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ginnyTN
Wednesday, January 1, 2014, 11:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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For the past almost 6 years I have been following the Type A nonnie BTD, and I have relied organic soy beans for a very significant portion of my protein intake - especially for breakfast!

My doctor has mentioned that I need more protein the last 3 times I've had my 6 months blood work done.  

I have printed out my new SWAMI Xpress food list and now all soy and soy products are either avoids or black dot avoids!  YIPES!  

I do not know how on earth I can get the amount of protein I need when I have no access to most of the superfoods on my list of red meats (3 servings per week) other than lamb.  The other red meat superfoods for me are goat, mutton (which I will not eat) and rabbit.  

There is no way I'm going to eat 3 meals of factory farm lamb a week, both because of the quality of the meat and the fact that even though I really like lamb I can't stomach THAT much of it.  

Same problem: no access to the poultry superfoods (3 servings per week) other than organic turkey and factory farm raised cornish hen.  The other poultry super foods on my list are goose, ostrich, partridge, pheasant, quail, and squab.  I have no idea where to even begin to look for those things, living in middle Tennessee, 60 miles from Knoxville and Nashville, and because of back and leg problems not being able to drive that far except in an emergency.

When it comes to seafood/fish, I can buy a few of the things on my list and have a goodly stock of wild caught canned red and pink salmon.  There is absolutely no such thing as fresh fish where I live, so the other kinds of fish have to be purchased frozen if I can even find them that are wild caught.  

Questions:  

1.  Do I HAVE to eat 3 servings of red meat a week?  Would more servings of poultry OR fish make up for almost no servings of red meat?  
2.  Is it OK to just eat the turkey, and the neutral organic chicken sometimes?

I was pretty happy with my new food list but the more I read here on the forums and the more I study the categories, the more concerns I have about my protein intake.  

YES, I eat all the servings of seeds and nuts per week that I'm allowed (love 'em all!), and probably even more than I should.  

Help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  


6 years on ER BTD, went from sick and dying to healthier And 30 pounds slimmer.  

Dec 2013: Started Swami Xpress - I'm 48% Explorer with hybridized Explorer/BTD list. A new adventure for this old lady!  -- LOST 5 more pounds on SWAMI! 
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SquarePeg
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 12:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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What other vegetable protein choices do you have?  What about eggs?

I don't need animal protein at all meals.  Sometimes adzuki beans, black beans or black-eyed peas work well for me.  Also, my quick breakfast involves almond butter.

Do you know why your doctor wants you to get more protein?  Perhaps he or she just wants you to have fewer carbs, in which case you might increase healthy fats (ghee, olive oil for me).

Good luck!


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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C_Sharp
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 1:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I eat no red meat servings a week even though lamb rates well for me.  

As I recall 80-90% of lamb in US lamb is imported from Australia and New Zealand.  You may not be able to get organic lamb, but you can probably obtain some lamb that is not a factory farm product.

Rabbits you may be able to make friends with some people in your local area that raise rabbits.
I brought lamb direct from people raising it until SWAMI rated rabbit poorly for me.

I really like Ostrich and I used to buy it in health food stores. But you can also buy it direct.

I do not know where you are in Tennessee, but in case this is close:

Tennessee Ostrich Company, 2026 Bundren Mountain Road, Tazewell, TN, 37879

I eat Turkey, and I am not always able to afford organic.

Like SqaurePeg I am using eggs for protein (I used to use several types, but currently using chicken as they are easier to get).

I have found goose, partridge, pheasant, and quail at grocery stores (not all at the same time).

For lamb/goat I sometimes use hispanic groceries or butcher shops. They have sometimes had rabbits and some of the birds as well.

Fish & snails I often buy canned.




If you are trying to replace soy you might want to look at what other beans are on your vegetable protein list.  Pinto, great northern, and black all work well for me.




MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Lola
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 2:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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"complete protein".

Legumes + seeds
Legumes + nuts
Legumes + dairy
Grains + legumes
Grains + dairy
the exception is soy protein which is a complete protien and an plant protien
Fermenting removes most of the phytates which
interferes with mineral absorption, it also
helps to inactivate the protease inhibitors
which interfere with protein digestion


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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shoulderblade
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 4:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think the protein compliment matchings described above by Lola are very much worth looking into. All sorts of dishes can be protein fortified by the addition of the correct match. Not only are you adding directly but you also add to the usability of each incomplete protein by supplying its 'fixer'.

Some additions are quite easy such as beans or bean flour to pasta dishes, bean flour to cooked cereals such as oatmeal or a bean based Hummus with bread. Once you catch on to the compliment pairs and their sources it is a matter of composing with 'mix and match' in mind. Good Luck.





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aussielady582
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 4:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Keep us informed with what you decide, I am a type O, but I know that many medical doctors still think we all need red meat for iron/ protein, and cows milk for calcium.......
It should be easy to get enough protein from other sources such as nuts/seeds, green leafy vegetables, fish or whatever.
Sometimes, a person needs to improve their assimilation of nutrients and/or elimination too from their intestines, which may involve some extracted drinks like green smoothies in a really good machine like the Nutri Bullet, or eating the beans and or rice, around lunch time when our digestive strength may be stronger or metabolism is higher, esp if you get a chance to exercise in the morning.  I made hummus for lunch today, ate it with raw veg which has vitamin C which helps some nutrients to be absorbed, and parsley for the iron, with some warmed in the steamer sprouted khorasan bread, chewed well and slowly so that my system can digest it well.
This afternoon I will have carrot juice with some nuts for a snack, then another extracted Nutri Blast for dinner,... will make a detox one (raw broccoli, raw asparagus, raw spinach or kale, one apple with skin, some high antioxidant berries, maybe a little water melon), with some nuts for fat and extra minerals. Am awaiting some hemp seeds to be delivered so I can add them to my nutri blasts soon!... Best of luck ginnyTN.
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ginnyTN
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 5:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for all of your posts.  A lot of the suggestions you very nice folks have made are things I cannot do - like using raw broccoli, kale, etc. which would give me intense intestinal pain for hours.  

Perhaps I wrote too much in my post because it seems no one has understood the problem.  ALL forms of soy are now black dots for me.  

So, let's try again - with these two questions:  

My food list says I need 3 servings per week of red meats.

Do I NEED that red meat or is that what I am allowed?????  

AND if I don't eat the red meat can I eat more servings of fish and poultry instead?????



6 years on ER BTD, went from sick and dying to healthier And 30 pounds slimmer.  

Dec 2013: Started Swami Xpress - I'm 48% Explorer with hybridized Explorer/BTD list. A new adventure for this old lady!  -- LOST 5 more pounds on SWAMI! 
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san j
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 5:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
"complete protein".

Legumes + seeds
Legumes + nuts
Legumes + dairy
Grains + legumes
Grains + dairy
the exception is soy protein which is a complete protien and an plant protien

Quoted from shoulderblade
Some additions are quite easy such as beans or bean flour to pasta dishes, bean flour to cooked cereals such as oatmeal or a bean based Hummus with bread.


I dunno, sb.
If you're calling hummus and bread (or bean flour and pasta) a complete protein along with the other Lola-suggested combinations, sufficient protein should be present in the dairy-"grain" combination of bread-'n-butter or Fettucine Alfredo. I'd think that, for A's, a whole grain, rather than a flour product, along with a whole legume -rather than "bean flour"- is what can constitute a "whole protein". Bean-flour plus grain-flour?
Whole oats with whole nuts could work, for instance. Wouldn't that be superior? I do notice that Lola doesn't include "grains + nuts" or "grains + seeds".
But I do agree re: combining these vegetable proteins with grains. Such kept this B going during my macrobiotic days during the 1980s.  


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shoulderblade
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 6:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j

I'd think that, for A's, a whole grain, rather than a flour product, along with a whole legume -rather than "bean flour"- is what can constitute a "whole protein".  


I was going on a more strictly chemical basis omitting consideration of fats and fiber or whatever. On that basis mixing vegetable protein groups correctly amplifies the results in terms of useful protein yield.(i.e. 1+1=2 becomes 1+1=2+x.)
Quoted from ginnyTN


Do I NEED that red meat or is that what I am allowed?????  

AND if I don't eat the red meat can I eat more servings of fish and poultry instead?????



I am not sure whether the recommendations are binding or not but replacing red meat with fish and/or poultry would cover the protein angle though it may miss the mark somewhere else.






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Amazone I.
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 8:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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would give a try to MAP.... as supplements.... so no problems  with your kidneys then ....and what's about the A- protein shake .....


MIfHI K-174

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geminisue
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It says 3 servings of red meat=you need red meat 3 times a week  (if something says 0-3 times a week, then you don't need it at all, but your allowed it up to 3 times a week)

You can not add more of another to replace what you don't want to eat like you are asking about (poultry and fish)

remember if the ounces per serving is 2-5 ounces you can eat the 2 oz. three times a week, instead of the 5oz 3 times a week.

google legumes, you may find foods that you can have that you never thought was legumes- it is an interesting list
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C_Sharp
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 2:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
and what's about the A- protein shake ...


The A protein powder contains soy.

The O protein powder might work.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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C_Sharp
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SWAMI XP2 will be out shortly. It will include Semi Vegetarian (A B AB O) option that removes red meat from the report. You can run SWAMI this way and not any changes (In my limited testing of this feature, little changes in other categories).


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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C_Sharp
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 3:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from geminisue
It says 3 servings of red meat=you need red meat 3 times a week  (if something says 0-3 times a week, then you don't need it at all, but your allowed it up to 3 times a week)


In my limited experience in reviewing SWAMI reports there is no flexibility in the frequency of listed servings in a SWAMI diet report other than in condiments ( which normally has a value of Frequency: 0 to 1 serving as needed.).



MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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C_Sharp
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Quoted from ginnyTN
Do I NEED that red meat or is that what I am allowed?


Probably, none of us can answer that for you.

Each person is an individual.

To determine for yourself if you do better with or without red meet, I would wait until I had used SWAMI as suggested for 90 days, then I would try not eating red meat for four weeks (upping  other categories as you think is appropriate or tell SWAMI to do it for you by adjusting the setting for "Category Portion Size and Frequency" for more food).

If after not using red meat for several weeks you cannot tell a difference, I would had it back and see how I felt. If it is not helping you then one could drop it from the diet, except for social occasions where it is served to you.




I have a single 4-6 ounce serving of red meat each week. This can be lamb, mutton, or goat. All of these foods (regardless of purity) give me headaches if I eat them.  I see no reason to make myself sick in order to comply with my SWAMI report.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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battle dwarf
Thursday, January 2, 2014, 4:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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out here in Arkansas organic is a dream unless you grow it yourself. I am happy to get the right food at all. if you are close to a Kroger check their departments out very carefully. I have even found rabbit in the frozen meat coolers occasionaly. there are a few places online that will ship you just about anything. my aunt (the holistic practoner who lives out your way) like blackwing online
http://www.blackwing.com/
they seem to have it all and she is very happy with the quality most of the time. if I was not living on the edge of a financial crash all the time I would love to get hold of some of the buffalo and the turkey my aunt brought to our wedding was great


nothing to do? who has that!?
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ruthiegirl
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Quoted from ginnyTN
My food list says I need 3 servings per week of red meats.

Do I NEED that red meat or is that what I am allowed?????  

AND if I don't eat the red meat can I eat more servings of fish and poultry instead?????


It would be best to get 3 servings of red meat a week if you can manage it. If you can't, make sure you get enough total servings of protein by increasing poultry and/or fish and/or egg servings.

As an O, I have a HUGE list of beneficial meats, poultry, and fish. But I'm on a tight budget and I can't afford to buy lamb more than once or twice a year. I buy turkey (in a few different cuts) and ground beef. That's IT for the raw meat and poultry I purchase on a regular basis. I also buy canned tuna and sardines, and occasionally salmon. I don't ever buy fresh fish because it's too expensive, and the ones that are certified kosher are usually farm raised.

I eat a wide variety of vegetables and spices, both neutral and beneficial (and some black dots, when they show up in the CSA box.) But my animal proteins choices are very limited.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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ginnyTN
Friday, January 3, 2014, 12:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It is NOT that I don't want to eat red meat.  It IS that I can't find the ones on my list that are not factory farmed.  I can get lamb, but it is "raised in the USA" and that means junk food in my book.  One time, about 10 years ago, one of our local grocery stores had lamb from New Zealand.  Not since then.  

My friend Donna who knows a whole lot more people than I do says she will ask around and see if there might be a local farmer who would raise a goat that we could go half and half on together.  

There is one farmer in the area who sells lamb that he grows.  I need to find out who he is and give him a phone call to find out if his lambs are 100% pastured, if he uses antibiotics, etc.  Most people around here are good about answering questions like that without getting offended.  

THEN I have to figure how to get more meat in my freezer since it is usually full of organic fruit and veggies (and some organic turkey) - because I can't buy hardly any of those at our local stores either........at least not in a fresh enough condition that I'd want to bring them home!  

Our store situation here is pathetic! I wish we could drive to Knoxville or Nashville like we used to do several years ago.  There are stores like EarthFare, Whole Foods, etc. in those cities.  But we can't.    



6 years on ER BTD, went from sick and dying to healthier And 30 pounds slimmer.  

Dec 2013: Started Swami Xpress - I'm 48% Explorer with hybridized Explorer/BTD list. A new adventure for this old lady!  -- LOST 5 more pounds on SWAMI! 
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ginnyTN
Friday, January 3, 2014, 12:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from battle dwarf
there are a few places online that will ship you just about anything. my aunt (the holistic practoner who lives out your way) like blackwing online
http://www.blackwing.com/
they seem to have it all and she is very happy with the quality most of the time.


THANK YOU, BD, for that link.  Blackwing is all the way up in Illinois, but will check them out and see what their shipping rates are.  At least I know that if I'm willing to pay an arm and a leg I CAN get the meats listed on my SWAMI......





6 years on ER BTD, went from sick and dying to healthier And 30 pounds slimmer.  

Dec 2013: Started Swami Xpress - I'm 48% Explorer with hybridized Explorer/BTD list. A new adventure for this old lady!  -- LOST 5 more pounds on SWAMI! 
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Miss Dashwood
Friday, January 3, 2014, 1:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Ginny,

I know these are pricey, but these places have sales/specials on their meats quite often.  I have had shipments to my doorstep from all and they arrive well frozen in thermal controlled styro/boxed packages:

http://buyexoticmeats.com/phduqusqpoga.html
http://fossilfarmsostrich.com/shipping_info.htm
http://www.grasslandbeef.com/StoreFront.bok


"red meat" can include organ meats (check your SWAMI) which can be a great deal less than steaks or chops. Beef and lamb hearts are excellent as are: lamb liver, squab, rabbit, ostrich, emu, buffalo.

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Miss Dashwood
Friday, January 3, 2014, 2:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I also wanted to share for Type Os having difficulty with various protein sources that gelatin is relatively high in protein and is great for the healing of intestinal "leaky gut" issues. (I like the kosher beef unflavored from Great Lakes.)  I often slip it into my flax and buckwheat breads, muffins, waffles etc because it helps to hold a crumbly texture together with it's gummieness.

http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/products.php
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deblynn3
Friday, January 3, 2014, 2:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Also see if there is an Amish community. If they have a store. (many do) they should be organic as well.

once a long time ago. a thread was up with a resource list of place to get food stuffs. I'm to tired to make the effort. right now.


Swami, 100% me..
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deblynn3
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Quoted from Miss Dashwood
I also wanted to share for Type Os having difficulty with various protein sources that gelatin is relatively high in protein and is great for the healing of intestinal "leaky gut" issues. (I like the kosher beef unflavored from Great Lakes.)  I often slip it into my flax and buckwheat breads, muffins, waffles etc because it helps to hold a crumbly texture together with it's gummieness.

http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/products.php


I just got some of this to make elderberry cough drops, and children's gummy bear candies, healthy style.  Good to know, can add to several swami recipes.


Swami, 100% me..
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ginnyTN
Friday, January 3, 2014, 2:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Miss Dashwood
Hi Ginny,

I know these are pricey, but these places have sales/specials on their meats quite often.  I have had shipments to my doorstep from all and they arrive well frozen in thermal controlled styro/boxed packages:

http://buyexoticmeats.com/phduqusqpoga.html
http://fossilfarmsostrich.com/shipping_info.htm
http://www.grasslandbeef.com/StoreFront.bok

"red meat" can include organ meats (check your SWAMI) which can be a great deal less than steaks or chops. Beef and lamb hearts are excellent as are: lamb liver, squab, rabbit, ostrich, emu, buffalo.


Thanks ever so much for those links.  It is wonderful to have a few places to compare prices!  And shipping varies a whole lot from one to another also.  I love organ meats but unfortunately none are listed on my food list, except calf and chicken liver which are both black dots.

For the first several weeks I am trying hard to concentrate on eating as many diamonds in every category as I possibly can - have to use a few neutrals.  

But with "a little help from my friends" here I feel like I'm making progress.


6 years on ER BTD, went from sick and dying to healthier And 30 pounds slimmer.  

Dec 2013: Started Swami Xpress - I'm 48% Explorer with hybridized Explorer/BTD list. A new adventure for this old lady!  -- LOST 5 more pounds on SWAMI! 
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aussielady582
Friday, January 3, 2014, 4:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ginnyTN, let your body tell you what you need in terms of red meat, I'm not sure how others can tell you this as they don't know how your body/system responds to red meat.  If your have good metabolism in your system, then I guess the red meat may digest down well and quickly, esp if your have good hcl levels in your stomach.
I can't eat red meat at all, due to the way it affects my middle organs and also slows down my elimination, and leads to dryness in the intestines, as does corn, cheese, whole fat yoghurt,and dried baked wheat products.  Also, the raw broccoli etc will only cause gas/wind if there is old waste sticking to the sides of the colon/large intestine and if the intestines are weak and out of shape.  I am finding it easier and easier to eat raw, and one can make an extracted meal of the vegetables so that it is more fluid and easier to digest.  Or just do stir-fried vegetables at lunch time, so that the veg is semi-raw, serve with rice or quinoa (which is high in protein in its own right).  Cooked veg may suit sometimes or some people, but I find raw is far more effective, in terms of detoxing, and more nutrition, and cleanses the large intestine more completely. I still eat cooked sweet potatoe and pumpkin.
I lived there at one time, in the state of Nevada and easily bought NZ lamb; I always thought most lamb is pasture raised and good source of omega 3 fats.
I'm not sure why you feel you need red meat or even why a dr would suggest it, when protein is easily sourced from fish, or other sources ie eggs, nuts, seeds, green leafy vegetables, broccoli, legumes.  Even rice provides protein.
Most people get far too much protein which is mostly acidic and causes minerals to be leached from bones, nails, teeth, plus is hard on the kidneys, and takes a long time to digest with people who have slow cellular metabolism.  Red meat also has no fibre....Isn't it fresh vegetables many of us need more of to increase function of organs such as liver, pancreas, gall bladder...as the veg has protein, fibre, minerals, vitamins, antioxidants, and keeps the intestines nice and moist, so that beneficial flora can flourish, which then leads to balanced hormones, and brain chemistry.
Let your system guide how, if you feel good with less red meat, then don't worry, eat what makes you feel good and allows YOUR system to work effectively...your fuel may differ from the fuel tha other people need for their body/system.
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  Need help with new protein list

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