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The Dirty Dozen.  This thread currently has 1,579 views. Print Print Thread
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Azure Agony
Monday, June 25, 2012, 2:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hello,

As far as I know, the dirty dozen consists of the following (though for some reason I have more than twelve scribbled down on my list) :

Celery
Peaches
Strawberries
Apples
Blueberries
Nectarines
Bell Peppers
Spinach
Kale
Collard Greens
Potatoes
Cherries
Grapes
Lettuce

I've noticed that quite a few of those are regularly on my shopping list, e.g. blueberries and cherries I use as part of a smoothie. Would you say this list is accurate, up to date and if so, would it apply universally? I live in England (UK), and I thought that lettuces, for example, in the U.S.A might differ from conditions in the U.K.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


A Hunter! With my Gatherer hips?
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Lola
Monday, June 25, 2012, 2:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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versus
"Clean 15" that contained little to no pesticides.

The Clean 15

Onions
Avocados
Sweet corn
Pineapples
Mango
Sweet peas
Asparagus
Kiwi fruit
Cabbage
Eggplant
Cantaloupe
Watermelon
Grapefruit
Sweet potatoes

http://www.foodnews.org/walletguide.php


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Azure Agony
Monday, June 25, 2012, 2:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you, Lola.  


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Azure Agony
Monday, June 25, 2012, 3:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I used to buy organic (when I was working), though if I do see a reasonably priced organic member of the dirty dozen, I'll pick it up. Otherwise from now on I'll avoid them.


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Mickey
Monday, June 25, 2012, 7:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Azure,

Each country has their own regulations for organic foods.  So maybe that is why your list is longer than twelve foods.  I believe the "dirty dozen" is exclusive to the U.S.  


"Let food be thy medicine"

Dr. D has said many times that it's not about what you don't eat but what you do eat that makes the difference.  "Quoted by Jane"
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Conor
Monday, June 25, 2012, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Azure Agony
I used to buy organic (when I was working), though if I do see a reasonably priced organic member of the dirty dozen, I'll pick it up. Otherwise from now on I'll avoid them.

Hi, I'm crossposting (see link) to another thread that includes some suggestions for cleaning conventional produce that, while it's still not organic, significantly improves it beyond a typical water bath (i.e., kills/removes toxicides, bacteria, molds, et al):

Cheers



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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ruthiegirl
Monday, June 25, 2012, 7:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would try to find lower-pesticide fruits to replace the ones you eat most often, if organic is out of your budget. See if you can get things from local farmers that are low in pesticides, even if they're not certified organic.

Remember that the "high pesticide fruits" are things that are regularly sprayed, on a schedule, whether they're actually infested with bugs or not. Produce grown by a farmer trying to limit pesticide use, or who only uses it when pests are actually present, is going to have much lower pesticide residues. Plus many farmers use organic farming practices but don't pay for official organic certification. You can talk to farmers directly at a farmer's market and ask about their farming techniques, if there are farmer's markets near you.

If all that's available is the conventional produce, then you do the best you can. You're still better off eating conventional cherries (beneficial) than conventional oranges (avoid) or not getting enough produce altogether.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Spring
Monday, June 25, 2012, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
I used to buy organic (when I was working), though if I do see a reasonably priced organic member of the dirty dozen, I'll pick it up. Otherwise from now on I'll avoid them.


I am posting this again here:
I have "outgrown" the urge to jump out of a car if I'm not driving and the driver pulls up too close to a car at a traffic light or backed-up traffic. The gas fumes used to nearly drive me insane. Of course, since a long time now cars have the recycle option so it isn't so much a problem, but even if we forget to use it, I still don't react anything like I used to do. Anymore, my ears don't pop like they did when I got around mold that wasn't even detectable to other people.

Of course, this is environmental stuff and not reactions to food, but it is an indication of what the right foods and supplements have done that has helped me with this! But I don't react to ice cream the way I used to do, either, for the same reason. Which more than proves to me that the important thing, as Dr. D. has said, is to eat the things that will make us healthy. But some of this takes years to accomplish! Especially when you are an older person, as I am.

I am fighting tooth and nail with groceries right now about trying to sell organic vegetables that are wilted, moldy and even rotten!!!!!    When down the aisle there are beautiful, insecticide ridden, inorganic veggies that are NOT wilted, moldy or rotten selling for nearly half the price!!! I have told them that there is more than one reason why I am so insulted and bothered about this. One is that I would like to see them sell more organic veggies so they will be more available. But rotten, moldy, wilted produce is NOT going to accomplish that because people are not stupid enough to buy it!!!

Start complaining, folks, if you have seen anything like what I am writing about. And MAKE SURE you tell them at the number you call or in the e-mail you send NOT to blame this on the produce depts. at the stores because it is a corporate problem that they need to address immediately!!! We don't want to ruin the health we are trying to preserve and, more times than not, to FIX, with rotten, wilted, stinking food that is costing an arm and a leg!!! You could also mention that selling more fresh, healthy veggies will mean the prices will come down, and they will sell even more! And the problem of veggies sitting around going bad will disappear!

All you have to do is do a search on the grocery stores you want to contact and get the information you need. The one I contacted today thanked me over and over again on the phone for writing and letting them know about this problem. I sent the e-mail today and about 2 hours later they called.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Conor
Monday, June 25, 2012, 8:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Azure Agony, one other thing about which to check with your greengrocer is whether or not the produce s/he carries has non-persistent or persistent pesticides applied to it. I'm thinking from your location description that you're somewhere between Falmouth and Hastings, but if you're actually more inland, closer to London, I know that the Whole Foods Market stores there require only non-persistent pesticides be applied to any conventional produce they carry. The non-persistent pesticides are so much easier to remove, making it a more cost-effective choice for produce.



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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grey rabbit
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 12:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Also, shop around. I have found, on occasion, organic produce cheaper than conventional. Sometimes organic is sold by the pound and conventional by the item or visa versa.


“Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It’s perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we’ve learned something from yesterday.”

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rAw warrior
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 6:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Spring
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 3:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 19000

I would guess it helps, and I do love the way green beans get that fresh smell again after being washed with vinegar!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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TJ
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
I am fighting tooth and nail with groceries right now about trying to sell organic vegetables that are wilted, moldy and even rotten!!!!!    When down the aisle there are beautiful, insecticide ridden, inorganic veggies that are NOT wilted, moldy or rotten selling for nearly half the price!!! I have told them that there is more than one reason why I am so insulted and bothered about this. One is that I would like to see them sell more organic veggies so they will be more available. But rotten, moldy, wilted produce is NOT going to accomplish that because people are not stupid enough to buy it!!!
Unfortunately, those pesticides do much to keep the conventional produce from getting wilted, moldy, or rotten.

I would suggest that, as a general rule, eating conventional fruits and veggies that are rated diamond or superfood are better than going without because you can't find or afford the organic variety.
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Spring
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 11:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ, I see to it that I get lots of veggies!! We grew up eating tons of them, and they are simply part of my life. As far as the rotten, moldy food, I have kept fresh veggies in my refrigerator just to see how long they would last when we were growing them, and I can tell you that they will keep very well indeed without all that stuff! Healthy vegetables are just like people who are healthy - they have a tendency to withstand a lot of abuse! I have noticed that the insecticide laden veggies are constantly hydrated in stores. The organics never see any of that spray! Grrrrr! They wrap organic cucumbers in plastic film, and I have never seen one yet that wasn't already getting soft. When will they learn that this doesn't work?!

It will be very interesting to see what the organic stuff looks like when I go back to the grocery I wrote about. That entire order of broccoli should have been thrown out. We will see........


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Azure Agony
Saturday, June 30, 2012, 12:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you all for your replies.

I hadn't looked at the thread for a day or so, and was surprised to see so many posts.

I'm digesting the information, and will apply some thought when I shop this afternoon.

Have a good weekend.


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Azure Agony
Saturday, June 30, 2012, 12:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'll have a look at an equivalent to Clorox (uk), as that sounds like a great idea.  


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Spring
Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 12:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Azure Agony
Hello,
As far as I know, the dirty dozen consists of the following (though for some reason I have more than twelve scribbled down on my list) :
Celery
Peaches
Strawberries
Apples
Blueberries
Nectarines
Bell Peppers
Spinach
Kale
Collard Greens
Potatoes
Cherries
Grapes
Lettuce
I've noticed that quite a few of those are regularly on my shopping list, e.g. blueberries and cherries I use as part of a smoothie. Would you say this list is accurate, up to date and if so, would it apply universally? I live in England (UK), and I thought that lettuces, for example, in the U.S.A might differ from conditions in the U.K. Any thoughts? Thanks.

For the life of me, I don't understand why bell peppers are on this list. I used to grow them, and there was never an insect in sight on them during all those years. What are they spraying for anyway?


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Conor
Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 2:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
For the life of me, I don't understand why bell peppers are on this list. I used to grow them, and there was never an insect in sight on them during all those years. What are they spraying for anyway?

For commercial growers, colored bell pepper fruits (ripe) attract market values that are three-to-five times greater than green fruits (mature but unripe). High fruit quality and yield of colored fruits are difficult to obtain in open field environments. Thus, enter the toxicides.



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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Spring
Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 3:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If people only knew how easy they are to grow ....... A big pot or two on the deck.......Sad to say, I can't eat them anyway...


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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shoulderblade
Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 9:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Conor

For commercial growers, colored bell pepper fruits (ripe) attract market values that are three-to-five times greater than green fruits (mature but unripe). High fruit quality and yield of colored fruits are difficult to obtain in open field environments. Thus, enter the toxicides.


I think there is a similar situation with Tomatoes that are grown in the south and exported to the north. The crop is harvested by machine when unripe and ripened later using ethylene gas, I believe. A ripe crop could not survive mechanical harvest nor a long trip via transport truck so some artificial intervention is demanded.

I think that even without transportation issues just machine harvest = chemical intervention as far as that goes.






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Conor
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A commonality tomatoes and bell peppers share is that, in response to any external attack, their skins tend to scar as a defensive mechanism in healing the affected area (their skins will also crack under duress). Thus, lowering market value for the farmer. Other fruits are prone to this, as well, which is why there are more fruits than vegetables on the 'dirty' list.



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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Spring
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Quoted from shoulderblade


I think there is a similar situation with Tomatoes that are grown in the south and exported to the north.

Ugh. These things are no good down here. I hate to think what they taste like after being shipped that distance! Just another thing I can't eat anyway. But there is a super huge difference in those tomatoes, and the ones ripened on the vine.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Wholefoodie
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Grapes from Chile have a much higher pesticide level than those grown in the U.S. California grown grapes usually fall in the middle range of pesticide listings.


FIfHI
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Henriette Bsec
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I think you can´t compare an american list with EU list. several of the ratings are the same

I know that red/yellow peppers etc are sprayed a lot in spain/holland - but hardly ever in DK

just to compare with the danish list  that is made a bit different

Always choose organic

Pineapple, orange, banana, foreign cellery, plums, blueberries,lemon, peach(nectarine, figs, non- danish/foreign Kale, foreign green beans, ginger, strawberries, foreign potaoes, cherries, mandarine/clementine, lime, pear, celleriac( foreign), grapes, apples.

Less sprayed

Eggplant, cauliflower, broccoli, fennel, peppers, tomatoes,beets, and all danish veggies.

If you are broke -those fruits are rarely sprayed or/and have thick skin

asparagus
avocado, grapefruit, kiwi, cabbage, onions, mango melons, corn, sweet potatoes, peas.

I am rather passionate about organic produce cause my dad was a gartner and sprayed a lot of green houses and died from a cance he go from his work

HOWEVER I am broke so at the moment I tend to eat my own veggies and try to choose as few on the red list.


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