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MSM for Type O with Arthritis?  This thread currently has 4,340 views. Print Print Thread
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 4:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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My mom is finally ready to start implementing BTD. This week, she's cutting out wheat- the rest will come later.

She asked me to pick up more Glucosamine/Chondroitin since I was going to Costco today, and she ran out. I asked her if it helped her, and her response was "I don't know. I've been taking it for 20 years."

A quick search this morning showed me that glucosamine is fine for Os but chondroitin is bad news. So, I checked Costco for glucosamine pills that didn't include chondroitin. I found two different varieties (actually 3: 2 name brand plus a Kirkland brand for half the price that was similar to one of the name brand products.) The one that's available in the Kirkland brand includes MSM, the one that's only available in the name brand includes 400 mg of vitamin D.

I bought one bottle of each, figuring I'd return the one with MSM if it's bad for Os, or return the more expensive one with vitamin D if the MSM one is fine.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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PCUK-Positive
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 4:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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if she cuts out wheat and dairy whe will be startled by the improvement alone.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Jesi
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 4:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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O's can't have MSM. I used to take it to make my hair grow and was going to buy it again, checked here, and it says it's an avoid for us.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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Jesi
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 4:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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oops forgot to add, I have shoulder impingement on both shoulders and get really bad wrist and finger pain in my right arm when I am not compliant. Being compliant ALONE is the only thing that has taken away my pain. I've taken glucosamine, msm (both together also), and done Arriosti (deep nerve massage), and steroid shots, nothing ever worked. ONLY cutting out wheat, dairy, corn, and soy has helped my pain. I didn't even notice the pain had gone away until after 3 weeks on the btd I had some pizza and a tiny bit of ice cream, the next day my shoulder, wrist, and index finger hurt so bad I wanted to punch them with a hammer. Felt like someone was sticking an ice pick into my shoulder.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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She hardly consumes dairy anyway. The only "avoid dairy" in her fridge right now are some hard cheeses she bought for my neice and nephew (which should last until their next visit, being individually wrapped) and cream cheese. I suggested she use goat cheese in place of cream cheese, and offered to take her cream cheese upstairs for DS to eat, but she said she wants to keep it in her fridge to feed him when he comes downstairs. I bought her a 1 lb package of goat cheese in Costco today.

Now I just need to go to Trader Joe's and pick up a loaf of spelt bread for her, then she'll  be fully ready to stop eating wheat.

I'll talk to her later about the supplements, and suggest "not taking any" as an option.

Since the MSM is OK, I'll definitely return the glucosamine with vitamin D. I wonder if the trace amounts of avoids in the pills (corn starch and the like) would counter any benefits from the supplements themselves (although cutting out the chondroitin she's been taking for 20 years should help too.) I can certainly return both bottles rather than just one, but I didn't want to go to the store and not buy what she asked me to get for her and gave me money for.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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Jesi
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ruthie MSM is an avoid for O's...it's not ok. do a search with MSM and O. I would return everything!


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Where do you get Dr D saying that MSM is bad for Os? Several people who are Os have said that they've taken it.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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Jesi
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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sorry I guess it is not advised because the O diet already contains a lot of sulphur. But if she is not on the btd then I guess it is ok. I had looked it up for myself weeks ago and was glad I didn't buy it because everything I read here was that MSM and CoQ10 were not advised for O's. But I am on btd/gtd so your Mom would be different.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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Jesi
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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do a search up top for "MSM for O" and it'll bring up the stuff I'm looking at.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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Chloe
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr D on MSM from this thread

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-pres/m-1127176410/s-75/

Quoted Text
"MSM does not fall in that category. It is a highly purified form of sulfur, and sulfur is a constituent of all life. With MSM my concerns have always been that supplementing with high amounts, in addition to a high protein diet, could put a a strain on the kidneys. I've no proof that this is true, it is just an opinion. for things like chromium, MSM or algae, perhaps my position is more accurately that "they can have benefit in some people of a certain type, though they don't possess any specific attributes which will enhance the effect of the diets, and are perhaps redundant with it.""


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Jane
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 6:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I thought it was good for O's.  I've been taking the Glucosamine with MSM for a couple of years and I thought I remembered Dr. D. saying it was good for O's.  Hmmmmm.....guess next time I should go back to the plain glucosamine sulfate......
Jane
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SquarePeg
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 7:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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FYI, MSM is recommended for 0s on the sinus health protocol:

http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/25.html

I know -- I used to take it!


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 7:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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OK, so the glucosamine with MSM may help her arthritis and her seasonal allergies?


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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SquarePeg
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 8:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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IIRC, MSM is recommended in the Allergy book, but it's not part of the Allergy protocol here on this site.  I suppose if your mom's sinuses are affected by the allergies, then MSM should help her.  But the protocol is for limited duration, either 4 or 8 weeks.  (I can't remember.)  So maybe keep the bottle, use it up, and don't buy any more.

Quercetin and stinging nettle are supposed to be good, all-purpose allergy helpers.

This is not medical advice -- standard disclaimers apply, here.


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 9:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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There are two bottles of glucosamine in my trunk right now. Neither have been opened, and can still be returned. Both are from Costco, so something like a 3 month supply per bottle. The one with the MSM is about double the size of the one with vitamin D, though they were around the same price. I'm not sure if that means one is a 1.5 month supply and the other a 3 months supply, or if one is a 3 and the other a 6 month supply. I don't have the bottles in front of me.

The options are:

1) Use the glucosamine with MSM (least expensive form of glucosamine) and return the one with vitamin D.

2) use the glucosamine with vitamin D (most expensive option) and return the one with MSM

3) return both bottles and see how much she improves on diet alone (cheapest option, but I'm not sure how she'll feel about this idea. She's pretty used to the idea of healing coming from a pill.)


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 1:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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OK, I spoke to her. She's not comfortable with option #3; she wants to keep taking glucosamine. I also took a  closer look at the bottles- the Kirkland  brand is a much larger bottle, but not that many more pills. It only LOOKS like it has twice as much in it. Both bottles contain about a 3 month supply.

Did I read somehwere that MSM can cause loose stools in Os, or was that some other supplement?

I'm starting to think that maybe the one with vitamin D would be her best bet.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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PCUK-Positive
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 2:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Stopping wheat will be the best, and stopping dairy will help alot especially with any calcification problems. and cheese is dairy, as you know. if she cannot give it up she will continue to hurt.

all the supps under the sun are not going to help her as much as stopping wheat and dairy!


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 4:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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She's stopping wheat as of today or yesterday- I bought her a loaf of spelt bread today.  The only dairy she's using is butter and goat cheese. Goat cheese is neutral for O secretors on BTD. The cream cheese in her fridge will be fed to my  type B son. She even expressed interest in getting a SWAMI in a few months, and I'll probably encourage her to get a secretor test at that time as well (or perhaps Andrea will. ) For now, she's easing into the BTD and starting out with the secretor diet.

But she's still not willing to give up the supplement she's been using for arthritis for the past 20 years. It's HUGE that she's willing to switch to a formulation that doesn't include the chondroitin- once she finishes up the 5 days' worth left  from the last bottle. The options at this point are the glucosamine with MSM or the glucosamine with vitamin D.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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spinnakertech
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 5:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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ruthiegirl, so glad you Mom is getting on board.  I'm sure she'll start feeling better soon--I felt relief from my rheumatoid arthritis symptoms and my acid reflux symptoms within 4 days after starting BTD.  Why don't you just get Deflect O for the glucoasmine for your Mom?  It has the preferred form of glucosamine for Type O's--N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine plus N-Acetyl Cysteine and Larch Arabinogalactan, which both help to heal the gut, which should help with the arthritis reactions.  It is also more pure than what you can get at Costco in that it does not have corn or other additives.  And it's been formulated by Dr D for her type!  I've been taking Deflect O since I started BTD and I think it has been a huge boost to the effectiveness of the diet.  If not Deflect O, then I would suggest going to Whole Foods and finding a form of N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine without additives.  Good luck to her.
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 5:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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I won't have time to  go to Whole Foods this week, and I'm not sure she'll be comfortable buying supplements online. Either of these bottles will only last 3 months, by which time she'll be more familiar with BTD and maybe even have a SWAMI. She can replace it with something even better when it's used up. Either of these products is a huge step up from what she's been taking.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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Jane
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 5:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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The N-acetyl glucosamine in Deflect is a different kind of glucosamine and not targetted for the same things.  Dr. D has said that in the past....long time ago.  You can get glucosamine sulfate cheaply at Whole Foods..their own brand.  They sell a plain one, one with the MSM and then the glucosamine with chondroitin.  Their brand isn't expensive.  
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 7:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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OK, I'll see if I can get out there before she uses up her current bottle. Otherwise, I think the one with D is a safer choice than the MSM, and then I'll get it at WF in the future.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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Kyosha Nim
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Dairy Products Linked to Rheumatoid Arthritis
"Rheumatoid arthritis is more severe than osteoarthritis, is most common in the hands and feet, and is characterized by swelling of joints. Since this type of joint pain can be a symptom of a food allergy, dietary change sometimes has a profound effect. Dairy products, the most common food allergen, are one likely candidate as a contributing causative factor."
-Vegetarian and Vegan Nutrition by George Eisman, M.A., M.Sc., R.D.

"In the case of the eight year old female subject, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis was a milk allergy. After avoiding dairy products, all pain was gone in three weeks."


http://rawfooddietsecrets.com/blog/06/dangers-of-milk-52-reasons-to-avoid-dairy/


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, May 12, 2011, 1:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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My mother has osteoarthritis, not rheumatoid arthritis.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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ruthiegirl - The comment is an example of how food affects health. I was trying to be more specific so as to perhaps help your mother.

Since this is the first mention you make of a specific arthritis - surely the following comment

"In the case of the eight year old female subject, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis was a milk allergy. After avoiding dairy products, all pain was gone in three weeks."

would be encouraging for you r mother to read.

perhaps i have picked you up incorrectly but your response seems odd. if you would like be not to answer any of your posts in future just say so!


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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