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Cheryl
Monday, January 23, 2012, 4:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My Swami says 'live food' tomato is an avoid, while beverages list tomato juice as neutral.  Where does tomato sauce/spaghetti sauce come in? Tomato/spaghetti sauce is not listed anywhere.  And while I'm on the subject of 'maters...what's the difference between the affect of tomatoes against tomatillos - which are listed for me as a neutral?  
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ABJoe
Monday, January 23, 2012, 4:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Depends on how much of the tomato is used in the sauce.  My guess is that both sauces would fall closer to the avoid status because more of the flesh is included in the end product.

I don't know the difference between tomato and tomatillo.


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san j
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 2:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cheryl
My Swami says 'live food' tomato is an avoid, while beverages list tomato juice as neutral.  


Anyone know why there's a difference, or where this is explained?



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balletomane
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 6:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This question seems to have been asked a million times but I haven't gotten a solid answer anywhere yet. I really want to know, too!


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C_Sharp
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 6:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Processed foods have different concentration of nutrients (and toxins) than the original food. The concentration of substances determines the rating of foods. Some substance are chemically altered in processing, ...

Since 240 factors are considered when rating foods it is hard to say whether it was the amount of Alanine, or Copper or Daidzein or Flouride or Fructose or Hesperetin or Lectins or Niacin or Pesticides or Quercetin or Vitamin_A .... that made the difference in any particular case.

Also when foods are in different categories they are compared against other foods in the category. So the alternatives in beverages may be different that alternatives in live foods.

In general most of us do not know what is important in a specific case, but we know many factors are considered in determining a rating.


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Lola
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 7:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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    these were taken into consideration when running my swami avoid rational for tomato
GT1 Epigenotoxin (Genetically Modified)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Rutin Phenolics)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Tyramine Phenolics)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Lectin)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Chitinase allergens)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (High Gallic acid concentration)
    Blood Group O Non secretor Blood Group O Non secretor Metabolotoxin (anti-metabolite)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Coumarin Phenolics)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Glycotoxin)
and for tomato juice avoid status as well for me
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (Lectin)
    GT1 Epigenotoxin (High Gallic acid concentration)
    Blood Group O Non secretor Blood Group O Non secretor Metabolotoxin (anti-metabolite)

I believe Dr D has done the math when computing all my variables and algorhythms......


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Lola
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 7:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cheryl,
the sauce does go through a cooking process......


and about the juice part

Quoted Text
Dr D
Many fruit juices are higher in specific nutrients (flavones, lignans, etc) than the whole fruit.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 2:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'd still like to see clarification about how "tomato paste" or "tomato sauce" rates, when "tomato" and "tomato juice" have different values.

Does tomato paste/sauce have the same value as "tomato" because the fiber isn't separated out? Or is it more like the juice because it's cooked?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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ABJoe
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 5:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Does tomato paste/sauce have the same value as "tomato" because the fiber isn't separated out? Or is it more like the juice because it's cooked?

I understand your desire for a separate rating for sauce.  I can't provide that.

I do not think cooking can be the only difference, as tomato can be cooked (canned, etc.) as well.


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gardengirl
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 6:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I do have SWAMI but never noticed the tomato juice thing. It's a superfood for me too. I never paid much attention to the drink section as I generally am a water and tea person. I guess I can play around now making a tomato juice sauce of some sort for my meat and stuff, such as adding some tomato juice to a stew for flavor and tenderizing.
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ProudWarrior
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 9:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have posted this same question before and never got an answer either.


Happy to be a Proud Vegan Warrior A+Nonnie  
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C_Sharp
Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 9:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
I don't know the difference between tomato and tomatillo.


Tomatoes are the fruit of Solanum lycopersicum

Tomatillo are the fruit of Physalis philadelphica-These have a husk around the fruit. The fruit is usually green when mature, but can be red, yellow, or purple.

The fruit tastes different. The fruit has a different texture. They have different ratings in SWAMI because the concentration of nutrients and toxins are different from tomatoes.  


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zenphoenix
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 6:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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not that it matters for me... tomato in all its forms are avoid for me, but it is an interesting question.

we had discussed this in another thread else recently, and the answer that we came up with (and i'm sorry i don't recall who suggested this)was that the presence of the damaging lectins would be less in juice than in something that contained the tomato flesh.

I agree with this since tomato juice is really a by-product of preparing tomatoes for a different use.

For example, when canning salsa or making tomato paste, tomatoes are skinned, then the stem end is cut out and all of the liquidy insides (the juicy, seedy bits) are squeezed out and then the remaining fruit is chopped up and put in the cook pot. The liquidy, seedy parts are then strained for tomato juice.

This is a common technique for preparing tomatoes - whether it's for paste or sauce or ketchup or salsa, etc. So the reality is, there is (traditionally speaking) very little tomato pulp that makes it into the juice as it is all reserved for your salsa/sauce/paste. Therefore, no pulp, less lectin (whichever the specific one is for you).


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balletomane
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 6:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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That's really interesting, zenphoenix. So from what you have said, the tomato paste we use for pasta, for example, should be considered juice? The funny thing is that, for me, juice is an avoid while tomato is a superfood! No wonder I feel bloated and sometimes have acid reflux after eating food made with some tomato paste  


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ABJoe
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 7:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from balletomane
So from what you have said, the tomato paste we use for pasta, for example, should be considered juice?

This is incorrect.  He is saying that the juice is removed and the remaining pulp is what is used for paste, sauce, etc...


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balletomane
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 8:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh, thanks for clarifying, ABJoe  


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geminisue
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 9:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Some one who knows the answer

If tomato is an AVOID on swami

1 should jarred spaghetti sauce be eaten?  Yes or No

2 should jarred salsa be eaten?  Yes or No

3 should V8 be drank?  Yes or No

4 should canned tomato juice be drank?  Yes or No

5 Is grape tomatoes included in this avoid?  Yes or No

6 Is cherry tomatoes included in this avoid?  Yes or No
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C_Sharp
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 5:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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1 should jarred spaghetti sauce be eaten? Look at all ingredients in product use the rating for tomatoes for these ingredients: tomatoes, tomato puree, tomato paste, or tomato sauce.

2 should jarred salsa be eaten?  Look at all ingredients in product use the rating for tomatoes for these ingredients: tomatoes, tomato puree, tomato paste, or tomato sauce.

3 should V8 be drank?  Look at all ingredient use the rating for tomato juice for "juices of tomatoes"

4 should canned tomato juice be drank? use the rating for tomato juice

5 Is grape tomatoes included in this avoid?  use the rating for tomatoes (it applies to all varieties)

6 Is cherry tomatoes included in this avoid? use the rating for tomatoes (it applies to all varieties)


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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 7:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So the official answer is "tomato paste and tomato sauce" are "tomatoes" and only the juice is "tomato juice"?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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deblynn3
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 8:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Since I can tomatoes, this is how I understood it after reading "Live Right" usually paste and sauce are cooked down making it more concentrated with the substance we shouldn't have.(book out on loan can't recall the name)  Juice usually has more water and therefore less of that substance.

That's how this dummy understands it.


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deblynn3
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 8:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp


Tomatoes are the fruit of Solanum lycopersicum

Tomatillo are the fruit of Physalis philadelphica-These have a husk around the fruit. The fruit is usually green when mature, but can be red, yellow, or purple.

The fruit tastes different. The fruit has a different texture. They have different ratings in SWAMI because the concentration of nutrients and toxins are different from tomatoes.  


Thanks for this info. I growing these for the first time. How do these taste? Sweeter? I'm planning on make salsa and would like to know. Mine will be purple all the way though


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Cheryl
Thursday, January 26, 2012, 5:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Well, I just got back to my computer and had time to read all of the comments.  I see I'm not the only one intrigued/confused by the logic of the ratings.  I guess I'll just have to stick to olive oil and parmigiana cheese on my rice pasta!!  OR I could try to concoct a tomatillo sauce since that's a neutral for me...might be a little gooey though.  It's a trip!
By the way, c_sharp, I didn't quite understand your response to geminisue.  "Use the rating for... tomatoes...." She had a good question about V8 juice.  Is that considered tomato juice? [not having a label to read, I'm not sure what all is included in the juice combo]
Thanks to everyone who added to the conversation.  
Talk about strangeness....on another subject, but I don't want to start another thread... Tomato = Avoid. Tomato Juice = Neutral... The meat of the food = More Bad Stuff. The liquid from the food = Diluted, less Bad Stuff.
WELL, what about this:  Almonds, Almond Butter,Cheese and Oil [<>] are all Superfoods,  BUT  Almond Milk is an Avoid!!! what the.....?
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deblynn3
Thursday, January 26, 2012, 5:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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google almond milk.  I believe you will find that the store bought stuff has to many avoids but the  milk you make yourself is good.


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Cheryl
Thursday, January 26, 2012, 5:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Okay, the carton lists carrageenan, which is an avoid for me.  But it appears like 4th in the ingredient list.
Have you ever made almond milk?  I never thought about making it myself.  I do use rice milk which is on my superfood list.  I was just bummed that I couldn't use the same drink that my husband uses..almond milk.  thanks Deblynn3!
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C_Sharp
Thursday, January 26, 2012, 5:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cheryl

By the way, c_sharp, I didn't quite understand your response to geminisue.  "Use the rating for... tomatoes...." She had a good question about V8 juice.  Is that considered tomato juice?


You need to consider  every ingredient that is in a product.

Quoted from C_Sharp


3 should V8 be drank?  Look at all ingredient use the rating for tomato juice for "juices of tomatoes"


The  first ingredient in many of the V-8 products is "juices of tomatoes". I said for that ingredient ("Juices of tomatoes") you should use the SWAMI rating for "Tomato Juice".

The SWAMI rating for "Tomato Juice" does not apply to any other juice or other ingredient in V-8 products.


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