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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 12:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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There have been so much interest in these skills here lately that I think these posts deserve a thread of their own.  If that is OK with admins I will start by moving here related posts I have under 'Cristina's Swami Xpress' thread ...  Maybe copy and paste here and delete them from there .. ?

We can post our experiences with creating bread starters, vegie and fruit fermenting ...

We can have another thread dedicate to Sprouting for our Type ... similar but with anything related to sprouting ...

PS: On second thought a few of us decided it is best to keep under the one thread (instead of the two suggested) all these techniques:   fermenting, cultures and sprouting nuts, seeds and beans ...

Thanks Lola for doing the merging ...





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Cristina  -  Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:05pm
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Cristina
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Success, failures, techniques, shortcuts, links, what, when, how, results .... timing .... Post away ....  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 1:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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June 8th 2010:

Quoted from Cristina
Ferment Bread project:

I do have the Nourishing Traditions recipe and many others from the net which I have not tried yet, but my permaculture teacher makes the most beautiful, tasty, light fermented bread, so I am following her recipe adapted to my type:

Step 1 - Adaptation from Permaculture RealFood  starter:

1 cup Spelt Organic white flour
1 cup organic Soy milk
1 cup organic yogurt

Mix together in a bowl until all lumps disappear
cover bowl with tea towel tied with rubber band to the bowl
set it on top of my wireless router overnight (nice and warm spot)

Ok why not, I am also starting one inspired by  Nourishing Traditions recipe (no milk) and the PR above:

Step 1 - Cristina's (adaptation) starter:

1 cup Organic, Spelt flour
1 cup warm (rain) water
1/2 cup yogurt
1 tbsp marley malt

Mix together in a bowl until all lumps disappear
cover bowl with tea towel tied with rubber band to the bowl
set it on top of my ip phone box overnight (another nice and warm spot)

Now so that I do not get mixed up and forget later one, the smaller bowl is the one with the water starter, the bigger bowl (both stainless steel), is the one with the  soy milk starter.  (Tie the string to the finger!!)




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Lola
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 5:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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I ve been having great results fermenting my sprouts!!!
yes, unbelievable yet true!
I simply process these with sea salt......let ferment a few days, voila!

I can also use a batch to add to my focaccia if need be, or simply make a sourdough faux
manna with the fermented sprouts......experimenting is such fun.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lola
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 5:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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lol.....just mentioned two in one a while back....
you won t get any precise amounts from me, sorry....
I cook by ear>>>>>>>lol or should that be by touch??

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1277859580/s-2/#num2

I do an all inclusive if I feel like it......
for me it s just having fun.......happy it turns out right.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 6:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks Lola, you are the inspiration pushing me on!!  I know you have been doing this for many years and are living proof everything works!!  One step at a time though, I am getting the feeling how these little creatures should look like, what the different smells, colours textures produce, moving things around my kitchen to make it all flow much better ... fermenting sprouts is on the cards soon!!!    




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Shall we make it fermenting and sprouting for our type then? ,,, have just the one thread instead of the two?  




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Munchkin76
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 8:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cristina

Thanks for starting this thread!  I've always been curious about sprouting and fermenting, but have never really got my own experimentation off the ground so to speak.  Just received my kombucha tea brewing kit yesterday, so am very excited to start brewing this fine beverage again (used to brew my own many years ago when I was still living in Brissie).

Looking forward to hear how everyone's getting on!

Andy


Listen to all, plucking a feather from every passing goose, but follow no one absolutely. CHINESE PROVERB

Andy Pandy��


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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o from June 9:


Quoted from Cristina
ferment bread progress 1:

Those were stainless steel bowls, I have since, transfered the mixtures to glass jars, to keep an eye on their progress, easier to see.  The one with the rubber band has  the soy milk mixture, the other one has the water mixture.

I am suppose to stir them every so often and leave them ferment for a few days, watching their texture, smell ..

Strangely enough, after a few hours, the water mixture has thicken up a lot more than the soy milk mixture, yet, at the start, the water mixture was a lot more runnier than the soy milk one.  

Both mixture shown a few bubble holes indicative of some activity.  I have given them a couple of stirs so far ...

Smell wise, I do not notice any difference between the two, they both smell floury/yogury to me ...  




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Cristina
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b/o from later on June 9:

Quoted from Cristina
ferment bread progress 2:

After a good 21hr brewing (may be not the right word to use, but cannot think of any other now), I noticed that the soy milk mixture has developed an oily liquid layer on top, it has thicken up a bit, but not as much as the water one.  No changes in the smell of either.  Also I should point out that the water mixture is a lot whitish in color than the soy milk mixture.  They both had a good stir and I will probably leave them alone until the morning.  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o from June 10:

Quoted from Cristina
ferment bread progress 3:

Getting on the third day since I started the 'starters'.  I think the cold weather is not very encouraging for the little pets to do their thing!!

They both still smell nice and look healthy.  The soy milk base starter developed a bigger layer of oil at the top.  I have now removed this layer, I believe it to be the oil they use on soy milk!! As expected it floats to the top forming a barrier (which we do not want) between the mixture and the air.  So, oil out, I will keep on removing it as more builds up at the top.  

Makes me think how much oil is in these commercial milks!!  It pays to do your own, but I ran out of beans and they did not have them at the shop last time I went! Bonsoy milk should not have this problem, but I was finishing off the other brand milk I had, not thinking about the oil content ... Too late now, lets see what comes out of it ...

So at this stage, the water mixture is still thicker.  I transfered it to a bowl, as instructed in Nourishing Traditions, feed it some more flour (1 cup) and more water (1 cup), stir it and back into the glass jar it went.

I also added a bit more flour to the soy milk one, but not water because it is soupy enough compared to the water base one ...  Hope this is making sense.  I will summarize everything at the end ...  

PS: feel free to chip in with comment if you tried something similar before and want  to share  ides ...




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o from June 11:

Quoted from Cristina
ferment bread progress 4

Well, 2:00am and here I am after the soccer fanatics at home spent the night watching the first game of the world cup.  To their disgust I went to bed before 9:00pm!!  But here I am now, sipping a cup of tea and taking this opportunity to attend to my two new pets: soy milk and water fermented bread starters!

What a difference a few hours had made!!  My rescue efforts for the soy milk one had worked wonders!!  The water culture has actually outgrown its jar, bubbling happily away, multiplying beautifully!!  The soy milk one, all of a sudden has woken up and in gratitude for me liberating them from that 'gulf type' oil barrier have double in size and is also bubbling away!!

I need at least 3 quarts of each culture to make the breads, so I will keep on feeding them until desired quantity is reached.  I added one cup of flour and one cup of water to each culture and whisk away to smooth the flour in nicely.  Since I do not have big enough glass jars (take shopping note), they are now sitting in two stainless steel bowls bubbling away ... (cone base bow with soy culture, rounded bowl with water culture, they are both fairly similar in color, texture and smell, sign that the lactic creatures are doing their job? digesting their medium and producing what they are meant to ....)

I am feeling confident this is going to be a success!!!  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o from June 11:

Quoted from Jenny
Cristina, I need to start a water culture sour dough for the man, who can't use soy or milk (Explorer)  ..hoping to gain confidence from your trial. Is what you are doing a fairly routine sour dough process?
I made a spelt loaf from your recipe, adjusting some of the proportions, ie less molasses, more yeast, and it is nice, funnily enough rather like sour dough bread even though it is yeasted. It is much denser than my usual wheat bread. I love my breadmaker, so much fun, and the smell is delicious. One small loaf lasts me a week.




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Cristina
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b/o from June 11:


Quoted from Cristina
Hi Jenny, glad you are enjoying your Spelt bread.  My family loves it!!!  But now with Metta not being able to have any wheat, I think that it will be safer to have the fermented one in the house in case she gets tempted.  It may be less damaging for her ... and certainly a lot more beneficial for the rest of us!

Regarding density of the yested Spelt bread, I have not been able to reproduce the lightness of that one in the picture from the other day.  Mind you, they are all still nice and light !!  I think that it may have something to do with the yougurt I use. That first week I use a yogurt that had a lot of whey sediment, it was the end of the yogurt tub!  Since I have been using new yogurt tubs where the contents are a lot more creamier and less wheayish, if you get the idea ...  

The water culture I am trying  is very similar to the Nourishing Traditions one, except that they use Rye flour and that is not compliant for some of us.

The Soy one is based on some I have done before many moons ago, but using real cow's milk.  it is my first experiment with soy milk.  Still using cow's yogurt though.   Will keep posting the process ...




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Cristina
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b/o June 13th:


Quoted from Cristina
ferment bread progress 5

So far I have added 3 cups of flour to the starter.  This morning I took some pictures of both starters before and after adding one more cup.  So the photos in the glass containers are from just after adding the 4th cup of flour.  

They both started with one cup of flour, but as you can see by the photos, the soy milk one (in the 2 litre water jug) has outgrown its water counterpart in the glass 2 litre container (1litre = 1 quart).  The soy milk one took off the moment I removed that oily film (remember? from the oily soy milk a few post back).  They are both doing well, considering how cold it is here.  They have outgrown their location on top of my warm router, so they have been sitting on a filing cabinet in the warmest corner of my office space, away from drafts ...

Once they reach the 3 litres stage, I will make the breads!! One or two days at the most ... all going well ...
Going to photobucket to add the photos and then PS: them here...






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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o June 13th:


Quoted from Cristina
ferment bread progress 6:

These little creatures are really happy!!  The soy milk one has gone berserk!! It has overgrown the glass jar! The water base one has about 4cm about 2" of bubbles, a bit slow but very active too.  Check the photo:


So, back to a bigger stainless steel bowl they go, I do not have any glass containers big enough to hold the 3 litre (3quarts) mixture!!  I transfered them to the bowls and added the 5th cup of flour.  This is great, I was expected to only add this tomorrow, but although it has only been about 8hours since I added the 4th cup this morning, they are growing so well, so I keep them happy by feeding them good stuff: flour and water (Yes, remember, everytime I add a cup of flour, I also add same amount of water).  At this rate, I will be making fermented bread tomorrow night!!!
These are the photos taken immediately after whisking in the 5th cup of flour.  The bowl with the wider rim is the one with the water mixture.

Of course they are covered with light material to keep them safe from foreigh matter, but still allow the goodies in the atmosphere in my home to home in the mixture and chump chomp chump  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jenny
I'm up to 24 hours on my starter..I am using only spelt flour and bottled water, and keeping it in a glass jar in a yoghurt maker..have to use that as there is no where else in my house that has  regular warmth, and we have been going down below freezing regularly in Canberra this past week.It seems too hot in the yoghurt maker actually, but if it is alright for yoghurt, surely it would be ok for the natural yeasties?.
Not much action yet, but I see a few bubbles.
My question is, how much of the starter do I use when I eventually get to use it?
My guess would be that I use it instead of the water quotient in the recipe, of course eliminating the dried yeast quotient. Would this be right?
I will also be attempting to create a diffent time sequence on my bread maker so that there is an extended raising/ punching cycle.




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cristina
Hi Jenny, fantastic!!! we can share experiences here!!

yogurt airtight container?  mmmm, the whole idea is to allow the air bacteria to get to your culture, the good stuff will find its way to your starter and get it bubbling soon enough.  If yogurt maker is airtight, it may not be enough air, only what is originally in it?  Suggestions for warm places: Maybe inside the oven with the light on or on top of your coffee maker with a plate in between, or put the slow cook on low with water in it, the lid upside down, place a couple of plates on it and sit the starter on top covered with a cheesecloth or a dishcloth (using a rubber band to hold the cloth so nasties will not get in) ...

I will keep the starter in an airtight container in the fridge when I want it to be in dormant mode, waiting for the next batch of bread making ...

That is my understanding ...

Regarding how much did I make/use, I am explaining that in the next post, reporting on my bread making / preparation day today!!!  I spent the day in the kitchen (well part of it) getting things ready, kneading, forming loaves, creating warm places to rise and cleaning up ....

Ahhhh, so satisfying ....  My arms are so grateful for the exercise too!!  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o June 15th:


Quoted from Cristina
Ferment bread progress 7:

This is for yesterday.  Sorry I did not get to report earlier or took pictures of the start of the 6th cup stage (had visitors at home ...).

Anyhow, at some stage during the day yesterday I got around to my two pet colonies and fed them the 6th cup of flour and water as usual.  Stir away and leave them alone again to do their job.  That's it!! No more cups to add, tomorrow (today) is bread making day!!

This morning  I checked my two starters and they both looked like they peaked at some stage during the few hours prior and then collapsed, as expected!  They had this wine like aroma, not overpowering, but a hint of it and also, as you can see in the photo, they have this liquid layer underneath the top thicker layer.


My efforts of the last few days, have produced me two batches of about 1.5 litres (1.5 quarts) of starters.  Ihave put aside in an airtight container about half a litre from each to  keep them in the fridge until next bread making attempt in a few days time.  

With the 2 x 1.5 litres starters I proceeded to make the breads (next post) ...  
  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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b/o June 15th:


Quoted from Cristina
Fermented bread progress 8:

Nourishing traditions calls for 13 cups of flour, I think I ended up with about 10 cups  in my mixture.

I disolved 1 tablespoon of coarse salt with one cup of water in the starter and then added the flour a couple of cupfuls at a time, kneading it in to form a lovely, elastic, silky soft dough, enough for two big loaves:

Each starter mix with flour, after about 20 minutes of pounding, kneading, turning and now ready to be divided into loaves, bread rolls ...




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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b/o from June 15th:


Quoted from Cristina
Fermented bread progress 9:

I was stuck!! My loaf pans are too small, and not enough of them (I only have one!!  ) I knew I forgot something!! I was meant to buy them but Woolies only had small ones, meant to search somewhere else!!

So I improvised, I took a thick baking tray and using a glass garlic bread type of dish in the middle, I created a pseudo two loaves oven tray.


... and after 3 hours resting, as you can see the glass dish did not do such a good job of staying in the middle, sort of collapsed on top of one of the breads:

Anyhow, after about 1 hr baking at 350F (180C - just under 200 in my oven), I finished with two beautiful, although uneven shaped loaves.  

BTW, we have not cut them yet, but tasted the bits that fell off when removing the glass dish and it is yummy!!!  

This is just the soy based starter, check next post to see what I did with the water based starter:  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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b/o June 15th:


Quoted from Cristina
Fermented bread progress 10:

Now, I still had to find trays and bake the water based dough!!  

I decided to use the breadmaker for half and a muffin tray for 12 bread roll with the other half!
Although I had already knead this though, I pop half of it in the bread container for the machine and set it to just knead.  The machine did it for about 1 hour and then I let it rest for another couple of hours.  After about 3 hours altogether, I let the machine bake the bread (bake only setting).  It did it automatically for 45 minutes!! at the end of which I got this:


Sorry for the quality, but I think I have overworked the camera and it is needing to be recharged!!  If the bread last that long, I will try again tomorrow for better photo.  

And here are the 12 fermented bread (muffin) rolls:

Except that there are now only 9!!  DD tried one and she is now grabbing two more: another one for her and the other for DGD.  DD had tried fermented bread before elsewhere and could not eat it, she loves this one, even without butter! But with Ghee is delicioso!!
Baker in the house !!  
This is now the end of this project, I hope it has encouraged others to try ...




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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b/o from June 16th:


Quoted from Jenny
Cristina, I have not had the lid on the yoghurt maker, I understand about the need for it to be exposed to the air. In fact I really don't think any cover should be required. After a couple of days, there is very little progress using wholemeal spelt flour and pure water, so I may have to start again, perhaps with white flour and some yoghurt after all. I am printing off your reports so that I can refer to it once I start making some progress.




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cristina
Thanks Possum!!

Jenny, I thought you would!!!  I agree with you on the no cover, but out here, I have to, otherwise pesty little insects, even this winter time, can get residence in no time at all!!  If you can use rye flour, nourishing traditions uses that for their starter.  I used organic, white spelt flour which I get from either Woolies, or a wholesaler natural organic shop in 5kg bags!  Rye is black dot for us, so I used Spelt.  According to my process it also took a couple of days before i notice any activity ... But if you say it is bubbling, then it could still be hope ... How many cups of flour have you added already?

Too much heat kills the bacteria, so make sure yogurt maker is not too high ...  Feed them a bit more flour and water and put them somewhere else ... they may have their favorite spot! They seem to like it in my office corner, on top of the filing cabinet behind me ...   no artificial heating in here, just the warm feeling emanating from this forum ...    I must be radiating it to them too  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jenny
I can't alter the temperature on my yoghurt maker, it is fixed at just above blood temp. But this may be too hot. No, it is not really bubbling at all. I only add a tablespoon of flour every day because the container is so small, and I keep the moisture level at about unwhipped cream level.
There is no where else in the house that is consistently warm because overnight we drop to freezing or below, and I don't leave the heater on at night.Perhaps I need to get a pet electric blanket pad!!!
If nothing has happenned by tomorrow, Thursday, which will be about 4 days, I will start again with yoghurt and rye flour. There must be a solution to this, but I have yet to crack it.




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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Cook Right 4 Your Type  ›  Fermenting and sprouting for our Type

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