studies (to my knowledge) differentiated between different forms of sodium. The people eating the most sodium in these studies tend to get it via processed foods that contain MSG and other chemicals. Nor do any studies compare people's reactions to MSG, iodized salt (which contains corn-based dextrose, which is toxic for most people), unrefined sea salt, or salt from naturally fermented foods such as tamari and ume plum vinegar. They just looked at total sodium intake, not the source of the sodium or what the rest of the diet looks like.

Some people may get bloated and/or high blood pressure from eating too many potato chips, but it may not be the salt that's to blame. It may be from the potatoes themselves, or the partially hydrogenated oils they're fried in, or it may be from the sodium PLUS the other factors combined. Nobody's really studied this.

So, you may be one of those people who doesn't react badly to salt. Or, you may only react badly to salt if it's in combination with other factors- and if you're following SWAMI carefully, those other factors will no longer be happening. Or, you may need to be extremely careful with serving sizes when you use tamari and ume plum vinegar.

You don't need to use a whole tablespoon per serving- both are very flavorful and half a teaspoon to a teaspoonful may be enough. The ume plum vinegar (which is really a brine, not a true vinegar) has a very strong taste. I've used a few drops to my plate to add flavor to a dish- I'm not even sure if I'd use a whole tablespoon when making enough for my whole family! If you're used to eating a low-sodium diet, you'll probably find ume plum vinegar "too salty" to use in large amounts anyway.

Also remember that lemon and lime juices are great vinegar substitutes in salad dressings.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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2degreespisces
Friday, February 22, 2013, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Are you sure there are 860 grams of sodium in one TBSP?
It seems impossible to pack all that weight, in sodium no less, in one simple TBSP.


Happiness is the highest form of wisdom.

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Adam
Friday, February 22, 2013, 4:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 2degreespisces
Are you sure there are 860 grams of sodium in one TBSP?
It seems impossible to pack all that weight, in sodium no less, in one simple TBSP.


San-J Tamari Gluten Free Soy Sauce contains 980mg of sodium in 1 tablespoon.

http://www.san-j.com/product_info.asp?id=1
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Adam
Friday, February 22, 2013, 4:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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On the PROP Taster Status, I am a Slight-Taster.  In order to taste my food, it seems like I have to add more salt/tamari than normal.  I, too, am one of those having trouble losing weight on the SWAMI, and I wonder if sodium is an issue.  I recently did an experiment where I went a few days really low on sodium, not changing anything else about my eating habits, and I lost a couple of pounds in those few days.  And, I urinated more than normal, so it was water weight, of course.  Now I'm back to using sodium like before and my weight crept back up.
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Spring
Friday, February 22, 2013, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My body does not like a lot of salt. Besides, I don't like salty foods. Other than stress, salt will raise my blood pressure quicker than anything. It will also cause me to retain fluid very quickly. Adam, many people use strong spices to flavor tasteless foods. I use tons of herbs and spices! And I am a super taster!!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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ABJoe
Friday, February 22, 2013, 6:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vivian
Tamari (Wheat Free) ...  The nutritional label says 860 g of sodium for 1 TBSP.
Umeboshi Plum Vinager ... Wow!!! 1050 g. of sodium for 1 TBSP!!!

So my questions is..... although the Tamari & Umeboshi Plum Vinager are neutrals for me, is all this sodium going "to work itself out" in my body because it's a neutral, or is it going to undermine me losing weight through water retention or some other reason?

First of all, both of these measures are mg. or milligrams.  They are high salt for someone who eats low sodium.

The key for any individual is to balance the sodium / potassium to maintain proper water balance inside and outside the cells to keep a good nutrient flow into and waste out of cells.  

My guess is that while these are good flavoring agents, they aren't something you would want (or be able) to use in high quantity all of the time.  

I try to use beneficial spices in place of high sodium "flavor enhancers".


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Adam
Friday, February 22, 2013, 8:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
My body does not like a lot of salt. Besides, I don't like salty foods. Other than stress, salt will raise my blood pressure quicker than anything. It will also cause me to retain fluid very quickly. Adam, many people use strong spices to flavor tasteless foods. I use tons of herbs and spices! And I am a super taster!!


That's funny... my son is A+ non-secretor Super-taster.  He doesn't like salt and uses tons of herbs and spices.
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JJR
Friday, February 22, 2013, 9:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think Joe summed it up well.  A lot of people have to be careful with salt.  It can cause High BP, and I would imagine other issues.  Some of us need more of it.  

I personally haven't eaten Tamari or soy sauce in a long time for other reasons.  But yeah, it's salty.  I know I had to let my tastebuds adjust to eating foods that are less salty.  When I used to eat out all the time and processed foods, you get used to that saltiness.  I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to or not, and no judgement here.  But eating more pure is a different flavor profile than all that.  You start to taste the food for what it is.  And eventually you feel like you don't need salt.  I am a prop taster though, so I feel for the non tasters.  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Victoria
Saturday, February 23, 2013, 2:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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As others have said, Vivian, that's a lot of Tamari and a lot of Ume plum vinegar.  I love both those condiments and used to use them a lot before they went off my food list with the SWAMI.  For one person, I used maybe 3/4 tsp of Tamari at a meal.  And at those times when I used Ume, it would be something like 1/4 tsp, mixed with some other liquid to spread it further.  Both those have powerful flavors so shouldn't need a lot.  You can mix either with Extra Virgin Olive Oil, for example, or with lemon/lime juice, etc.



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san j
Saturday, February 23, 2013, 2:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Possum
Saturday, February 23, 2013, 3:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vivian
So my questions is..... although the Tamari & Umeboshi Plum Vinager are neutrals for me, is all this sodium going "to work itself out" in my body because it's a neutral, or is it going to undermine me losing weight through water retention or some other reason?
How was your weight the next day? Had you gained/not lost? That would be the true test?!
If I have even a pinch of salt (always only mineral salt) I can taste it & without fail I gain at least a lb overnight

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2degreespisces
Saturday, February 23, 2013, 3:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Adam


San-J Tamari Gluten Free Soy Sauce contains 980mg of sodium in 1 tablespoon.

http://www.san-j.com/product_info.asp?id=1



As it said, in the opening post, "g" or "gram", I thought I'd check

Milligrams or "mg" seem much more probable to me, that's why I asked the question.


Happiness is the highest form of wisdom.

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Andrea AWsec
Saturday, February 23, 2013, 4:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Not all salt is the same.

  


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Vivian
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 1:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Possum, I was losing weight steadily, and after consuming the Tamari, my weight remained the same the next morning.  But when I looked at my food diary, I noticed that I also had a scoop of brown rice protein powder in my juice that day.  So I'm not sure what it was.  Everything else was the same.

Can protein powder make you gain weight or prevent you from losing weight?  Or does it have alot of sodium?  I bought the juice in the health food store so I don't have the nutrition information for the brown rice protein they put in it.

Oh, sorry about the typo about the g in the sodium, it should have been mg.


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Vivian
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 1:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Another question about salt...  

If you have salt cravings, does that mean your body is deficient in some mineral or something?  Anyone know?  I have cravings for salty foods everyday.  
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san j
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 1:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There are factors in day-to-day weight gain and loss, besides food you ingested.
For instance, there are hormonal fluctuations that influence water retention and the tissues' actual assimilation of nutrients. There's exercise, which influences the burning of calories, the replacement of fat with muscle, and perspiration.
Definitely do not bog yourself down in such micromanagement; rather, watch your weight in terms of your food-diary over the course of, say, a week, and see what happens. Often, patterns will be better explained that way.


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ABJoe
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vivian
If you have salt cravings, does that mean your body is deficient in some mineral or something?  Anyone know?

When I have salt cravings, I need iodine...


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JJR
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 9:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Or maybe it could be a sign of low BP.  Or adrenal insufficiency.  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Possum
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 11:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Or a zinc deficiency? But that is more to do with not tasting food/having an appetite...

Vivian if you stalled on weight loss next day after consistently losing before then it does suggest some fluid retention but as you say, could just as easily be from the protein powder...

Only way to really know, is to repeat the day's food & conditions, without the salt, but with the protein powder?!

Was it whey? That gives me problems...
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Vivian
Monday, February 25, 2013, 1:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The protein powder was brown rice.  I looked at the nutrition label before putting it in the juice and brown rice was the only ingredient.  

Is it harder to lose weight if you take protein powder?  Do you have to workout harder to burn it off?
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Vivian
Monday, February 25, 2013, 1:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok...to recap, with the salt, it could be low iodine, low BP, adrenal insufficiency, or zinc insufficiency.

I know I am under tremendous stress at work, and it is more than current stress.  It is years of accumulated stress upon me, particularly the past 13 years.  I think this may point to an adrenal insufficiency.  How can I supplement for this?  

With regards to the iodine, I have begun taking Bladderwrack which has iodine, perhaps I can increase that a little and see how I feel.  

I may need to get a mineral supplement for the zinc.  I am not taking any vitamins or minerals at this time.  Just the bladderwrack & B12.
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, February 25, 2013, 3:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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1.  GREAT response, Ruthie!

2.  Off topic, but it is so great to post here instead of Facebook, as when I hit ENTER, it actually just puts paragraph marks instead of POSTING *lol*.  Back to the topic:

3.  I use sea salt on EVERYTHING, but everything I eat is homemade, whole foods, not processed food with sodium added.  I agree with Ruthie that there are differences in the TYPE of sodium.  If you are using natural sea salt on whole foods, you are fine, unless you are in the small percentage of the population that is truly sensitive to salt.  I think it is a travesty, what a bad rap salt in general has gotten.  It is very similar to how fat was vilified for the longest time.  Again, I add a LOT of sea salt to virtually EVERYTHING and, in bloodwork, my sodium is fine and on the low end of normal, if anything.  This O nonnie loves salt.

IMPORTANT RELATED NOTE:  I've posted about the following before, but most commercial brands of salt are really to be AVOIDED because, brace yourself, the manufacturers add CORN SUGAR, usually in the form of "dextrose".  No, I am not kidding--I wish I were.  Just another example of why it is vitally important to read labels, BTD/GTD peeps!  That habit is your best friend in this way of eating (a.k.a., diet--a word I like but some recoil at).  Brands like Mortons and other mainstream ones all add dextrose.  That is the main reason I buy sea salt instead.  Oh, and I love sea salt.  That's the other reason.  


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Spring
Monday, February 25, 2013, 3:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I like sea salt a lot better than whatever that other stuff is! I actually love sea salt.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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aussielady582
Monday, February 25, 2013, 4:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I like sea salt or himalayan mountain salt, I think most of the sodium issues come from processed or fast foods which often use common table salt, or just eating too much in general.
If ones prepares most of their own foods, should be fine.
Also, some types of people need to include salty tastes in accordance with Ayurvedic philosophy, ie the 'vata' type of person, so I do like umeboshi plums regularly, a little ume vinegar from time to time, mostly just a little sea salt which alkalises brown rice if I cook some brown rice. I also use the sea veggies which provides salty tastes to keep me in balance.
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