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Re testing for foods  This thread currently has 840 views. Print Print Thread
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Possum
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 7:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
"I still can't help but wonder if raw, local honey would rate better for us O nonnies (maybe as high as a neutral) if it was tested separately from commercial, pasteurized honey."

I agree... Am also wondering?! Not only are there different types of honey, but then there are local as well as organic ones too? If the rating is for ALL honey how can it be?
I used to actually get a headache eating some types of honey - very sweet, highly scented ones... but can tolerate some (except not in skin products)

As well as the query raised by Ruthie above, I also wanted to add to this, as it is something I have often puzzled over re the testing of foods...

When foods are tested/rated per BT or GT or even for swami, are variations taken into a/c ie organic vs non organic taken, or are different varieties of the food itself considered ie if pears are an avoid does that mean all pears were tested or just a particular type?

Also still on fruit, I know some people can eat pears & some people can eat golden delicious apples without the skin, as the skin contains salicylates, (but not red ones at all) Even different levels of ripeness & growing seasons can alter fruit/vegetables... Is this any of this considered in the testing?
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Lloyd
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 11:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Some of the lectin testing was done or directed by Dr. D. The bulk of the information used in the ratings was found in published databases such as the USDA Nutrition Database and other, reliable sources.

Needless to say, it would be extremely expensive to test all the varieties an subsets that we would ideally like to know about.

There is a general lack of information in this area despite the large amounts of information known and tabulated.

Since a large portion of the rating of a food (as much as 100%) is based on published data you should assume that the food ratings will not have significant changes unless you have reason to think that the published data (primarily nutritive values) will have a notable difference from the subset you are looking at, and that it is in an area that the rating algorithm will use.
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Goldie
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 1:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

All Gatherer -70 Scorp/Sag on BTD/GENO 17 year
Sam Dan
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Food testing.. is only for when healthy enough to be able to do so..

'20/80% Testing' meaning, since we are following 80 to 90 % compliant MOST days, then the 10 % or on rare occasion 20% unknown or avoids should not do mayor harm, according to Dr. D's own writing.   Our immune systems should be able to handle it.

When I 'cheat', I am the test tube.. cheating for me is anything less then what is listed in Diamonds, Beneficials, and self selected few Neutrals.. with the exception that some foods that are OK in one book, but not in the other or not in the most current Swami, I still consider those as flexibilities for : on the here and there occasion.  

Test tube indicator of any trouble is my chin.  If I itch I look to see which item might have caused it.  

AVOIDS as shown in any of all books  What we should not do, is think we can eat any of the avoids on a daily basis and not gain weight.  I see weight gain linked to immunology as PROTECTIVE water retention against what I ate..  

Honey.. I am under the impression that LOCAL honey has the advantage, if taken a teaspoon every week at least, that it would immunize against local allergies.   Worth a try, some have 'relative' success with it.

Blueberries   ????? why In most books they where Beneficial.. Now in Swami they are avoid.. I miss them.. The kind I buy are now bigger then ever, Monsanto-effect yet I miss making the smoothies..

Substitution is the name of this game : In place of blueberries, I just cut up pineapple into bite size slices and froze them, so I am back to some frozen fruit other than banana slices.. nice..      


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!

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Goldie  -  Sunday, June 3, 2012, 2:59pm
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Possum
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 11:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
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Thanks Lloyd & Goldie...
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 8:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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In the specific case of honey, I'm not entirely sure why it's an avoid for O nonnies in the first place. I've found some information online about raw, local, organic honey, and its proponents claim that it's much better than the pasturized "unknown source" kind. But without knowing WHY honey is an avoid, I can't do any kind of research into whether or not the raw kind would be OK for me.

Do the  benefits outweigh the risks if an O nonnie is  dealing with seasonal allergies?

Is honey "less harmful" than refined white sugar?

Should raw honey be considered "untested and possibly neutral" or does it fall into the generalized "honey" category on BTD/GTD/SWAMI?

My health is rather fragile at the moment and I'm not going to experiment with raw honey right now. I don't have that "indicator light on my chin" the way Goldie does. But it would be nice to include raw honey in my diet (in teeny tiny quantities) if it proved to be an OK food for me.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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C_Sharp
Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher Rh+ Lewis: a+b-, NN,Taster
Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from ruthiegirl

Is honey "less harmful" than refined white sugar?


For me Honey is a superfood and
Sugar, Brown, White is an avoid


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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ABJoe
Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from Possum
Am also wondering?! Not only are there different types of honey, but then there are local as well as organic ones too? If the rating is for ALL honey how can it be?

No two batches of honey are exactly the same...  Different flowers are blooming in different ratios and different times through the honey season.  Even honey from one year to the next in the same hive location, doesn't guarantee that the pollen collected was the same as last year...  Being a natural product, it is subject to variation all of the time.  While you can get close to the same product, it won't be identical, and therefore, may not test the same during an allergy test.

As Lloyd says, you have to test a "standard" and go with it for a rating, although understand that you may have some reaction to some product depending on what the pollen source was, if you are susceptible to that...



RH-, ISTJ
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Possum
Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 11:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
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Makes total sense ABJoe... I'm not fussed re the honey as such (I don't eat it now due to carbs anyway) but was just was using it as a point of enquiry

What I am more interested in, is how can there be standard test results for other foods when the foods can vary sooo much... Even between species... Like I understand re a banana for instance as they are pretty standard (altho' still huge variations between organic vs sprayed)

But how can apples or pears be a broad category when the types vary so much??!! That is even without the variations of between countries, soil conditions, ripeness, skin on/off etc etc

And that some of us (even with swami) can react negatively to the beneficial list, yet positively to the avoids??!! Must be some reason for that...(maybe one of the above)
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ABJoe
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 1:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from Possum
What I am more interested in, is how can there be standard test results for other foods when the foods can vary sooo much... Even between species... Like I understand re a banana for instance as they are pretty standard (altho' still huge variations between organic vs sprayed)

But how can apples or pears be a broad category when the types vary so much??!! That is even without the variations of between countries, soil conditions, ripeness, skin on/off etc etc

And that some of us (even with swami) can react negatively to the beneficial list, yet positively to the avoids??!! Must be some reason for that...(maybe one of the above)

There are many different inputs that apply to ratings, but there are rating parts that are universal through a "food family" - for instance, the lectin in chicken is in all chickens - not just the one specific breed.  Corn is the same - whether it is popcorn, sweet corn or other, it has the lectin that bothers many people...

My guess is that even plums or green beans are close enough to the same nutrient content that the ratings taken for the database are close enough to be usable even though minor variations are bound to exist.  We aren't typically talking about the minor nutrient difference between an apple picked fully ripe from my backyard tree vs. one picked, stored in cold storage for 4 months, then shipped to the store as fresh...

As far as the reactions to beneficial foods...  There are many "negative" reactions possible during healing.  The more beneficial foods I eat, the more pain I am in, it seems...  I want to finish the healing, so I eat beneficial foods almost exclusively - but I know that the pain / other symptoms related to the long-term healing project are going to be there for some time still...  You can't always say pain or acne or ??? = bad.  Many times the body heals by chucking a bunch of junk out through the skin, which may look or smell bad, but is very healing to the body.  

Again, it is a matter of where you were when you started as to how much grief you will need to go through to get healthy.  I really think many people slow the healing process significantly because they think that a little pain, etc. is bad, so they shouldn't eat that beneficial food...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Possum
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 1:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
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Good points re pain & healing & also the lectin issue being across the family of whatever foods Joe!!! Thanks for reminding me of that!!

Sooo confusing though, being able to fully recognise which is healing *pain* & which IS an allergic reaction type *pain*   Especially when the *good* foods for an Explorer are sometimes weirdly, the EXACT opposite to the Gatherer ones...    I guess that's 'cos you get ANY bloodtype in the Explorer camp
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ABJoe
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 1:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

35% Nomad or Teacher - health history dependent
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from Possum
Sooo confusing though, being able to fully recognise which is healing *pain* & which IS an allergic reaction type *pain*   Especially when the *good* foods for an Explorer are sometimes weirdly, the EXACT opposite to the Gatherer ones...    I guess that's 'cos you get ANY bloodtype in the Explorer camp

I hear this...  It is part of why I am glad I can do my own MRT (most of the time) and have a good practitioner for when I feel a need for verification...  

When neither the Type A or Teacher (per GTD book) worked for DD, we decided to get SWAMI and she is really happy with it, although not pain or symptom free.  We both have been able to follow our SWAMI guidelines and are both healing very deeply.  It is amazing how deeply the body heals once we provide the right fuel.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Possum
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 2:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
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Spring
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 2:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp

For me Honey is a superfood and Sugar, Brown, White is an avoid

It is the same in my SWAMI.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 2:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I have Honey as an avoid and Sugar, Brown, White as an avoid. I'm pretty much limited to agave and molasses.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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Possum
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 2:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
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Agave has a higher proportion of fructose to glucose, so not good for some of us... Goes straight to the liver to be stored as fat...
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Mother
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 2:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Possum
I too wish I knew which reactions were healing and which ones are negative. It's so hard to figure out. Some days swiss chard feels medicinal and some days it causes alot of wind, which I of course try to avoid. What I have found and pin pointed without a doubt is I can tolerate a ton of different foods that I used to react to soooooo much better IF I don't eat alot of protein with it and that seems to go against the typical hunter. However I rearrange, check or uncheck SWAMI, I am always a hunter. I'm supposed to get the most protein and I find the less I eat, the better I feel. Not sure how to explain that one! Today I had about 5 oz of salmon divided throughout the day for flesh protein and felt great. 2 days ago I had 1/2 a burger and felt thick, heavy and shortly after somewhat energy drained.I find myself to be far less hungry getting more protein from veg than animal. Hmmm...


56% hunter secretor
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Spring
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 2:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Explorer
Ee Dan
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From ABJoe
Quoted Text
between an apple picked fully ripe from my backyard tree vs. one picked, stored in cold storage for 4 months, then shipped to the store as fresh...

I was talking to an agronomist a while back about apples, and, at the time, they were working on an apple that could be held in cold storage for THREE years!!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Possum
Wednesday, June 6, 2012, 4:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
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Mother, maybe you just do better on fish than beef? Isn't Patty the same, despite being a Hunter as well?

Spring - 3 years storage for apples??!! Sheesh!!
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