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tier 1 & 2  This thread currently has 13,044 views. Print Print Thread
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audre2v
Monday, June 20, 2005, 1:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi all,

I've been pouring over LR4YT and I'm confused about Tier 1 & tier 2 foods. If I am basically healthy can I pick benefial foods from Tier 1, Tier 2, and General nutritional sulplementation?

Also, I'm guessing there is a typo in the veggies section on servings.  Should that be 2-3 daily instead of weekly?

Thanks, Audrey
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apositive
Monday, June 20, 2005, 1:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~ teacher ~ probably nonnie
Ee Dan
Ee Dan
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If you are basically, the usual recommendation is to follow tier 1 beneficials and avoids and to consider the tier 2 foods as neutral.

The veggie servings do sound like a typo!


INTJ
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kent
Monday, June 20, 2005, 10:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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You may want to check the errata for LR4YT: http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?cat=1075204426#1075208133 .

This contains a clarification of the tier system (also a note on the frequency issue).
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Lola
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 1:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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page 118 in LR4YT there is a brief explanation of the two tier system.  
Tier One:  maximize health:
Tier Two: overcome disease:
tiers don't apply to non-secretors.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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sue_ab
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 2:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Warrior
Kyosha Nim
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Location: NW Tasmania, Australia
Hi Audrey,

The 2-3 servings of veg weekly should read daily.

I am also basically healthy and eat as many beneficials from tier 1 and tier 2, then as
Yaman said recently if you are still hungry fill up on the general nutritional supplementation section.

That's a great link Kent put up....make sure you check it out Audrey.

Hi Kent and welcome to the forums.

Sue.


BTD'ing for life since 2000
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audre2v
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 12:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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OK, I went to the link from above, and it says "If you are doing the non-secretor version of your ABO plan, you are automatically doing the tier two values, so relax".  I'm guessing the ABO plan is referring to my blood type diet.  Is that right?

Does this also mean, I should be using the Tier 2 list and not combining Tier 1 & 2?

Then there's a note.  "If you are a nonsecretor and MM, use the nonsecretor values in preference to the MM values."  What's MM?

Thanks for answering all my questions!  Audrey
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Lola
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 9:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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audrey,
hope this answers your question:
http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype5.htm


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Connect
Monday, September 5, 2005, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
I just read LR4YT and am confused by the two tiers.

If I am following a weight loss regimen, can I only eat things that are listed on the Two Tier section?  For instance:  eggs aren't listed on either Type I or Type I.  They are listed separately.  How does this figure into everything?  

The book has me completely confused.

Thanks for any guidance.  


INFJ
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kent
Monday, September 5, 2005, 11:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
I just read LR4YT and am confused by the two tiers.
 


The description in the book confuses many people.

This is from the errata:

Tier One is the basis of the diet for everyone.

If you simply wish to maintain and enhance your current level of health, use only Tier One as your basis of beneficials and avoids, and simply add the tier two foods to your neutral category. You'll be doing the 'most important' beneficials and avoids. You can consider this version the 'Blood Type Diet Lite' as it is easy to follow and only requires that you know your ABO type.

You may want to visit this page for additional comments:

http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?answer=1075124989

Also the page contains links to corrections and answers to questions about
the LRFYT book.
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Connect
Monday, September 5, 2005, 11:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
So, if you are following Tier II, then you can have the ones on Tier One and Tier Two, as well?  But if you are following Tier I, you treat everything on Tier Two as a neutral?  

Sorry, I'm still confused.

I know I'm being a pain, but I'm trying to incorporate this diet into my life, and would like to understand it better.

Regarding wheat and corn:  they are marked as neutral, yet Dr. D recommends not having ANY of them if you are trying to overcome chronic disease, lose weight, etc...

Does this include sprouted wheat?  I bought the Ezekiel brand he recommended, but then in LR4YT, it states that you should avoid ALL wheat.  Does this include the sprouted Ezekiel?

I truly appreciate everyone's guidance as I learn this new way of living.  


INFJ
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Connect
Monday, September 5, 2005, 11:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
One other thing Kent:  (I just read the website page

The foods on Tier Two are the MOST beneficial?  Is that the way to look at it?
Eating more of those helps speed recovery?  It really is confusing.....

I'm off to work, but will check back when I get home!  Looking forward to learning more...


INFJ
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kent
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 12:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
So, if you are following Tier II, then you can have the ones on Tier One and Tier Two, as well?  But if you are following Tier I, you treat everything on Tier Two as a neutral?  


Yes, that's it!

For type A, my understanding is that ezekial bread is fine (as long as
all the wheat is sprouted).

However, a few type A's seem to still report problems with sprouted wheat products
(perhaps from allergies or celiac disease).
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 12:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Hmmm...

It would seem to be the other way around.  So, if you are just following the diet loosely:  you shouldn't have the things listed as "Beneficial" on Tier Two?  The items listed as "Beneficial" (such as green beans) on Tier Two only turn into "neutral"???

That seems backwards to me for some reason....

Be back later!!


INFJ
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kent
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 12:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
One other thing Kent:  (I just read the website page
The foods on Tier Two are the MOST beneficial?  Is that the way to look at it?
Eating more of those helps speed recovery?


I consider tier one to have the strongest beneficials and the strongest avoids.

The tier one beneficials and avoids are always the most important to observe.

Observing tier one will be enough for many people to maintain their health.

However, some people already have impaired health and need healing.

These people may have to follow a more strict diet.

So the BTD is refined to exclude the tier two avoids. The most important beneficials
are still in tier one. However, for maximum healing minimize neutrals and use
tier two beneficials instead of the neutrals (do not reduce the quantity of tier one beneficials).

Hope this helps, others may have insights as well.
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Lola
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 3:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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follow the portion and frequency guidelines as outlined in Live Right.  Also,
Peter recommends favoring Tier Two foods for weight loss.

Tier One: maximize health: This level, along with neutral foods for general nutritional supplmentation will suffice for most healthy individuals.

Tier Two: overcome disease: These adaptations are designed for those who are suffering from a chronic disease, or wish to follow the diet at a higher compliance level.


The exercise guidelines per specific blood groups assist with weight loss,
maintaining emotional health, and lowering/stabilizing cortisol levels.
...................................
tier system
EVERYONE should eat according to the Tier ONE food lists, and everyone should choose Beneficials over Neutrals as often as possible. If you desire only moderate compliance, that's as far as you need to go--and you can pretend that all of the foods in the Tier TWO list have the value "Neutral." If, on the other hand, you desire stricter (Tier TWO level) compliance, then you should eat according to BOTH lists COMBINED--not just the list labeled "Tier Two." So if you have been ignoring the distinction between the tiers and treating them as one big list, then you're already aiming for Tier TWO compliance! The way I personally use the Tier system is this: I strive to avoid all foods marked AVOID on either list (Tier TWO compliance), but if I know that circumstances are going to require me to eat an AVOID food, I try to make it one of the ones on the "Tier Two" list because I figure that these are the lesser evils.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 7:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
I think I get it now:  Let's see:

If you are following Tier One:

The Beneficials on Tier Two are still Beneficials, but the ones marked "Avoid" for Tier Two are actually neutrals if you are following the Tier One plan.

If you are following Tier Two:

Then those that are marked "Avoid" (which would be neutrals for those following Tier One) are still AVOIDS.

Basically, the difference in the two tiers isn't in the "Beneficials" it's that some foods are neutrals if you are just trying to maintain, but the are Avoids if you are trying to heal.

Am I getting close???

Thank you!


INFJ
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apositive
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 2:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
Ee Dan
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Someone put it this way, once, that I found very helpful:

Foods going from best to worst would be:

Tier 1 beneficials (Best!)
Tier 2 beneficials
neutrals
Tier 2 avoids
Tier 1 avoids (Worst!)


INTJ
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 3:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
(I think I dreamt about this in my sleep last night!)

One last question and I think I get it...

So, if you are following Tier one:  ALL of the foods on Tier TWO become "neutral"???

Even AVOIDS?  Everything on Tier Two becomes Neutral?


INFJ
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Victoria
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 4:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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I hope I don't further confuse the idea, but here's how I look at it.

If a food is listed as avoid, whether it is tier 1 or tier 2, it is still actuallyan avoid, in truth.
 
However, if you don't want to be so strict with yourself for whatever reason, and you want to allow yourself more leeway than someone who wants to be compliant all the time......Then look at tier 1 as the best beneficials and the worst avoids.  If you want to just be "somewhat compliant".  

If you are going to eat avoids, the ones in tier 2 won't do you as much damage as the ones in tier 1.

Those of us who have had serious illnesses or need serious weight management, will just follow the guidelines in both tiers.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 4:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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Connect14, it is not you. áIt is very confusing. áThis is why I never recommend LR4YT as the first/main BTD book for someone's BTD arsenal*. áIt is a great book in many ways, and one that I highly recommend as being an essential part of one's BTD library/collection, but the tier thing is really confusing (I'm still confused about it and I've been on the BTD since before LR4YT was even a gleam in Dr. D.'s eye!), and also there are a few errors in LR4YT about portion recommendations which really change the liveability of the diet if you don't know that they are errors (fruit portions should be per DAY not per WEEK, as the book says...these errors are cleared up on this site, but not everyone who gets the books also sees this site). áANYWAY, LR4YT is a great book with all kinds of groundbreaking info. (on secretor status and diet in particular), but the tier thing is...not my fave thing ever, let's put it that way.

Therefore, this is what I recommend to people who are in "tiers" over the whole concept of the tiers: áIgnore the tiers and treat beneficials as beneficials, neutrals as neutrals, and avoids as avoids, no matter what "tier" they are in. áThis is how, it turns out, non-secretors like me are supposed to treat the whole thing anyway. áSo, if you are a nonnie, voila, dat's the way to go anyway. áI think secretors can't go wrong by doing that, too.

My advice (and this is just my advice) is to ignore the tiers and go by the food's rating on Typebase4, when in doubt, as that is the updated, gold standard. áYou can certainly go by the rating in the book, LR4YT, if you like, but ignore the "tier system". á Look at the tiers as a system that overlays the main rating system of beneficials, neutrals and avoids but is not a part of it. áOne can choose to use the tier system in addition to the main system, but you don't HAVE to use them at all, which is lucky for those of us who cannot make heads or tails out of it in the first place *lol*!!!

Pretend you are a nonnie and ignore the tiers! áThat's my story and I'm sticking to it!


* The first book should be ER4YT or the encyclopedia...preferrably good old ER4YT.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 5:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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p.s.  Hello!  In case we haven't confused you enough yet, let me just add:

You may wish to look at the following link to a "sticky" (permanent) thread in this forum, which contains more info. on the tier system:

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=lr4yt,m=1119273365


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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apositive
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 6:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~ teacher ~ probably nonnie
Ee Dan
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Quoted from connect14
One last question and I think I get it...

So, if you are following Tier one: áALL of the foods on Tier TWO become "neutral"???

Even AVOIDS? áEverything on Tier Two becomes Neutral?


Yep!  I think you've got it!


INTJ
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
You guys are wonderful.  Thanks for guiding me through this.  I look forward to sharing my experiences with you.  I'm just beginning...

Oh, one last question (Ha!):  Are the beneficials on Tier Two always Beneficials?  Or do they turn into "neutrals" for Tier One people, as well?


INFJ
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apositive
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 8:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~ teacher ~ probably nonnie
Ee Dan
Ee Dan
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Location: New England
Age: 58
Quoted from connect14
Oh, one last question (Ha!): áAre the beneficials on Tier Two always Beneficials? áOr do they turn into "neutrals" for Tier One people, as well?

They are beneficial.  If I understand correctly, they just are not quite as beneficial as the Tier One beneficials.


INTJ
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Henriette Bsec
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 8:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from apositive

They are beneficial. áIf I understand correctly, they just are not quite as beneficial as the Tier One beneficials.


Yep I agree !
I still like the 1,2,3,4,5 version as you wrote about earlier ... I think it is easier to understand.



ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
0 rh- secr ( Hunter or Explorer )
Diamonds, superfoods, Neutral,*black dots, avoids
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