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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  Help!  Gatherer fat portions!
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Help!  Gatherer fat portions!
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EquiPro
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 12:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,354
Gender: Female
So, in SWAMI, for me as a Gatherer, it recommends on 2 T of oil + 1-1/2 t ghee (IF I eat no cheese) PER WEEK!!!!!

As a type O following the BTD, I have relied on oils and other fats to help me stay off of sugar.  I have never monitored my fat intake and use olive oil to cook everything from eggs to meats, as well as putting it on my daily salad.  I routinely use cast iron cookware which needs a good coating of oil to work properly.

I probably use that weekly recommendation DAILY, if not more.  I don't see how I'm going to comply with this portion recommendation, yet I really want to follow the guidelines as closely as possible.  Also, I have read, repeatedly, that it is best to eat veggies with some fat in order to absorb the nutrients in the veggies.  If I am taking in 5 servings of veggies per day (a challenge in and of itself) how can this tiny allotment of oil possibly be stretched to be used with my veggies?  It's the FAT put on veggies that makes them easier to eat (and me more likely to get those 5 servings in).

I could really use some help with dealing with this... am I now going to have to be as judicious with my oil use as I am with my starch intake....I mean, 2T + 1-1/2t per week is NOT very much.

Help!!! (Edna?)


FRESH START TODAY!!!

Revision History (4 edits)
Lloyd  -  Monday, August 22, 2016, 11:54am
Lola  -  Monday, August 22, 2016, 2:04am
Lola  -  Thursday, February 17, 2011, 4:33pm
Drea  -  Sunday, February 13, 2011, 7:29pm
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geminisue
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 1:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMIED Rh+ G2-Gatherer
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,764
Gender: Female
Location: GOTL, Ohio, U.S.A.
Age: 71
3 teaspoons= 1 tablespoon

use 1 teaspoon in your frying pan, you will be surprised how far it goes!

can always add a bit of bouilon or water, if needed, but usually I don't except when doing raw veggies that I have grated, I use a bit of water with herbs and spices, then when cooked, remove from pan, dry pan, put oil or ghee and brown a bit.  
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Wholefoodie
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 1:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter, SWAMI
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,131
Gender: Female
Location: Jersey girl in PA
Age: 56
This is another question that comes up often as it seems many of us have similiar restrictions. There was a very recent thread in fact!

My oils and fats are also very low and I am borderline underweight so that leads me to believe it is not a weight issue as much as how it effects the overall operation of things. Like you, I feel I need in a day what I am given in a week. There is no way this diet would work for me with the miniscule amounts of fats and oils alloted. Others have also agreed they need to go over the amount given.

The plan has to be liveable so I would suggest you be aware that you should use less and do the best you can. My goal is stay within compliant foods and be aware of portions. None of them pose much of a challenge except fats and oil. I use lots of olive oil to cook and season and enjoy ghee and the occasional cheese. I am aware I should not be pouring it on, though!


FIfHI
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 5:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,376
Gender: Female
Location: The Sunshine State
Age: 55
Quoted from EquiPro
So, in SWAMI, for me as a Gatherer, it recommends on 2 T of oil + 1-1/2 t ghee (IF I eat no cheese) PER WEEK!!!!!

As a type O following the BTD, I have relied on oils and other fats to help me stay off of sugar.  I have never monitored my fat intake and use olive oil to cook everything from eggs to meats, as well as putting it on my daily salad.  I routinely use cast iron cookware which needs a good coating of oil to work properly.

I probably use that weekly recommendation DAILY, if not more.  I don't see how I'm going to comply with this portion recommendation, yet I really want to follow the guidelines as closely as possible.  Also, I have read, repeatedly, that it is best to eat veggies with some fat in order to absorb the nutrients in the veggies.  If I am taking in 5 servings of veggies per day (a challenge in and of itself) how can this tiny allotment of oil possibly be stretched to be used with my veggies?  It's the FAT put on veggies that makes them easier to eat (and me more likely to get those 5 servings in).

I could really use some help with dealing with this... am I now going to have to be as judicious with my oil use as I am with my starch intake....I mean, 2T + 1-1/2t per week is NOT very much.

Help!!! (Edna?)

Hello, daaaahlink!

First of all, don’t fret/sweat the portion recommendations too much, they are just that:  recommendations, friendly suggestions, based on what Dr. D thinks would be ideal proportions of the various and sundry things in our diet that comprise the “whole pie”.  Each slice is suggested to be a certain amount, but it is just a suggestion, based on all Gatherers.  In a sense, in my opinion anyway, the portion recommendations within each type are the most reductionist aspect of this inherently non-reductionist diet.  In other words, they are customized to your group, your type, which is pretty dang customized, yet they are not nearly as customized, or important (in my humble opinion), as the recommendations for which specific foods are good for your Gatherer self and which are not.  That is just my opinion, but I really feel like the “which foods” is WAAAAAY more important and customized than the “how much”.

Now, this next thing is just my approach, too, so I emphasize that, but I personally eat MUCH more fat than is recommended for me on both the O non-secretor diet and on the Gatherer GenoType Diet (book or SWAMI).  Mind you:  SWAMI thinks I should have—brace yourself, unless you are a Type A reading this, in which case, you will no doubt think “And the problem would be, what exactly?”  **--1 tablespoon of superfood or neutral oil per WEEK.  My reaction, much as I trust and respect and KNOW that Dr. D is always spot on when it comes to what he tells me to do?  Yeah, my reaction to the whole one-tablespoon-of-oil-per-week recommendation is:  “Whatchu’ tawkin’ ‘bout, Willis?!!!!!!!!!!!”

I mean:  Willis!  Talk sense!

Momma GOTS ta have her OILS, baby!  Fat!  Fat is where it’s at!  And Dr. D has taught me so well, that he has taught me to trust MYSELF, ultimately, and my knowledge thereof, and therefore, again, I must say to him on this:  Willis, where’d you get that rabble-rousing recommendation?  Because this rabble is roused by it!

There is NO WAY on this or any other earth that I can limit my added fat intake to ONE tablespoon of the stuff per week.  Period and the end.  I have faith in the fact that, if I wouldn’t perish, I’d at least WANT to perish!  I mean, have I ever tested my theory by actually attempting to live on one tablespoon of added fat per week?  NO.  It’s not happening.  I spent too many years being brainwashed by the Pritikin/Big Wheat and Corn Crowd into thinking that fat was bad and wheat was king and, long story short, even now, on my healthy GTD and knowing what I know and blah blah BLAH, if I were to attempt the whole one tablespoon of oil/fat per week thing, it would feel WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much like going back to those dark days and just the psychological impact alone would be enough to send me sailing out the door in search of chips and dip, trust me!

Bottom line:  I’ve lost 81 lbs by following my GTD, BUT being basically non-compliant on the fat portion recommendations (and, while I’m being honest, even with the part that I already said I think IS important, the “which” fat:  I eat organic mayo on a regular basis, it is my ONE avoid that is a regular part of my diet...well, one of the very few, I also do eat some dairy like feta and yogurt pretty regularly).

That said, I would like to lose another 9 to 14 lbs (depending if you go by my official 81 lbs lost or where the scale keeps vacillating back and forth to...but I digress!) and, thus far (since reaching my original goal on April 13th), I CANNOT do it.  And, I mean, I’m exercising, I’m eating right, I’m even forcing myself to sleep at night (I mean, work with me, here!).  So I should, in fairness, say that, maybe if I would cut the added oils back to at least something approaching the general area that Dr. D recommends, I could lose more...and I’m toying with cutting back, but no WAY will I get to a tablespoon per WEEK.  Let’s not get crazy.

My point is, I’ve lost 81 lbs and I eat as much superfood oil (olive) and neutral oil (dark toasted sesame) as I want.  I also eat some avoid oil in the form of Spectrum Organic Mayo, and I don’t care who knows it *lol*!  Mind you, if you made your own homemade mayo, it could be not only Gatherer compliant, but Gatherer beneficial/superfood.  I’m just too lazy for that...and I don’t care who knows it *muah/tee heeEEE!*  Cue David Bowie:  Rebel, Rebel!

I’m more prone to cut back my grains proportion (basmati rice, mainly) in any given meal than I am to cut back my fats, although I do try to be mindful of both...I try, and I do pretty well with the grain, but on the fat, I often think:  hmmmmm...nope, needs a dash more olive oil!  Or sesame.  It is impossible to have too much of either, really.  So, since you asked me, I have to “go rogue” on this one issue and say that, while I avoid bad fats such as transfats and avoid fats (other than my organic mayo!), I do eat way more of the superfood (mainly) and neutral (gotta have my dark-toasted sesame oil in some things, like “Car 54’s Spread” that you loved so much, remember?) oils than recommended.  So far, so good:  81 lbs down and HDL of 91, total chol of 198.  If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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Victoria
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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One way to make the most of the fats that you eat is to add them after cooking.  Recently, we had a discussion on mixing compliant oil with liquid lecithin @ approx 3/4 C oil to 1/4 C liquid lecithin. . or even less lecithin.  A very small amount of this brushed or wiped on a skillet will make it non-stick.  Lower heat works best for this.  Then a little oil or ghee can be tossed into whatever food you want to dress up.

Especially in the beginning, I wouldn't worry too much about exact measurements, but get used to the food choices.  As your body changes, you can make some changes gradually.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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jayneeo
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 7:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 6,778
Gender: Female
Location: San Jose, CA
Age: 69
Whew!!!!!
so glad P.T., our resident real world gatherer extraordinaire, stepped in!!!!
1 T. a week. Its got to be a mistake! I just could not do it.
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EquiPro
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,354
Gender: Female
Thanks to the Universe for you Pep!  I'm JUST LIKE you...man, I don't even THINK about fat portions (and I'm talking the benny fats  -  I haven't touched the trans stuff in YEARS - think EVOO and ghee w. butter here and there), but I started to get frightened by the SWAMI!

Good....I'll just be doin' my fat thing then!

Hugggss!!!


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,376
Gender: Female
Location: The Sunshine State
Age: 55
Quoted from jayneeo
Whew!!!!!
so glad P.T., our resident real world gatherer extraordinaire, stepped in!!!!
1 T. a week. Its got to be a mistake! I just could not do it.

Well, now, mind you:  I could be a bad influence here, I mean, Dr. D does recommend far less added fat than I choose to add.  So just take my post as honestly reflecting my practice of, and experience on, the GenoType Diet.

...wish we could link to youtube from here.  I'd put Bowie's "Rebel, Rebel" right about...HERE.  


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,376
Gender: Female
Location: The Sunshine State
Age: 55
Quoted from EquiPro
Thanks to the Universe for you Pep!  I'm JUST LIKE you...man, I don't even THINK about fat portions (and I'm talking the benny fats  -  I haven't touched the trans stuff in YEARS - think EVOO and ghee w. butter here and there), but I started to get frightened by the SWAMI!

Good....I'll just be doin' my fat thing then!

Hugggss!!!

Oh, good Lord, I'm leading all my fellow G2s astray!  Sorry, Dr. D!

...Gotta love me anyway?  

Fish gotta swim
Birds gotta fly
PT gotta add FAT  ...without it, society as we know it breaks down!!!  


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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I'm (once again) trying to stick to SWAMI portion sizes and frequencies- as a Gatherer, it's my natural inclination to overeat. Overeating on the beneficial and neutral foods doesn't "hurt me" in terms of energy level, pain, ability to fall asleep, etc, but I can't lose weight when I'm consistently eating 4 or 5 square meals a day instead of 3.

I'm focusing on eating lots and lots of veggies, and limiting my grains to the recomended 1-2 per day, and to keep my animal proteins to the recomended amounts. I need to eat lots of veggies to feel satisfied with modest amounts of meats(/eggs/cheeses/fish) and starches. Sticking to about 2 servings of fruit per day (or less) has never been a challenge for me.

I'm not even attempting to follow the "fats and oils" recomendation. I need to eat fewer carbs, and less food altogether. I guess I'm aiming for about a tablespoon, maybe two,  of added fats/oils per day, NOT the 2 tablespoons per week I'm supposed to have. Less than one teaspoon a day? I don't think so!

When I first started SWAMI,  I logged my daily food intake into Fitday a few times and came up with about 1750 calories a day- and that's with eating twice the recomended eggs and more oil than recomended. I few months back, I tried to 100% follow SWAMI portions but found myself cranky, weak and irritable. I logged my food into Fitday and found that I was only eating about 1000 calories- no wonder I felt so awful! I increased my portions of protein and fat and felt much better.

I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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EquiPro
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,354
Gender: Female
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.


I actually had the same thought, Ruthie!



FRESH START TODAY!!!
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deblynn3
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT2 Gatherer rh+;Prop-Taster
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,102
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Location: Arkansas
Age: 59
Ghee is under dairy in the Geno book. could we count it that way? Ok, Ok just asking you take my fat portions down way down.  


Swami, 100% me..
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Lola
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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get a brush and a spray bottle


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ESTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Susana
Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 11:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 Hunter 51%
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 1,445
Gender: Female
Location: Tenerife, Spain
Age: 53
As a hunter I do not get very generous portions of oils on my Swami either. I also over do them.  

Ruthiegirl, have you observed that in the edit part of Swami, in the last section, you can input the portion / frequency desired. If you ask for the help tab you get the description of the objectives of each variant. Perhaps you asked it to compute for you and that's the reason you got such low calories. You may want to enter normal or higher portions or frequencies to get a more balanced swami report.

I figured that if my Swami allowed me 8 tablespoons/wk of oil on the highest portion/frequency meant that so much oil (still not enough for me) was not bad for my health and even a little bit more could pass unnoticeable health wise. The issue of calories is another ball game.

Peppermint Twist, congratulations for your weight loss. I always knew you would make it one day. Bravo! I also wanted to tell you that that noodle MD of yours was talking generalities when she so adamantly told you to lose more weight. You are far from the average. You eat very healthy and I have met many people with extra pounds who lived very healthy into very old age. So with your nutritional program you could be well in your way to celebrate your 3 digit b'day. Go ahead and reduce what you know you can/want to reduce but chances are with time even those extra 9 pounds will fly off.

PT, could you tell us the frequency and perhaps the portion of grains, beans, sweet potato, and fruit per day or week? Has the gatherer diet been able to work so well with high fat and a relatively high level of carbs? If so, you are such good proof that Dr. D's work really cleans the body for proper functioning. I am assuming your portions/frequencies of food ingestion are "average/normal."

Thanks,


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Susana  -  Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 11:48pm
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DoS
Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 12:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; C677T (T;T); Warrior
Ee Dan
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Gender: Male
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As a Type A I use way more than 2T a week. It is not possible with cast iron to use so little. Although I mostly use olive oil which I am not under the impression would be easy to over do.
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MsRubyLu
Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Gatherer - Supertaster - INTJ
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 111
Gender: Female
Location: Oregon
Age: 68
Another Gatherer here who only gets 1 T per week... I'm hoping it is a program error because I too ignore it.... I'm not loosing fast but I'm loosing so I'm happy   I'm also supposed to have 5 cups per day of vegies.  I'm still working on getting that high
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Location: New York
Age: 44
Quoted from Susana
Ruthiegirl, have you observed that in the edit part of Swami, in the last section, you can input the portion / frequency desired. If you ask for the help tab you get the description of the objectives of each variant. Perhaps you asked it to compute for you and that's the reason you got such low calories. You may want to enter normal or higher portions or frequencies to get a more balanced swami report.
I don't have the SWAMI Xpress that I can play with myself- I had the pro version done and I'm not going to ask Andrea to constantly fiddle with it. I'll ask her to re-run it when I enter peri-menopause, or I have some other significant health change, but not for little things like this.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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balletomane
Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter / Rh+ / Aquarius / INFJ
Ee Dan
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Location: Hong Kong
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I get 6 tbsp a week and I think even so, I easily go over that recommendation coz I use at least 1 tbsp for my salad (3-4c) every day, then at night I would use another tbsp for my stir fries.

Ruthiegirl, your calorie count is really low! One time I input my meals in CalorieCount.com coz a friend of mine is using it and I got curious. I put my goal to be "maintain current weight." The calories I would need to take is 2200 per day. When I input my meals, eaten according to SWAMI recommendations, it was right on (but I think I did go over the oil portion anyway).

I would look up liquid lecithin and spray bottles for olive oil. But in the meantime, I do feel that the amount of oil (plus protein, of course) I eat makes me satisfied and stay away from snacking unnecessarily.



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ruthiegirl
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SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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1700-1800 calories is probably about right for me to lose weight. That's about what I was eating when I first started following my SWAMI, and I lost 10 lbs in a month. That was a year ago, and I haven't lost any more weight, though I have gained and re-lost about 4 lbs repeatedly.

The difference is, when I was first following my SWAMI, I didn't really pay much attention to fat portions, I doubled my egg portions, and I didn't eat any cheese. I'd been dairy-free for a very long time, and I didn't quite trust that the cheeses listed were actually safe for me to eat. At the time, I figured I was eating extra eggs to compensate for the loss of calories, fat, and protein found in the cheeses I wasn't eating. Then I never cut back on eggs when I started eating cheese.

Actually, I lost all sense of portion size and control- if I "trust my gut" on how much to eat, I'll overeat. I need to re-train my body to eat less, and that means using my head, not just my intuition, in figuring out how much to eat. I was very cerebral about my foods for the first month, then "got into the swing of things" and started trusting my gut again (which was on target for a little while) and then didn't use my head to double-check and keep things under control.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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Peppermint Twist
Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,376
Gender: Female
Location: The Sunshine State
Age: 55
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.

Quoted from EquiPro
I actually had the same thought, Ruthie!

I was wondering that, too...



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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Drea
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SWAMI Warrior ~ Taster, NN, ENFJ
Sun Beh Nim
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Granted, I'm not a Gatherer, but even so...I only get 5 Tablespoons per week of Fats and Oils. I go over that amount; in fact, I don't even measure my fat intake. I do limit myself to beneficial fats (except for the trace amount I get of black dot safflower oil in the apple-juice sweetened cranberries that I buy), mostly walnut oil, evoo, and ghee.


I'm taking my power back by remembering that a belief is only a thought that I keep thinking,
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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 5:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,376
Gender: Female
Location: The Sunshine State
Age: 55
Update:  Guys, I PMed Dr. D regarding the fat situation in SWAMI (namely:  could there be an error in the program some kinda how), and he was fabulous enough to check into it.  He found that there was a perhaps excessive number of modifiers, such as that a female G2 (Gatherer) with a high BMI would end up with very restricted fats.  He said he has tweaked it!  So, I suggest we all rerun our SWAMIs when we get a chance.  There could be a windfall of extra fat!  Yay!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,376
Gender: Female
Location: The Sunshine State
Age: 55
Update to my update:  DUDES!  

It is very dicey for me to be posting at the moment, but d*mn the torpedoes, just have to report that:

I re-ran my SWAMI and my fat portion recommendations have gone from one tablespoon per week, to SIX tablespoons per week!  YAY!  Mind you, not sure if that is all due to Dr. D's above-referenced tweaking or to the fact that--YAY!--since the last time I ran SWAMI, my waist has shrunk by two inches and my hips have shrunk by three inches!  

Whatever the change is due to, my fat recommendation has jumped to a theoretically doable level!  I suggest you all re-run yours and see which way the crow flies!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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jayneeo
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 6,778
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Wha....? You PM-ed Dr. D?  Cool!!!!!!!! Only you could have gotten away with it!
Because of your success story......thak you P.T. and Dr. D.!!
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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
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Double Dudes with a Dawgs on Top!!!!!!!!

I just re-ran my SWAMI report yet again!  WHY?  Because I just realized that I've lost over 25 lbs since the last time I ran it (since the last time I ran it before today, that is--I have NOT lost 25 lbs since earlier today  )!  WOW!

...Fats/oils still came out the same as when I just re-ran it (see earlier post from today) before realizing that I needed to update the weight, but after updating the waist and hip and after Dr. D's tweaking.  I'm still now at six tablespoons per week.  Not sure if I ever get my fingerprint info sorted/correct that it would make any diff, so apparently I really do need to cut my fats back, but at least six tablespoons per week is something somewhat approachable.  So I shall try to cut my added fat intake down way down from this point forward...I probably won't get all the way down to six tablespoons per week, but I'll see, in the immortal words of limbo-ers, how low I can go!  I wouldn't WANT to get lower than six tablespoons per week, but I'll see how low I can go in getting close to it, or maybe even to it.  One never knows  what one is capable of until one tries...


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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yaeli
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Peppermint Twist
Update to my update:  DUDES!  

It is very dicey for me to be posting at the moment, but d*mn the torpedoes, just have to report that:

I re-ran my SWAMI and my fat portion recommendations have gone from one tablespoon per week, to SIX tablespoons per week!  YAY!  Mind you, not sure if that is all due to Dr. D's above-referenced tweaking or to the fact that--YAY!--since the last time I ran SWAMI, my waist has shrunk by two inches and my hips have shrunk by three inches!  

Whatever the change is due to, my fat recommendation has jumped to a theoretically doable level!  I suggest you all re-run yours and see which way the crow flies!

Wow! That's the best news of the day!!!!! Thank you precious Edna.


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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 7:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 55
Well, I re-ran it AGAIN to adjust my activity level from moderately active to very active.  Still at six tablespoons per week.  I get the distinct feeling Dr. D really means I should be at six tablespoons per week.     So I am going to try to get in the general 'hood of that.  It will be a challenge for me, but again, one never knows until one tries...



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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yaeli
Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,557
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Location: Zichron Yaakov, Israel
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This is a great amazing thread!
The integrity, the candor, the initiative, the co-operation, the results, the sweetness, the sense of humour - a diamond!
Saluting you dearest gatherer friends.
Pardon me for being emo. Just a gatherer's typical.


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ruthiegirl
Friday, February 11, 2011, 12:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Or you could aim for one tablespoon per day- it's only up very slightly from 6 tablespoons per week and is an easier number to think about.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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gembead
Friday, February 11, 2011, 1:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm a gatherer and swami says only 2 tablespoons per week, do you i need to include my 2 fish oil caps into that , I take them each day.
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MsRubyLu
Friday, February 11, 2011, 4:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I reran my swami and I also updated my lost weight and inches.  I have 6 T now instead of 1 per week.  I'm soooo happy   Thanks Peppermint  
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BCgal
Saturday, February 12, 2011, 3:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Mine switched up to 1 tbsp. 6x week too.  Great!  One thing I was wondering though, is whether I could up my ghee as part of that oil consumption.  I know it's in the dairy catagory, but I use it as an oil in my stirfrys every morning.  I'm only supposed to have 1/2 tsp. 3x week and that's not happening.  Any thoughts?



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Caz B
Monday, March 2, 2015, 3:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Very interesting reading this four years on.  I will have to check my fat portions but there is no way with the new info out there (I'm talking Low Carb High Fat and stuff like Grain Brain) that I would be restricting my fat intake too much.  As long as it's compliant fat anyway


Personality test ESTJ

Planning to overcome Asthma and Adrenal Fatigue with SWAMI.  

Husband 49yrs, A+ Sec * DD 19yrs, A+ Non * DD 14yrs O

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Mother
Monday, March 2, 2015, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Quoted Text
Very interesting reading this four years on.  I will have to check my fat portions but there is no way with the new info out there (I'm talking Low Carb High Fat and stuff like Grain Brain) that I would be restricting my fat intake too much.  As long as it's compliant fat anyway


I replace a lot of carbs with fat. You have to pick your fuel source. Mine is fat. I just eat limited saturated and more mono. Much better for me. Carbs (grains/starch/sugars) are not my friend. Good fats are


56% hunter secretor
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Irene
Wednesday, August 3, 2016, 9:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My oil/butter weekly portions also scared me when i looked at my swami.And i am in a low fat diet for most of my life....
But,since i want to follow swami and see where it will get me,i try cooking tips.

I noticed,i  have to eat lamp almost everyday,lamp has fat,so i use the fat it stays in the pan to saute the veggies in it and use the olive oil for salad dressing.Butter or ghee,i save it for spread to flaxmeal bread with yam.Also,some days inside month i am not hungry and skip some meal,so less oil.Overhall,i will stay close to measurements,exact 100% i think not unless if i eat my salads raw with pinneaple juice,which haven't try yet.



"Enjoy life and smile"
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Mrs T O+
Thursday, August 4, 2016, 4:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Concealed Carry Gatherer! SWAMI Explorer Blend
Kyosha Nim
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Seriously, I wouldn't worry about the oil portions. I eat a lot more than recommended and don't feel guilty!


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; fishy Christian ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD;  La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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Patty H
Thursday, August 4, 2016, 11:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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What are your fat portions and frequencies?

I see you are using cheese instead of fat.  What are your cheese portions and frequencies?  You might be better off upping your fat frequencies over cheese, if you need to raise one or the other.

I still don't understand why ghee is considered a DAIRY.  If made properly, all the milk fat should be boiled out of it, so I would think it would be a fat, not dairy.  Since ghee is an Ayurvedic superfood, it surprises me that it is classified the same as other dairy.  Dairy is generally considered inflammatory for O's even if you don't know you are developing internal inflammation.  It can take months or years for inflammation to show up.  Ghee is anti-inflammatory.  My SWAMI only gives me 1 teaspoon of ghee per week and I am not overweight.  I'm also a Hunter, not a Gatherer, but still - that's not much ghee.  I eat way more ghee than that.
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Irene
Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 12:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'm (once again) trying to stick to SWAMI portion sizes and frequencies- as a Gatherer, it's my natural inclination to overeat. Overeating on the beneficial and neutral foods doesn't "hurt me" in terms of energy level, pain, ability to fall asleep, etc, but I can't lose weight when I'm consistently eating 4 or 5 square meals a day instead of 3.

I'm focusing on eating lots and lots of veggies, and limiting my grains to the recomended 1-2 per day, and to keep my animal proteins to the recomended amounts. I need to eat lots of veggies to feel satisfied with modest amounts of meats(/eggs/cheeses/fish) and starches. Sticking to about 2 servings of fruit per day (or less) has never been a challenge for me.

I'm not even attempting to follow the "fats and oils" recomendation. I need to eat fewer carbs, and less food altogether. I guess I'm aiming for about a tablespoon, maybe two,  of added fats/oils per day, NOT the 2 tablespoons per week I'm supposed to have. Less than one teaspoon a day? I don't think so!

When I first started SWAMI,  I logged my daily food intake into Fitday a few times and came up with about 1750 calories a day- and that's with eating twice the recomended eggs and more oil than recomended. I few months back, I tried to 100% follow SWAMI portions but found myself cranky, weak and irritable. I logged my food into Fitday and found that I was only eating about 1000 calories- no wonder I felt so awful! I increased my portions of protein and fat and felt much better.

I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.



Hmm,if there is indeed a mistake in swami software about fats,how come they haven't fix it after so many years?1000 calories  as a lifetime diet is wrong.


"Enjoy life and smile"
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Patty H
Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 2:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Although Ruthie is a Gatherer and I am a Hunter, we both have heart disease in our family history so I imagine if you check that off when you input your personal information into SWAMI, it may limit your saturated fats.  Dairy, which ghee is classified as in my SWAMI, is also very limited.  I will say from personal experience that I need to watch the ghee portions because my cholesterol does go up when I eat too much.
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 2:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Even with all my heart problems,  my blood lipids are normal. That includes total cholesterol, HDL,LDL, and their ratios. I had an angiogram about a month ago, which confirmed that my arteries and veins are completely clear. Something's wrong with my heart, but my blood vessels are in perfect shape.

It's clear that, for me personally, saturated fat and cholesterol are not  a problem.

Irene- I have a professional SWAMI, meaning that I can't re-run it myself and play around with different portion sizes or change any of the input. I have to go back to Andrea and have her make the changes, and I'm not going to do that unless I have reason to believe there will be significant changes.  I had it re-run when I did my secretor test.   I haven't re-run it since my recent cardiac problems, but it already has the family history of heart disease entered, so I don't know if that will make any changes either.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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Irene
Sunday, August 14, 2016, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Even with all my heart problems,  my blood lipids are normal. That includes total cholesterol, HDL,LDL, and their ratios. I had an angiogram about a month ago, which confirmed that my arteries and veins are completely clear. Something's wrong with my heart, but my blood vessels are in perfect shape.

It's clear that, for me personally, saturated fat and cholesterol are not  a problem.

Irene- I have a professional SWAMI, meaning that I can't re-run it myself and play around with different portion sizes or change any of the input. I have to go back to Andrea and have her make the changes, and I'm not going to do that unless I have reason to believe there will be significant changes.  I had it re-run when I did my secretor test.   I haven't re-run it since my recent cardiac problems, but it already has the family history of heart disease entered, so I don't know if that will make any changes either.


So,what do you think now,after these years doing this swami.The calories,the fat portions are correct for a young woman to live like this for lifetime or not?

In my swami,it's only the fat and the butter portions i find too low,not that low i can't do it but food is missing oil 😀for butter because it is same category with cheese, i will hardly ever eat butter or ghee to save my weekly cheese portions which are a small daily piece,can't go smaller than that and for oil fats,well,the portions would make sense if i used them for salad toping and had extra oil to cook.In a 1200 calories diet i have done in the past,the ammounts of oil and cheese were double than my swami,the nutritionist told me not to care if i need to add some more oil inside the food to be cooked since most oil is evaporated and  stays in the pan.

In my personalised recipes,the oil portions are bigger,which made me wonder if the recipe gives 1 serving or more.....but a recipe like for salad or fish,is supposed to be 1 serving unless it writes how many servings it makes,right?




"Enjoy life and smile"
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Lola
Monday, August 15, 2016, 2:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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try use common sense

our body knows when we go overboard


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ESTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Patty H
Monday, August 15, 2016, 1:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ghee and butter, particularly ghee (clarified butter), would be much more healthy to consume than daily cheese.  I'm surprised your SWAMI gives one dairy serving per day.  I get one dairy serving per week.  I know you are a Gatherer and I am a Hunter, so maybe that is the difference.  For fats and oils, I get six servings per week.  If you add that up, it is one serving daily of fat/oil if you choose ghee or butter over cheese.

Ghee is an Ayurvedic superfood, anti-inflammatory, has many health benefits and very healing to the gut, whereas cheese is inflammatory.  I know you love your cheese, but ghee is a far superior choice for healing and weight loss.  They are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to health and wellness as a food.  This is an example where not all calories are equal.  

It's very easy to make and will keep for months at a time.  Just buy the highest quality, grass fed butter you can find and simmer it to get the milk fat out.   There are several links online that show how to make it.

Below are a few links on the major health benefits of ghee.  Weight loss is one of the major benefits you might find interesting.  The third link has a link to a study showing that CLA is excellent for weight loss.  Ghee is high in CLA.

https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/other/ghee-clarified-butter.html

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/15-amazing-benefits-of-ghee.html

http://www.culinarynutrition.com/4-unexpected-health-benefits-of-ghee-clarified-butter/
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ruthiegirl
Monday, August 15, 2016, 4:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Irene


So,what do you think now,after these years doing this swami.The calories,the fat portions are correct for a young woman to live like this for lifetime or not?  
I think SWAMI is correct for the portions of fruits, nuts, grains, etc, but doesn't give me enough fats. I'm also not quite sure it  gives me enough protein, but  as I've stated before, I don't have the option to play around with portion sizes on the professional SWAMI. I know that the home version lets you make adjustments, and SWAMI would give me more food total if I adjusted it. But the food lists would not change.

Quoted Text

In my swami,it's only the fat and the butter portions i find too low,not that low i can't do it but food is missing oil 😀for butter because it is same category with cheese, i will hardly ever eat butter or ghee to save my weekly cheese portions which are a small daily piece,can't go smaller than that and for oil fats,well,the portions would make sense if i used them for salad toping and had extra oil to cook.In a 1200 calories diet i have done in the past,the ammounts of oil and cheese were double than my swami,the nutritionist told me not to care if i need to add some more oil inside the food to be cooked since most oil is evaporated and  stays in the pan.

In my personalised recipes,the oil portions are bigger,which made me wonder if the recipe gives 1 serving or more.....but a recipe like for salad or fish,is supposed to be 1 serving unless it writes how many servings it makes,right?
  I think you use apply common sense to your SWAMI report. If you need more fat than SWAMI gives you, then eat more fat. I would suggest counting butter and ghee as "fats and oils" rather than "dairy" and double the reccomended fat portions. Then you can adjust that up or down as you see how your body reacts to it.

As far as I'm concerned,there's only one advantage to ghee being in the "butter" category. I can completely cut all cheeses out of my diet, but continue to eat ghee, and not feel like I'm "cutting a whole food group of of my diet". You don't need to cut out that small amount of daily cheese if that's working for you.



Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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Irene
Monday, August 15, 2016, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I think SWAMI is correct for the portions of fruits, nuts, grains, etc, but doesn't give me enough fats. I'm also not quite sure it  gives me enough protein, but  as I've stated before, I don't have the option to play around with portion sizes on the professional SWAMI. I know that the home version lets you make adjustments, and SWAMI would give me more food total if I adjusted it. But the food lists would not change.

  I think you use apply common sense to your SWAMI report. If you need more fat than SWAMI gives you, then eat more fat. I would suggest counting butter and ghee as "fats and oils" rather than "dairy" and double the reccomended fat portions. Then you can adjust that up or down as you see how your body reacts to it.

As far as I'm concerned,there's only one advantage to ghee being in the "butter" category. I can completely cut all cheeses out of my diet, but continue to eat ghee, and not feel like I'm "cutting a whole food group of of my diet". You don't need to cut out that small amount of daily cheese if that's working for you.



I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does,veggies are more than i can eat too,i think i will be able to eat all of them when i will start training again,will make green smoothies and will make meat into burgers to eat before training.

From what you write,i get the impression swami can show different servings according to  how you run it?


"Enjoy life and smile"
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Mother
Monday, August 15, 2016, 6:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Yes Irene, you can chose smaller meals less frequent, larger meals more often etc. it just down sizes portions but doesn't change food values.

I too cannot eat as much protein as recommended and I need probably 3x the fat. I choose to get most of my fats from mono/ plant fats and fish like tuna and salmon. I do eat beef and lamb in small amounts but trim my lamb chops of visible fat. I like lean steak but also a gf burger.

I don't give a second thought to the quantity of fat I eat. That's what satiates me most.


56% hunter secretor
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Patty H
Monday, August 15, 2016, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,681
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 58
Quoted from Irene


I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does,veggies are more than i can eat too,i think i will be able to eat all of them when i will start training again,will make green smoothies and will make meat into burgers to eat before training.

From what you write,i get the impression swami can show different servings according to  how you run it?


Yes, you can set your SWAMI to give you lower food portions.  That's how my SWAMI is set, both my SWAMI-Pro and my SWAMI XP.

Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.  The right kind of fats and oils are anti-inflammatory by nature.  Given that you are from Greece, I imagine you have amazingly good olive oil at your disposal.  It's one of the best foods an O can consume!  
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san j
Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 4:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
Quoted from Irene
Quoted from Patty H
Ghee and butter, particularly ghee (clarified butter), would be much more healthy to consume than daily cheese...Ghee is an Ayurvedic superfood, anti-inflammatory, has many health benefits and very healing to the gut, whereas cheese is inflammatory.  I know you love your cheese, but ghee is a far superior choice for healing and weight loss.  They are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to health and wellness as a food.
I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does
Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.
[emphases mine]

It's important to recognize that we are individuals.

Between O Genotypes,
(1) Hunter is considered "reactive", having to watch inflammation, while Gatherer is considered "thrifty", having a metabolic basis to survival, responding "to scarcity by slowing down their metabolisms"; while Inflammation is indeed a major concern for the Hunter and Explorer, Gatherers have different concerns.

(2) As for ghee and butter being "much more healthy", and ghee "a far superior choice for healing and weight loss" (for Gatherers too), Dr. D'Adamo differs (in The Genotype Diet), rating:
Butter as a Hunter Superfood but only a Gatherer Neutral
Ghee as a Hunter Diamond (weightloss) Superfood but a Gatherer Superfood (no Diamond/weightloss)
Hunters with NO Diamond (weightloss) cheeses, but Gatherers with four of them!

I don't know why Hunter-appropriate corrections are being delivered to a Gatherer here, but they are.  


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Patty H
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Quoted from Patty H
Quoted from Irene
I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does
Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.
[emphases mine]

Quoted from san j
It's important to recognize that we are individuals.

Between O Genotypes,
(1) Hunter is considered "reactive", having to watch inflammation, while Gatherer is considered "thrifty", having a metabolic basis to survival, responding "to scarcity by slowing down their metabolisms"; while Inflammation is indeed a major concern for the Hunter and Explorer, Gatherers have different concerns.

(2) As for ghee and butter being "much more healthy", and ghee "a far superior choice for healing and weight loss" (for Gatherers too), Dr. D'Adamo differs (in The Genotype Diet), rating:
Butter as a Hunter Superfood but only a Gatherer Neutral
Ghee as a Hunter Diamond (weightloss) Superfood but a Gatherer Superfood (no Diamond/weightloss)
Hunters with NO Diamond (weightloss) cheeses, but Gatherers with four of them!

I don't know why Hunter-appropriate corrections are being delivered to a Gatherer here, but they are.  


Irene has a personal SWAMI and is not following the book, Sanj, so unless she shares the ratings of those foods on her SWAMI, we have no idea how they rate.  I'm not sure why you are offering advice based on the book when she's not following the book  

Regarding your quoting the ratings of foods from the book, I have two diamond cheeses on my SWAMI Pro and butter and ghee are only superfoods, so again, quoting the book is inaccurate.

Irene's question is about not having enough fat in her diet and she has been limiting her daily fats so that she can eat cheese daily.  If you read some of my earlier posts, you will see that I acknowledge the different genotypes.

Any GenoType can deal with chronic inflammation when not eating healthy, anti-inflammatory foods such as healthy fats in the form of olive oil, nuts, seeds, ghee, etc.  I have enough heart disease in my own family to have observed this first hand.  It's the A's who seem to have heart attacks whereas the O's seem to need bypass surgery without the heart attacks.  There are certainly no Hunters among those A's.  Chronic inflammation is the root cause of ALL major disease.  Saying it is only Hunters who experience it is not true.  It certainly is a hallmark of Hunters but anyone, regardless of blood type and genotype can develop inflammation.

Revision History (3 edits)
C_Sharp  -  Tuesday, August 23, 2016, 4:26am
Another try at correcting quote attribution
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Lloyd  -  Sunday, August 21, 2016, 11:02pm
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Mother
Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 1:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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What you post San j does not apply to my SWAMI.
I have 4 diamond cheeses, 2 super and butter and ghee are both super, not diamonds. Though I may be able to digest those cheeses it packs pounds on fast and causes inflammation. So not super or diamond to me. I can't believe you've 'followed' BT this long and still don't have a SWAMI. Maybe you would understand the different ratings if you had one.


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san j
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If, by your admission, you are not privy to her SWAMI recommendations, then I'd agree with this:
Quoted from Patty H
unless she shares the ratings of those foods on her SWAMI, we have no idea how they rate.
EXACTLY. So: Where does this come from?
Quoted from Patty H
Ghee and butter, particularly ghee (clarified butter), would be much more healthy to consume than daily cheese...I know you love your cheese, but ghee is a far superior choice for healing and weight loss.  They are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to health and wellness as a food.

Thar's the Rub.  

Remember:

(1) "Gatherer Fat Portions" is the name of the thread rosa resurrected in order to get an answer to her question.
(2) "45% Gatherer" is how rosa identifies herself in her avatar.
Therefore: I respond with the reminder that Hunter-skewed rhetoric dissing cheese in favor of ghee for weight loss, may be (to use my critic's word) "inaccurate"-- i.e., irrelevant either to the questioner's SWAMI or to the Gatherer parameters defined in the book.
Seeing as we have, as you say, no way of knowing without seeing her SWAMI, a blanket condemnation of cheese is out of line.  


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Patty H
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Ee Dan
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Age: 58
Quoted from san j
If, by your admission, you are not privy to her SWAMI recommendations, then I'd agree with this:
EXACTLY. So: Where does this come from?

Thar's the Rub.  

Remember:

(1) "Gatherer Fat Portions" is the name of the thread rosa resurrected in order to get an answer to her question.
(2) "45% Gatherer" is how rosa identifies herself in her avatar.
Therefore: I respond with the reminder that Hunter-skewed rhetoric dissing cheese in favor of ghee for weight loss, may be (to use my critic's word) "inaccurate"-- i.e., irrelevant either to the questioner's SWAMI or to the Gatherer parameters defined in the book.
Seeing as we have, as you say, no way of knowing without seeing her SWAMI, a blanket condemnation of cheese is out of line.  


Sanj, I will admit that you are correct here.  When I am wrong I say I am wrong.  Here is how I was wrong:

After I posted my response, I thought about the idea that Hunter's hallmark can be dealing with chronic inflammation if they are on the wrong diet.  Now I will say again that ANY person can deal with chronic inflammation if they are on the wrong diet.  That is a given, but for Hunters it seems to be more so.  Then I got to thinking, what is the hallmark of the Gatherer downfall.  After all, each GenoType has their positive aspects and their negative aspects.  There is no one good or bad GenoType.  Since I don't have access to a Gatherer's SWAMI, I decided to go back to The GenoType Diet book to better understand the problem areas for a Gatherer.  I have read it before because I believe that both my DH and DD are both Gatherers while my DS is a Hunter like me, but I certainly had not read all the info on Gatherers in quite some time.  It was a good refresher and helped me to understand my error.

Below is where I was wrong in my advice to Irene.  It goes directly to the topic of this thread, Irene's question as to whether the Gatherer fat portions are a mistake, the discussion about the tiny amount of fats that Gatherers get in their SWAMIs and why:

Quoted Text
Page 131, Problem Areas for the Gatherer

Gatherer's metabolic thriftiness, such a survival asset in ancient times of scarcity, comes with a price to pay  It doesn't fit the lifestyle of the modern industrialized world, with its amply and inexpensively available carbohydrates and fats.  The vast majority of these excess carbohydrates and fats will be taken out of the bloodstream and stored.  However, Gatherers are usually so good at taking sugar out of the bloodstream and storing it that they essentially spend most of their time in a permanent state of hypoglycemia.  They suffer on two accounts:  First, the energy sources are stored instead of burnt, resulting in weight gain; and second, they don't get the "reward" of having consumed these nutrients because they are removed so efficiently from the bloodstream that the brain and muscle tissue fails to get their fair share.

This eventually fractures the relationship between food and appetite to the point that Gatherers begin to eat simply to feel better rather than as a result of hunger signaling.  The effects are chronic and serious.  Gatherers can easily develop disturbances of their carbohydrate regulation and insulin sensitivity, resulting in metabolic Syndrome X and "diabesity."  It is a slippery slope from there to artery disease, kidney disease, and premature aging.   . . .



Quoted Text
Page 132, The Gatherer Metabolism

. . .  If their metabolic thriftiness is corrected through diet and proper lifestyle, Gatherers can age very well.  However, there is a direct link between diet and aging.  Gatherers who let their thriftiness go unchecked, who rob their systems of calories with extreme weight-loss diets, and who continue to accumulate fat stores are going to do long-term damage to their bodies.  The surfaces of their cells literally become gummed up with sugar and fat or sugar and protein complexes, preventing them from performing properly.   . . .


Quoted Text
Page 135, Gatherer Diet Don'ts

Gatherer Don'ts are foods that are best minimized or outright avoided.  The Gatherer Don'ts exclude from the diet those foods that:

* Slow down the Gather metabolism.  Many grains, nuts, and seeds can interfere with the proper function of insulin, causing the Gatherer to lose weight with only the greatest difficulty.
* Enhance the deposition of cellular debris.  Foods known to enhance the production of AGEs are excluded from the Gatherer diet.
*Are high-glycemic foods.  High-glycemic foods produce large fluctuations in blood glucose and insulin levels.  Avoiding these is the secret to reducing your risk of heart disease and diabetes and is the key to sustainable weight loss.
*Block proper hormone stimulation.   Gatherers rarely require hormone therapy.  More often, they require that something be done to restore sensitivity to their own hormones.  Foods that interfere with optimal hormone function in the Gather need to be avoided, especially in the early stages of the diet.


After reading this, I believe my error was in advising Irene to up her fats, nuts and seeds if she wanted to lose weight.  The Gatherers who have posted here recently, Irene, Ruthiegirl and rosa, all have SWAMIs.  After reading this, I can understand why Gatherers get very little fat in their SWAMI diets.  They store it and don't burn it.  So I would have to correct my previous advice and advise the Gatherers, given this information, to follow the SWAMI portions of the fat allowed and keep the carbs at a minimum.  It's probably not what people want to hear, but I hope you can see the wisdom in Dr. D portion sizes for fat and carbs.  They are the downfall of the Gatherer GenoType.

I apologize for my error.

Revision History (3 edits)
Patty H  -  Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 10:00pm
Patty H  -  Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 9:56pm
Patty H  -  Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 9:56pm
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Irene
Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 12:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Irene
I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does
Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.[/quote][emphases mine]

It's important to recognize that we are individuals.

Between O Genotypes,
(1) Hunter is considered "reactive", having to watch inflammation, while Gatherer is considered "thrifty", having a metabolic basis to survival, responding "to scarcity by slowing down their metabolisms"; while Inflammation is indeed a major concern for the Hunter and Explorer, Gatherers have different concerns.

(2) As for ghee and butter being "much more healthy", and ghee "a far superior choice for healing and weight loss" (for Gatherers too), Dr. D'Adamo differs (in The Genotype Diet), rating:
Butter as a Hunter Superfood but only a Gatherer Neutral
Ghee as a Hunter Diamond (weightloss) Superfood but a Gatherer Superfood (no Diamond/weightloss)
Hunters with NO Diamond (weightloss) cheeses, but Gatherers with four of them!

I don't know why Hunter-appropriate corrections are being delivered to a Gatherer here, but they are.  [/quote]


I agree with you ☺.i have cheese and ghee as superfoods,noone as diamond,but the portion and servings of ghee is so little,i have to sacrifice all the cheese of the week to eat  1 Tablespoon of ghee once,makes no sense to do it for me,i don't miss butter even if i don't eat it ever,but,it is like if i haven't eat at all if my meal doesn't contain the cheeses i use,not just any cheese.When i was on diets without cheese everyday,i end up not eating the meal and be left hungry or if i forced myself to eat,was a matter of weeks to become so nervous i couldn't be in diet anymore.The type of cheeses i eat are kefalotyri,parmezzano,mozzarela for toast and greek gruyere that look  similar to kefalotyri but with less salt,feta i eat but doesn't give me energy.

Since i am like this since i was a small child,i believe it's not the fat of cheese that makes me needed it,for me it works like a protein+fat+mood modulator =a complete meal that satisfies and nurishes me leaving my stomach with a light feeling.(again this stands for the right cheeses,gouda let's say feels like a mass of bad fat).But,i don't know if the right cheeses do contain something-(like meat does) that makes weight loss,but i believe since they play their part in keeping me full and satisfied,Dr.D once again knew it that's why they are part of the diet.In fact,the cheeses he choosed in BTD book for 0,was the ultimate evidance to me he knew what he was doing.

About the oil servings,4 Tablespoon for the whole week isn't enough even for cooking,the veggies will be without that's why i asked if fats in swami have some kind of mistake.Since i believe in Dr.D work,i am trying to stay atleast close to these 4 Ts,saute veggies inside meat's fat,eating veggies just with lemon,i am sure i consume 1-2 Tablespoons more per week.😐

About the ancient gathering fuction of gathere's body,from my expierence,i see it triggers anytime i was in a low calorie diet and had to live been hungry-(or diet missed the cheese 😊-) or anytime i was in any kind of danger physical or psychological.I guess my body works in defend mode gathering like if i am besieged.

That's very annoying since anytime i will get sick,let's say by a serious cold,or i have a big argument in work,my weight will be a little up!For me to loose weight and keep it off,i need stay away from accidents,have a good, calm life and a balanced diet with meat.Since in the life i have,the stress is an issue in my work and not only,i saw myself changing  from a defense mode going to organised attacks in my behavor which i like it.😁


"Enjoy life and smile"

Revision History (1 edits)
Lloyd  -  Sunday, August 21, 2016, 10:59pm
corrected quote attribution (post #44)
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Patty H
Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 1:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,681
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 58
Quoted from Irene
Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.
[emphases mine]

Quoted from Sanj
Quoted Text
It's important to recognize that we are individuals.

Between O Genotypes,
(1) Hunter is considered "reactive", having to watch inflammation, while Gatherer is considered "thrifty", having a metabolic basis to survival, responding "to scarcity by slowing down their metabolisms"; while Inflammation is indeed a major concern for the Hunter and Explorer, Gatherers have different concerns.

(2) As for ghee and butter being "much more healthy", and ghee "a far superior choice for healing and weight loss" (for Gatherers too), Dr. D'Adamo differs (in The Genotype Diet), rating:
Butter as a Hunter Superfood but only a Gatherer Neutral
Ghee as a Hunter Diamond (weightloss) Superfood but a Gatherer Superfood (no Diamond/weightloss)
Hunters with NO Diamond (weightloss) cheeses, but Gatherers with four of them!

I don't know why Hunter-appropriate corrections are being delivered to a Gatherer here, but they are.  


[/quote]
Quoted from Irene
Quoted Text
I agree with you ☺.i have cheese and ghee as superfoods,noone as diamond,but the portion and servings of ghee is so little,i have to sacrifice all the cheese of the week to eat  1 Tablespoon of ghee once,makes no sense to do it for me,i don't miss butter even if i don't eat it ever,but,it is like if i haven't eat at all if my meal doesn't contain the cheeses i use,not just any cheese.When i was on diets without cheese everyday,i end up not eating the meal and be left hungry or if i forced myself to eat,was a matter of weeks to become so nervous i couldn't be in diet anymore.The type of cheeses i eat are kefalotyri,parmezzano,mozzarela for toast and greek gruyere that look  similar to kefalotyri but with less salt,feta i eat but doesn't give me energy.

Since i am like this since i was a small child,i believe it's not the fat of cheese that makes me needed it,for me it works like a protein+fat+mood modulator =a complete meal that satisfies and nurishes me leaving my stomach with a light feeling.(again this stands for the right cheeses,gouda let's say feels like a mass of bad fat).But,i don't know if the right cheeses do contain something-(like meat does) that makes weight loss,but i believe since they play their part in keeping me full and satisfied,Dr.D once again knew it that's why they are part of the diet.In fact,the cheeses he choosed in BTD book for 0,was the ultimate evidance to me he knew what he was doing.

About the oil servings,4 Tablespoon for the whole week isn't enough even for cooking,the veggies will be without that's why i asked if fats in swami have some kind of mistake.Since i believe in Dr.D work,i am trying to stay atleast close to these 4 Ts,saute veggies inside meat's fat,eating veggies just with lemon,i am sure i consume 1-2 Tablespoons more per week.😐

About the ancient gathering fuction of gathere's body,from my expierence,i see it triggers anytime i was in a low calorie diet and had to live been hungry-(or diet missed the cheese 😊-) or anytime i was in any kind of danger physical or psychological.I guess my body works in defend mode gathering like if i am besieged.

That's very annoying since anytime i will get sick,let's say by a serious cold,or i have a big argument in work,my weight will be a little up!For me to loose weight i need a good, calm life and a balanced diet with meat.

[/quote]
Irene, I'm not sure if you read my post before you posted this.  I am in agreement that fat is not for you.  I posted an apology.

Have you tried steaming your vegetables?  Many of us do that instead of cooking them in oil or fat.  I saw that you also marinate your fish in oil.  You could save your oil by cooking your fish without marinating them and cooking them with herbs instead.  Sometimes learning to cook differently can help you - it certainly helped me.  There is no need to cook most foods in oils.  Many of us use water instead of oil.

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Patty H  -  Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 8:46pm
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rosa
Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 4:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j


(1) "Gatherer Fat Portions" is the name of the thread rosa resurrected in order to get an answer to her question.
(2) "45% Gatherer" is how rosa identifies herself in her avatar.


San J,
you must be mistaken..I did not resurrect this thread  
So I do not have a question to be answered  



INFJ, Enneagram 9. DH A-, 3 grown children all O+.
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Irene
Friday, August 19, 2016, 9:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Second week in swami trying hard to keep the fat portions to 1 olive oil teaspoon per day and i got a craving episode,which i haven't got for many years,irresistible desire to eat a certain food without been hungry.I ate tahini with honey and nuts after my dinner,4 big Tablespoons......

Maybe i kept lower grains too...i didn't have daily grains at all,exept from the spaggetti dinner.But,this sensation i have with my swami,that food miss oil,maybe i am correct and for sure i don't want cravings to happen,i will add a little more fat to see if i am stable.


"Enjoy life and smile"
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Patty H
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HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Age: 58
Quoted from Irene
Second week in swami trying hard to keep the fat portions to 1 olive oil teaspoon per day and i got a craving episode,which i haven't got for many years,irresistible desire to eat a certain food without been hungry.I ate tahini with honey and nuts after my dinner,4 big Tablespoons......

Maybe i kept lower grains too...i didn't have daily grains at all,exept from the spaggetti dinner.But,this sensation i have with my swami,that food miss oil,maybe i am correct and for sure i don't want cravings to happen,i will add a little more fat to see if i am stable.


I think this is a good plan.  Instead of eating your cheese in place of your fat, eat what you are allowed for cheese and add some fat, as long as it is healthy fat!  The right fat in the diet can be very satiating.
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Mother
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56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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I am NEVER satisfied without enough fat. And I need much more than SWAMI recommends


56% hunter secretor
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md
Saturday, August 20, 2016, 1:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
I am NEVER satisfied without enough fat. And I need much more than SWAMI recommends


The same goes for me.



ISFP
Sirach 37:27
For not every food is good for everyone, nor is everything suited to every taste.



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As I've said before, I eat a lot more fat than SWAMI recommends. I think others who feel they need more to go ahead and have it.  So, Irene, please go ahead and have some more fat, the good kind!


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; fishy Christian ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD;  La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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