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Maineac Gettin' Toooo Excited  This thread currently has 2,124 views. Print Print Thread
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neraddan
Saturday, November 5, 2005, 10:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I've posted in a couple of other threads about how happy I am to be on the BTD. The increased energy just feeds into every area of my life. I am continually amazed at how early I wake up and how rested I am, improved mental clarity, focus, how many new ideas I've had for fabric art projects, I'm singing again, playing music all day long and harmonizing like crazy, and just how darned good I feel.

Now, the real surprise to me is attitude. I screwed up rather finely at work a week ago ( one darned typo took 31 hours to fix!). But, as I worked through the day and night to fix the mess I'd created, not ONCE did I kick myself for doing something stupid, dumb, etc. No negative head talk at all. Let me tell you - prior to starting BTD I would have spent a lot of that day kicking myself for my incompetence. But with my new BTD attitude, I laughed a lot about such a silly mistake.

A further example of attitude change for the better. I own and ride a horse. I started riding as an adult and have struggled with confidence issues forever. My fellow isn't dangerous at all, but does have a lovely duck and spin move when he's startled. Doesn't usually throw me, but it unsettles me. Now, prior to BTD there would be days that nothing would get me on my horse's back - just an irrational, fetal, can't explain it, can't therapy my way out of it fear of riding. (not fear of the horse, but the what if, completely irrational numbing can't do it miasma). Especially when I needed to ride alone, which, since I live alone, I have to do frequently.

After being on BTD for almost 4 weeks. The irrational, can't explain it, can't talk myself out of it, can't ride fear is GONE. Completely GONE. I am speechless about this development. It's incredible. This mental weight that I've been dragging around for years is gone.

Has anyone else experienced a change like this? Am I nuts? If so, I'll stay nuts, ok!

I'm on my knees singing the BTD praises. Bursting out of my skin I feel so alive again!

Kate in Maine

Revision History (2 edits)
taswolf  -  Sunday, January 1, 2006, 7:25pm
Changed capitals in title
taswolf  -  Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:45am
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ISA-MANUELA
Saturday, November 5, 2005, 10:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Kate... congrats to you.... go...go..go..go..gooooooooooooo super
you'll be  re-adapted to your true nature...
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MissileCop
Saturday, November 5, 2005, 11:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Sam Dan
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 406
Location: The Tiny State of New Hampshire
Of course you're nuts, you're from Maine!! Everybody up there is nuts. It's how you all survive the long winters.

Mind you, I can't say much......

<------------------- I live next door. But folks here already know I'm cwazy!

Awesome change for the better. I had some similar experiences when I started at the beginning of this year. No more depression, no more being tired all the time, no more looking at the world with such negativity. It's a beautiful thing.

Now with all this energy, I can run around terrorizing the folks here. Isa, Edna, Poly, and now Kristin's getting the brunt of it. Such a lucky girl!

So, the next time I look north, and see what I think are the Northern Lights, I'll be wrong. It'll be the shine from that big ol' grin on your face!

31 hours to fix one typo? Wow, I knew Mainers were behind the times, but they have this really neat modern invention called White-Out. Come across the border sometime, I'll hook you up with 21st century technology!

All right, I gotta quit. And just imagine, this is me with NO caffeine! That, and you live close enough that you can strike back! *chuckle*

Thanks for sharing. It brightens a lot of peoples days here, to hear such awesome stories!



The most important letter in the alphabet is the letter L.  
Without it, we would not experience the most important qualities of our existence; Living, Loving, Learning, Laughing.

MC- One vertically challenged guy, trying to become a muscle-bound Oompa-Loompa.  
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neraddan
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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*Taps MissileCop on the shoulder and jumps to the other one*

Ha!  One typo in a job that loads data and shortened the contract id by 2 bytes... ain't no white out in the WORLD gonna fix that oops.  Oh well.  What doesn't kill makes us stronger!

Ohyessirreesir, I will be a light beam generatin' fool  - wait - that's not will be it's AM!

New Hampshire eh.  Whereabouts?

Kate (2 horses, 5 cats) in Auburn

OOPS - this shoulda gone as a reply in my Maineiac thread...
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Lola
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 58
kate,
your happiness is contagious!!!!

wonderful results! good for you!

your horse is one happy fellow now!!  what s his name?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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MissileCop
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Sam Dan
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 406
Location: The Tiny State of New Hampshire
*snicker*  Got you all discombobulated!!  At least I replied in the right thread!  

Ohhhh...I'm in trouble, I can just FEEL it!

I'm in Concord.  *heads to MapQuest to find out where Auburn is*


The most important letter in the alphabet is the letter L.  
Without it, we would not experience the most important qualities of our existence; Living, Loving, Learning, Laughing.

MC- One vertically challenged guy, trying to become a muscle-bound Oompa-Loompa.  
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Lola
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,338
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 58
I can only imagine what Dr D goes through, correcting typos on the site!!!

It s never ending!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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sue_ab
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Warrior
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 990
Location: NW Tasmania, Australia
Oh Rats (mmm can I say that?)
Tried to merge you all together on the origional thread and yes
you guessed it I did it back to front and have lost the origional title.

Sorry - neraddan - you can change your title back to the maineiac (was that it?)
by clicking on modify and renaming the thread.

Have fun guys.

Sue.


BTD'ing for life since 2000
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neraddan
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thank you Sue for recombobulating me and my thread.  All this excitement's making me blonder for a bit I think!

MCop - Auburn is about 50 minutes north of Portland.

My horses' names are Count Neraddan (aka Radly, 17 year old bay Arabian) and Pete (16 year old Miniature Horse).  Both wonderful fellows.  Radly has owned me for 16 years.  Pete has been co-owner for 4 years here at Heaven on a Hill Farm.
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sue_ab
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 1:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Warrior
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 990
Location: NW Tasmania, Australia
I tend to get a bit excited as well - also blond - and AB - maybe there is no hope for us.

btw great testimonial hope to see you around.

Sue.


BTD'ing for life since 2000
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pipnjohn
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 4:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

ENTP/ISTJ/45YRS married
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 369
Gender: Male
Location: New Zealand     South Island
Age: 75
neraddan, ENTP! Say no more! No you are not nuts, they are. Believe me. John ENTP.
("They" being any one outside an ENTP's personal world)


 
 Would that God the gift to give us
 to see our selves as others see us.   Robbie Burns  

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taswolf  -  Sunday, November 6, 2005, 4:29am
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Gee Whiz
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 4:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh-
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 176
Gender: Female
Location: The Little Blue Planet
No, you're not crazy (not anymore, at least!)

My greatest change on the diet has been the loss of a crippling anxiety that would sideswipe me out of the blue since I was a small child.  One day I noticed that I hadn't felt it in months.  No therapy, self help seminar, book, treatment, whatever had ever done that!  40+ years of anxiety attacks GONE!!!  That's the greatest success the diet has had for me so far.  Now it's been years since I've been attacked by those irrational, horrible, crippling, literally gut-wrenching seizures of existential angst.  I guess they really were  in my gut.  I got that response with just minimal compliance.  Now I am embracing my nonnie-hood and hope to see more wondrous improvements to both my physical and mental health.

Welcome to the insanely sane world of the BTD.


Was CaveWoman
My new name reflects my joy and surprise at being a Gatherer
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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 8:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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no-body is......no-body has... thatswhy I may support cMC's fisties' hi-hi-hiiiiiiii

and all the w*holy* bunchy overthere... you are on a good track huh?? now you begin to fell when I start to be *cranky* hi-hi-hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

the only form of non-boring communication and you might be absolutely sure that ya get a reply   ooooo how  am I addicted to such funny, lovely peoples

when situation of anxiety arrise.. gor threw and no flight and fight again.. when it happens you (me too ) must learn that this party is also a selfcreation and has nothing to do with realities........we must learn to look beyond our patterns to loose them
and BTD is the chemical structurative way to go for ;) because it underlined it that we
are in everytime sure and safe ....if we found the way back to our roots
Thatswhy it is soooooo important to eat and to behave similar to our roots.....






and sorry..couldn't resist... I am sooo happy - I'vent become a dip ;)
how does it sounds kyosha dip K...kirschen...cerieses = yum-yum


oooo   aaaa now I've got it ;) he meant my haircolours ;)  woooo---hoooo

Revision History (4 edits)
taswolf  -  Sunday, November 6, 2005, 10:29am
taswolf  -  Sunday, November 6, 2005, 10:28am
taswolf  -  Sunday, November 6, 2005, 10:27am
taswolf  -  Sunday, November 6, 2005, 8:48am
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neraddan
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 12:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lolo
No, you're not crazy (not anymore, at least!)

My greatest change on the diet has been the loss of a crippling anxiety that would sideswipe me out of the blue since I was a small child.  One day I noticed that I hadn't felt it in months.  No therapy, self help seminar, book, treatment, whatever had ever done that!  40+ years of anxiety attacks GONE!!!  That's the greatest success the diet has had for me so far.  Now it's been years since I've been attacked by those irrational, horrible, crippling, literally gut-wrenching seizures of existential angst.  I guess they really were  in my gut.  I got that response with just minimal compliance.  Now I am embracing my nonnie-hood and hope to see more wondrous improvements to both my physical and mental health.

Welcome to the insanely sane world of the BTD.


Man oh man oh man oh man!  Truer words (I guess they really were in my gut)!!!!

I'm still amazed.  Will probably spend the rest of my life being amazed.  T'is fun!

I'm thrilled to hear other people have had similar attitude changes.  

So glad these forums are here.

John!  On the ENTP - I ususally test ESTP - but know, by the way I do things (highly intuitive approach to programming, art, life in general)  that I'm really an NT at heart.

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Lola
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 8:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,338
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 58
lolo,
what amazing results!!
keep on doing what you re doing!
congratulations! )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 9:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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in Risos' Program ENTP ought to go to ESTP because of integration so far you got it too.... likewise our beloved mikeo.... he's also on his good way too  = good balanced
But if you tested ESTP first... so better to go to INTP/J  here is the integrative way for the ESTP's
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san j
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 10:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Nomadess
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neraddan:

I'm intrigued that you consider yourself a different Meyers-Briggs (Kiersey) type than the one you tested-out as.  The same thing happens to me, so I don't pay the test as much credence as the self-evaluation.  I think that in P.U.M II he makes room for this other way of testing: Self-evaluation.  Certainly Isabel Meyers did too.


D'Adamo proponent since 1997
dadamo Blogger and Forum participant since 2005
Cyber-Newbie, as of 2004
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SheriBerry
Sunday, November 6, 2005, 11:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

O / Hunter
Ee Dan
Posts: 794
Gender: Female
Location: Rosemary Beach, Florida and Mobile Alabama
Age: 54
No joking.. I play tennis SOOO much better when I've been compliant on the BTD... I know it's because my  mind is sharper... I have more energy... and I just have  the self confidence to make the shots!!

My biggest rival ( and friend) and I play a real match every Sunday morning.. I  can sure see the difference , and I know it has to do with a confidence level I didn't have before....
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neraddan
Monday, November 7, 2005, 11:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from exj_j
neraddan:

I'm intrigued that you consider yourself a different Meyers-Briggs (Kiersey) type than the one you tested-out as.  The same thing happens to me, so I don't pay the test as much credence as the self-evaluation.  I think that in P.U.M II he makes room for this other way of testing: Self-evaluation.  Certainly Isabel Meyers did too.


I've taken the Meyers-Briggs test several times over the years - 9 times out of 10 I'd test ESTP, but the S was usually very low on the scale - one time coming through as a 1.  I tested once as an INTP taking the test after a very introverted vacation on an island with very little people interaction.

Watching myself at work when I'm solving a programming problem or as I work on a fabric collage I see a lot of intuitive/right brain work going on.  

I don't doubt the other 3 indicators,  I'm a low level E, definitely a doer/thinker type.  Don't remember the scale placement for the P/J, but def. don't like to be tied down to a schedule (hence finally finding a job where I can work from home and have ultimate flexibility).  

Meyers-Briggs/Keirsey is interesting stuff, but like the BTD, it's a framework within which to create our own unique program.

Kate
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, November 7, 2005, 1:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,134
Gender: Female
Location: Florida
Age: 53
Quoted from neraddan
...I'm still amazed. Will probably spend the rest of my life being amazed. T'is fun!...

Welcome, neraddan, and congrats on your happy amazement-inducing results thus far with the BTD!  I have exactly the same reaction and I've been on the thaaang since long about 1997!  I am always saying to peeps that "the novelty never wears off", "the thrill is still thrilling".  That is why I was able to resist the bagel chips and hot cheese dip someone brought in this morning and stick to my outside-the-box lambchop for breakfast.  Nothing tastes as good as health feels!  (Although I did have a rare wheat transgression this weekend, but we don't need to go THERE just now--took some glucosamine and am still riding 'er out but I think I'm okay...glucosamine is awesome stuff...but don't try this at home, O's, stick to wheat-free...turning my attention back to YOU now, neraddan...)  The oh-so-even-cooler part of this diet is that the amazing things just keep coming and coming, so strap in for what I term "the fantastic journey", as you are just at the beginning of amazement.

Enjoy!



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

my Facebook page
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Poly
Monday, November 7, 2005, 1:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT2 Gatherer - Rh+
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 1,430
Gender: Female
Location: Denmark
Age: 47
Quoted from neraddan
...I own and ride a horse. I started riding as an adult and have struggled with confidence issues forever. My fellow isn't dangerous at all, but does have a lovely duck and spin move when he's startled. Doesn't usually throw me, but it unsettles me. Now, prior to BTD there would be days that nothing would get me on my horse's back - just an irrational, fetal, can't explain it, can't therapy my way out of it fear of riding. (not fear of the horse, but the what if, completely irrational numbing can't do it miasma). Especially when I needed to ride alone, which, since I live alone, I have to do frequently...


Wow, this was like reading something I could have written about my own (late ) horse and the way I felt about riding her. Complete with "duck and spin move" and everything. Amazing!

I never found the cure for my uncertainties while she was alive, sadly enough. But I'm determined to do something about it, when I get a new horse. (WHEN not IF! )

It's so great to read how BTD changed so much for you, neraddan. Congratulation! Also to you horsie (what's his/her name?). All the great time you two now will spend together. And your horse will feel the difference and react accordingly. My Night Life (I didn't name her, honestly! ) was amazing, when I was in a "good period".


Poly

Married to Per - GT4 Explorer - B-non - Rh+
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neraddan
Monday, November 7, 2005, 2:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from neraddan


My horses' names are Count Neraddan (aka Radly, 17 year old bay Arabian) and Pete (16 year old grey Miniature Horse).  Both wonderful fellows.  Radly has owned me for 16 years.  Pete has been co-owner for 4 years here at Heaven on a Hill Farm.


Poly!  Nice to find more horse people in the world!  Aren't they just the most amazing creatures.  I'm looking forward to building a better partnership with Radly as this new found confidence grows.  It's gonna be FUN!

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Poly
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 7:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT2 Gatherer - Rh+
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 1,430
Gender: Female
Location: Denmark
Age: 47
*slaps forehead* Duh, Poly - read the posts properly!

Good luck, neraddan! I'm so envious - I miss horse riding in my life. Just not got the money for it right now - and besides - I find it hard to find a new horse. No one will ever fill Night Life's space. I have yet to meet the horse, that "speaks" to me like she did from day 1. But I'm confident he/she is out there somewhere waiting for me...

Horses are amazing creatures. So big and strong and yet so gentle and totally depended on you. Love them.


Poly

Married to Per - GT4 Explorer - B-non - Rh+
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ISA-MANUELA
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 8:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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yup I do miss *maleman* the second horsebackriding of my life in April in USA with
the wholy bunch of Peter D'Adamo  was great... wanted to repeat... but got afraid
after.... my lsp. pictured me out with a broken leg and spine and other yummacialous things so far .... perhaps his intimates wishes forrr me h  
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san j
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 4:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Nomadess
Columnists and Bloggers
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Some of us B's have ancestral horse-memories from the Mongol days.  We B's: On the move, one way or another.

And the animal-human communication thing, for us shepherds: Very powerful.


D'Adamo proponent since 1997
dadamo Blogger and Forum participant since 2005
Cyber-Newbie, as of 2004
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EquiPro
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 5:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,350
Gender: Female
As a former professional horse trainer and polo player (for over 10 years I owned, trained, played polo on and sold about 40-50 head of horses per year), I can give you alittle help with the "duck and swipe" depending on how well the horse was originally trained.  This reaction is something that I completely trained out of all of my horses (I sold a lot of high-end polo ponies to beginners, and they had to be "bomb proof").  The oddball that I couldn't train out of it completely, at least learned to control it and not to duck out on me.  Nothing worse than hanging out of those flat polo saddles, reaching out for a shot and having a horse duck.  Unacceptable.

Arabs tend to be more difficult with the whole "fight or flight" reaction, but you, most likely can get  him out of it for the most part.

Not reacting too much to it is a great first step.  Secondly, are you riding in an English or Western saddle, and what type of bit do you use?  If you'd like some help, I can probably give you a few tips.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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neraddan
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 12:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks EquiPro - he's much better these days - only does the 180's when he's REALLY scared.  Now it's usually just a startle slight dodge to the side or a scoot forward.  And he's impeccable in company - it's the alone business that can overwhelm at times.

I ride in an Ansur treeless dressage saddle (which made a huge difference in his comfort level so reduced spooking immensely) and use either a Little S Hackamore when we're trail riding or a French link snaffle if we're attempting to do some dressage schooling.

exj-j - I'm with you on the animal communication part of things - when I'm centered I can be quite good at it.  I've always had a powerful need for horses - even though it lay dormant for many years.  Don't have to ride, just have to have them in my life (though riding is the penultimate communication experience).

Poly - I knew the minute I laid eyes on Radly that he was my horse.  I hope you have the same experience soon!
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EquiPro
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 2:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,350
Gender: Female
For me, any 180's or ducking and dodging is bad manners and just unacceptable.  Especially when alone.  I'm not a "horse whisperer" type of trainer, although years and years of dealing with different types of horses allows me to tune into each one pretty quickly.

I view horses something similar to the way that I view children in that there is nothing worse than being around a spoiled, obnoxious or poorly behaved child and it is the same with a horse.  You can love those horses, but part of loving them is teaching them good socialization.  For me, part of good socialization for a horse is that they understand that certain behaviors are unacceptable.  Why?  Because you can get hurt or even killed.

The fact that your horse does this when he is alone with you makes me think of two things:

1) If you get hurt by this bahavior when you are alone, you are in serious trouble (and many, many a top horseman has been unhorsed by exactly the type of behavior that you are describing)

and

2)  This is a rider-error issue, which 95% of bad behavior is.

If this were me, the first thing that I would do when I was riding alone would be to get this horse into a bit situation that afforded you much more control.  A snaffle just doesn't do it, and the horse knows this.

One thing that you must understand, in order to rid your horse of this dangerous behavior, is that horses aren't people.  I know that it is human tendencies to extend a high-level of anthropromorphism to horses.  However, doing so can get you killed.  I personally know two people who were killed by horses - one of them in a typical situation that you describe (although, being stupid, the rider mounted her horse in the barn - one of the most dangerous things you can do - when the horse wheeled out from under her killing her).  Horses are big, strong herd animals that are creatures of habit.  They tolerate us because we have trained them to do so.  You need to take the upper hand here.

Anyway, proper bitting could take care of a LOT of this problem.  The reality is that your horse did it once and got away with it.  The bit that you are using is insufficient to control him in this situation, and it needs to stop before you get hurt.

I would recommend trying a gag bit with running draw reins.  I would look for a big-ringed, large mouthpiece gag.

here is a nice little article about gag bits, in case you are not familiar with them:

http://equisearch.com/horses_riding_training/tack_apparel/english/gagbit_021405/

here is a picture of the type of gag that I would suggest.  Though they call it a "polo" gag, I like it because the mouthpiece is big and fat.  That means that it is very gentle and a good place to start:

http://www.argentinapolo.com/images/picArgentinaPoloGagBit1.jpg

If your horse accepts the gag, which he probably will, and this one isn't enough, you could try a Barry Gag, pictured here:

http://www.westernshoppe.com/gen/P13353.Htm

If you are small, and your horse is big, and Barry gag is a great way to go, as it give you a lot of control.  You need to have good hands to work with this bit, but it is very effective.

Be sure, if you try the gag, that you fit it properly and use a drop noseband with it.  The teeth need to be in good condition with no sharp edges, especially the back top molars.  Make sure that you have your horses teeth floated with this bit.

The next thing that you need is a set of draw reins.  Here is a good drawing of what they do:

http://www.pards.com/store/assets/products/large/03-08-1004.jpg

You should start with draw reins that attach to the girth, feed through the snaffle portion of the gag, and back to your hands.

Why this combination of a gag and draw reins?  The combo will help to keep your horses head in place.  It is very difficult for a horse to do the dodge move without first dropping and turning his head.  Horses that are extremely proficient in the "rollback" (like polo ponies, unfortunately) can roll back on their haunches and spin, but this is an easy move to ride out.

When you ride alone, you should wear this bit/ rein combo every time.  Keep your reins relatively short (but not short enough to engage the bit).  Keep him on a tight rein, in other words.  The first time he tries to tuck and roll, he will find it a lot more difficult to do so.

Now, comes the part that non-professionals don't like.  While this bit combo will keep him from ducking and diving without warning, it doesn't address the problem which is this:  he's used to doing it, he knows that he can do it with you, and there is no real consequence for it (my guess here).

You must carry a whip.  Not a bat.  A whip.  A nice LONG whip.  Like a schooling whip.

The first time that he ducks and rolls on you, his back will be facing the object that spooked him.  You need to immediately back him up into this object.  He cannot be allowed to escape it.  You need to reset his flight impulse.

Back him up into it quickly and roll him back around.  This should place him back in the "starting" position, so to speak, where he has to look at this object and decided if he is going to react or not.  There will be a moment where he will process this.  This is when you need to have both the bit and the drawreins engaged.  He will look at it again, and stand for a moment.  If he relaxes and remains calm, he gets a "good boy" and a petting.  This allows him to realize that he is going to have to look at whatever spooked him - that YOU are going to make him do it, so there's not much point in over-reacting.

However, if he starts to wheel again, you need to smack him - HARD - on the butt with the whip, and give him a good pop with spurs if you were them (which you should).  This is going to make him jump forward, so be ready.  If he's already tucked and rolled when you whip him, this will be a problem as he'll think that it was his fear object that "bit" him and it will reinforce his reaction.  This is the reason that you have to be ready and be holding his head.

Now he knows that there is a consequence for acting on this impulse.  This is a good thing.  Since we can't put horses in "time out", this is the consequence that we CAN use.  And, like children, the consequence has to be appropriate and consistent.

This series has to be done EVERY time he rolls.

back him up.  HARD.

Allow him a moment to face the object.

REWARD relaxation and acceptance

PUNISH bad behavior.

Once you get this technique down, he will move towards giving up this behavior.  Depending on his smarts and your ability to execute this move, it could be pretty quickly. I would, however, carry the whip and use this bridle/rein combination every single time I ride alone.

Please don't dismiss this behavior.  It is very, very dangerous.  As much as we want to think that horses are our friends and love us, this really isn't true.  They are herd animals who have been conditioned to allow us to ride them.  They are trained, good or bad, to allow this.  The are large animals and they can seriously hurt or kill someone in an instant.  The duck and roll is the equivalent of letting a dog bite you on a regular bases.  What started out as an instinctual reaction has become habit and it is a very dangerous one.

Bits, reins, whips and spurs are all tools of the trade.  The reason that you rarely see professionals riding without these tools is because we know that they are needed.  Horses are much stronger than we are, and these tools help us make our job easier.

If your horse REALLY fights the gag (which he probably won't because your already ride him in a snaffle), you could try something else.  I would NOT ride him alone in a hackamore.  The action on this can increase his tuck and roll response and it isn't enough control to get him out of the habit.

I hope that you take my advise and take care of this problem.  In the horse world, amongst professionals, this is a serious bad trait.  Why?  Because it is generally unpredictable.  Because it can unhorse you.  And because if you are unhorsed alone, you can be in danger and so can your horse.  As I said, I personally know 2 people killed by this behavior.  I have also seen - personally witnessed - horses tearing off after dumping their riders and getting seriously hurt.  This is a dangerous habit for you and your horse, BUT it is one that, usually, can be broken fairly quickly.

After he stops doing this randomly, you can start taking him up to "scary things", ready to react, and start teaching him to accept that you decide where he goes and it is his job to behave.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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neraddan
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 5:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thank you, Equipro for taking the time to outline your training approach.  I'd say we have polar opposite training approaches to problems with some basics that are the same.  

Thanks again.
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EquiPro
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 8:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,350
Gender: Female
Sure.  Everyone is different. Since I had to train lots and lots of horses, and get them ready for any number of riders, I developed techniques that work under those circumstances.  My buyers safety was alway my first and foremost concern, and these techniques are efficient and effective and tend to stay with the horse, even when they leave my barn.

I do realize that many people prefer to deal with it a different way.  I just don't like the prospect of injury, to either rider or horse.

Good Luck!


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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neraddan
Sunday, January 1, 2006, 3:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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T'is been a while since I've posted.  Still feeling good - had a 'fun' experiment with beef a couple of weeks ago - had a steak on a Thurs night and prime rib at my company Xmas party 2 days later.  Could NOT get out of my own way on Sunday - just really tired and no energy whatsoever.

I sent my secretor test in on 12/14 - no results yet - how long does it take to get the results back???
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Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, January 1, 2006, 4:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 2,774
Gender: Female
Location: Indiana, USA
Age: 69
I shipped my saliva sample via DHL on October 10, the lab received it on the 11th, and my results were available online on the 18th.  They snail-mailed my results to my old address (not the one I gave them -- apparently because I had done business with the same lab previously), but the postmark was October 21, and the forwarding label is dated the 26th.

This time of year, though, everything takes longer.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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MissileCop
Sunday, January 1, 2006, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Sam Dan
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 406
Location: The Tiny State of New Hampshire
Quoted from neraddan
T'is been a while since I've posted. Still feeling good - had a 'fun' experiment with beef a couple of weeks ago - had a steak on a Thurs night and prime rib at my company Xmas party 2 days later. Could NOT get out of my own way on Sunday - just really tired and no energy whatsoever.


Hmmm....won't do that again, will we?  

It sucks, going through that icky feeling, but at the same time, it reinforces our resolve to make better choices the next time around, and to help us remember why we don't eat certain foods.

Glad to hear that you're still feeling good.  

Now keep those horsies warm.  It's chilly out there.  



The most important letter in the alphabet is the letter L.  
Without it, we would not experience the most important qualities of our existence; Living, Loving, Learning, Laughing.

MC- One vertically challenged guy, trying to become a muscle-bound Oompa-Loompa.  
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Alia Vo
Sunday, January 1, 2006, 6:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,640
Gender: Female
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Age: 43
neradden and lolo,

Thanks for sharing your stories--great testimonies for all of us.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
John 17
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neraddan
Sunday, January 1, 2006, 10:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MissileCop


Hmmm....won't do that again, will we?  

It sucks, going through that icky feeling, but at the same time, it reinforces our resolve to make better choices the next time around, and to help us remember why we don't eat certain foods.

Glad to hear that you're still feeling good.  

Now keep those horsies warm.  It's chilly out there.  



MC, you are SO right on the reinforcement - I think that's part of why I did the beef eating - to see how I'd feel.   Now I KNOW!

Even though I didn't ask for a web report of my secretor status, I went and checked anyway.  Got the report and I'm a secretor.  Good to know!

Now off to cook my broccoli to go with my tilapia and roasted veggies...
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