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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Supp Right For Your Type  ›  Epiphany re: typeO immune, or not?
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Epiphany re: typeO immune, or not?  This thread currently has 872 views. Print Print Thread
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BHealthy
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 12:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have had allergies since I was 8 years old.  Most of the time they manifested as sneezing, runny nose, post nasal drip and itchy eyes.  I took shots and pills which controlled the symptoms.  I am allergic to dust, mold, and cats which are around 24/7.

When I started eating 'clean' 3 years ago my allergies got better except around cats, which I avoid whenever possible, and to which I still had a severe reaction.

At that time I also started taking whole food supplements -- not 'vitamin pills' but foods like turmeric, garlic, medicinal mushrooms, blue-green algae, chia seeds, pine pollen, olive leaf and hibiscus tea.  

Whenever I read about something that would increase the effectiveness of my immune system, I took it, figuring it would help me avoid cancer, dementia, arthritis, respiratory infections, and whatever else might afflict me.

I have had migraines since I was 18.  They are primarily food related and I am very careful when I introduce new foods/supplements in case they trigger an attack.  Whatever doesn't cause a migraine is added to my 'arsenal'.

Over the last 3 years I went through several detox periods until this past summer when I thought I had finally straightened my diet out. My migraines were down from 21/28 days to 4/28 days, my allergies were much better, and various other parts of my life had vastly improved (I have a list of these 25+ item which I will share with anyone who's interested).

But...I had developed a persistent irritation in my throat, my eyes burned constantly, and my energy level was not where I wanted it to be so I sought a local naturopath who introduced me to SWAMI.

While I waited for my SWAMI code to arrive I followed a VLC diet -- no sugar, starch, fat or dairy -- and stopped all supplements and my throat got much better.  When I got my SWAMI I assumed the improvement was due to eliminating dairy which my SWAMI says I can't have.

Through SWAMI I learned that Type Os have an overactive immune system which might protect them from the flu but made them susceptible to, among other things, allergies (check), environmental toxins (check), and arthritis (not yet).

For some reason the implication didn't sink in and for the past three months I continued to consume massive amounts of immune boosting foods.  I even increased my intake of some of them.

Then, two weeks ago, the irritation in my throat became unbearable, preventing me from falling asleep, waking me up at night, and not responding to either coughing or drinking.  The joints on my right thumb and finger became stiff and hurt when I tried to bend them. My eyes had gotten worse.

At first I blamed SWAMI; then, I started thinking about what I was doing now that I wasn't doing before SWAMI that might possibly have been responsible.  I listed every food I had added or eliminated.

Then it hit me: all these immune boosting foods were making an over-active immune system  even more over-active!  They were causing me to react even more severely to things that were already a problem.  The irritation in my throat and eyes was probably an allergic reaction and the pain in my fingers was probably arthritis.

Instantly, I eliminated all blue-green algae, chlorella, kombucha, blueberry, and elderberry.  I figured that a cold once a year was better than constant discomfort every day.  The only immune affecting substances I left in  my diet were immune modulators, hoping they would calm everything down.

The pain in my fingers went away totally in two days, my throat is almost healed, and my eyes feel much better.  

So...is my theory correct, that Type O's should avoid any immune building foods/supplements?

If they should, then why do many of the NAP O supplements contain chlorella, blueberry, echinacea, and elderberry?  





"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."

Revision History (3 edits)
BHealthy  -  Friday, December 7, 2012, 5:55pm
BHealthy  -  Thursday, December 6, 2012, 2:36am
BHealthy  -  Thursday, December 6, 2012, 2:34am
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 1:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I don't think it's accurate to say that all O's should avoid all immune-boosters all the time. It's all about balance. In your specific case, your immune system was over-reactive and you needed to give your immune system a break.  In other situations, people might benefit from specific immunity boosters taken at specific times. Echinacea may be OK for a day or two at the beginning of a cold, but not taken daily over a period of months.

I take elderberry during the winter and eat blueberries a few times a week. I use teeny amounts of chlorella in an effort to detox from mercury. I drank kombucha once in the past few years (it's a black dot for me.) I haven't bought any products containing echinacea in years.

I'm glad you figured out what's happening with your own body. I'm curious to see if the migraines go away now.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Christopher1
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 1:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I get a pink eye when I take too much reishi or andrographis - especially woad root!

Why? I don't know...
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prunella
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 1:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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BHealthy, my inquiring mind thinks your questions are good.

I recall being quite unwell in the years when I took a  lot of echinacea. Was the echinacea the trigger for worsening symptoms I was trying to cure?
Had not yet been Dx'd with autoimmune.  Not sure whether the echinacea was the chicken or the egg.

And where would ARA6  fit in for a type O with autoimmune issues? I think there was discussion of this a while back.  I have been taking the ARA6 powder and recently became very "autoimmune-y"--ie chills, fatigue,dry eyes-- although I have been also doing the fatigue protocol and the intestinal protocol.
Perhaps it was an aggravation of old symptoms.




The sun, with all those planets around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.

Galileo
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Victoria
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 2:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Echinacea is an immune booster.
ARA 6 is an immune modulator.

(at least, as I understand it)  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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BHealthy
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 3:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
... people might benefit from specific immunity boosters taken at specific times. Echinacea may be OK for a day or two at the beginning of a cold, but not taken daily over a period of months.
Exactly.  When I was researching which foods were boosters versus which ones were modulators both echinacea and elderberry came up as "use when needed".  In other words, use to treat, not to prevent.

Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'm curious to see if the migraines go away now.
Yes, that would be nice!

I've also stopped taking the fermented cod and skate liver oils.  If you recall, I started getting many more migraines around mid-September and when I looked back on what I had changed at that time, it was the addition of those oils.  

While they didn't affect me immediately (or I would have stopped them immediately), it might have been cumulative and I didn't make the connection. Too much yogurt (or acidophilus) has always given me a migraine so the fermentation of the oil may be a trigger for me. I've never been able to take any probiotic product.

I've just ordered Dr. D's Polyflora O, which doesn't have any acidophilus in it, hoping it won't give me a migraine.  However, I have trouble with many of his supplements -- I'm pretty sure I can't take Deflect or ARA6 -- so I'll be trying the Polyflora with trepidation.  

Once I've been migraine-free for 2 weeks I will try Deflect and ARA6 again, now that I'm not overdosing on immune builders, and see if they have the same effect.  I suspect it's the larch that bothers me which means most of the NAP supps are off limits for me.  The jury is still out on Trehalose.  

Is there a list of immune modulators / adaptogens anywhere?  Are garlic, onions and parsley boosters or modulators?  I'd really hate to give them up....


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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BHealthy
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 3:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from prunella
I have been also doing the fatigue protocol and the intestinal protocol.
Whenever I try and do too many things at once, I never know what's causing the problem, if I have one.



"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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BHealthy
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 4:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I use teeny amounts of chlorella in an effort to detox from mercury.
It worries me that I had to give this up as I was using it to detox the tuna I have for lunch every day.  I wonder how much tuna I can safely eat now.  All my mercury filling were removed years ago.



"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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prunella
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 11:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I know what BHealthy means about not taking too many new things at once. I usually don't because I want to isolate the variables. But this time I just plunged in because both issues were overwhelming to me. I think both are improving since I posted.




The sun, with all those planets around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.

Galileo
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Jane
Friday, December 7, 2012, 4:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Wow, this post made a real difference to me.  I've been feeling lousy for months now, stuffy, constant post nasal drip, etc.  I thought it might be eggs because I was allergic to egg whites as a kid.  I had a sinus infection right before travelling to Louisiana to visit my son's family and my dil is pregnant so I got an antibiotic hoping to clear it up.  I've been taking Proberry caps, at least 2/day for years!  Oddly, even before I saw your post, I didn't take anything on Sunday and I felt better so I thought maybe whatever "cold" I had was finally clearing up.  I think I've been really overdosing on things to ramp up my immune system!  Colloidal silver, proberry, Airborne plus Zyrtec and Mucinex when I need it.  I'm also taking my usual Deflectl, Polyflora, COQ 10, Glycoscia, Catchol.  
I've stopped the Proberry for a day or 2 now and let's see if the symptoms let up and then I'll reintroduce it just when I really need it.  I'd appreciate any feedback.
Jane
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ABJoe
Friday, December 7, 2012, 5:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jane
Wow, this post made a real difference to me.  ... I think I've been really overdosing on things to ramp up my immune system!

I'd appreciate any feedback.

In the protocols, Dr. D.'s recommendation is to take things for a month or two, the stop and evaluate further need.  I have used some supplements for a year or two, but usually taper down to a point where I don't need them except once in a while.

Quoted from Dr. D.
Anything we put into a complex system that is not needed reduces robustness!



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Amazone I.
Friday, December 7, 2012, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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would give a try to Moducare and yep..you show up several points  of difficulties... being an O hunter and then a nonnie...all you can get ...

my *Putzi*(femme de ménage) shows also those symptomes... be happy that you'ren't an explorer....


MIfHI K-174
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BHealthy
Friday, December 7, 2012, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jane
Wow, this post made a real difference to me.  ...  I'd appreciate any feedback.
Jane
Jane, if my post helps one person, it was worth the time to compose it. Thank you for this comment.

I'm not sure how long it will take for my body to 'detox' all the immune builders but I can tell you that I feel better and better every day.  I didn't cough once last night, not even when I first lay down, which is when it's usually the worst, and, so far, not once yet today.

Here's what I think are immune modulators (I would love corroboration if anyone can provide it):
    holy basil extract
    green tea (*)
    CoQ10/ubiquinol (*)
    astragalus (*)
    ashwagandha
    cilantro (*)
    mangosteen
    goji (*)
    schizandra
    amolo
    milk thistle
    chaga (*)
    parsley
    ginkgo (**)
    kelp
    horsetail
    vitamin C
    eleuthherococcus extract
    siberian ginseng
    nettle leaf
    black seed oil (nigella sativa) (**)
    larch arabinogalactin
    selenium
    Oleander extract
    vitamin D3 (*)
    magnesium (*)
    Curcumin (*)
    Bacopa (**)
(*) I take these
(**) Will add these when they arrive

And here's what I think are immune builders (again, corroboration would be welcome):
    Blue Green Algae (*)
    chlorella flakes (*)
    onion ????  (**)
    garlic ????  (**)
    elderberry (*)
    echinacea
    vitamin e
    vitamin a
    zinc
    sasparilla
    gotu kola
(*) These are what caused my problems.  I will now only take them when I'm exposed to someone with a cold/flu or feel like I'm coming down with one.  I know for certain that the algae, chlorella and elderberry are immune builders for me.  

(**)I'm still eating garlic and onions with no ill effects so maybe they're modulators.  Or, you have to eat massive amounts to see any 'building' effects.

What really amazes me, looking at these lists, is that the builders overpowered the modulators, and I take many more modulators than builders.


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."

Revision History (1 edits)
BHealthy  -  Saturday, December 8, 2012, 6:02pm
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Jane
Friday, December 7, 2012, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I'm actually feeling a little better today - so we'll see.  I have milk thistle that I bought a while ago but only tried once.  When should I take that?
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BHealthy
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Quoted from Jane
I'm actually feeling a little better today - so we'll see.  I have milk thistle that I bought a while ago but only tried once.  When should I take that?
I can't advise you on when to take it but I would suggest you go slowly! I tried a milk thistle extract and it gave me both stinky flatulence and bad gas/bloating.  

When I researched it those side effects are, supposedly, increased by a diet high in fat, which mine is.  

It might also have been the preparation (I got mine from Mountain Rose Herbs) or that I was taking too much too fast (one dropper every morning and I am 120 lbs).

I need to do that liver cleanse.  I have everything I need to do it, I just need to find the right time, when I don't have something on the next day that would be impacted by an adverse reaction to the castor oil.

Jane, how are you feeling?  I am still coughing, intermittently, but it's 90% improved from its worst and my eyes are also much better.



"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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Christopher1
Wednesday, December 12, 2012, 12:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from BHealthy
I have had allergies since I was 8 years old.  Most of the time they manifested as sneezing, runny nose, post nasal drip and itchy eyes.  I took shots and pills which controlled the symptoms.  I am allergic to dust, mold, and cats which are around 24/7.

When I started eating 'clean' 3 years ago my allergies got better except around cats, which I avoid whenever possible, and to which I still had a severe reaction.

At that time I also started taking whole food supplements -- not 'vitamin pills' but foods like turmeric, garlic, medicinal mushrooms, blue-green algae, chia seeds, pine pollen, olive leaf and hibiscus tea.  

Whenever I read about something that would increase the effectiveness of my immune system, I took it, figuring it would help me avoid cancer, dementia, arthritis, respiratory infections, and whatever else might afflict me.

I have had migraines since I was 18.  They are primarily food related and I am very careful when I introduce new foods/supplements in case they trigger an attack.  Whatever doesn't cause a migraine is added to my 'arsenal'.

Over the last 3 years I went through several detox periods until this past summer when I thought I had finally straightened my diet out. My migraines were down from 21/28 days to 4/28 days, my allergies were much better, and various other parts of my life had vastly improved (I have a list of these 25+ item which I will share with anyone who's interested).

But...I had developed a persistent irritation in my throat, my eyes burned constantly, and my energy level was not where I wanted it to be so I sought a local naturopath who introduced me to SWAMI.

While I waited for my SWAMI code to arrive I followed a VLC diet -- no sugar, starch, fat or dairy -- and stopped all supplements and my throat got much better.  When I got my SWAMI I assumed the improvement was due to eliminating dairy which my SWAMI says I can't have.

Through SWAMI I learned that Type Os have an overactive immune system which might protect them from the flu but made them susceptible to, among other things, allergies (check), environmental toxins (check), and arthritis (not yet).

For some reason the implication didn't sink in and for the past three months I continued to consume massive amounts of immune boosting foods.  I even increased my intake of some of them.

Then, two weeks ago, the irritation in my throat became unbearable, preventing me from falling asleep, waking me up at night, and not responding to either coughing or drinking.  The joints on my right thumb and finger became stiff and hurt when I tried to bend them. My eyes had gotten worse.

At first I blamed SWAMI; then, I started thinking about what I was doing now that I wasn't doing before SWAMI that might possibly have been responsible.  I listed every food I had added or eliminated.

Then it hit me: all these immune boosting foods were making an over-active immune system  even more over-active!  They were causing me to react even more severely to things that were already a problem.  The irritation in my throat and eyes was probably an allergic reaction and the pain in my fingers was probably arthritis.

Instantly, I eliminated all blue-green algae, chlorella, kombucha, blueberry, and elderberry.  I figured that a cold once a year was better than constant discomfort every day.  The only immune affecting substances I left in  my diet were immune modulators, hoping they would calm everything down.

The pain in my fingers went away totally in two days, my throat is almost healed, and my eyes feel much better.  

So...is my theory correct, that Type O's should avoid any immune building foods/supplements?

If they should, then why do many of the NAP O supplements contain chlorella, blueberry, echinacea, and elderberry?  





I am going to try dropping all immune boosters - including zinc. I will report back with my symptoms.

I tend to cough a lot to, though I never "catch" anything. I'm definitely a reactor.
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