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Man Boobs  This thread currently has 1,439 views. Print Print Thread
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Jumari
Monday, November 23, 2009, 8:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami 37% Explorer RH -
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Posts: 206
Gender: Male
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 50
There is nothing that makes me laugh harder than Man Boobs...

So in turn there is nothing I would dread more than Man Boobs...

My partner told me a couple of days ago that she read somewhere that Soy milk has a lot of Estrogen and can cause Man Boobs....

Is this true??????????

I drink soy quite a bit...I have, let us say, a good potential for growing MB.

Any suggestions on how to avoid this happening?
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Possum
Monday, November 23, 2009, 9:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I have heard that soy can do that  too... as can chicken... both from hormones.. Only way that I can think to avoid this, is to avoid using both those things Someone else may know more tho'
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Cristina
Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,548
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Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 62
For that to happen, Soy would have to affect your reproductive hormones, that may, or may not be true for some people, but in this path, we know it not to be true for those genotype bloodgroups where consumption of soy products is rated as highly beneficial.

But, if Dr D's studies and conclusions on rating Soy products for some genotypes  (male or female) as highly beneficial is not in itself assurance enough, we can refer to some other independent feedback on the subject.  Check the results from this US government Public Med website (U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health).  Conclusion quoted:

Quoted Text
CONCLUSION(S): The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu.....Sum&ordinalpos=6

Linked from this website:
http://www.thatsfit.com/2009/11/03/jeremy-piven-blames-soy-milk-for-his-man-boobs/  





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Cristina
Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,548
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Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 62
Also, in browsing around on the internet I came across a lot of contradictive information on the subject, not only relating to Soy but also Flaxseeds, and for both men and women issues.

Something that caught my attention is the body builders reputation of using flaxseeds to balance their hormonal activity sent out of wack by consumpsion of steroids.

I listen to a chat forum where soy consuming men were seeking advice on avoiding Moobs the natural way.  

Quoted Text
Eat more flax seeds. The lignands in flax seed are anti-estrogenic with effects comparable to Tamoxifen in clinical trials - this anti-estrogenic property leads to interesting effects when it comes to fat loss. Steroid-abusing bodybuilders with full-blown gyno have managed to get rid of theirs just by including flax seed in their diet. Fresh ground for preference. ..flax seed, and maybe some zink supplement will optimize your hormonal environment and persuade your body to release the stubborn fat mediated by the estrogen-sensitive betareceptors in your moobs. The lignands in the flax will block those receptor sites, making the stubborn estrogen-sensitive fat more amenable to being burned (this works for hips and love handles too, btw.)


This advice may or may not be effective for everyone, for starters it lacks the insight we acquired while in this path: the person giving the advice forgot to ask the person seeking help about his blood group.

Something else I came across searching the net is the talk about eating things in moderation and include variety in the diet.  Now, where have we heard that before?  references to portion sizes, frequencies, beneficial, superfoods, diamonds listed under all foodgroups ...  

Dr D, at least for us As particularly Warrior and Teacher genotypes, have both soy and Flaxseed in the vegetable proteins as SF or diamonds, which are meant to act as medicine for us  

Thanks for posting this question because in as much as you are concerned about the effect on men, women may also be drag under the missinformed histeria ruling cyberspace and be unnecessarily delayed in our journey to optimal health.

Ahhh... it is such a relief to know somebody else has done all this research for us and now we can enjoy its application in our lives, as long as we employ diligence when doing it, we can relax, enjoy this journey and trust we are in good hands.  




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Lola
Monday, November 23, 2009, 4:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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your BT is key when reading any kind of nutritional one size fit all bashing......

if soy is in your list, make sure you stick to the recommended frequency values.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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diffy
Monday, November 23, 2009, 7:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My ex-hubby had boobs and was quite embarrassed by them..then when our son entered puberty I realized he's developing boobs as well. I asked my ND about it and she advised my son to take 'testralin' by Metagenics. She explained that it turns the excess estrogen into testosterone, or something like it. My son took it for a while; it is now a few years later and thank G-d he is FLAT chested...


GT2 Gatherer
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Eric
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 12:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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From "Live Right for Your Type"


Many Type As and Type ABs have expressed concern about soy products after reading warnings that soy products may be protease inhibitors--that is, they inhibit the enzyme secreted by the pancreas that facilitates protein digestion. Let's dispel this myth once an d for all. It is true that soy contains a protease inhibitor, named Bowman-Bird Soy Protease Inhibitor (BBI). However, BBI, far from being of harm to Type As and Type ABs, is actually a very good friend. Here's why:

-BBI protease inhibitor from soy has well-recognized anti-carcinogenic properties.

-BBI protease inhibitor from soy is a significant inhibitor of Human Leucocyte Elastase (HLE), an enzyme that dissolves the protein elastin and also degrades and inactivates a number of plasma proteins. Elastase probably plays a physiological function in neutrophil migration, phagocytosis, and tissue remodeling. HLE apparently plays a pathological role in pulmonary emphysema, rheumatoid arthritis, endometriosis, infections, and inflammation.

Thus type As and Type ABS on soy-based diets can look forward to having lower levels of inflammation, allergy, cancer, and infection- thanks to this "poison" in soy. Another beneficial effect of soy with special importance to Type A is the ability of the phytochemical genestein to block the effects of the enzyme aromatase. Aromatase in an enzyme that produces estrogen and other steroids. Aromatase is located in estrogen-producing cells of the body. Many estrogen-positive cancers are inhibited by blocking this enzyme. Aromatase inhibitors are increasingly the drug of choice for managing metastic breast cancers that have retained estrogen sensitivity. Other aromatase inhibitors include high-lignan flaxseed oil and the flavones Apigenin (found in chamomile) and Chrysin (found in passion flower).

References:

Wan X. S., Lu L. J., Anderson K.E., Kennedy A.R. "Urinary excretion of Bowman-Birk inhibitor in humans after soy consumption as determined by a monoclonal antibody-based immunoassay."
Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev., Jul 2000; 9(7): 741-7.

Clawson, G.A. "Protease inhibitors and carcinogenesis: A review."
Cancer INvest, 1996; 14(6): 597-608.


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Cristina
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
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From our own Newsletter Vol 1 Issue 4, July 2009
Is There a Dark Side to Soy?
By George R. Savastio, ND
http://www.dadamoinstitute.com/Summernewsletter2009.pdf


AROMATASE INHIBITORS AND ESTROGEN DOMINANCE
by Peter D'Adamo, N.D.
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/arindom.html





Revision History (2 edits)
Cristina  -  Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:56am
Cristina  -  Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:56am
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mikeo
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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if you have man boobs there is always the "bro" or the "manzier"


RHN MIfHI
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Egal
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from mikeo
if you have man boobs there is always the "bro" or the "manzier"


Sorry mate, dont get it, is this canadian local humour I am missing? What are bro or manzier?  



Sunshine Coast, QLD
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Lola
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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sounds like bras for men!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Jumari
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 10:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami 37% Explorer RH -
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Luckily the bro and the manzier are a long way away for me still.

Thanks for the tips and the research everyone....

Soy milk is a neutral for me, and I only use it as a milk substitute...

Chicken too is a neutral, and would have a large quantity of hormones...

I know organic is best but not always easily available when eating out..

Thanks again
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DoS
Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I assume endomorphic people are liking to have them just due to sloppy body functions from a bad diet. Aside from that anyone with heavy candida seems to have little to no muscle and a little extra fat that seems to stick out a bit, but maybe not enough for the "bro".

Although I see lots of guys with pecs and I do not count them as man boobs, and I assume no one here does.

Soy being horrible for a lot of people could lead to candida infections or just a body with no muscle and weight gain. Essentially unless you are a Teacher or Warrior it has that threat when it populates too much of a diet.
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paul clucas
Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 3:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami-fied Explorer! INTP
Kyosha Nim
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The hormone issue with Man Boobs is likely to be xeno-estrogens as well as being over weight.

I've got them now.  They were worse when over 20 years ago, when I peaked at a lower "maximum" weight.  Eating better quality meat is the key to the difference I have experienced when I am "maxed out".  I eat much more fish now as well.

I can't be too sensitive about my MBs because the mound of my abdominal flab hides them!  

Quoted from Egal
Sorry mate, dont get it, is this canadian local humour I am missing? What are bro or manzier?
Probably form fitting undershirts that function like a "hide'em" bra, Arti.  Don't know for sure since I have never tried to find out.  At the very least, wearing tight clothing is not recommended in traditional eastern medicine, as it stops the flow of energy.  Wearing bras that are too tight for too long actually kill a few women every year.  

You could use an EMS machine to "target exercise" the pectoral muscles - but that is risky.  Putting an electric current so close to your heart muscle is not advisable.  My general rule is that you do not put any pad over your rib cage.  If you are really intent on isolated pectoral exercise, going to a "spa" that offers an EMS therapy service with an experienced person to control the EMS session would keep the risk to a minimum.


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.
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SoulfulLori
Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Mikeo...love Seinfeld...everything relates to Seinfeld.
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shoulderblade
Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh -
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Egal


Sorry mate, dont get it, is this canadian local humour I am missing? What are bro or manzier?  



Same here but I am a Canadian. Explain if you please.






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Squirrel
Thursday, November 26, 2009, 1:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

ex-Gatherer, ex-SWAMI - plain old O-nonnie
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I had to google them too, but I think I've got the idea now! Bras for men, right? The terms manziere (from brassiere) and bro (from bra) were coined on Seinfeld when they were trying to invent a man-bra and couldn't decide on a name. There's also the brozeer which seems to be used by transvestites.

Wow, the things you learn on the net. And I only logged on for a recipe for noodle seasoning...


Note to self: I am me, and also an O-nonnie - I'm allowed not to fit the mould.
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Symbi
Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Squirrel  

Don't worry Jumari, they aren't allowed to add hormones to chicken in Australia.  We have the best meat here!  Non-free-range, however, may have antibiotics but that's another story.  Check this link out, unless you're chicken http://www.chicken.org.au/files/_system/Document/FAQ.pdf  

Didn't know this for sure, but most blokes I've seen with man boobs like their beer.  Then I found this:

Quoted Text
Just on prolactin quickly, increases of this hormone can lead to the formation of man boobs. This is commonly seen in beer drinkers. Beer is made from hops, which is oestrogenic and excessive beer consumption leads to a rise in prolactin. So drink less beer and take more zinc!
http://www.naturopathy.ie/blog/2007/11/28/mens-health-the-big-issues/  

Does zinc you put on your face at the footy or cricket while you're sucking on a can count?  he he

P.S. nice tips on the second page for male toiletries.  If they can have bro and manziers (I remember seeing Frank Costanza wearing one (shudder) ROFL), why can't men have man bags?


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Paulppaul
Monday, December 21, 2009, 4:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
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Personal experience, yeah, but only perked them up while on soy milk, went down when I got off the juice.  
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paul clucas
Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 12:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami-fied Explorer! INTP
Kyosha Nim
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I am glad that I am taking Zinc.  


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.
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mikeo
Friday, December 25, 2009, 5:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter ESFJ
Kyosha Nim
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push ups are great remedy for man boobs..start slow and work yourself up to 30 push ups a day and watch the boobs turn into plated armor


RHN MIfHI
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Ribbit
Friday, December 25, 2009, 2:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
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I can second everything said about prolactin, beer and increased breast size, being a breastfeeding mother for 7 years.  Ahhhh, prolactin.  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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