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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  Help!  Gatherer fat portions!
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Help!  Gatherer fat portions!
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yaeli
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,557
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Location: Zichron Yaakov, Israel
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Quoted from Peppermint Twist
Update to my update:  DUDES!  

It is very dicey for me to be posting at the moment, but d*mn the torpedoes, just have to report that:

I re-ran my SWAMI and my fat portion recommendations have gone from one tablespoon per week, to SIX tablespoons per week!  YAY!  Mind you, not sure if that is all due to Dr. D's above-referenced tweaking or to the fact that--YAY!--since the last time I ran SWAMI, my waist has shrunk by two inches and my hips have shrunk by three inches!  

Whatever the change is due to, my fat recommendation has jumped to a theoretically doable level!  I suggest you all re-run yours and see which way the crow flies!

Wow! That's the best news of the day!!!!! Thank you precious Edna.


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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, February 10, 2011, 7:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Genotype = Gatherer; BT/GTDer since 97 and lost 97
Kyosha Nim
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Well, I re-ran it AGAIN to adjust my activity level from moderately active to very active.  Still at six tablespoons per week.  I get the distinct feeling Dr. D really means I should be at six tablespoons per week.     So I am going to try to get in the general 'hood of that.  It will be a challenge for me, but again, one never knows until one tries...



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - me -

Jung/Myers-Briggs personality type:  INFJ
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yaeli
Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,557
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Location: Zichron Yaakov, Israel
Age: 68
This is a great amazing thread!
The integrity, the candor, the initiative, the co-operation, the results, the sweetness, the sense of humour - a diamond!
Saluting you dearest gatherer friends.
Pardon me for being emo. Just a gatherer's typical.


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ruthiegirl
Friday, February 11, 2011, 12:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Or you could aim for one tablespoon per day- it's only up very slightly from 6 tablespoons per week and is an easier number to think about.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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gembead
Friday, February 11, 2011, 1:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm a gatherer and swami says only 2 tablespoons per week, do you i need to include my 2 fish oil caps into that , I take them each day.
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MsRubyLu
Friday, February 11, 2011, 4:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I reran my swami and I also updated my lost weight and inches.  I have 6 T now instead of 1 per week.  I'm soooo happy   Thanks Peppermint  
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BCgal
Saturday, February 12, 2011, 3:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swamied GATHERER
Ee Dan
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Mine switched up to 1 tbsp. 6x week too.  Great!  One thing I was wondering though, is whether I could up my ghee as part of that oil consumption.  I know it's in the dairy catagory, but I use it as an oil in my stirfrys every morning.  I'm only supposed to have 1/2 tsp. 3x week and that's not happening.  Any thoughts?



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Caz B
Monday, March 2, 2015, 3:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Very interesting reading this four years on.  I will have to check my fat portions but there is no way with the new info out there (I'm talking Low Carb High Fat and stuff like Grain Brain) that I would be restricting my fat intake too much.  As long as it's compliant fat anyway


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Mother
Monday, March 2, 2015, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Quoted Text
Very interesting reading this four years on.  I will have to check my fat portions but there is no way with the new info out there (I'm talking Low Carb High Fat and stuff like Grain Brain) that I would be restricting my fat intake too much.  As long as it's compliant fat anyway


I replace a lot of carbs with fat. You have to pick your fuel source. Mine is fat. I just eat limited saturated and more mono. Much better for me. Carbs (grains/starch/sugars) are not my friend. Good fats are


56% hunter secretor
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Irene
Wednesday, August 3, 2016, 9:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My oil/butter weekly portions also scared me when i looked at my swami.And i am in a low fat diet for most of my life....
But,since i want to follow swami and see where it will get me,i try cooking tips.

I noticed,i  have to eat lamp almost everyday,lamp has fat,so i use the fat it stays in the pan to saute the veggies in it and use the olive oil for salad dressing.Butter or ghee,i save it for spread to flaxmeal bread with yam.Also,some days inside month i am not hungry and skip some meal,so less oil.Overhall,i will stay close to measurements,exact 100% i think not unless if i eat my salads raw with pinneaple juice,which haven't try yet.



"Enjoy life and smile"
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Mrs T O+
Thursday, August 4, 2016, 4:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Concealed Carry Gatherer! SWAMI Explorer Blend
Kyosha Nim
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Seriously, I wouldn't worry about the oil portions. I eat a lot more than recommended and don't feel guilty!


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; fishy Christian ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD;  La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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Patty H
Thursday, August 4, 2016, 11:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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What are your fat portions and frequencies?

I see you are using cheese instead of fat.  What are your cheese portions and frequencies?  You might be better off upping your fat frequencies over cheese, if you need to raise one or the other.

I still don't understand why ghee is considered a DAIRY.  If made properly, all the milk fat should be boiled out of it, so I would think it would be a fat, not dairy.  Since ghee is an Ayurvedic superfood, it surprises me that it is classified the same as other dairy.  Dairy is generally considered inflammatory for O's even if you don't know you are developing internal inflammation.  It can take months or years for inflammation to show up.  Ghee is anti-inflammatory.  My SWAMI only gives me 1 teaspoon of ghee per week and I am not overweight.  I'm also a Hunter, not a Gatherer, but still - that's not much ghee.  I eat way more ghee than that.


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Irene
Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 12:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'm (once again) trying to stick to SWAMI portion sizes and frequencies- as a Gatherer, it's my natural inclination to overeat. Overeating on the beneficial and neutral foods doesn't "hurt me" in terms of energy level, pain, ability to fall asleep, etc, but I can't lose weight when I'm consistently eating 4 or 5 square meals a day instead of 3.

I'm focusing on eating lots and lots of veggies, and limiting my grains to the recomended 1-2 per day, and to keep my animal proteins to the recomended amounts. I need to eat lots of veggies to feel satisfied with modest amounts of meats(/eggs/cheeses/fish) and starches. Sticking to about 2 servings of fruit per day (or less) has never been a challenge for me.

I'm not even attempting to follow the "fats and oils" recomendation. I need to eat fewer carbs, and less food altogether. I guess I'm aiming for about a tablespoon, maybe two,  of added fats/oils per day, NOT the 2 tablespoons per week I'm supposed to have. Less than one teaspoon a day? I don't think so!

When I first started SWAMI,  I logged my daily food intake into Fitday a few times and came up with about 1750 calories a day- and that's with eating twice the recomended eggs and more oil than recomended. I few months back, I tried to 100% follow SWAMI portions but found myself cranky, weak and irritable. I logged my food into Fitday and found that I was only eating about 1000 calories- no wonder I felt so awful! I increased my portions of protein and fat and felt much better.

I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.



Hmm,if there is indeed a mistake in swami software about fats,how come they haven't fix it after so many years?1000 calories  as a lifetime diet is wrong.


"Enjoy life and smile"
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Patty H
Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 2:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Although Ruthie is a Gatherer and I am a Hunter, we both have heart disease in our family history so I imagine if you check that off when you input your personal information into SWAMI, it may limit your saturated fats.  Dairy, which ghee is classified as in my SWAMI, is also very limited.  I will say from personal experience that I need to watch the ghee portions because my cholesterol does go up when I eat too much.


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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 2:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Even with all my heart problems,  my blood lipids are normal. That includes total cholesterol, HDL,LDL, and their ratios. I had an angiogram about a month ago, which confirmed that my arteries and veins are completely clear. Something's wrong with my heart, but my blood vessels are in perfect shape.

It's clear that, for me personally, saturated fat and cholesterol are not  a problem.

Irene- I have a professional SWAMI, meaning that I can't re-run it myself and play around with different portion sizes or change any of the input. I have to go back to Andrea and have her make the changes, and I'm not going to do that unless I have reason to believe there will be significant changes.  I had it re-run when I did my secretor test.   I haven't re-run it since my recent cardiac problems, but it already has the family history of heart disease entered, so I don't know if that will make any changes either.


Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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Irene
Sunday, August 14, 2016, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Even with all my heart problems,  my blood lipids are normal. That includes total cholesterol, HDL,LDL, and their ratios. I had an angiogram about a month ago, which confirmed that my arteries and veins are completely clear. Something's wrong with my heart, but my blood vessels are in perfect shape.

It's clear that, for me personally, saturated fat and cholesterol are not  a problem.

Irene- I have a professional SWAMI, meaning that I can't re-run it myself and play around with different portion sizes or change any of the input. I have to go back to Andrea and have her make the changes, and I'm not going to do that unless I have reason to believe there will be significant changes.  I had it re-run when I did my secretor test.   I haven't re-run it since my recent cardiac problems, but it already has the family history of heart disease entered, so I don't know if that will make any changes either.


So,what do you think now,after these years doing this swami.The calories,the fat portions are correct for a young woman to live like this for lifetime or not?

In my swami,it's only the fat and the butter portions i find too low,not that low i can't do it but food is missing oil 😀for butter because it is same category with cheese, i will hardly ever eat butter or ghee to save my weekly cheese portions which are a small daily piece,can't go smaller than that and for oil fats,well,the portions would make sense if i used them for salad toping and had extra oil to cook.In a 1200 calories diet i have done in the past,the ammounts of oil and cheese were double than my swami,the nutritionist told me not to care if i need to add some more oil inside the food to be cooked since most oil is evaporated and  stays in the pan.

In my personalised recipes,the oil portions are bigger,which made me wonder if the recipe gives 1 serving or more.....but a recipe like for salad or fish,is supposed to be 1 serving unless it writes how many servings it makes,right?




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Lola
Monday, August 15, 2016, 2:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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try use common sense

our body knows when we go overboard


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Patty H
Monday, August 15, 2016, 1:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Ghee and butter, particularly ghee (clarified butter), would be much more healthy to consume than daily cheese.  I'm surprised your SWAMI gives one dairy serving per day.  I get one dairy serving per week.  I know you are a Gatherer and I am a Hunter, so maybe that is the difference.  For fats and oils, I get six servings per week.  If you add that up, it is one serving daily of fat/oil if you choose ghee or butter over cheese.

Ghee is an Ayurvedic superfood, anti-inflammatory, has many health benefits and very healing to the gut, whereas cheese is inflammatory.  I know you love your cheese, but ghee is a far superior choice for healing and weight loss.  They are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to health and wellness as a food.  This is an example where not all calories are equal.  

It's very easy to make and will keep for months at a time.  Just buy the highest quality, grass fed butter you can find and simmer it to get the milk fat out.   There are several links online that show how to make it.

Below are a few links on the major health benefits of ghee.  Weight loss is one of the major benefits you might find interesting.  The third link has a link to a study showing that CLA is excellent for weight loss.  Ghee is high in CLA.

https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/other/ghee-clarified-butter.html

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/15-amazing-benefits-of-ghee.html

http://www.culinarynutrition.com/4-unexpected-health-benefits-of-ghee-clarified-butter/


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ruthiegirl
Monday, August 15, 2016, 4:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Irene


So,what do you think now,after these years doing this swami.The calories,the fat portions are correct for a young woman to live like this for lifetime or not?  
I think SWAMI is correct for the portions of fruits, nuts, grains, etc, but doesn't give me enough fats. I'm also not quite sure it  gives me enough protein, but  as I've stated before, I don't have the option to play around with portion sizes on the professional SWAMI. I know that the home version lets you make adjustments, and SWAMI would give me more food total if I adjusted it. But the food lists would not change.

Quoted Text

In my swami,it's only the fat and the butter portions i find too low,not that low i can't do it but food is missing oil 😀for butter because it is same category with cheese, i will hardly ever eat butter or ghee to save my weekly cheese portions which are a small daily piece,can't go smaller than that and for oil fats,well,the portions would make sense if i used them for salad toping and had extra oil to cook.In a 1200 calories diet i have done in the past,the ammounts of oil and cheese were double than my swami,the nutritionist told me not to care if i need to add some more oil inside the food to be cooked since most oil is evaporated and  stays in the pan.

In my personalised recipes,the oil portions are bigger,which made me wonder if the recipe gives 1 serving or more.....but a recipe like for salad or fish,is supposed to be 1 serving unless it writes how many servings it makes,right?
  I think you use apply common sense to your SWAMI report. If you need more fat than SWAMI gives you, then eat more fat. I would suggest counting butter and ghee as "fats and oils" rather than "dairy" and double the reccomended fat portions. Then you can adjust that up or down as you see how your body reacts to it.

As far as I'm concerned,there's only one advantage to ghee being in the "butter" category. I can completely cut all cheeses out of my diet, but continue to eat ghee, and not feel like I'm "cutting a whole food group of of my diet". You don't need to cut out that small amount of daily cheese if that's working for you.



Ruth, Single Mother to 21 yo  O- Leah , 20 yo O- Hannah, and  14 yo B+ Jack


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Irene
Monday, August 15, 2016, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I think SWAMI is correct for the portions of fruits, nuts, grains, etc, but doesn't give me enough fats. I'm also not quite sure it  gives me enough protein, but  as I've stated before, I don't have the option to play around with portion sizes on the professional SWAMI. I know that the home version lets you make adjustments, and SWAMI would give me more food total if I adjusted it. But the food lists would not change.

  I think you use apply common sense to your SWAMI report. If you need more fat than SWAMI gives you, then eat more fat. I would suggest counting butter and ghee as "fats and oils" rather than "dairy" and double the reccomended fat portions. Then you can adjust that up or down as you see how your body reacts to it.

As far as I'm concerned,there's only one advantage to ghee being in the "butter" category. I can completely cut all cheeses out of my diet, but continue to eat ghee, and not feel like I'm "cutting a whole food group of of my diet". You don't need to cut out that small amount of daily cheese if that's working for you.



I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does,veggies are more than i can eat too,i think i will be able to eat all of them when i will start training again,will make green smoothies and will make meat into burgers to eat before training.

From what you write,i get the impression swami can show different servings according to  how you run it?


"Enjoy life and smile"
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Mother
Monday, August 15, 2016, 6:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Yes Irene, you can chose smaller meals less frequent, larger meals more often etc. it just down sizes portions but doesn't change food values.

I too cannot eat as much protein as recommended and I need probably 3x the fat. I choose to get most of my fats from mono/ plant fats and fish like tuna and salmon. I do eat beef and lamb in small amounts but trim my lamb chops of visible fat. I like lean steak but also a gf burger.

I don't give a second thought to the quantity of fat I eat. That's what satiates me most.


56% hunter secretor
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Patty H
Monday, August 15, 2016, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,558
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 58
Quoted from Irene


I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does,veggies are more than i can eat too,i think i will be able to eat all of them when i will start training again,will make green smoothies and will make meat into burgers to eat before training.

From what you write,i get the impression swami can show different servings according to  how you run it?


Yes, you can set your SWAMI to give you lower food portions.  That's how my SWAMI is set, both my SWAMI-Pro and my SWAMI XP.

Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.  The right kind of fats and oils are anti-inflammatory by nature.  Given that you are from Greece, I imagine you have amazingly good olive oil at your disposal.  It's one of the best foods an O can consume!  


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san j
Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 4:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
Quoted from Irene
Quoted from Patty H
Ghee and butter, particularly ghee (clarified butter), would be much more healthy to consume than daily cheese...Ghee is an Ayurvedic superfood, anti-inflammatory, has many health benefits and very healing to the gut, whereas cheese is inflammatory.  I know you love your cheese, but ghee is a far superior choice for healing and weight loss.  They are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to health and wellness as a food.
I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does
Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.
[emphases mine]

It's important to recognize that we are individuals.

Between O Genotypes,
(1) Hunter is considered "reactive", having to watch inflammation, while Gatherer is considered "thrifty", having a metabolic basis to survival, responding "to scarcity by slowing down their metabolisms"; while Inflammation is indeed a major concern for the Hunter and Explorer, Gatherers have different concerns.

(2) As for ghee and butter being "much more healthy", and ghee "a far superior choice for healing and weight loss" (for Gatherers too), Dr. D'Adamo differs (in The Genotype Diet), rating:
Butter as a Hunter Superfood but only a Gatherer Neutral
Ghee as a Hunter Diamond (weightloss) Superfood but a Gatherer Superfood (no Diamond/weightloss)
Hunters with NO Diamond (weightloss) cheeses, but Gatherers with four of them!

I don't know why Hunter-appropriate corrections are being delivered to a Gatherer here, but they are.  


D'Adamo proponent since 1997
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Patty H
Tuesday, August 16, 2016, 11:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Age: 58
Quoted from Patty H
Quoted from Irene
I get more energy from eating the right cheeses than by eating meat,it is like a complete meal to me.
Animal protein servings and portions are more than i can eat now,but i know it's like this because rest of food categories don't make me loose weight,meat does
Maybe it's the fat in the cheese that is giving you the energy instead of the cheese itself.  I think that's why some of us are recommending upping your fats and lowering your dairy.  The fats are more healthy and will satiate you without the risk of developing inflammation from the cheese.

The real issue with inflammation is that it builds up over time but you generally will not know you have it.  The hallmark of O's is that they develop inflammation.  Inflammation is the root cause of all diseases.
[emphases mine]

Quoted from san j
It's important to recognize that we are individuals.

Between O Genotypes,
(1) Hunter is considered "reactive", having to watch inflammation, while Gatherer is considered "thrifty", having a metabolic basis to survival, responding "to scarcity by slowing down their metabolisms"; while Inflammation is indeed a major concern for the Hunter and Explorer, Gatherers have different concerns.

(2) As for ghee and butter being "much more healthy", and ghee "a far superior choice for healing and weight loss" (for Gatherers too), Dr. D'Adamo differs (in The Genotype Diet), rating:
Butter as a Hunter Superfood but only a Gatherer Neutral
Ghee as a Hunter Diamond (weightloss) Superfood but a Gatherer Superfood (no Diamond/weightloss)
Hunters with NO Diamond (weightloss) cheeses, but Gatherers with four of them!

I don't know why Hunter-appropriate corrections are being delivered to a Gatherer here, but they are.  


Irene has a personal SWAMI and is not following the book, Sanj, so unless she shares the ratings of those foods on her SWAMI, we have no idea how they rate.  I'm not sure why you are offering advice based on the book when she's not following the book  

Regarding your quoting the ratings of foods from the book, I have two diamond cheeses on my SWAMI Pro and butter and ghee are only superfoods, so again, quoting the book is inaccurate.

Irene's question is about not having enough fat in her diet and she has been limiting her daily fats so that she can eat cheese daily.  If you read some of my earlier posts, you will see that I acknowledge the different genotypes.

Any GenoType can deal with chronic inflammation when not eating healthy, anti-inflammatory foods such as healthy fats in the form of olive oil, nuts, seeds, ghee, etc.  I have enough heart disease in my own family to have observed this first hand.  It's the A's who seem to have heart attacks whereas the O's seem to need bypass surgery without the heart attacks.  There are certainly no Hunters among those A's.  Chronic inflammation is the root cause of ALL major disease.  Saying it is only Hunters who experience it is not true.  It certainly is a hallmark of Hunters but anyone, regardless of blood type and genotype can develop inflammation.


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Revision History (3 edits)
C_Sharp  -  Tuesday, August 23, 2016, 4:26am
Another try at correcting quote attribution
Lloyd  -  Sunday, August 21, 2016, 11:04pm
Lloyd  -  Sunday, August 21, 2016, 11:02pm
corrected quote attribution (post #44)
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56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,327
Gender: Female
Location: wisconsin
Age: 52
What you post San j does not apply to my SWAMI.
I have 4 diamond cheeses, 2 super and butter and ghee are both super, not diamonds. Though I may be able to digest those cheeses it packs pounds on fast and causes inflammation. So not super or diamond to me. I can't believe you've 'followed' BT this long and still don't have a SWAMI. Maybe you would understand the different ratings if you had one.


56% hunter secretor
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    SWAMI Xpress  ›  Help!  Gatherer fat portions!

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