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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  IgG Food Antibody Results do not match my SWAMI *
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IgG Food Antibody Results do not match my SWAMI *  This thread currently has 6,437 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty H
Monday, October 31, 2011, 5:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe

From reading the description of both tests, my guess is that the IgG/IgE tests are looking for antibodies in the blood sample, where the Lectins / Blood Groups intolerance / agglutination reaction is from data that pertains to the specific blood type.

Lectin information is based on solid science, so once testing is complete for a blood type, it is applicable to all with that type.  Therefore, this testing doesn't need to be performed for each individual.IgG/IgE testing is variable and even changes per the individual over time.  Not all individuals build antibodies at the same rate, etc., so it is would need to be performed.  I'm also not sure that people build antibodies to lectins.


Ah, but what about the fact that I have a rare blood antigen that was discovered in my paternal uncle back in the 1950's.  He needed a blood transfusion and they tested his blood before giving him the whole blood transfusion.  A seemingly compatible match made his blood agglutinate.  My blood, even though I am an O+ would not be compatible with another O+ unless the donor had the Mg antigen.  Now-a-days it is not an issue because transfusion technology has changed.  This is why I have wondered about lectins and foods that cause agglutination.  It stand to reason if I cannot receive the whole blood of what is considered the universal donor, that my food lectin profile  and foods that agglutinate my blood may be different as well.


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ABJoe
Monday, October 31, 2011, 5:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
Ah, but what about the fact that I have a rare blood antigen that was discovered in my paternal uncle back in the 1950's.  He needed a blood transfusion and they tested his blood before giving him the whole blood transfusion.  A seemingly compatible match made his blood agglutinate.  My blood, even though I am an O+ would not be compatible with another O+ unless the donor had the Mg antigen.  Now-a-days it is not an issue because transfusion technology has changed.  This is why I have wondered about lectins and foods that cause agglutination.  It stand to reason if I cannot receive the whole blood of what is considered the universal donor, that my food lectin profile  and foods that agglutinate my blood may be different as well.

I don't know how the Mg antigen would affect the Lectin information.  I presume, the lectin information would still be mostly accurate, but maybe incomplete - as the Mg antigen isn't accounted for...

Edited to add: It would probably depend largely on how the Mg antigen changed the blood type "shape"...


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Patty H
Monday, October 31, 2011, 5:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe

I don't know how the Mg antigen would affect the Lectin information.  I presume, the lectin information would still be mostly accurate, but maybe incomplete - as the Mg antigen isn't accounted for...



I assume food lectins have never been tested on an individual with the Mg antigen, since it is so rare.


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ruthiegirl
Monday, October 31, 2011, 6:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here are my thoughts:

If blood testing showed that you shouldn't eat certain foods, then you shouldn't eat those foods, no matter what SWAMI says about them. I  have page 1 of this thread open in another tab so I can refer to it easily.

Quoted Text
I have been advised to avoid kidney beans, corn, string beans, oysters, pinto beans, sardines and herring for six months.  All other foods are safe to consume.


I advise you to avoid all those foods for the next 6 months (or indefinitely), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that "all" other foods are safe to consume. I don't have your SWAMI in front of me, but I can guess that kidney beans and corn are avoids anyway, you've mentioned that string beans are a superfood on your SWAMI, and I don't know about oysters, pinto beans, sardines, or herring. There's more to "food is causing damage" than what can be found in this one blood test. Some forms of food-caused damage are more subtle and harder to test for.

I'd suggest that you continue to avoid your SWAMI avoids in addition to the IgG avoids. You probably need to play around with portion sizes and frequencies though, to reflect your ability to digest plant foods and inability to digest animal foods. It's up to you if you want to re-introduce specific plant foods- I know you were talking about eating oatmeal even though it's an O nonnie avoid. There's no need to eat things like peanuts or wheat though, and IMO you're still better off with brown rice and/or rice bran rather than oats and oat bran.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Lola
Monday, October 31, 2011, 7:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty H,
why not contact Dr Nash and let her try to explain Dr D s response to you in layman s terminology, for you to really get it this time.

She is well aware of your Mg antigen thingy and will definitely know and try to explain it has little to do with the issue.

She might even tweak your swami to fit your IgG results and all you can submit to her....
the more information she has about you, the merrier!


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JJR
Monday, October 31, 2011, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Here are my thoughts:

If blood testing showed that you shouldn't eat certain foods, then you shouldn't eat those foods, no matter what SWAMI says about them. I  have page 1 of this thread open in another tab so I can refer to it easily.



I advise you to avoid all those foods for the next 6 months (or indefinitely), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that "all" other foods are safe to consume. I don't have your SWAMI in front of me, but I can guess that kidney beans and corn are avoids anyway, you've mentioned that string beans are a superfood on your SWAMI, and I don't know about oysters, pinto beans, sardines, or herring. There's more to "food is causing damage" than what can be found in this one blood test. Some forms of food-caused damage are more subtle and harder to test for.

I'd suggest that you continue to avoid your SWAMI avoids in addition to the IgG avoids. You probably need to play around with portion sizes and frequencies though, to reflect your ability to digest plant foods and inability to digest animal foods. It's up to you if you want to re-introduce specific plant foods- I know you were talking about eating oatmeal even though it's an O nonnie avoid. There's no need to eat things like peanuts or wheat though, and IMO you're still better off with brown rice and/or rice bran rather than oats and oat bran.



What I'm reading into this thread is: She wants to eat wheat because her IGg says it's OK.  She said she doesn't have any reaction to any foods, so, it's not about what to avoid.  Correct me if I'm wrong PattyH.  None of us can tell you what to do, but if your swami says no wheat, than you have to choose if you're going to trust it or not.  I don't think a computer program can know us better than ourselves, and your intuition is key.  But having said that, it we have the right to be wrong and sometimes the doctors know better.  And I will restate my opinion, most wheat products that you go out and buy at the market, restaurants, etc are highly suspect of being good for anybody.  In my humble opinion.  Now if you go and buy your own wheat berries, cook it straight or mill it yourself, than, that's a different story.  


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Captain_Janeway
Monday, October 31, 2011, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty H.


It's hard to make sense of all this. An IgE antibody is an allergic antibody so if you have any antibodies to specific foods that are IgE then at one time or another you might have been allergic to that food.

IgG is one of those antibodies that shows up as a secondary immune response. For example, if you are exposed to a certain virus  the primary immune respone came by way from the production of IgM antibodies. A second exposure to the same virus will invoke an IgG response. This is what protects you from having a second bout with the exact same virus. But mutations in the virus can change its antigenic structure enough that your natural immunity is unable to afford much protection.

Different parts of the immune system have control over which antibodies are produced and when. IgG antibodies can be set off with the help of the T cells and macrophages. The plasma cells are essentially responsible for the production of our humoral (antibody) immunity. But Tcells may play an important role in food sensitivities and or allergies as regularly as a humoral response.

The answer to your question is actually quite complex and not as simple as antigen/antibody reactions.

Perhaps some foods items you have not had even a primary reaction to so that would explain no secondary response therefore no IgG responses to those foods.

As to what Dr. D. was saying in his post antibodies are essentially specific as to what they react to but sometimes they can react non-specifically as well.


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Captain_Janeway  -  Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 3:56pm
Captain_Janeway  -  Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 3:55pm
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Patty H
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
Patty H,
why not contact Dr Nash and let her try to explain Dr D s response to you in layman s terminology, for you to really get it this time.

She is well aware of your Mg antigen thingy and will definitely know and try to explain it has little to do with the issue.

She might even tweak your swami to fit your IgG results and all you can submit to her....
the more information she has about you, the merrier!


Lola, I do plan to contact Dr. Nash with all my results but I need some additional testing completed and right now my funds are rather low, so I need to wait until I can afford the additional testing, which should finish the testing my doctor wants to do.  Then my plan is to send Dr. Nash all my testing and set up a phone conference.  I am not sure when I will have the funds to complete the testing, so I came here for some answers first, hoping that someone would be familiar enough with this testing to advise me in the interim.


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Patty H
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Here are my thoughts:

If blood testing showed that you shouldn't eat certain foods, then you shouldn't eat those foods, no matter what SWAMI says about them. I  have page 1 of this thread open in another tab so I can refer to it easily.



I advise you to avoid all those foods for the next 6 months (or indefinitely), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that "all" other foods are safe to consume. I don't have your SWAMI in front of me, but I can guess that kidney beans and corn are avoids anyway, you've mentioned that string beans are a superfood on your SWAMI, and I don't know about oysters, pinto beans, sardines, or herring. There's more to "food is causing damage" than what can be found in this one blood test. Some forms of food-caused damage are more subtle and harder to test for.

I'd suggest that you continue to avoid your SWAMI avoids in addition to the IgG avoids. You probably need to play around with portion sizes and frequencies though, to reflect your ability to digest plant foods and inability to digest animal foods. It's up to you if you want to re-introduce specific plant foods- I know you were talking about eating oatmeal even though it's an O nonnie avoid. There's no need to eat things like peanuts or wheat though, and IMO you're still better off with brown rice and/or rice bran rather than oats and oat bran.


Ruthie, thanks for this advice.  I have so many questions now, it is difficult to know what to eat and what not to eat.  I am an O who has a difficult time metabolizing animal fat and now all grains, with the exception of corn, seem to be ok for me.  I am not making any serious changes to my diet, although I am eating some avoids now as a test, and frankly I feel no issues.  I need to get to the bottom of all of this so I have a definitive plan.  That is how I function best!

Right now, I feel a bit like the odd man (woman) out, if you know what I mean  


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Patty H
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JJR



What I'm reading into this thread is: She wants to eat wheat because her IGg says it's OK.  She said she doesn't have any reaction to any foods, so, it's not about what to avoid.  Correct me if I'm wrong PattyH.  None of us can tell you what to do, but if your swami says no wheat, than you have to choose if you're going to trust it or not.  I don't think a computer program can know us better than ourselves, and your intuition is key.  But having said that, it we have the right to be wrong and sometimes the doctors know better.  And I will restate my opinion, most wheat products that you go out and buy at the market, restaurants, etc are highly suspect of being good for anybody.  In my humble opinion.  Now if you go and buy your own wheat berries, cook it straight or mill it yourself, than, that's a different story.  


ABJoe, your insight and responses have been clear and concise.  Thank you.  I appreciate that.  It is not that I want to eat wheat.  It is that my doctor says I CAN eat wheat, oats, etc.  Since I need to cut back on animal fat, I need to look at other foods that I can eat.  Combine all of this information with the fact that I am an APO E4/3 - see the separate thread on The Perfect Gene Diet - and the author of the book says that people with my genotype, not GenoType according to Dr. D, should eat a high carb diet, consisting of whole, organic grains and fruits and vegetables along with moderate amount of animal protein, mostly consisting of fish, some chicken and basically no red meat.

So now you can see that I am putting many components of the testing I have done together to try to understand what is the best diet for me to avoid my family history of premature, severe heart disease.  My APO E genotype is no surprise, given my family history.  I am not saying I would base a diet on one gene, but it certainly is a gene that tends to speak LOUDLY in my family  

My goal is to explore and embrace my unique individuality and eat a diet that will help to minimize my risk of heart disease.  Funny that I don't seem to fit the typical O profile, but there are exceptions to every rule.


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Patty H
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Captain_Janeway
Patty H.


It's hard to make sense of all this. An IgE antibody is an allergic antibody so if you have any antibodies to specific foods that are IgE then at one time or another you might have been allergic to that food.

IgG is one of those antibodies that shows up as a secondary immune response. if you are exposed to a certain virus for example the primary immune respone came by way from the production of IgM antibodies. A second exposure to the same virus will invoke an IgG response. This is what protects you from having a second bout with the exact same virus. But mutations in the virus can change its antigenic structure enough that your natural immunity is unable to afford much protection.

Different parts of the immune system have control over which antibodies are produced and when. IgG antibodies can be set off with the help of the T cells and macrophages. The plasma cells are essentially responsible for the production of our humoral (antibody) immunity. But Tcells may play an important role in food sensitivities and or allergies as regularly as a humoral response.

The answer to your question is actually quite complex and not as simple as antigen/antibody reactions.

Perhaps some foods items you have not had even a primary reaction to so that would explain no secondary response therefore no IgG responses to those foods.

As to what Dr. D. was saying in his post antibodies are essentially specific as to what they react to but sometimes they can react non-specifically as well.


Thank you for such a detailed response.  You obviously know what your are talking about.  Would it be possible for you to explain this in more laymens terms?  I reacted to very few foods.  In fact, my only strong response was to curry powder.  I had a moderate response to kidney beans and a mild response to a few other foods listed earlier in this post.  Are you saying that at one time I may have been allergic to things like wheat and dairy, but now I am not?  Sorry to sound like such a dummy here, but I really want to understand what you are saying.  THANK YOU!!!  Patty


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JJR
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H


ABJoe, your insight and responses have been clear and concise.  Thank you.  I appreciate that.  It is not that I want to eat wheat.  It is that my doctor says I CAN eat wheat, oats, etc.  Since I need to cut back on animal fat, I need to look at other foods that I can eat.  Combine all of this information with the fact that I am an APO E4/3 - see the separate thread on The Perfect Gene Diet - and the author of the book says that people with my genotype, not GenoType according to Dr. D, should eat a high carb diet, consisting of whole, organic grains and fruits and vegetables along with moderate amount of animal protein, mostly consisting of fish, some chicken and basically no red meat.

So now you can see that I am putting many components of the testing I have done together to try to understand what is the best diet for me to avoid my family history of premature, severe heart disease.  My APO E genotype is no surprise, given my family history.  I am not saying I would base a diet on one gene, but it certainly is a gene that tends to speak LOUDLY in my family  

My goal is to explore and embrace my unique individuality and eat a diet that will help to minimize my risk of heart disease.  Funny that I don't seem to fit the typical O profile, but there are exceptions to every rule.


Gotcha.  Wouldn't it be beneficial to look at grains that are already geared more for O's besides wheat.  Isn't Rice and Quinoa GTG on your swami?  Possibly Millet?  Amaranth.  There's lots of different types of rices out there to go to town with.  And yeah, oats seem to work for me real well.  Rice seems to be the best out of all of them for me.  Quinoa is an awesome grain too.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Andrea AWsec
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Quoted from Patty H
I just received my IgG Food Antibody results and I am amazed.  The ONLY food I have a moderate intolerance to are kidney beans.  I have a low intolerance to string beans, oysters, sardines & herring (both of which I never ate before the GTD), corn and pinto beans.  I have very low intolereance to Lactalbumin, alfalfa, asparagus, cod, crab, lobster, salmon, shrimp, sole, tuna, egg yolk, buckwheat, corn gluten, oats, peanuts, rice, sesame and wheat.

I have no intolerance whatsoever to dairy, cane sugar, coffee.

However, in reading the results, the foods considered very low are still allowed to be eaten, as ther response was barely measurable, which means the foods on my allowed list are, wheat, goats milk, yogurt, cheddar cheese, cottage cheese, gluten (no response detected!!!), cow's milk, soy, apples . . .  I had no high reactions to any foods.

This makes sense to me.  I have long wondered why so many people on this forum complain of the issues they have with avoids, yet I don't have nor have I ever had, ANY of those types of reactions.  I have often wondered if my rare blood antigen is more protective when it comes to food intolerances.  Maybe it is something else, but I do not seem to be a typical O in any way, given my genetic inability to break down dietary fiber and my lack of food intolerance to commonly accepted BTD/GTD avoids.

I have been advised to avoid kidney beans, corn, string beans, oysters, pinto beans, sardines and herring for six months.  All other foods are safe to consume.

Certainly, I am experiencing some confusion here  



Your IGg indicates  that you have intolerances to some things you mention this in the post above. Someone can look for the old thread by Dr. D if they care to-- I think it was over the summer, but it may have been in little fishes. But it is really not important. He had none at all.  My point is that the genotype/BTD are the best thing you will find to keep your body healthy.

If you want to focus on the IGg food list to create a diet for you then do that. It is certainly up to you.





MIFHI

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"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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PCUK-Positive
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 1:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Perhaps you just want to cheat patty, lol if so do..  

I think the general consensus on her is to avoid wheat regardless of any slight difference in a sub groups of your blood type. perhaps if you had less tests you could see Dr Nash sooner.

In conclusion - I assume that perhaps you could get away with eating more wheat for arguments sake, or more of some avoids but eventually they will create a negative response, so why bother darling oxo



Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

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Lola
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Quoted Text
my plan is to send Dr. Nash all my testing and set up a phone conference.


have your mercury numbers changed by now?

focus on beneficials to help you heal favorably

moving forward is your goal, right?


Quoted Text
"What do you expect the doctor to do? He can only prescribe something that will mask the symptoms until you heal yourself. He can not heal you."~ Gitti


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Lola  -  Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 2:58am
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Lola
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Quoted Text
IMMUNITY AND RESISTANCE

Evidence suggests that non-secretors have lower levels of the antibodies IgG and IgA. The lower levels of IgA are especially significant and may help explain why non-secretors tend to have more frequent problems with heart valve disturbance though to be the result of infection of the bloodstream due to dental work. One of the innate defenses against superficial infections by Candida species appears to be the ability of an individual to secrete the water-soluble form of his ABO blood group antigens into body fluids. Since they cannot do this, it is not surprising to find that non-secretors also carry more Candida organisms in their mouth and digestive tract than secretors. Non-secretors appear to have an increase in the prevalence of a variety of autoimmune diseases including ankylosing spondylitis, reactive arthritis, psoriatic arthropathy, Sjogren�s syndrome, multiple sclerosis, and Grave�s disease. Non-secretors appear to be at extra risk for recurrent urinary tract infections.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Kumar
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It looks as if IgG test is everything! Food tolerance-intolerance is one issue among so many innumerable issues!



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Dr. D
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The great majority of lectins are ABO specific; not specific for the minor blood groups.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Patty H
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Quoted from Dr. D
The great majority of lectins are ABO specific; not specific for the minor blood groups.


Dr. D, what I don't understand is the difference between IgG, IgE and IgA reactions versus lectin reactions.

If the IgG and IgE panels say I can tolerate wheat and dairy (among other things) and my IgA Celiac panel says I don't have Celiac and I can tolerate gluten, how would the lectin reaction be different?  I am hoping someone can explain this to me  


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Patty H
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Quoted from Andrea AWsec



Your IGg indicates  that you have intolerances to some things you mention this in the post above. Someone can look for the old thread by Dr. D if they care to-- I think it was over the summer, but it may have been in little fishes. But it is really not important. He had none at all.  My point is that the genotype/BTD are the best thing you will find to keep your body healthy.

If you want to focus on the IGg food list to create a diet for you then do that. It is certainly up to you.





Yes, this is true.  I have moderate intolerance to kidney beans  and low intolerance to string beans, sardines (herring), oysters, corn, pinto beans.  The only high reaction I had was to the spice curry powder.  My doctor said food intolerance issues are not my issue, in general.  I have other things on which I need to focus.


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Andrea AWsec
Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 11:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I do not chose to follow my docs advice, I prefer Dr. D'Adamo's perspective on healthy living.  Your doc quite possibly does not have a full understanding of lectins and disease.

So from his knowledge base he tells you that you can eat what ever you want... again this is up to you.




MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo

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Andrea AWsec  -  Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 11:51am
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PCUK-Positive
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I'm dizzy too lol


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

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Patty H
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Quoted from Andrea AWsec

I do not chose to follow my docs advice, I prefer Dr. D'Adamo's perspective on healthy living.  Your doc quite possibly does not have a full understanding of lectins and disease.

So from his knowledge base he tells you that you can eat what ever you want... again this is up to you.




Andrea, that is not what I said.  I said my doctor told me food intolerance issues were not my issues.  I have other, more important issues to work on instead.  The other health issues I need to work on have nothing to do with food.  And yes - she is a natural healer who is quite well respected - and I choose to follow her advice.

I have not said I am going to go out and stuff myself with wheat and dairy day in and day out.  I didn't do that BEFORE the BTD/GTD so why would I start doing that now.  But I need to put the results of my testing into perspective.  What it means is if I go out to a nice restaurant and they have excellent bread, I can stop obsessing over food and have a slice of bread.  If I go to a friends' house for dinner and she serves ice cream and pie for dessert, I can join them and have a slice.

I have other, much larger health issues I need to deal with at this time.  Neither the BTD or the GTD have managed or solved those issues, so yes - I need to focus on the other things right now.  Otherwise, I may end up with some very serious health issues that have nothing to do with food.


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Patty H
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Quoted from Andrea AWsec
http://www.wellsphere.com/lupu.....nenninger-nd/1348472


Dr. Steve Nenninger wrote this book about Igg testing, you can down load it here.

He is a good friend of Dr. D'Adamo.


Andrea, I got the sense from this posting that you were validating the results of my IgG testing, as Dr. Steve Nenninger, who is a good friend of Dr. D'Adamo's, is quite convinced of its validity, so I am surprised that you are now backtracking on the validity of my testing.


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Quoted from ABJoe

I don't know how the Mg antigen would affect the Lectin information.  I presume, the lectin information would still be mostly accurate, but maybe incomplete - as the Mg antigen isn't accounted for...

Edited to add: It would probably depend largely on how the Mg antigen changed the blood type "shape"...


What does that mean, ABJoe?


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