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Cristina
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 4:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
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Thanks Possum!!

Jenny, I thought you would!!!  I agree with you on the no cover, but out here, I have to, otherwise pesty little insects, even this winter time, can get residence in no time at all!!  If you can use rye flour, nourishing traditions uses that for their starter.  I used organic, white spelt flour which I get from either Woolies, or a wholesaler natural organic shop in 5kg bags!  Rye is black dot for us, so I used Spelt.  According to my process it also took a couple of days before i notice any activity ... But if you say it is bubbling, then it could still be hope ... How many cups of flour have you added already?

Too much heat kills the bacteria, so make sure yogurt maker is not too high ...  Feed them a bit more flour and water and put them somewhere else ... they may have their favorite spot! They seem to like it in my office corner, on top of the filing cabinet behind me ...   no artificial heating in here, just the warm feeling emanating from this forum ...    I must be radiating it to them too  




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Lola
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 4:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Jenny
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 8:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can't alter the temperature on my yoghurt maker, it is fixed at just above blood temp. But this may be too hot. No, it is not really bubbling at all. I only add a tablespoon of flour every day because the container is so small, and I keep the moisture level at about unwhipped cream level.
There is no where else in the house that is consistently warm because overnight we drop to freezing or below, and I don't leave the heater on at night.Perhaps I need to get a pet electric blanket pad!!!
If nothing has happenned by tomorrow, Thursday, which will be about 4 days, I will start again with yoghurt and rye flour. There must be a solution to this, but I have yet to crack it.



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Cristina
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 10:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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4 days without activity, may be a bit too much, I am surprise it has not gone sour?  I suppose the freezing temps may keep the mixture from deteriorating ...  Yes, you need to find a warmish place in the house ... bed side table? with a cosy wooly cover on top, like you get for traditional tea pots?      You'll figure it out ... crafty warrior and all ...   ... the battle is on and those creatures do not know what is coming to them if they do not start working soon!!

BTW, my long loaves produced about 32 slices of bread each, the one from the breadmaker about 14, so I have been slicing them and bagging them in batches of 4, 6 or 8, before they get too dry and crumby!!  I should have done it early this morning but, we had trades people setting up the concrete slabs for our new sheds.  Lots of activity here, hoping it will not rain tomorrow so they can pour the concrete!!!


Do you like the cute shoe shaped ones ?




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Lola
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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very professional looking!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Thanks Lola!!  I really enjoyed the whole process!!  I will not need to bake bread again for a while now, but next time I will reduce quantities accordingly, just to make enough for a loaf a week or every second week.  




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Jenny
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 10:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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what temperature would you say is optimal? (ie what I have been doing in my freezing climate is having the yoghurt maker on 24 hours at a warm temp which as I said is hotter than blood temp)
Next to my bed would drop to maybe 8-10 degrees Centigrade overnight.
thanks for the vote of confidence Cristina.Yes I am battling on, but don't know how long my patience will last!!!



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Cristina
Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 11:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Jenny, my ambient temp here is about 12 (considered freezing), mostly around 16C in winter, it escalates to mid twenties in summer.  So, it seems my battleground is in my favor here!     

Have you considered crock pot or slow cooker, it will not help during the night, where the babies will go into dormant mode, but if you wrap them well then, and then during the day use the top of a crok pot on very slow, with a few plates in between the lid and your babies, well covered, it may help ...  

or even on a plate on top of the yogurt maker without the lid (the plate holding the jar with the babies become the yogurt maker lid?  

just throwing ideas, you will get to the solution soon11




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Symbi
Thursday, June 17, 2010, 8:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Jenny, some more warm places I know from making yogurt without a yogurt maker:

Next or on top of your hot water system,
in the oven with the pilot light on
put glad wrap over the top sometimes might hold any heat in
armpits ha ha

On another thread recently re: probiotics Lola had the brilliant idea of using a blood type specific probiotic to start your own homemade yogurt.  Probably a very healthy for you sourdough could be started the same way.  Lola's idea

Great loaves there Cristina, they look delicious.  Recently made the best spelt loaf so far (with yeast) and made sure it was sticky (previously I've been adding more flour to stop it sticking to my fingers and everything and they had been too dry).  Are you sure that spelt can be kneaded that long? I thought kneading has to be at a minimum to prevent the gluten being stretched too far and falling in again (though I love to do it too! - great for the heads and the head)

Did you make your loaves with just white spelt?  I've been mixing half and half wholemeal and white and love the flavor and the lightness that you get from both.  Got a bulk pack of wholemeal spelt and it's lasting a long time along with the packets of white spelt from woolies (yeh glad they have it eh).  The sweet taste of spelt is so nice!  Put some nutmeg, herbs in and some ghia seeds ontop of my last loaf.  Little additives change the flavor dramatically.

Made pizzas this week with spelt too but they didn't rise so well as it was about 15 (freezing for brizzie) was lovely anyway.  When I was rising the bread it also took longer as drafts stop it rising.  So had to put it in the oven on the lowest temp possible (for rising).


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Cristina
Thursday, June 17, 2010, 8:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Just a quickie  Symbi because the family is getting ready to watch Avatar on box office and I have not booked it yet!!

Yes, I kneaded it it for about 20 minutes manually and the one on the machine got another beating with the machine, forgot how long for!! So, figure that one out!!!  My bread did not fall down as you can see by the pictures.  I have also heard about the gluten thing and kneading too much but of course, I did not remember it then!!!!  

yes, i only use white Spelt flour, only because I wanted to make sure about this process first, then I will experiment with combinations and flavours later...  Your suggestions sound very yummy!!

Come back later ...  

PS: the gluten thing, is it that if you knead too much it makes the bread crumbier?  too dry?  I noticed mine had the perfect consistency on the first day, not as moist and dense as  other sour breads I have seen or cooked before, but nice and lighter.  It did not crumbed down when I sliced the bread the next day either ...  Maybe because I used white Spelt flour only. ..

Next time I will bypass the machine extra kneading and see if I get same result with the machine baking.  I do not think I will knead for less than 20 minutes manually for any of the loaves, they have to be kneaded until you get that elastic, silky soft texture ... I got my kneading worked out, got the skills from grandma, grew next to her making home made bread and  baking it in the clay wood ash oven outside, every Sunday, for the whole week ...





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Cristina  -  Thursday, June 17, 2010, 9:25am
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Cristina
Thursday, June 17, 2010, 8:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Age: 62
I have not posted my progress for a few days now, but it has been very good! Keeping compliance up, oral routine consistent, mixed a couple of days walking, but not being a couch potato, kept active and busy with other things around the house.

Home kits and supps did arrive!!
Interesting thing with our DGS!! Follow kits instructions, soak his finger in warm water, prick his finger and no blood!! had to squeeze his poor little finger really hard for his blood to drop at all!! Talking about thick and clotting!! Got just enough to smudge the circles on the card and he came a clear Anegative like his dad and my GD!!

Started my yogurt making again!  I did not have Lola's hint on using the Polyflora to create your own blood type yogurt!!  I am starting a new one today with a couple of capsules from my polyflora which it seems, arrived just in time for this!!

Doing the OP now and ready for a walk down the beach!! Seems very cloudy and gloomy outside though, hope weather holds for us long enough for Zuri to have a few runs!! Been a couple of days since we took her there!!  




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Jenny
Thursday, June 17, 2010, 9:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Symbi, you are so cute..
have done the yoghurt maker to death, will try the pilot light today.
Love Lola's idea of the probiotic..what lateral thinking!!!
My spelt loaf (yeast based) collapsed yesterday in the bread machine..I think the mixture was too moist, but it still cuts up nicely, and tastes as good as ever.
Must away to another day of activity and scientific work with the bacteria.
It would be good to have a precis of Cristina's discoveries for simple application for  beginners in the sour dough arena...I know its all there in the messages, but just one final summary would be great if you don't mind pal?  



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Cristina
Thursday, June 17, 2010, 11:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
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Sure Jenny, I thought about it,  will work on one today, now that the youngsters are all out for most of the day (holidays here today: show day!! - have you had yours yet?).

I will do the summary, we all try the process a few times ( different people) and then post it in recipe central.  BTW I also find some of the book instructions a bit cryptic or too assuming, ending up doing things totally different to what is intended ...  Good in these forums, we can keep checking on each other ... I love your feedbacks, I learnt so much from hearing you all saying things and from reading countless books ...  




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Cristina
Friday, June 18, 2010, 12:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,548
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Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 62
Polyflora yogurt project:

Ingredients:
1 cup bonsoy milk (too impatient to wait for my beans to be ready to milk!!)
1 capsule Polyflora (for your type)
1 stainless steel saucepan (just big enough to warm the cup of milk)
1 yogurt maker (or any other device you have to keep the mixture warm)
1 glass jar big enough to hold your milk and place in yogurt maker.  I do not like using the plastic container the yogurt maker came with. I gave those to my DGD to play. I much rather use recycle glass jars!
1 small glass or ceramic bowl to act as the 'lid' for the glass jar inside the yogurt maker

The Process:
    The first 4 dot points indicate how I sterilize my glass jar using microwave.  You can substitute with your own sterilizing method (pressure cooker, boiling, etc).  The rest of the instructions indicate how I start the process of yogurt making using yogurt maker
  • Select glass jar where to make yogurt (I recycle one of those big mayonnaise jars I used to get )
  • Fill jar with water to about half an inch (2cms) from the top
  • Place jar in microwave and nuke for 5 minutes at full power
  • Let it cool down for a few more minutes while preparing milk and then discard water

  • warm milk in saucepan to just below boiling point (just when bubbles start forming on the side)
  • Place warm milk in warm steriled glass jar
  • Place glass jar inside yogurt maker to cool down to just above blood temperature
    Use sterile spoon to test some milk on your skin to check the temp if you do not have a thermometer.  The drops of milk should feel just lukewarm on your skin.
  • Once the milk has cooled down enough, brake contents of Polyflora capsule into the milk
  • Stir in lightly by shaking the jar, do not use spoon.  
  • Close and set yogurt maker to desired length of time, I start with 4 hours
  • Let it rest undisturbed for required period of time
  • Place resulting yogurt in fridge as soon as you can to thicken ...


Unfortunately I do not have any cows or goats milk at home to also test this procedure.  I may buy half a litre tomorrow just for this purpose.
Since I am starting this project at 10pm (while watching world cup soccer with hubby), the yogurt will be sitting longer than required before placing it into the fridge.  Will report in the morning about the results of this experiment ...

Thanks Lola for the inspirations ...  





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Cristina
Friday, June 18, 2010, 1:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Age: 62
BTW, if the experiment above works using soy milk, for sure it will work with any other animal base milk, or plant base milk ...

I intend to use this yogurt to start another batch of fermented bread culture tomorrow morning ...  this time will be true to type culture ... Might do it behind the scenes though and just report here at the end only ... ??

mmmm, all this got me thinking now, if my O, B or AB friends come to visit, they will be required to send me a couple of their respective Polyfloras so I can bake their true to type bread!!!  It will certainly raise a few eyebrows in the post if they happen to notice all these pills popping around the place ...




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Lola
Friday, June 18, 2010, 3:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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sounds very scientific to me!!!
it works with all grain, nut, seed, whatever milk
just make it home made!!!
I don t trust anything processed!!!lol

even the critters don t like those!!!

Quoted Text
Stir in lightly by shaking the jar, do not use spoon

I used a thin wooden chop stick to mix......no problem


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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Lola  -  Friday, June 18, 2010, 3:49pm
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Lola
Friday, June 18, 2010, 3:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Christina by the way, about the soccer.....
we get to play together!!!!

may the best win!!! lol

add the fermenting of veggies and all to your science project!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
Saturday, June 19, 2010, 4:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,548
Gender: Female
Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 62
Polyflora yogurt project
Progress report 1:

Checked status of mixture at 4sh this morning: too liquid, if any activity, it did  not show it at all.  So, I added another two Polyflora capsules (remember it is all experimenting still).   Set the yogurt for another 5 hours planning to re-check after completing a few chores this morning like shopping for raw milk and more spelt flour!!!  Grrrrr!! Spelt grains are not available here yet!!!  May have to source them from down south!!!

It is now noon and I am happy to report that I have now a wonderful cup of 'True to type A' Soy yogurt sitting in my fridge!!!  

Colour: sort of creamy, like normal full cream soy milk
Consistency: creamy, like thick custard type of mixture
Texture: silky, soft
Taste: kind of sweet hint, with sharp tingle (like garlicky sharp) ...

Taster hubby: I like it, tastes sweetish, I will eat it
taster DD: nope, I would not eat it, I did like the one you (meaning me) served this morning (yogurt I made based on commercial yogurt and cow milk)
Taster me: I will happily have it on my homemade granola any time!!

Conclusion: As Lola already told us, the system works.  Now I have an idea of quantities, I will continue making my true to type yogurt using for the time being raw cow milk, at least until I get around to doing my own soy milk again.

I will use the cup I just made of Type A soy base yogurt to create a Type A fermented bread starter, at the latest this evening ...

The fermented bread batch I made earlier (page 16), is disappearing very fast.  I think it gets better and tastier as it gets older, sort of like all of us here !!!   Can't help it to love this journey ...





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Cristina
Saturday, June 19, 2010, 4:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Age: 62
Quoted from Lola
Christina by the way, about the soccer.....
we get to play together!!!!

may the best win!!! lol

add the fermenting of veggies and all to your science project!!


Well done to both to get it to this position to fight for number one in the group!!! Sure we both will make it through!!

Thanks for the encouragement with this kitchen science project!! Keep on going while on a roll, as they say ...

Once I make a batch of yogurt, I will continue using some of it to make some more, and every now and then I will add the odd Polyflora to 'boost' the good creatures up!!  Sounds like a deal?  

I am actually feeling a bit spoiled today!!  We bought us a dehidrator!!  My mind is racing with all the things we will now be able to do!!  Like I was just then drying my latest batch of almonds, walnuts and peanuts, all soaked for over 24 hrs!!

PS: and tonight is Australia playing!!!  Had a little rest this afternoon in anticipation!!!





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Cristina  -  Saturday, June 19, 2010, 6:10am
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Chloe
Saturday, June 19, 2010, 4:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cristina, I just wanted to tell you how much I love what you're doing...all these science projects
with foods and sharing them here.  So great to read this thread!  Thanks

Question.  Could I use homemade almond milk and make yogurt with the Polyflora?

Must I go buy a yogurt maker? (I can do that if this makes it easier)

And what did you determine is the proper ratio of milk to Polyflora capsules?


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Cristina
Saturday, June 19, 2010, 4:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,548
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Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 62
Thanks Chloe, I appreciate your feedback.

I have not tried any other milks yet,  I soon will and post my results, but according to Lola, yes, you can use different milks.  It makes sense to me too.

Regarding the ratio, so far has been trial and error: I started with one polyflora tablet, as you can see in my descriptions here, but, at least given my conditions, it was not enough, so I added a couple more and it worked!  You may find out it is enough with just one or two ... Like I did, start at the lower end and add more if needed.

I think that with culture mixtures like yogurt,  it all has to do with your ambient conditions, so results may vary, take everything just as a guide rather than gospel.

I used yogurt maker for convenience: set time and forget.  It is also airtight and will keep constant desired temp for me.  But, until recently I used to have a jar immerses in hot water in an ski.  Also in the past, particularly in summer, just used to sit the yogurt mixture on a warm place in a corner in my kitchen.  Again, play with whatever resources you have.  Nice, cosy warm in an bigger airtight container is best for yogurt making, I think ...

Again, thanks for visiting, it encourages me to keep on going ...    




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Can't wait to try this.

Prior to getting my SWAMI, I had never even made cultured vegetables...And just recently made
almond milk from scratch....And never made yogurt.  The fact that dairy yogurt is an avoid on
my SWAMI, I need to find alternative milks.

It's warm outside right now...but house has central A/C going, so I think by your yogurt experience that the goal is to keep the temperature constant once you've added the Polyflora...I'm wondering if it's going to get warm enough outside to culture the yogurt...or possibly too warm...

Is there an ideal temperature required to make yogurt??

Can't do this today...too late already and have to make more almond milk first.  But this is
so exciting to think that I could wind up with my own customized yogurt..




"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lola
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Sa Bon Nim
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there s nothing to loose!
good luck!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
Sunday, June 20, 2010, 4:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Age: 62
Quoted Text
Conclusion: As Lola already told us, the system works.  Now I have an idea of quantities, I will continue making my true to type yogurt using for the time being raw cow milk, at least until I get around to doing my own soy milk again.


Well, that did not work!!  Either I heated up the milk too much and killed whatever the creatures need from it to make the yogurt or the creatures did not like the raw cow milk (being A type probiotics!! Lola, you mentioned something earlier about the creatures not liking anything processed, does that apply too in regards to anything not good for type As, like cow milk, no matter how raw it is??!!

I will start again!!  Glad I am only just using a couple of cups of milk and nobody in the house is missing them (being an A household), well, they shouldnt anyway!!!  

PS:  CORRECTION!!!!  YES!!! it did work!!  I took the jar of the yogurt maker with the intention of throwing it away, but then I noticed some sort of viscosity at the bottom.  I decided to add another Polyflora and put it back in the yogurt maker for another 3 hours.  Had dinner, went to bed for a nap, got up again to start the new batch and surprise! The yogurt was formed! May be we need 4 polyfloras for 2 cups of milk? Maybe this bacteria likes to take its time and needs 8 hrs to incubate rather than the usual 5??  Whatever it is, I am not complaining and accept the success and the learnings that come with it!!





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GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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try again


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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