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Research on food choices for all  This thread currently has 47,068 views. Print Print Thread
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Symbi
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 2:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Nutritional Facts

There's a good comparison of US Paw Paw to Banana Apple and Orange.  It's superior in Vitamin C, protein, Niacin, Magnesium, Phosphorous, Zinc, Copper, Manganese, high in amino acids too.  
http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/pawpaw/cooking.htm#a2

Here's a basic comparison of some tropical fruits including Cherimoya and Soursop.  You can see that basic nutrition wise they seem very similar except Soursop has more Vitamin C and Fibre and less folate (see per 100 g bottom table) http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/nutrition_facts.htm
From that, I think we can say that Soursop may be given the equivalent rating as Cherimoya or be considered neutral until further testing in GTD / SWAMI.

Unfortunately I couldn't find compatible nutritional information to compare Soursop and Paw paw directly (couldn't find much for paw paw).  Also found varying results and they didn't always reference where the testing was done.
Soursop different data: http://recipes.wikia.com/wiki/Soursop_Nutrient_Chart_-_100_grams and http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2063/2

Comparing Soursop and US Paw Paw.  Soursop was always higher in Vitamin C than Paw Paw, lower in calories, less carbs and fat, less fiber, less vitamin A, more Thiamine, Riboflavin, Niacin, less minerals (Potassium, Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Iron, Zinc, Copper, Manganese).  Amino Acids (lysine similar, less Methionine, more Tryptophan, lacking amino acids of other kinds which Paw Paw has).  So Paw Paw seems to be much richer in amino acids and minerals, an amazing fruit.

Recipees for US Paw Paw

http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/Recipes.htm


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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Symbi  -  Sunday, November 1, 2009, 2:22am
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Symbi
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Conclusion:

I thought that would be all I could find (I didn't read ALL that stuff btw!).  There was no evidence of the different acetogenins or their the differing amounts found in USA Paw Paw and Soursop.  Then I lucked on this website:

Graviola is Inferior to Paw Paw as a Cancer-Fighting Supplement.  Here's Why http://www.pawpawresearch.com/graviola-inferior.htm
Quoted Text
The reported use of graviola as an anti-carcinoma treatment has gone back for decades.  While some people have no doubt seen some success with graviola, it is important to note the differences and understand why it is not even close to an equivalent substance to paw paw when used for this purpose.

Tests were done under the direction of Dr. Jerry McLaughlin on two leading graviola products on the market.  The first one had a cyto-toxic potency level of about 4% of the potency of paw paw--in other words, paw paw had about 24 times the potency of this product.  The second leading graviola product had a potency level of 2% that of paw paw; so paw paw was about 50 times as potent as that product.  These results should be unacceptable to those serious about using a product of this nature to fight cancer.

As will be further explained below, there are two big differences between graviola products and paw paw.  First, and probably most important, is the chemistry structure.  The chemistry structure of the graviola compounds does not allow it to be as potent as that of the paw paw acetogenins.  Second, the manufacturing process of graviola products is inferior in that it is generally consists of grinding powder from leaves, twigs, or other parts of the plant.  With this type of very unsophisticated manufacturing process, the amount of active acetogenins will vary widely by batch, and the amount in any selected bottle is unknown to the consumer.  


From this I think we can say that Soursop cannot be seen as equivalent to US Paw Paw, in our GTD/SWAMI Diets.  US Paw Paw is superior with higher amino acid and mineral content and volume of acetogenins which have proven medicinal purposes including fighting cancer.  
Perhaps Soursop can be considered neutral or the same value as Cherimoya in our GTD/SWAMI diets until further testing.


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Cristina
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 4:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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GW, excellent work!!!

OK, I agree with you regarding Soursop (ie: Graviola, Guanabana)in that according to those publications it is medicinally/nutritionally inferior to  US PawPaw, but, that may or may not mean that its rating for us will be inferior to PawPaw in our food lists.  If there is a range of goodness, this fruit may be up there with the US PawPaws.  Lola may be into something when she said she uses this fruit as a substitute for Paw Paw, I wonder if this is how she arrived to this conclusion.

US PawPaw is not in Typebase.  It would have been interesting to see what the descriptor had to say about this fruit and possible equivalents.

I do not see Soursop or any of its names alternatives, either in Typebase, GT or Swami lists, so to be in the safe side of things, for the time being, I agree with you in placing this fruit in the Non equivalent Summary table to be used as a neutral with great caution, particularly after reading the Contra indications listed in your cancerplants link for soursop.  This will be our official recommendation.

By the time I finished writing this you probably posted a few more researched info on it, which is great.  I will read and study them all with the aim of compiling a nutritional table from your research showing these fruits side by side.  It will then make it easier for us to place them in our diets in the right food groups.  That will be at our own discresion after digesting this information.  We are helping people make educated guesses. But the untested fruits will have to remain in the non-equivalent table until Dr D's team tell us otherwise.

Great work detective  GheeWhiz ...!!!     





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Cristina  -  Sunday, November 1, 2009, 4:24am
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Lola
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cherimoyas and guanabanas are quite similar in fact.

as are all the sapote types, including mamey....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Cristina
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Further on growing US pawpaws here:  I could not get my PawPaw plants the other day because according to the nursery person, the plant is, at the moment, in dormant state.  I should be able to get them by the end of November.  They reckon they are slow producers, he has plants that are 5 years old and still not giving any fruit.  But I have got C-Sharp's sound advice up my sleeve and I reckon I should have them producing a lot sooner.  Of course part of that first crop whenever it happens, will find its way down to Brissiland and Sydney to the home of certain explorers, and Camberra to the home of a certain warrior, and we will invite our furry friend from across the Tasman to join us in the harvest feast of this well researched fruit!! I am not daring to count the number of posts on it!!  Of course we are not forgetting our far away team members, they will at least get the photos of our celebrations!! By then, we would have reached our goals of getting to the ideal weight for me and all of us resetting our genes, so, let s remember this date!!




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Lola
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typebase pawpaw aka papaya was before GTD pawpaw aka cherimoya came about

now we know that papaw is what you use for papaya
and pawpaw is cherimoya or guanabana....apple custard, whatever!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Cristina
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
typebase pawpaw aka papaya was before GTD pawpaw aka cherimoya came about

now we know that papaw is what you use for papaya

Correct!!
Quoted Text
and pawpaw is cherimoya or guanabana....apple custard, whatever!

This is what we are trying to work out.  We have access to these fruits but not the US PAW PAW.  These fruits are all different, cherimoya is different to guanabana, which is different to Custard Apple, ..., they are all member of the same family, but different species.  We have been trying to figure out which is the species that resembles the true US PAW PAW the most.  





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Lola
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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guanabana might just take the lead......unless C sharp can give us a clue...


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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C_Sharp
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Not much clue here. I agree with Ghee Whiz's species identification.

The species/fruit that we do not no about can be added to the list of foods the we would like included in the next SWAMI release. No guarantee they will actually be included in the product.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Symbi
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 6:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks everyone for the feedback.   You're right Cristina and Lola USA Paw Paw is not in Typebase so I corrected that ( I didn't mean to write a !)

I really look forward to tasting some Cristina, that's so nice that you want to share it with everyone.   By the sound of it, with your green thumb growing it shouldn't be a problem (tricky though they sound).  Are you getting the Asimona Triloba or one of the more tropical Asimona's (US Paw Paw)?

Lola - I don't think the Mameys are related, they're not in the same Annonaceae (custard apple) family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamey_sapote.  Do they taste similar?


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

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Lola
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no, I meant those are all related, just like mameys and sapotes are related to themselves as well....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Symbi
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Now I relate!  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Lola
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 6:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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same as we all relate!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Mohairandsilk
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 6:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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what a great work !

Bravo !

... and I like the new title too  
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Cristina
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Welcome!! More french, more french to the list ....




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Cristina
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 7:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Symbi
...  Are you getting the Asimona Triloba ,,, (US Paw Paw)?



Yes, the real thing (Asimina triloba ).  At least that is what I am ordering.  We will see by the end of the month when they deliver.




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Symbi
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 7:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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That's great Cristina!  

Lola - We are family!  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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Cristina
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 7:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cristina
Some more research:

US Paw Paw vs AU Custard Apple,  they are from the same family, PawPaw being the only one in that family that suits temperate climate, the rest in the group including our Custard Apple are adapted to warmer climates.

It seems that they both have similar nutritional values, I am trying to find reliable sources of information, not easy.  So far I found
this website for American PawPaw (check tables 2 and 3 in the article):
http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/pawpaw/cooking.htm

If we could only find a similar table for the Custard Apple, we should get a better idea to see if we could use it in place of PawPaw in the southern part of the world.  This is the best site I could locate for nutritional info on Custard Apples:

http://www.gardenology.org/wiki/Custard-apple

What do you think?

PS:  I find a better one and it is tipping me over to give this fruit the thumps up for PAWPAW substitute here!!

http://www.custardapple.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=54
and here:
http://lifestyle.iloveindia.com/lounge/benefits-of-custard-apple-2171.html


GW, what do you think about these links for nutritional info for Custard Apple.  I posted this a few weeks ago, but did not have time to analyse it further.  There maybe enough info there to compare. Custart Apple seems to be higher in some nutrients but PAWPAW still has a lot more iron and other things.  Working on memory here, I have not even look at it again.  You may make more sense of it ...




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Symbi
Sunday, November 1, 2009, 8:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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They're good links.  Custard Apple seems similar to Soursop and Cherimoya, though they don't list the amino acids.  I saw on your first link: "In Britain Custard-apple refers to cherimoya (Annona cherimola). " Oh no more different names again!  

The Custard Apple Growers assoc, nutritional composition only lists water?  Maybe it's my Firefox not getting on with that page?

Found one website that lists most of the family:
Custard Apple http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1881/2
Soursop http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1881/2
Wow they're got Cherimoya too: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1860/2

I linked to soursop on their website in my research above, and searched for Paw Paw (not there  ), didnt' think to search for the other rellies.  If we join up it's possible to compare two foods or more on that website, pretty cool.  

Hang on, it has Papaya http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1985/2  But is it the USA paw paw?  Just searched the FDA and no http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/measure.pl it's actually our orange fleshed Paw Paw (Carica papaya).  That whole website seems to be based on the FDA: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ it seems.  Could be useful to know!

Will look at it more tomorrow GTG!  


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Quoted from Symbi
I think we have alot of work just to sort out Australian/NZ (thinking of Possum and yes I do like them in my garden and wouldn't have to heart to electrocute them just was upset with the oil spill - exxon valdez incident in our garage!) food though without taking on the whole world yet!  If you can keep up with that, you're good.  

Sick of having the flu here, had it for over a week now.    
Hope you are feeling better soon & thankyou for the mention Did you get some Proberry?? Hope so
and we will invite our furry friend from across the Tasman to join us in the harvest feast of this well researched fruit!! Cute!! Thankyou!! I look forward to it Cristina & to meeting you all one day

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Cristina
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Look where I found Possum hiding, in the middle of these PawPaws, (7th row),  disguissed as OPossum PawPaw:     


http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/pawpaw/table2.htm





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Lola
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Quoted Text
"In Britain Custard-apple refers to cherimoya (Annona cherimola). " Oh no more different names again!


they re all slowly coming together as one, right?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Symbi
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Found this page with pictures of Australian paw paw and papaya!  http://www.australianpapaya.com.au/productInfo.php
    *  Papaw: Distinct yellow flesh and tends to be a larger fruit
    * Papaya: Orange to red flesh and usually a smaller oval or pear shaped fruit



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Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism

Revision History (1 edits)
Symbi  -  Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 12:41am
removed confusion that Cristina corrected - don't want to confuse any1 else!
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Cristina
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That is OK GW, there is so much to take on!!  How I find now easy to identify them is by the seeds inside the fruit:

The US Paw Paw has a few large seeds inside, the Australian Paw Paw and Papaya, both have lots of little seeds inside, but who is counting?




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Jenny
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Quoted from Symbi
Thanks everyone for the feedback.   You're right Cristina and Lola USA Paw Paw is not in Typebase so I corrected that ( I didn't mean to write a !)

I really look forward to tasting some Cristina, that's so nice that you want to share it with everyone.   By the sound of it, with your green thumb growing it shouldn't be a problem (tricky though they sound).  Are you getting the Asimona Triloba or one of the more tropical Asimona's (US Paw Paw)?

Lola - I don't think the Mameys are related, they're not in the same Annonaceae (custard apple) family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamey_sapote.  Do they taste similar?


You know, the odd thing  is that roughly the day before we all started our research on the meaning of the word paw paw, I am dead certain that there were two entries in Typebase, one was for papaya, and the other for paw paw. then bingo, one of them disappeared. Unless I am suffering from dementia which is always possible, but I can even remember that one was a fullsome entry, and the other, much more limited.
So hopefully someone in a dark backroom is doing the research as we speak.



Eating half and exercising double.
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