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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  O's and Fish vs. Red Meat with SWAMI
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 I am a secretor
SWAMI gives me more fish servings than other protein servings (13 votes)
19.70%
I have a family/personal history of heart disease (10 votes)
15.15%
I have a family/personal history of hypertension (10 votes)
15.15%
I do not have a family/personal history of heart disease (8 votes)
12.12%
I am a non secretor (6 votes)
9.09%
I do not have a family/personal history of hypertension (6 votes)
9.09%
SWAMI gives me more red meat servings than other proteins (5 votes)
7.58%
Please post your GenoType and a breakdown of your protein servings. Thanks! (4 votes)
6.06%
SWAMI gives me more veggie proteins servings than other protein servings (3 votes)
4.55%
SWAMI gives me more poultry servings than other proteins (1 votes)
1.52%
66 Votes Total Last vote Thursday, February 16, 2012, 3:54pm by 17092
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O's and Fish vs. Red Meat with SWAMI  This thread currently has 3,439 views. Print Print Thread
3 Pages 1 2 3 All Recommend Thread
Patty H
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 3:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
I posted a poll last week for O nonnies and fish.  The few votes that I did get showed that more O nonnies get more fish than red meat and/or poultry on their SWAMI.  More O's have a family history of heart disease as well.  

This is intriguing to me as there seems to be such a strong association with O's and red meat.  Could the heart disease be a factor in our SWAMI's giving us more fish than meat or poultry?  It sure makes sense to me.

The other thing that was interesting is that Explorers seem to get a more balanced diet between the four protein groups while Hunters in particular seemed to get almost double the amount of fish than red meat or poultry.  I'm not sure about Gatherers.

Several recent threads have piqued my interest in this.  I thought my SWAMI was different from that of other Hunters because of the very severe heart disease in my family, but I am finding that many Hunters in particular, are given more fish servings than any other protein source.  That doesn't mean people FOLLOW the recommendations of eating more fish than red meat, and in fact, I would bet that most people have not really looked at that, as O's have such a strong association with red meat.  I would love to hear if people actually follow the serving recommendations for protein.

This is particularly important as related to new members of the forum who have just started the BTD.  It seems like most of the advice is to eat red meat.  I am trying to chime in with fish, fish, fish, as that is what my SWAMI recommends.  

Thank you very much for participating.  I am really itnerested in this and hope to get a strong response!


























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Patty H
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 3:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
GRRRR!  I see there is an error in my poll regarding secretor status.  Sorry about that.   Please post if you are a secretor in your post with your servings.


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Wholefoodie
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 3:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter, SWAMI
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,113
Gender: Female
Location: Jersey girl in PA
Age: 54
I have SWAMI set to increase portions as I am 115 pounds at 5 feet 7 inches. Without that setting, take away one serving in each category:

SWAMI says:

7 servings fish
5 servings red meat
4 servings poultry

In reality, I eat fish 6 times per week, red meat about 4-5, and poultry about 4.

I am a secretor without heart disease in the family.

Lisa


FIfHI
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marjorie
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 4:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter/Aquarious/Counselor
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,628
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado
Age: 39
Quoted from Wholefoodie
I have SWAMI set to increase portions as I am 115 pounds at 5 feet 7 inches. Without that setting, take away one serving in each category:

SWAMI says:

7 servings fish
5 servings red meat
4 servings poultry

In reality, I eat fish 6 times per week, red meat about 4-5, and poultry about 4.

I am a secretor without heart disease in the family.

Lisa


Hi
So, I am 115 and I am only 5'3.. this makes me wonder if I need to work on losing some weight.

swami says only 3 servings of red meat
6 fish
4 poultry

I just started swami, hwoever, I find it hard right now to limit my chick portions and last night I had both beef and chick in my salad. I was hungry!
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Patty H
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 4:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from marjorie


Hi
So, I am 115 and I am only 5'3.. this makes me wonder if I need to work on losing some weight.

swami says only 3 servings of red meat
6 fish
4 poultry

I just started swami, hwoever, I find it hard right now to limit my chick portions and last night I had both beef and chick in my salad. I was hungry!


Linda and Marjorie, I am 5'2" and weigh 110.  My doctor says my weight is perfect.  I might be able to lose a pound or two, but that is it.  Also, it won't happen in the summer, as I do cheat in summer with ice cream and beer, not together mind you.    I am at my thinnest in the winter time!

I am a non-secretor Hunter with a severe family history of heart disease and a personal history of hypertension, even at my weight.  

My SWAMI gives me:
3 servings of red meat
3 servings of poultry
7 servings of fish
4 servings of veg protein, although I don't eat them.


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marjorie
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter/Aquarious/Counselor
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,628
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado
Age: 39
Quoted from Patty H


Linda and Marjorie, I am 5'2" and weigh 110.  My doctor says my weight is perfect.  I might be able to lose a pound or two, but that is it.  Also, it won't happen in the summer, as I do cheat in summer with ice cream and beer, not together mind you.    I am at my thinnest in the winter time!

I am a non-secretor Hunter with a severe family history of heart disease and a personal history of hypertension, even at my weight.  

My SWAMI gives me:
3 servings of red meat
3 servings of poultry
7 servings of fish
4 servings of veg protein, although I don't eat them.


Patty-- I used to be 5'2 and about that weight, seriously, this sounds weird but in the last year I have grown or lengthened and my weight increased. I do feel better when I am around 110, though.

yes, you are perfect

My swami is very similar to yours.. do you eat that much fish?
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 12,302
Gender: Female
Location: New York
Age: 42
I still don't know my secretor status, but I will in a couple of weeks.

I get even numbers of fish and red meat- 5 each. Then I get 2 poultry.

I try to stick to the reccomended portions, but poultry is very inexpensive compared to red meat, so I often end up eating more poultry and less red meat than reccomended.

I'm pretty good at getting the right amount of fish, usually 3-4 cans of sardines and then tuna salad once a week.

Oh, and I'm a Gatherer with heart disease in my family.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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O in Virginia
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 5:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,642
Gender: Female
Location: Virginia
Age: 56
I do not have a personal/family history of hypertension or heart disease.  I am an O non-secretor.

Swami gives me 4x servings fish per week, 3x red meat, 3x poultry.
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Patty H
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 6:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from marjorie


Patty-- I used to be 5'2 and about that weight, seriously, this sounds weird but in the last year I have grown or lengthened and my weight increased. I do feel better when I am around 110, though.

yes, you are perfect

My swami is very similar to yours.. do you eat that much fish?


Marjorie, I eat much more fish than red meat or poultry.  I love my fish, fish, fish!  I think it is also appropriate for me given the heart disease in my family.  I probably eat red meat two or three times a week, eggs three times a week, poultry once a week and fish the rest of the time.  I only eat 2 meals a day so when you add it up, I probably do eat fish at least seven times a week.  One of my favorite breakfasts is salmon sashimi.  YUMMY!!!   

It is weird that you are growing!  I seem to be shrinking . . . the incredible shrinking woman  


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Easy E
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ Explorer, non-secretor
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,257
Gender: Male
Location: Lafayette, LA
Age: 33
I am an A speaking, but i don't think too much heavy red meats are good for anyone, even if you are the top hunter!  I like a little red meat, but fish and poultry are also fabulous protein sources.  It's good to mix it up.
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jayneeo
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 6,355
Gender: Female
Location: San Jose, CA
Age: 67
Again, Patty (repeating what I just posted in another thread)....pleeeeze help me love fish. anybody?
How can I learn to appreciate fish? Is there a special way to cook it? Special sides to serve with it? Sauces? Help me......!!!!
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marjorie
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 8:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter/Aquarious/Counselor
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,628
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado
Age: 39
Quoted from Patty H


Marjorie, I eat much more fish than red meat or poultry.  I love my fish, fish, fish!  I think it is also appropriate for me given the heart disease in my family.  I probably eat red meat two or three times a week, eggs three times a week, poultry once a week and fish the rest of the time.  I only eat 2 meals a day so when you add it up, I probably do eat fish at least seven times a week.  One of my favorite breakfasts is salmon sashimi.  YUMMY!!!   

It is weird that you are growing!  I seem to be shrinking . . . the incredible shrinking woman  


only two meals a day? I feel like I need 3 or I am miserable, but then again, I have not tried 2 in a while.. maybe I will try this. might help my digestive track a little more.
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geminisue
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 9:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMIED Rh+ G2-Gatherer
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,763
Gender: Female
Location: GOTL, Ohio, U.S.A.
Age: 69
I don't know my secretor status, but feel I may be a non-secretor.

I am an O+ Gatherer G2 and Swamied

I get

red meat 5X a week
poultry  2X a week
fish     4X a week
Eggs     7-9 X a week
Vegetable Protein 5 X a week
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Patty H
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 10:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Thanks for adding in the eggs, geminisue!  I didn't think of that!  


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Mother
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 10:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,016
Gender: Female
Location: wisconsin
Age: 50
O+ secretor Hunter
6 fish
4 red meat
3 poultry
8 eggs
5 veg protein
I used to eat alot more red meat than I do now. My cholesterol went up to 305 so I cut out alot of red meat and started eating alot more fish. Miraculously, ALL my digestive troubles vanished, my energy doubled and I lost a pound a week for the last 10 weeks. I am 5'8" 123 now. My constant hunger has vanished and the bogged down lazy feeling is gone. Hmmm..... I LOVE FISH FISH FISH!
I don't understand why in the books. Dr D says fish is a secondary source of protein and everyone on the forums is chanting red meat when the great majority of us are supposed to eat more fish. I love my poulrty as well. Had a small grass fed burger the other night and all the old ill feelings were back., Fish it is for me!


56% hunter secretor
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O in Virginia
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 11:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,642
Gender: Female
Location: Virginia
Age: 56
Quoted from jayneeo
Again, Patty (repeating what I just posted in another thread)....pleeeeze help me love fish. anybody?
How can I learn to appreciate fish? Is there a special way to cook it? Special sides to serve with it? Sauces? Help me......!!!!


Try to eat the freshest fish possible, and one with a sweet mild flavor.  I don't use a lot of sauces.  I usually grill/broil fish with a little seasoning on it and a squeeze of lime or lemon when done.  I really love fish, though.  One thing I've done that makes a nice sauce is to bake the fish (cod, for example) in a dish with a little white wine, minced shallots, some fresh herbs like anise or fennel or tarragon.  Cover it and bake for around 20 minutes until fish is done.  After removing the fish, put it on a plate to keep warm, then pour the pan juices into a pan on top of the stove to reduce a little, swirl in a littel butter (avoid for me now  ).  When that sauce has reduced and thickened a little you can strain it (or not) and pour it over the fish.  I hope you find some fish that you can enjoy.  

Also...try some sushi!  It is wonderful, and sushi grade fish is the freshest.
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Mark
Thursday, August 4, 2011, 3:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

53% Hunter (SWAMI X)
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 328
Gender: Male
Age: 36
The challenge with fish is keeping those polyamines in check. Freshness is key. Get your albumin levels checked.

I don't know whether frozen is better than canned. You do sometimes get the bones when you get canned. Great for the bones, nails etc.
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Patty H
Thursday, August 4, 2011, 3:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from jayneeo
Again, Patty (repeating what I just posted in another thread)....pleeeeze help me love fish. anybody?
How can I learn to appreciate fish? Is there a special way to cook it? Special sides to serve with it? Sauces? Help me......!!!!


Jayneeo, I posted some tips for you in the other post.  


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marjorie
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter/Aquarious/Counselor
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,628
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado
Age: 39
Fish is awesome. It takes a little discipline, but you can do it. Just focus on all the POSITIVE things fish can do for you..
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BCgal
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swamied GATHERER
Ee Dan
Posts: 561
Gender: Female
Location: BC, Canada
Age: 61
O-  Gatherer non-secretor with heart disease and high blood pressure in the family.  My SWAMI gives me:

red meat      5x per week                               eggs       7 per week
poultry         2x per week                               vegetable proteins        5x per week
fish              4x per week

I made myself a weekly chart that I tick off as I go to make sure I'm getting everything in the amounts I'm supposed to.



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Dianne
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer : 45%
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,030
Gender: Female
Hi Patty,
Hear disease & hypertension in the family. I had some problems with hypertension. It was from extreme stress, thyroid problems and adrenal burn out. This is all resolved now without drugs.

I am an Explorer - believe I am non-secretor, will know sometime in October.

red meat 3 x weekly - poultry 3 x weekly  
fish 4 x weekly -veggie carbs 6x week,1/2 cup portions
carbs 3 x 1/2 cup daily

I prefer lamb to beef so that is usually my choice at home, have it 2 - 3 x weekly. Turkey or ostrich 3x
weekly. Fish - trying for 3 times but sometimes only 1X weekly.

I am trying to up it by wrapping my head around eating escargot once a week. Had some Saturday which I ground up in a mini-food processor to which I added one celery stalk, olive & garlic and ghee. Broiled it and told myself it looked like ground mushrooms!!! This is a diamond for me. Other times I have salmon 1 x weekly. Tonight I had wild caught cod loins, yep that's what the label said.
Not having a gallbladder, I find sardines repeat on me. I wish I could eat them, because this and the escargot are not as expensive. Fish is the price of steak now!

I can only manage two meals a day myself with the fruit allowance as snacks and some gluten-free treat. I am also making kombucha which may facilitate digesting the sardines. A future experiment!

I'll post my husband's details tomorrow. He is a Hunter.
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David
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 4:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter - INFp-INFj-eNFJ
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 119
Gender: Male
Location: Texas
Age: 62
Have not been SWAMI'd

I have a personal history of heart disease (bundle branch block)and family history of hypertension (Mom A-).

I think part of the O's excitement about "I get to eat Beef-Beef-Beef" and I feel great.... is "Reactionary". For many reasons, Beef has had a bad rap for decades.

One good reason to emphasis fish, especially sea fish & seaweed & kelp is a major source of Iodine. Another good reason is the Omega Oils.

I'm cautious of Tuna and Deep-Sea fish, though I love them best. The movie "The Cove" was filmed by the man who trained Flipper. He was disgusted about the mass capture and slaughter of Bottle Nosed Dolphin/Porpoise in Japan. The movie demonstrates researchers discussing their testing on the Dolphin and Tuna. The researchers monitored their Mercury while they ate Tuna for lunch and watched their levels climb exceedingly fast to levels far above maximum safe levels. They stopped eating Tuna.
Here is a link to that movie: http://www.thecovemovie.com/


Thoughts Are Things... Think The Good Ones... and remember... Moderate exercise is the best mood elevator!
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Susana
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 1:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter 51%
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 1,445
Gender: Female
Location: Tenerife, Spain
Age: 51
I do not have a family or persanal history of heart decease.

If I tick normal frequency/amounts I get the following servings per week:

Meat = 5 (5-7oz)
Poultry = 4 (5-7oz)
Fish = 7 (5-7oz)
Eggs = 10
Veg. protein = 6 (1/2 cup)

If i tick (out of curiosity) smaller portion/less frequent I get:

Meat = 3 (3-5oz)
Poultry = 4 (3-5oz)
Fish = 5 (3-5oz)
Eggs = 6
Veg. Protein = 4 (1/4 cup)

It seems that if my desire were to lose weight I get a lower number of servings of meat than poultry, but I always get more servings of fish.

In a period, on the basic O diet, when I has having 7 servings of meat and 4-5 of fish per week my HDL was in the nineties and LDL around 100 and trigs of 39. So all the meat consumption was not damaging my blood results  .

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PCUK-Positive
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,940
Gender: Male
Location: UK
Age: 53
Non Secretor O+ Explorer

My SWAMI gives me:
3 servings of red meat
4 servings of poultry
4 servings of fish
6 servings of veg protein

History of Heart problems in Family, Parents and Grand parents.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Patty H
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from Dianne
Hi Patty,
Hear disease & hypertension in the family. I had some problems with hypertension. It was from extreme stress, thyroid problems and adrenal burn out. This is all resolved now without drugs.

I am an Explorer - believe I am non-secretor, will know sometime in October.

red meat 3 x weekly - poultry 3 x weekly  
fish 4 x weekly -veggie carbs 6x week,1/2 cup portions
carbs 3 x 1/2 cup daily

I prefer lamb to beef so that is usually my choice at home, have it 2 - 3 x weekly. Turkey or ostrich 3x
weekly. Fish - trying for 3 times but sometimes only 1X weekly.

I am trying to up it by wrapping my head around eating escargot once a week. Had some Saturday which I ground up in a mini-food processor to which I added one celery stalk, olive & garlic and ghee. Broiled it and told myself it looked like ground mushrooms!!! This is a diamond for me. Other times I have salmon 1 x weekly. Tonight I had wild caught cod loins, yep that's what the label said.
Not having a gallbladder, I find sardines repeat on me. I wish I could eat them, because this and the escargot are not as expensive. Fish is the price of steak now!

I can only manage two meals a day myself with the fruit allowance as snacks and some gluten-free treat. I am also making kombucha which may facilitate digesting the sardines. A future experiment!

I'll post my husband's details tomorrow. He is a Hunter.


Dianne, you did not say where you live on your avatar.  Is fish difficult for you to get?  Can you buy it fresh or do you need to buy it canned or frozen?

If you can buy it fresh, I recommend starting with the white fish on your SWAMI.  They have a less pungent flavor.  Buy some herbs, spices or a mango salsa or something to put on the fish.  Some people, myself included, also use canned salmon on a salad for a lunch to get in a fish serving.  

Have you considered digestive enzymes with the sardines as well?  Probably the kombucha would do the trick, but if you needed and extra digestive boost, maybe you could look at enzymes.  They are great to have around for stomach upset as well.


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from Susana
I do not have a family or persanal history of heart decease.

If I tick normal frequency/amounts I get the following servings per week:

Meat = 5 (5-7oz)
Poultry = 4 (5-7oz)
Fish = 7 (5-7oz)
Eggs = 10
Veg. protein = 6 (1/2 cup)

If i tick (out of curiosity) smaller portion/less frequent I get:

Meat = 3 (3-5oz)
Poultry = 4 (3-5oz)
Fish = 5 (3-5oz)
Eggs = 6
Veg. Protein = 4 (1/4 cup)

It seems that if my desire were to lose weight I get a lower number of servings of meat than poultry, but I always get more servings of fish.

In a period, on the basic O diet, when I has having 7 servings of meat and 4-5 of fish per week my HDL was in the nineties and LDL around 100 and trigs of 39. So all the meat consumption was not damaging my blood results  .


That is great to know!  Good for you!


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from marjorie
Fish is awesome. It takes a little discipline, but you can do it. Just focus on all the POSITIVE things fish can do for you..


Exactly - and start with the less pungent white fish.  I like to cook my white fish with mango salsa.  Even if you don't like the fish, the mango salsa gives it a nice, sweet but spicy flavor.  I am also really getting into Thai spices and cooking.  Thai flavors go amazingly well with all fish.


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from BCgal
O-  Gatherer non-secretor with heart disease and high blood pressure in the family.  My SWAMI gives me:

red meat      5x per week                               eggs       7 per week
poultry         2x per week                               vegetable proteins        5x per week
fish              4x per week

I made myself a weekly chart that I tick off as I go to make sure I'm getting everything in the amounts I'm supposed to.


I am a little surprised that you get more red meat than fish, as you seem to be more of the exception rather than the rule, although your servings seem fairly balanced.  Explorers seem to get more of a balanced number of servings.  I will go back and look to see what some of the other Gatherers get for comparison.  Glad you shared your info with us!


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from David
Have not been SWAMI'd

I have a personal history of heart disease (bundle branch block)and family history of hypertension (Mom A-).

I think part of the O's excitement about "I get to eat Beef-Beef-Beef" and I feel great.... is "Reactionary". For many reasons, Beef has had a bad rap for decades.

One good reason to emphasis fish, especially sea fish & seaweed & kelp is a major source of Iodine. Another good reason is the Omega Oils.

I'm cautious of Tuna and Deep-Sea fish, though I love them best. The movie "The Cove" was filmed by the man who trained Flipper. He was disgusted about the mass capture and slaughter of Bottle Nosed Dolphin/Porpoise in Japan. The movie demonstrates researchers discussing their testing on the Dolphin and Tuna. The researchers monitored their Mercury while they ate Tuna for lunch and watched their levels climb exceedingly fast to levels far above maximum safe levels. They stopped eating Tuna.
Here is a link to that movie: http://www.thecovemovie.com/


Do you eat more fish than red meat and poultry, David?


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
Non Secretor O+ Explorer

My SWAMI gives me:
3 servings of red meat
4 servings of poultry
4 servings of fish
6 servings of veg protein

History of Heart problems in Family, Parents and Grand parents.


WOW!  You get double the amount of veg protein than red meat!  Do you follow these serving recommendations, policychecker?  I would have a difficult time eating all those beans  


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Peppermint Twist
Friday, September 16, 2011, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,075
Gender: Female
Location: Florida
Age: 53
Quoted from David
I have a personal history of..bundle branch block

Left or right?  I have left.  Two years ago, during my first ever routine EKG at a physical, my primary care doc scared me to death because my EKG was so crazy that she--well, first of all, the person who took it seemed all frazzled and decided that she needed to do it again, which I assumed at the time was my fault because I must have inadvertantly had the audacity to breathe during it (it turns out that you can breathe normally during an EKG, despite the wackadoo instructions this chick had given me to hold my breath).  So the nurse or whatever she was (if she was a nurse, she was a very spazzy-n-easily-frazzled one, if anyone wants my opinion) takes the EKG again, then seemed all flipped out about the results and fled the room.  A few minutes later, the doctor came in, looking very serious, and proceeded to SCARE THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME, throwing all these things at me that, THANK GOD, in the end, turned out NOT to be the case with me.  She was using words like "enlarged heart" and "hypertrophic heart" and my eyes just got wider and wider and I was like, no, there's been a mistake here.  I may be the queen of neurotic worry but one thing I never worried about was any kind of heart problem.  I don't get heart problems, doctor.  Other people get heart problems, and my bad for not informing you of that at the git-go, because you are clearly terribly confused.  I don't have ANY of the stuff you are rattling off right now.  Yet she just kept rattling and then she said something about, you could go here or there or do this or that, but I was still back on thinking, there's a mistake, none of this is true, I DON'T GET HEART PROBLEMS.  Clearly, you need to do the EKG again because your nurse is a SPAZ CASE!  Yet, just in case the doctor was right, I burst into tears.  I was thinking, here I've lost all this weight and I'm feeling so GOOD, and you're telling me, if I'm understanding correctly, that I'M DYING?  She then said "I'm so sorry.", to which I replied through my tears, "No, I appreciate you doing the EKG, I appreciate your thoroughness, thank you", yet I was thinking, I'm just SHOCKED BECAUSE THIS IS ALL A HUGE MISTAKE OF THE THERE'S-NO-WAY-THIS-IS-HAPPENING-RIGHT-NOW VARIETY!

Anyway, so she said:  which option of a, b, c, or d that I just gave you do you want to do?  And, having not absorbed a, b, c or d, I said "What do YOU think I should do?"  I think you should go to Dr. so-and-so, a cardiologist right here in this building.  And go NOW.  So go I did and set up an appointment.  He was comforting and said, okay, we do NOT know that you have any of that stuff and we won't know until we do an echocardiogram and a nuclear stress test.  "All we do know is that you have left bundle branch block."  I have what whatle what what?  That was the one phrase the primary care doctor had NOT said to me.  So he said again "left bundle branch block", "it's a conduction problem", and he went on to explain that it is a problem with the electrical system in your heart, and the signal for the left side to beat, for some reason that we don't know yet because we haven't done the tests, can't make it from the atrium (the top part of your heart, where the signal to beat originates) to your left side of your heart at the same time as the signal makes it to your right side of your heart.  So your heartbeat is dyssynchronous."  Why?  Oh, we don't know, that's what the tests are for.

Then I had to wait, what seemed like MONTHS but I think it was only, like, two months (well, two months is technically MONTHS) while this awesome cardiologist fought with the insurance company that tried to deny the tests.  Finally, the tests were approved and they found...NOTHING.  Bupkus.  No evidence of a heart attack, no hypertrophy, heart not enlarged, NOTHING except the LBBB.  Well, WHY do I have it?  *shrug*, we don't know.  Well, the internet sites all say that I'm about to drop dead if I have it and it is never a benign condition and it is so ominous and blah blah BLAH.  "Get off the internet" said this blessed guy who I really like a LOT.  You are fine.  You may need a pacemaker "when you get old".  Well, I was 48 then, so I pointed out that I was about five seconds from "old".  He laughed and said, no you're fine.  Just come back every year for a follow-up, and you are doing everything right as you have lost so much weight and you eat right and you walk every day, blah blah.  Now, get out of my office (LOVE him--he didn't actually say "get out of my office" but he was SO COMFORTING).  Come back in a year.

Went back in a year.  He said that I'm fine (I still have the LBBB, as a new EKG he ran right then and there showed, but nevertheless, I'm fine), that he is so impressed that I lost even MORE weight, and see ya next year.  I said that my pulse was 60 once, one beat lower and I would have had to come in because you (he) told me to come in if it ever goes below 60.  He said, oh, no, you don't have to do that now, "you're an athelete now" (LOVE him).

Anyway, so one of the things I was really thankful about yesterday on my b-day, as I am whenever I think about it, is that my heart is fine, even though I had that scare two years ago.  As long as I stay off the net re LBBB, as he instructed, I am fine **.  Never read anything on the net about LBBB.  If you have RBBB, it is less scary.  Lots of people have that and it is apparently not necessarily a biggie.  It is LBBB that usually is a biggie but in my case, they can't figure out why I have it, as I don't have any of the other SERIOUS stuff usually associated with it.  I was totally freaked out at first but now I'm in a great place about it psychologically and, in fact, I just look at it as extra motivation to get out and WALK when I don't particularly feel like it, and to keep my weight off.



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist  -  Friday, September 16, 2011, 6:52pm
Peppermint Twist  -  Friday, September 16, 2011, 6:49pm
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Patty H
Friday, September 16, 2011, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
PT, that is an scary story and I am glad you are ok!  

I had a similar type situation, although mine ended up being comical and being nothing in the end.  I was having some weird chest pains - and in my family we don't mess around with chest pains.  I called to ask my doctor to refer me to a cardiologist and she was out of the country for two weeks!!!  My doctor is very familiar with my family history and in fact had done a baseline EKG about a month before at my annual physical.  I was told I either needed to go to the hospital immediately or see another doctor.  I just wanted a referral to the cardiologist, but no, I had to go in to see this doc I had never met.

I got the last appointment of the day and described what was going on and went through my whole family history again.  She decided I needed another EKG, so she sent in the nurse who administered the EKG.  The doctor came in VERY concerned and said she wasn't sure but I might be having a heart attack right now.  I thought, WHA'?  She said I have to have blood drawn to see if I was spilling enzymes and the lab was just around the corner in the same building.  I went to the lab and the lab tech said, well there is a problem.  We are just about to close and this blood has to go to the hospital down the street, but the shuttle service to take your blood there ended 30 minutes ago, so I recommend you DRIVE YOURSELF to the hospital where they can draw your blood and test it immediately.  I thought, WHA'???  I might be having a heart attack right now and you want me to DRIVE MYSELF TO THE HOSPITAL?  Yes, apparently, even the doctor thought that was a good solution and I was sent back to her office where she handed me a new order for the blood work and wished me good luck.  I couldn't believe they were asking me to get behind the WHEEL of a CAR while I might be having a heart attack.  

But drive myself to the hospital I did!  I arrived and parked my car in the garage and made my way to the lab, only to be told that the lab had JUST closed for the day and I would need to get in my car AGAIN and DRIVE MYSELF to another lab close by.  Really?  Even though I might be having a heart attack???  WHA'????  So I went to the parking garage, retrieved my car and drove myself to the lab.  I waited at the lab for a while until finally they drew my blood and I was sent home - yes drove myself home.

Finally, about three hours later, the phone rings at home and it is the doctor telling me I did not have a heart attack.  I felt like saying, "Really?  I never would have guessed that . . .  I mean you sent me in a car running all over town while I could have been having a heart attack."  Obviously, if you were really worried about me, you would have called an AMBULANCE!  I'm no brain surgeon, but even I can figure that out.

Come to find out, some women tend to get tenderness in their chest cavity or in the muscles around their chest or something.  There is a name for it, but I can't remember.  Needless to say I am fine.  I think it was probably from one of my cats who jumped up on my chest.

Moral of the story?  Doctors should not scare their patients!!!  


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Peppermint Twist
Monday, September 19, 2011, 2:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,075
Gender: Female
Location: Florida
Age: 53
Oy VEY!  Patty, that really gives one pause!

I inadvertantly left my glasses at home this morning (brought the CASE, but not the glasses--close, but no cigar), so I can barely see what I'm reading and posting, and I had a devil of a time doing "scanning" this morning, as there were some key things I flat couldn't see, so I had to do things in a very roundabout way, like going by the name instead of the blood unit number of the SDR and simply rifling through the whole stack to find the ones that the computer had red-flagged.  I could see the numbers on the computer (barely) but not on the hard copy, as you cannot make that bigger, obviously.  Anyway, excuse any typos, please.  How the mighty have fallen.  I used to have x-ray vision.  But that was then, this is now.  I really need to get out of the past.  But that's a whole other post.  What the flip are we talking about here?  Oh yeah, doctors, the health system, EKGs...good thing this thread is entitled "O's and Fish vs. Red Meat with SWAMI" *tee heeeeeeeeee*.

I have to carry a little wallet card with my baseline EKG (talk about needing glasses to read something--NO ONE could read the writing on that thing without some sort of super magnifying glass, but I digress), which I think I mentioned in my post above, just in case I end up in the hospital for some reason.  This is because, as I understand it, they could do an EKG at the hospital and THINK, based on how it looks, that I'm having a heart attack, when really that is how my EKG always looks.  Conversely, they could think I'm fine when really I'm having a heart attack.  In short, they have no way to figure out if I'm having a heart attack, so I'd better just not have one.

The other thing that happened back when all this went down in 2009 was that the cardiologist, who I really, really like, did make one mistake.  He told me and the lab that I was to get a nuclear stress test and they were to put me on the treadmill instead of giving me a chemical/drug called adenosine that stresses your heart to mimic exercise, for those who can't be put on the treadmill.  I distinctly remember asking him "Will I have to take any drugs?" because his answer was such a SHOCKER, I thought he was kidding.  He said, and I quote verbatim:  "Oh no, just a nuclear radioactive isotope."



Excuse, me, doctor, for a minute there I thought you said a "nuclear radioactive isotope".  "Oh, I did, but it's nothing."  Well, that is a whole other post but my point is, I wasn't supposed to have to get the other drug that stresses out your heart (I was merely supposed to get thallium, the aforementioned nuclear radioactive isotope), I was supposed to be put on the treadmill.  Only really that was a mistake on his part and the lab caught it and called him in the days just prior to me actually getting that test, saying no, she can't go on the treadmill, she has to have the drug.  And apparently this is very basic and he really shouldn't have made such an error, but since, to him, I was so young and healthy (his waiting room is chock full of TRULY sick, mostly very senior, people--to him I was just a healthy young sprout, kind of like when, a few months ago, I had vertigo treatment, and the doctor of audiology called me one of his "pediatric patients" **, as he is used to mainly dealing with older folk, although any age can get vertigo), he just spaced out that it was LBBB and LBBB patients can't get the treadmill version of the test.  Why?  Well, apparently, one, they worry that you could drop dead of a heart attack and they would have no way to realize that it was happening in time to save you, because again, the EKG is so wackadoo to start with that how would they know?  And, two--because I adamently protested that I was definiely NOT going to keel over and I walk all the time, I'm a walker, DON'T GIVE ME THAT DRUG--they HAVE to give you the drug because, not that I understand the following logic, but they can't get an accurate test result from an LBBB patient if they stress your heart with exercise, they can only get it via this adenosine or a similar drug.

Anyway, from the way the person in one of the many waiting rooms you have to wait in before the test was carrying on about how awful she felt on that drug, I got REALLY freaked out, plus they make you sign approximately 2,000 waivers saying, I understand this drug could kill me.*  In fact, that was the only way I realized, whooooooa, wait:  they are planning to give me this drug, there's been a mistake, the doctor said I was going on the treadmill!  So I said all that and the lab people (they were EXCELLENT, btw) said, we know he said that and wrote that but we called HIM and told him no, she has LBBB, no treadmill.  So I asked him about it days later when I went back for the results and he was apologetic like, yeah, I spaced out on that.     But I like him anyway.  He is very reassuring and comforting.  I am all about reassuring doctors.  Granted, that isn't all about him but a lot about the fact that I LUCKED OUT and got very good news, yet I will say that he was right all along to be so reassuring before we even had the tests done.  He was like, we do NOT know all those scary things the primary care said to you are true, all we DO know is you have LBBB.  Not a big, do NOT look at the internet.  Internet bad.  Tests and listening to what I tell you about the results, good.  Do the latter, not the former.

Anyway, another good thing was that the guy who did the echocardiogram, which was the first of the two follow-up tests I had (first the echo, then the nuclear stress test, all in one loooooong day once those tests FINALLY got approved by the insurance company), told me RIGHT AWAY, as he was doing the test and I was saying what the primary care doc had said about an "enlarged heart" and "hypertrophic heart", quote:  "Yeah, you don't have any of that."  COME AGAIN?  SAY THAT AGAIN?  "I don't see any of that.  I see a healthy heart, except for the LBBB."  I LOVE YOU AND WANT TO BEAR YOUR CHILDREN, I think was my approximate response.



Anyway, man that whole thing scared the living daylights out of me.  I was sure I was dying when I walked out of my check-up with the primary care doctor.  I really lucked out.  In a way, I'm glad that she did scare me and suggest I had all that other stuff, because now in light of that, "just" having LBBB doesn't seem so all-fired bad!!!!!  It does if I peek at anything on the net about it, but according to my cardiologist, I shouldn't do that, I'm fine, truly fine, just have something we need to keep an eye on and be aware of.

Plus the fact that a heart attack EKG is my baseline kind of goes a long way in explaining my personality, don't you guys think?  

* turned out that the adenosine was NOTHING.  True, you feel like you might die for a little bit afterward, quesiness-wise, but then it passes.  I've had worse days with no adenosine, trust me.  I laugh in the face of adenosine--ha ha!  Bring it!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Revision History (2 edits)
Peppermint Twist  -  Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 2:03pm
Peppermint Twist  -  Monday, September 19, 2011, 3:07pm
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David
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 5:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter - INFp-INFj-eNFJ
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Age: 62
Peppermint Twist  "I see a healthy heart, except for the LBBB"

Ya, been there done that. The Medical world can be scary! Your account is more shocking and comical. I was fortunate (?) to have insurance at the time, or the tests would not have been done. My copay was $20. The cash price they stated was $5000. The entire process took about 30 minutes of clinic time using some very dated equipment. The insurance gave them just over $700. There is something seriously diseased with the business side of the Hippocrates perversion of Medical Model. Anyway, they just diagnosed it as an idiopathic arrhythmia. Later I took part in a Large Heart Study and they diagnosed it as LBBB. I notice it goes away while I exercise. It gets worse when I am experiencing a variety of other forms of stress.


Thoughts Are Things... Think The Good Ones... and remember... Moderate exercise is the best mood elevator!
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 2:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,075
Gender: Female
Location: Florida
Age: 53
Quoted from David
Peppermint Twist  "I see a healthy heart, except for the LBBB"

Ya, been there done that. The Medical world can be scary! Your account is more shocking and comical. I was fortunate (?) to have insurance at the time, or the tests would not have been done. My copay was $20. The cash price they stated was $5000. The entire process took about 30 minutes of clinic time using some very dated equipment. The insurance gave them just over $700. There is something seriously diseased with the business side of the Hippocrates perversion of Medical Model
.
Duuuuude:  I agree with your last sentence there not 100% but 1,000%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Don't even get me started.

btw, I had insurance, too (thank God) but still had to pay $800.00 out of pocket for the nuclear stress test.  It is all in the coding.  For some reason, the echo wasn't subject to the annual deductible but the nuclear stress test was, even though they were done in the same lab on the same date.  One was considered done in the doctor's office or something and one was considered lab...or something, I gave up trying to figure it out, even after--or actually, ESPECIALLY after--I called the insurance company and tried to figure it out.  $800.00.  But I was so floaty on Cloud Nine over the whole NOT DYING thing that I was like, here, take it, and God bless us, one and all!

Quoted Text
Anyway, they just diagnosed it as an idiopathic arrhythmia. Later I took part in a Large Heart Study and they diagnosed it as LBBB. I notice it goes away while I exercise. It gets worse when I am experiencing a variety of other forms of stress.

Well, on the diagnosis sheet/fee slip thingy, the general heading was "Arrhythmias" and, under that, the specific diagnosis was LBBB, BUT the cardiologist told me that actually LBBB is NOT an arrhythmia, as my heart beats in a regular rhythm.  It is a "dyssynchrony", meaning that, while the rhythm is regular, the two sides to not beat in sync.  He was funny, when I asked him if it is an arrhythmia, he said, and I quote (and you can tell that, by that point he was getting to know me **):  "No, it is actually a dyssynchrony, and DO NOT LOOK THAT UP ON THE INTERNET, it will just scare you."  Ha ha!  So of course I then HAD TO look it up on the internet.  And, yup, scared me.  But then I honestly got over it and I think I have a fabulous 'tude now about the whole LBBB thing.  The only fly in that sailing along, singing a song thing was when my very beloved, long-time, trusted veterinarian said to me about a year ago, in wide-eyed disbelief, quote:  "You have left-bundle branch block AND YOU'RE WALKING AROUND?"  

I was like, yeeeeeah, should I lie down?

Then I showed him my little wallet card (meanwhile my cat was twisting in the wind *ha ha HAAAA, it's all about ME, baby*) and he kinda looked at me again like, hmmmmm, not sure why you're not dead, but then he said something to the tune of, well, okay then, you must be fine if they told you you're fine.  That did concern me because he is just the 100% bees' knees, far as I'm concerned, the best doctor on EARTH.  I often tell him I wish he could be my primary care doctor.

As it is, I think I'm in the market for a new one again.  I'm not sure, but I think my current one kicked me to the curb.  I kinda had a huge FIT at them re repeated land, sea and air assaults telling me to get a mammogram last year, and I think they took my STOP CALLING ME ABOUT THIS fit as meaning NEVER CONTACT ME AGAIN AND REMOVE ME FROM YOUR ACTIVE PATIENT ROSTER, as I should have received something by now, friendly-reminder-wise, re it is time for my annual check-up.  *shrug*


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

my Facebook page
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 2:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,075
Gender: Female
Location: Florida
Age: 53
P.S.  The entire process took 30 minutes?  Duuude, mine was like half a day, between getting injected with this and that and then waiting around for it all to kick in, etc.  I remember how scared I was.  I remember sitting in this one waiting area of the hospital and looking out the window, and thinking how much I just wanted to be outside in the fresh air, and not in a hospital.  And I thought:  this could be my new normal, I could be in for a lot of hospital rooms from here on out.  God, I was SO scared.  Thank God that it turns out I'm fine.  It really feels like a miracle.

I was feeling sorry for myself in the weeks immediately leading up to turning 50 last week, when it occurred to me:  think about what was going on two years ago, and be GRATEFUL.  You're ALIVE!  Enough said.  


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 6:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
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Location: New York
Age: 42
PT- I think you need to keep an extra set of glasses in your desk at work.

My doctor tried to send me for that radioactive test a couple of years ago. Maybe it was the first checkup after age 35? Or the first checkup after the office got an EKG machine? Anyway, I'd never had one before, but she ordered it as part of my routine physical, not because I was having any kind of symptoms. She gets the result and orders a "stress test." That test I need to call a special place and make an appointment, it's not part of the usual HIP center scheduling stuff.

So I leave a message for this special test, and when the woman calls me back to set up my appointment, she tells me "oh, by the way, you can't be within 6 feet of children for 24 hours after having this test." WHAT????? I'm a single mom in a 2 bedroom apartment. My bed is less than 6 feet from the bunkbed where my then 6yo and 12yo slept. My CAR isn't big enough to have the kids 6 feet away from me while I'm driving, and my son's booster seat couldn't even go in the "back back" of the minivan without obstructing my view- so the little one has to be within about 3 feet of me while driving.

My doctor had said nothing about radioactivity when she scheduled me for this test. So, I called her back, and basically said "how about you refer me to a cardiologist, and let somebody who knows how to read an EKG decide whether or not I need this test?" She did so, the cardiologist did another EKG on me and basically said "your EKG isn't normal, but it's explained by your high blood pressure and you don't need this radioactive test. Get your blood pressure re-checked in 2 months."

Of course, life got in the way and it was more like 6 months before my blood pressure got re-checked, but it was fine by then. I strongly suspect that the initial high reading was a combination of "white coat hypertension" (as the cardiologist was in a HOSPITAL!!! not a normal office) and a stressful situation when I'd gone for the test (my Dad had been in the hospital 3 out of the last 4 weeks, and my aunt had been in the hospital for a mastectomy the 4th.) That was a very, very stressful summer.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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O in Virginia
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 6:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 56
These stories are scary.  
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Sahara
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 6:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I go day by day and eat whatever I'm stocked up on at the moment.  If I'm out of meat I eat fish.  I don't count servings and never will.  
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Green Root
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 8:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI / Hunter 50 %-nonGath / Taster / Receptor wv
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 390
Gender: Male
Location: Finland
Age: 31
My normal SWAMI recommendations for protein sources:

5 red meat
4 poultry
4 fish
9 eggs/roes
6 veggie proteins

So I checked "SWAMI gives me more veggie proteins servings than other protein servings". But how so few people have checked that? I was the second to check that although at least two people have told about their similar kind of amounts as I

Well, normally I eat approximately followings:

3-5 red meat, mainly lamb

0 poultry (that's a pity but I don't want to eat cheap and bad quality)

2-3 fish, mainly fresh perch, whitefish, vendace, zander and canned yellowfin tuna and sardines

6-11 chicken eggs

8-16 veggie proteins, mainly almonds; pumpkin, sesame (also black), hemp, chia and flaxseeds, pecans, hazel- and walnuts - beans/legumes not so often, 1-2 portions per week

I know, I eat too much oily veggie proteins and too few portions of fish and poultry... and the biggest problem may be that 6 portions of live foods per day is yet hard to achieve.

But could my a little bigger amount of veggie proteins be a result of RECEPTOR worldview (or does it affect food recommendations at all)?


He [Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2:2)
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David
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 1:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter - INFp-INFj-eNFJ
Autumn: Harvest, success.
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Location: Texas
Age: 62
SW#AMI has not spoken to me yet. I have been eating more protein than in many years... It has been an improvement and the protein listings I see mentioned above are still about twice what I've been getting.

O in Virginia.. you are right.... Scary!

Ruthygirl.. I vaguely remember the "stay away from kids" order after they pumped me full or radioactivity. It must be that the medical model values tests and results as the ultimate proofs of their religious ritual so absolutely, that they discount logical or obvious complications and future possibilities to their techniques. It's as if the group mind resonates a kind of casual Oh this is what we do, and It's normal; and the casual caring rubs off on the unsuspecting human being who is struggling with some unknown condition that scares the bejesus out of them.. So they walk the unsuspecting compliant patient through the valley of dreadful technological uncertainty holding the hand of the experienced/expert guide. I can't believe I let that happen. I could have found a Holistic practitioner and avoided radiation diagnostic testing.

Peppermint Twist.. My day did go a bit different. The stress test lasted about 5 minutes while they dosed me with radiation. It was not stressful. I hadn't even started breathing hard. Then they told me to go to a restaurant and eat a fatty meal and return in 2 hours. They laid me out on a slab and their antiquated looking equipment clunked, clanked and gyrated around my chest for 15-20 minutes. It reminded me of sci-fi alien equipment made from sheet aluminum like stuff I'd seen in a matinee movie in the 50's n 60's.
Oh; You are quite a story teller and your funny sense of humor seems to bubble forth effortlessly. You could be a fun author to read; I'd say.


Thoughts Are Things... Think The Good Ones... and remember... Moderate exercise is the best mood elevator!
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md
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 1:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 460
Gender: Female
Location: Cajun Country
O+ secretor Gatherer with a family history of heart disease

My SWAMI gives me:
4 Red Meat
3 Poultry
5 Fish and Seafood
8 Eggs
5 Vegetable Proteins


Sirach 37:27
For not every food is good for everyone, nor is everything suited to every taste.



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Patty H
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 1:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from David
SW#AMI has not spoken to me yet. I have been eating more protein than in many years... It has been an improvement and the protein listings I see mentioned above are still about twice what I've been getting.

O in Virginia.. you are right.... Scary!

Ruthygirl.. I vaguely remember the "stay away from kids" order after they pumped me full or radioactivity. It must be that the medical model values tests and results as the ultimate proofs of their religious ritual so absolutely, that they discount logical or obvious complications and future possibilities to their techniques. It's as if the group mind resonates a kind of casual Oh this is what we do, and It's normal; and the casual caring rubs off on the unsuspecting human being who is struggling with some unknown condition that scares the bejesus out of them.. So they walk the unsuspecting compliant patient through the valley of dreadful technological uncertainty holding the hand of the experienced/expert guide. I can't believe I let that happen. I could have found a Holistic practitioner and avoided radiation diagnostic testing.

Peppermint Twist.. My day did go a bit different. The stress test lasted about 5 minutes while they dosed me with radiation. It was not stressful. I hadn't even started breathing hard. Then they told me to go to a restaurant and eat a fatty meal and return in 2 hours. They laid me out on a slab and their antiquated looking equipment clunked, clanked and gyrated around my chest for 15-20 minutes. It reminded me of sci-fi alien equipment made from sheet aluminum like stuff I'd seen in a matinee movie in the 50's n 60's.
Oh; You are quite a story teller and your funny sense of humor seems to bubble forth effortlessly. You could be a fun author to read; I'd say.


Ruthie and David, I wonder if they are so used to treatly older or elderly patients that the idea of staying away from children does not register???  Just a thought . . .

David, I agree with you 100% - PT, you need to write a book and we will all read it    You STILL crack me up  

So I have this big, honking, non-cancerous growth on my left lung and have to continually have CT scans to see if it is getting bigger.  I went from about 2.5 cm in 2006 to about 4 cm as measured in June.  It is right next to my aorta, so it is not a walk in the park to remove.  Do I expose myself to the continual radiation of CT scans to track it over time or do I just get it taken out now . . . ponder that for a while and let me know what you all think.  It is surgery on my lung and it is right next to my aorta.  I feel like I have no good choices here . . .  


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 1:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from Green Root
My normal SWAMI recommendations for protein sources:

5 red meat
4 poultry
4 fish
9 eggs/roes
6 veggie proteins

So I checked "SWAMI gives me more veggie proteins servings than other protein servings". But how so few people have checked that? I was the second to check that although at least two people have told about their similar kind of amounts as I

Well, normally I eat approximately followings:

3-5 red meat, mainly lamb

0 poultry (that's a pity but I don't want to eat cheap and bad quality)

2-3 fish, mainly fresh perch, whitefish, vendace, zander and canned yellowfin tuna and sardines

6-11 chicken eggs

8-16 veggie proteins, mainly almonds; pumpkin, sesame (also black), hemp, chia and flaxseeds, pecans, hazel- and walnuts - beans/legumes not so often, 1-2 portions per week

I know, I eat too much oily veggie proteins and too few portions of fish and poultry... and the biggest problem may be that 6 portions of live foods per day is yet hard to achieve.

But could my a little bigger amount of veggie proteins be a result of RECEPTOR worldview (or does it affect food recommendations at all)?


Green Root, I am so glad you shared your protein servings, as it is so different from most of the rest of our servings.  I have no idea why you get more veggie protein than animal protein.  Maybe it has something to do with ethnicity or your particular family health history?  It's a really good question and I would love to know why, particularly since you are a Hunter like me.  


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 1:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from md
O+ secretor Gatherer with a family history of heart disease

My SWAMI gives me:
4 Red Meat
3 Poultry
5 Fish and Seafood
8 Eggs
5 Vegetable Proteins


Thanks for sharing your info, md.  Do you follow your SWAMi and eat more fish than red meat or poultry?  Just interested in how people incorporate their SWAMI's  


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md
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 2:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 460
Gender: Female
Location: Cajun Country
Quoted from Patty H


Thanks for sharing your info, md.  Do you follow your SWAMi and eat more fish than red meat or poultry?  Just interested in how people incorporate their SWAMI's  


I normally do try to follow my SWAMI; but, lately, my fish consumption has dropped, because I can't find the sardines I was buying.



Sirach 37:27
For not every food is good for everyone, nor is everything suited to every taste.



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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 8:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 12,302
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Location: New York
Age: 42
Quoted from Patty H


Ruthie and David, I wonder if they are so used to treatly older or elderly patients that the idea of staying away from children does not register???  Just a thought . . .


"Older"? I was 36 years old, with kids ranging in age from 6 to 13. I didn't have any "backup childcare" because those individuals were my aunt (in treatment for breast cancer) my dad (having serious heart problems) and my mom (taking care of her sick husband while still being backup for her sick sister's kids, the younger of whom was in 8th or 9th grade at the time.) I couldn't afford to be "radioactive for a day" and unable to care for my kids. Should I have left the 12 and 13yos in charge of the 6yo??

Not to mention the most important consideration of all: if this is so dangerous for my kids, is it even safe for me?

I'm just glad that the person scheduling the appointment informed me of this, BEFORE I was exposed to any kind of radiation.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Patty H
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from ruthiegirl


"Older"? I was 36 years old, with kids ranging in age from 6 to 13. I didn't have any "backup childcare" because those individuals were my aunt (in treatment for breast cancer) my dad (having serious heart problems) and my mom (taking care of her sick husband while still being backup for her sick sister's kids, the younger of whom was in 8th or 9th grade at the time.) I couldn't afford to be "radioactive for a day" and unable to care for my kids. Should I have left the 12 and 13yos in charge of the 6yo??

Not to mention the most important consideration of all: if this is so dangerous for my kids, is it even safe for me?

I'm just glad that the person scheduling the appointment informed me of this, BEFORE I was exposed to any kind of radiation.


Ruthie, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I probably wasn't very clear.  I was thinking that maybe they are used to treating elderly patients who don't normally have to worry about being near children or childcare.

Sorry if my post was confusing  


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Green Root
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI / Hunter 50 %-nonGath / Taster / Receptor wv
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 390
Gender: Male
Location: Finland
Age: 31
Quoted from Patty H

Green Root, I am so glad you shared your protein servings, as it is so different from most of the rest of our servings.  I have no idea why you get more veggie protein than animal protein.  Maybe it has something to do with ethnicity or your particular family health history?  It's a really good question and I would love to know why, particularly since you are a Hunter like me.  


Hi Patty, the difference shouldn't be that big only one serving more than red meat and two more than poultry and seafood.

SWAMI doesn't know that my O+ parents have been a great deal without red meat, and with very little poultry. However, my choice was (at last!) to test lamb and other organic meats and I found them good with a little amount of carbs.

I would like to eat more veggie proteins than SWAMI recommends - and so I do!


He [Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2:2)
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David
Friday, September 23, 2011, 3:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter - INFp-INFj-eNFJ
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 119
Gender: Male
Location: Texas
Age: 62
Quoted from Patty H
I probably wasn't very clear.  I was thinking that maybe they are used to treating elderly patients who don't normally have to worry about being near children or childcare.


I think it is part of the protocol for that radioisotope diagnostic test. They have to inform the patient to stay away from children. The reason is that children are maturing at a fast rate. Children have their entire reproductive life ahead of them. Their cells including their active stem cells are growing, dividing, specializing and maturing faster. The precaution is protective of children's DNA and reproductive tissues which can be more easily altered and subjected to permanent genetic mutations.... than adults. In truth, It might be prudent to consider this from the radioisotopes perspective... and that radioactivity is not prejudiced by the age of the human being that it penetrates and unwittingly alters.



Thoughts Are Things... Think The Good Ones... and remember... Moderate exercise is the best mood elevator!
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Patty H
Friday, September 23, 2011, 4:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from David


I think it is part of the protocol for that radioisotope diagnostic test. They have to inform the patient to stay away from children. The reason is that children are maturing at a fast rate. Children have their entire reproductive life ahead of them. Their cells including their active stem cells are growing, dividing, specializing and maturing faster. The precaution is protective of children's DNA and reproductive tissues which can be more easily altered and subjected to permanent genetic mutations.... than adults. In truth, It might be prudent to consider this from the radioisotopes perspective... and that radioactivity is not prejudiced by the age of the human being that it penetrates and unwittingly alters.



Ya think???


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SquarePeg
Friday, September 23, 2011, 4:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI GT4 Explorer 44%; Rh-; iNfP; nonnie?
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,453
Gender: Male
Location: Northeast, USA
My SWAMI gives me:
3 servings of red meat
4 servings of poultry
4 servings of fish
8 Eggs / Roe (I rarely eat by themselves -- sailfish roe is the only superfood for me)
6 servings of veg protein


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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zeethiss
Friday, September 23, 2011, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter 64% (Swami) / Leo / INTJ / Pitta
Early Spring: Awareness, desire.
Posts: 25
Gender: Male
Location: CT
Hi there. O Secretor with family history of heart disease.
Servings-
Red meat. 4/wk
Poultry. 4/wk
Fish. 5/wk
Eggs. 7/wk
Dairy. 1/wk
Veg proteins. 5/wk
Fats/oils. 6/wk
Carbs. 1/day
Live Foods. 7/day
Fruits. 3/day
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kipperkid
Monday, December 19, 2011, 12:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

55% Gatherer, ISTJ, Reactor worldview
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 291
Gender: Female
Location: Just north of London, England
Age: 57
SWAMI Gatherer, secretor status unknown but expect it's secretor, no personal history of heart disease or hypertension, but both parents had/have both and 2 grandparents had heart disease.

Values originally calculated were for losing weight and with white lines in fingerprints and I got same no. of red meat & veg protein with less fish and poultry......

Red Meat 3-5oz 5x week
Poultry  3-5oz 2x week
Fish & Seafood 3-5oz 4x week
Eggs  1 egg 7x week
Dairy 3x week
Veg protein 1/4 cup 5x week


  • Toyed with BTD from 2006
  • Diagnosed with IBS Jul 2011
  • SWAMI start Dec 2011
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PCUK-Positive
Monday, December 19, 2011, 12:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,940
Gender: Male
Location: UK
Age: 53
Sorry took so long to reply Patty, i was reading PT's posts

I hardy eat any vegetable protein although I'm starting to address that.

PT - Please put in a foreword or conclusion in your wordy text. I only have so much time oxo (love them  really)


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Patty H
Monday, December 19, 2011, 1:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
Sorry took so long to reply Patty, i was reading PT's posts

I hardy eat any vegetable protein although I'm starting to address that.

PT - Please put in a foreword or conclusion in your wordy text. I only have so much time oxo (love them  really)


PC, I am still amazed you get so much vegetable protein.  As I recall in either ERFYT or LRFYT, Dr. D states something to the effect that vegetable protein is not a great source of protein for O's.  Do you have any idea why you get so much?

I don't love it either.  However, I just found that the local health food store makes homemade hommus with no additives and all of the ingredients are ok for me, so I have started to add some hommus to my diet as well.


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deblynn3
Monday, December 19, 2011, 2:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT2 Gatherer rh+;Prop-Taster
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,558
Gender: Female
Location: Arkansas
Age: 57
swami gives me 5 each of veg. protein and red meat. There was not equal amount in the list. 4 fish, 2 poultry. I've given 3oz of cheese a week. I slice of my farmer cheese is 1 1/2 oz.

Swami seems to be working on detox issues. I'm going to change my white line to none soon and I've very few now. (6mo. BTD / 1year GTD)

The heart and high PB are from grandparents.  My mother's heart issues was because of being a type one diabetic.


Swami, 100% me..
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SquarePeg
Monday, December 19, 2011, 7:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI GT4 Explorer 44%; Rh-; iNfP; nonnie?
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,453
Gender: Male
Location: Northeast, USA
Regarding the higher number of veg. protein servings in PC's (and my) SWAMI, I think it's because Explorers are more sensitive to the kinds of toxins you'd find in animal fat.


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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Patty H
Monday, December 19, 2011, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from SquarePeg
Regarding the higher number of veg. protein servings in PC's (and my) SWAMI, I think it's because Explorers are more sensitive to the kinds of toxins you'd find in animal fat.


Makes sense, Square Peg.


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Green Root
Saturday, January 21, 2012, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI / Hunter 50 %-nonGath / Taster / Receptor wv
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Gender: Male
Location: Finland
Age: 31
yep - and if other protein sources are that low, why should veggie proteins be low, too?

I got also 6 veggie protein portions per week as a Hunter but 5 red meat, 4 poultry, 4 fish and 9 eggs.

And I regard 6 veggie portions low amount during a week. Maybe I have gone nuts


He [Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2:2)
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Sahara
Thursday, February 16, 2012, 7:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
I don't have SWAMI & tend to eat my animal flesh protein according to cravings.  I favor fish a little bit over beef but not much- I need several servings of both per week to feel good.  I love eggs but limit them to 6 per week in favor of meat and fish.
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angel
Thursday, February 16, 2012, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

A 'Hunter' working on a relaxing into farm life.
Ee Dan
Posts: 532
Gender: Female
Location: Green Acres Farm, Fielding, Utah
Age: 43
Swamied O+ Sec/Hunter have family history of Heart problems and High cholesterol, BUT I have no personal history in fact my doctor said my numbers were great for my age. I eat more protein than I should but it is hard because I am not allowed alot of carbs as they throw my system off.

Meat 4-5
Poultry 3-4
Fish 6-7
eggs 8-10
Veg pro 5-6
dairy 3-4

Alot of this is because of my thyroid and knowing that I do better on higher protein. I do listen to my body and some days depending do not eat any protein. IF I am sick I look for meat broths.


'And some of us would die-so other men can stand up on their feet like men. A great many are going to die for that. They have in the past. They will a hundred years from now-two hundred. God grant there will always be men good enough.(James Otis)' Johnny Tremain (Forbes)

Freedom is not free!
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ABJoe
Thursday, February 16, 2012, 10:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

35% Nomad or Teacher - health history dependent
Sun Beh Nim
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Age: 51
Quoted from Green Root
I got also 6 veggie protein portions per week ...

And I regard 6 veggie portions low amount during a week. Maybe I have gone nuts

Just making sure you aren't confused - veggie protein servings and veggie (live foods) servings aren't the same...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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