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Os and Dairy  This thread currently has 4,896 views. Print Print Thread
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Sahara
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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This food group has been an ongoing problem for me the last few years.  I know better and have greatly reduced it over the summer.  However, I'm constantly reading all over the Internet about the "health benefits" of dairy.  

How dairy free are you?  Do you never eat dairy or if you do, how often?  Has eliminating dairy reducded your body fat %? What really are the reasons for eliminating dairy other than that it isn't a great buidling food for Os.  Is it actually metabolically inactivating like wheat?  I was more hardcore dairy free in the early 2000s and am looking for input about why kefir should not ever be in my shopping basket again.
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ruthiegirl
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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In the past, I discovered that consuming dairy led to nasal congestion and an increase in aggressiveness/shortened temper. I found that I didn't have these problems from goat dairy (goat milk, yogurt or kefir made from goat milk, and goat cheese) and my reactions to sheep dairy (feta cheese specifically) was milder than my reaction to cow dairy, but I still reacted.

I was dairy free, off and on, for many years. When I was doing low-carb, I came across the Paleo Diet, and cut out all dairy for about a month. I re-introduced butter with no problems, I tried cream once and felt all my symptoms return, so I've eliminated cream since that time. When I switched from low carb/Paleo to BTD, I re-introduced goat cheese, farmer cheese, feta cheese (sheep milk only) and mozzarella cheese. Somewhere in that time I discovered ghee (so easy to make! Why did i wait so long to try it?) and have been using that regularly as well. Since I did fine on butter as my only dairy product, I expect ghee to be similarly safe.

When I got SWAMI, I kept my cheese intake the same but also added in occasional paneer or ricotta (both neutral.) When I found out my secretor status, I cut out the mozzarella, feta, and farmer's cheese, and added in quark cheese (beneficial.)

However, I haven't been feeling too well lately.  I haven't noticed any obvious congestion, but I often can't smell things that my kids can smell, and my seasonal allergies have just started acting up again (tree pollen is starting to be in the air again.) I've also been having a hell of a time with my temper lately, and overall feelings of being overwhelmed and out of control. I decided that I'll finish up the current batch of quark cheese in the fridge, but then I won't make any more for a few months. I'm going to go back to "no dairy but butter and ghee" and see if that makes me feel better.

I may even try making quark from goat milk, rather than cow's milk, when I make it again. I might just have a problem with the proteins in cow's milk, regardless of what SWAMI says about certain cheeses for me.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Lola
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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find out which dairy products suit your GT

there are online videos to making your own paneer, kefir, ....or other, depending on your specific variables


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Beachgirl
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Other than occasional butter (very, very rare these days) I'm trying to go completely dairy free.  I have crazy allergies, asthma & an immune system that reacts at the drop of a hat.  I've only been doing the BTD for a week & the GTD for a day, so it's a little early to tell if it's making a difference in allergies for me.  Yogurt/ kefir have never seemed to give me problems in the past, but I've never eliminated them before, either.  After a month or so of no wheat/ no dairy I'll be able to tell better.  (hopefully)     I'm not a big cheesehead, so I won't miss that part.  


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again!
Goal weight acheived!!  Woo Hoo!!!!
DH of 18 yrs. O+, DS 17yo O, DS 5yo O, not sure on the boys' RH status.

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Lola
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2009/01/15/butyrate-and-ghee?blog=27
important to gut health in general, depending on type, variables, physiology and more.....Dr D has computed all this and more into his sophisticated SWAMI software


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Sahara
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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No my question has to do with weight gain/fat gain.  Dr. D says in LR4YT that dairy causes "undesirable weight gain."  I'm wondering why this is.  It's a whole food group which I could add to my meal or at least have once a week as a "cheat meal".  Congestion is a problem for me too if I have it too often; it is also pro inflammatory for Os.  But what really concerns me is whether or not it stalls the release of body fat.  
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Beachgirl
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm not sure about the fat yet...still waiting for that first magical pound to disappear!     Even at my thinnest/ most toned, I ate yogurt & it never seemed to be an issue, but I'm certainly no expert.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again!
Goal weight acheived!!  Woo Hoo!!!!
DH of 18 yrs. O+, DS 17yo O, DS 5yo O, not sure on the boys' RH status.

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Sahara
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I want my kefir!!!!!!
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ruthiegirl
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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When I was doing low-carb, I found that I often lost weight well when I was including cheeses, but had many stalls when I went Paleo and cut the dairy out. Overall health improved, but I didn't see any definite weight loss from it. But then, I've always had problems losing weight, and I never really found anything that consistenly allows me to lose weight. I haven't been at a healthy weight since I got pregnant with my first child (and she'll be 17 in December.)

About the only certainty with my diet and weight is that overdoing the carbs makes me  gain weight.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Sahara
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 11:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Maybe some of the Hunters will chime in.  Dairy really ought to be a once a week treat and imo ought to be something fermented.  But no not really sure about that.  Just because I like a food doesn't mean it's good for me.
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David
Monday, September 5, 2011, 8:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I read this thread, and then the O's and % body fat thread and posted some of dairy comments there. Posted another one about diary in the gallbladder thread about the benefits of beets.

I find myself wondering why almost all the O's I've seen in the forums who have done Swami are listed as Explorer or Gatherer instead of Hunter?

I have gone through the routine of helping quite a few O+ people figure out what they are and most of them came out as Hunter... Quite a few of them were born in Nigeria.

It is sounding like Swami has a more inclusive questionnaire than the book, that takes in consideration the individuals health history, activity level, emotional nature or personality characteristics etc. or what else?


Thoughts Are Things... Think The Good Ones... and remember... Moderate exercise is the best mood elevator!
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Henriette Bsec
Monday, September 5, 2011, 8:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamied nomad chameleon receptor worldview
Kyosha Nim
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Well I have noticed that Danish O´s seem to have less problems with dairy compared to what I read here.
My guess is that while dairy isn´t good for O´s maybe living in a society where the lactase persistence is quite common, makes it less bad for O´s.
In Dk less than 4 % of the adult population is lactose intolerent and cassein allergy is very rare.

My daughter gets more dairy than she ought. (hard when you live wth a B  )
Especially cheese and butter are very common in her diet.
She gets some whipping cream and a little creme fraise as well- but rarely drinking milk or yoghurt.
One interesting thing is that both she, my mum and step dad( all O types seem to do better on raw milk than pastuerized milk. Maybe the lipase and lactase in raw milk makes it less problematic  



ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
0 rh- secr ( Hunter or Explorer )
Diamonds, superfoods, Neutral,*black dots, avoids
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PCUK-Positive
Monday, September 5, 2011, 12:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
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If you have a problem with dairy then avoid nightshades too (they make it worse) or to put it simply follow the BTD.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Andrea AWsec
Monday, September 5, 2011, 12:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I
I may even try making quark from goat milk, rather than cow's milk, when I make it again. I might just have a problem with the proteins in cow's milk, regardless of what SWAMI says about certain cheeses for me.


Or you have something else going on in you body....

Sometimes the foods that heal us don't always make us feel good.





MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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balletomane
Monday, September 5, 2011, 1:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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David, a Hunter here

Sahara, I'm not entirely sure about the weight gain/fat gain issue related to dairy. But I go with my SWAMI, which allows a small portion of butter or ghee per week (1 tsp) and 2-4 oz of cheese per week. I only have five types of cheeses that are allowed, of which only 3 are available where I live. So I stick to that portion and find that the hard cheeses actually help my digestion and does not make me gain weight as long as I don't go overboard with the portion.

In the past, I ate a lot of "avoid" dairy products and I did gain a lot of weight... I was very puffy.

Henriette, I have read somewhere that Scandinavians are more lactose tolerant than any other ethnic groups. My husband, a Swede, seems to do well with dairy products even though many of them should be "avoids" for him.


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O in Virginia
Monday, September 5, 2011, 2:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami
Kyosha Nim
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I cheat occasionally with dairy.  I love cheese and ice cream, but I don't indulge often.  If I keep my portions miniscule I can get by with no problem except for a bit of congestion.  I haven't noticed any mood changes after eating dairy.  If I eat more than I should - my digestion will let me know it later.  I never suffered from lactose intolerance that I was aware of pre BTD.  But now that I have avoided dairy (mostly) for the past year, I do find it has a more immediate effect on me when I indulge.  My only superfood/beneficial dairy on swami is ghee (which I use often) and Indian buffalo milk, which I have not seen around here.  Quark is a neutral and I use that occasionally to make a cheesy rice noodle casserole (comfort food), although store bought quark is more like sour cream, and it is good to use with anything that you might enjoy with sour cream.  Cheese/dairy DOES make me gain weight, for sure.  I notice that the next day after having it.  I don't track body fat percentages.  I have enough to depress me at the moment.  
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ruthiegirl
Monday, September 5, 2011, 3:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Andrea AWsec


Or you have something else going on in you body....

Sometimes the foods that heal us don't always make us feel good.





OK, but if I'm getting the needed probiotics from fermented veggies, and the needed dairy fats from ghee, why would I *need* quark cheese?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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ABJoe
Monday, September 5, 2011, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
OK, but if I'm getting the needed probiotics from fermented veggies, and the needed dairy fats from ghee, why would I *need* quark cheese?

I'm not a food scientist, but my supposition is that a mix of nutrients would be helpful.  It is hard to know what all micronutrients (or the balance) you may be needing.

I know that there are days when I try to eat one member of the cabbage family, but can't and actually need a different one...  I suppose the body knows what it needs at the time and can get more from one source than another.  It has prompted me to expand the variety in my diet...


RH-, ISTJ
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PCUK-Positive
Monday, September 5, 2011, 6:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
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also don't wear tight clothes.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Brighid45
Monday, September 5, 2011, 7:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have the same reactions ruthiegirl does to cow, goat and sheep milk and cheeses. Ghee is my favorite good quality fat. It's the only food of dairy origin I still eat, aside from a little pecorino or manchego. I don't like what dairy does to me-bloating, weight gain, mood swings, congestion, inflammation of my arthritis--so I leave it alone.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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StarPine
Monday, September 5, 2011, 8:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 14442
But what really concerns me is whether or not it stalls the release of body fat.  


It absolutely stalls the release of body fat for me! In fact, I gain immediately. The day I eat like 1 oz of cheese for example, the next day I can gain almost 1 inch of fat on my hips. That's NO JOKE. I measure myself everyday, so that's how I know.

Dairy is the worst thing possible for me to eat when it comes to body fat. As for the rest of the "health benefits", I'm not so sure.
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StarPine
Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
also don't wear tight clothes.


Ha!  
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StarPine
Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
If you have a problem with dairy then avoid nightshades too (they make it worse) or to put it simply follow the BTD.


So a caprese salad is definite no-no
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jetsgirl15
Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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[quote from Sahara] [No my question has to do with weight gain/fat gain.  Dr. D says in LR4YT that dairy causes "undesirable weight gain."  I'm wondering why this is.  It's a whole food group which I could add to my meal or at least have once a week as a "cheat meal".  Congestion is a problem for me too if I have it too often; it is also pro inflammatory for Os.  But what really concerns me is whether or not it stalls the release of body fat. ]

All I can say is that when I realized that it was dairy causing all my intestinal distress and gave it up completely, I lost 17 pounds in 3 weeks!!!  And I feel soooooo much better now! I follow the GTD for Gatherers and while I still do miss some foods, I don't miss them bad enough to want to feel that sick again!  
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Possum
Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I never feel sick or have any real congested reaction eating dairy (except milk) but I had got into the (bad) habit on nibbling on cheese too often & had certainly noticed the weight gain over winter Now that I am not having it in the house so can really resist, I have lost a kg (approx 2lbs) over night
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