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Patty H
Monday, August 4, 2014, 1:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Location: Massachusetts
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I feel somewhat reluctant to share this, but decided that I would because I have been feeling frustrated with this Forum over the last couple of years.  To that point, I stopped posting or reading anything on here for almost a year.  I believe there is a lot of value to be found here and was hoping to start a conversation about my concerns, as I know there are other people who have stopped using this Forum for the same reason.  So my intent is to bring this to people's attention, for those who care to chime in, and discuss this in a thoughtful and nonjudgmental manner.

My personal experience (and I know of others who have had this experience) is that it seems that sometimes I have encountered what I would consider "One Size Fits All" thinking with regards to either my blood type or my GenoType.  After having two separate genetic profiles done, one specifically for heart disease done by Genova Diagnostics and the other, much more comprehensive profile done by 23andMe, I have found that I am NOT the typical O or the typical Hunter due to specific polymorphisms found in my individual genetic makeup.

When asking questions or posting here, I have tried to include my genetic information to help readers and prospective responders understand that I am not a typical O.  I have even begun to question the idea of a typical O or GenoType given the fact that our genetic makeup is so unique.  It is not the diet so much that I am talking about here but the advice one might seek for family health history and personal health history.

Certainly one option for me would be to send in all my genetic info to Dr. D to see if it changes my diet, but I was very clear with Dr. Nash about my family history and so I know that information is incorporated into my SwamiPro.

It is my belief that genetic information is the next wave of individualized medicine as doctors are now using genetic info to treat cancer, etc.  I would love to understand how genetic information will be used going forward on the BTD/GTD and how it will impact the advice one is given here on this forum.


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Seraffa
Monday, August 4, 2014, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer!
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That is a GREAT idea, Patty! I'm sure Dr. D never meant for his program to be static in nature!

I have a great theory I alluded to when I talked about seeing the X Men movie earlier this year. We're ALL "X-Men and Women". This will all go beyond what we know currently as "individuality" as more generations of families eat right for their types plus add in as much information as they can gather about their bodies. We are only scratching the surface after the first 15 years of D'Adamo research + practise. Like the millions of species of animals that have developed over time on planet earth, we can ultimately, only be grouped into genus and family as we become the best we can be. We could even see new categories of O A B and AB show up over time. Only time will tell . I pity the folks out there who cannot see the thrilling generational research that Dr. D's program encompasses for the years ahead, simply because they will not take the first steps, as we are doing, and lean on listening to mis-information supplied by (people like those up at University of Toronto in recent studies)!

He is also writing new software, as you can see on the forum: http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1406571432/

Also there is  "Hunter's Lodge" support thread newly started about 2 months ago if you wish to pose your question to all Hunters.

There's really no reason to "drop out of the pack, " so to speak, around here, because people are still making exciting changes to their lives every day and crossing new boundaries. Like Goldie, for example (a Gatherer).


INFJ/ENFJ wings 3+4, Numerology: 1
Sun Pisc. Moon Capr. ASC Virg. N.Node Gem. S. Node Sagg.

Mortal life is a stay in a vast hospital ward.
(Eastern Orthodoxy +)

Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential. (Churchill)

SWAMI-saved from bulimia!

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Seraffa  -  Monday, August 4, 2014, 2:30pm
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ruthiegirl
Monday, August 4, 2014, 2:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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I always think of BTD as a starting point for individualized eating, not the ending point. We're all unique, but some of us fit the "pattern" better than others.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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ABJoe
Monday, August 4, 2014, 2:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
Certainly one option for me would be to send in all my genetic info to Dr. D to see if it changes my diet, but I was very clear with Dr. Nash about my family history and so I know that information is incorporated into my SwamiPro.

It is my belief that genetic information is the next wave of individualized medicine as doctors are now using genetic info to treat cancer, etc.  I would love to understand how genetic information will be used going forward on the BTD/GTD and how it will impact the advice one is given here on this forum.

I really doubt anyone other than Dr. D. can state anything about how SWAMI will change in the future.  He may not know at this point.  

What I am fairly certain about is that he will incorporate new information as it becomes available.  

I am really sorry that you feel that the forum has somehow let you down, but I don't know how we can help you further, since you are looking for answers that are not answered by any research at this time.  The best any of us lay people on the forum can do is to 1) reiterate what is in the books or software; or 2) ignore your questions / statements.  I don't know what you would be more happy with.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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deblynn3
Monday, August 4, 2014, 2:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I always hate it when I see a question, and there are no replies, but I don't very often post myself because as ABJoe says I could only repeat what is in the books or personal experience which as you say isn't helping because of your individuality.  I for one hope you will post what has worked for you, so I can learn from it.    I've just ordered 23&me, so I find any info you post of interest.


Swami, 100% me..
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Averno
Monday, August 4, 2014, 3:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
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Quoted from deblynn3
I always hate it when I see a question, and there are no replies, but I don't very often post myself because as ABJoe says I could only repeat what is in the books or personal experience which as you say isn't helping because of your individuality. I for one hope you will post what has worked for you, so I can learn from it.    I've just ordered 23&me, so I find any info you post of interest.


Patty H, because you are an outlier by your own estimation, your observations are that much more valuable to the rest of us here. While general answers may not be immediately useful to some of your inquiries, they nevertheless expand the conversation in valuable ways. I'm sure everyone here wishes to see more, not less of you.





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jayneeo
Monday, August 4, 2014, 3:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you, Patty! I really appreciate your point! I too have dropped off the forum in the past for over 6 mo. at a time, for a similar reason.  Why do I come back? Mostly for weight loss motivation….
But I need serious alternative health help that I certainly cannot get here, involving mthfr issues, which are all extremely individual. Some of us need more of one thing, some less, etc. I really wish Dr. D., with his brilliance, would take the whole mthfr thing on!
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Amazone I.
Monday, August 4, 2014, 3:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
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as P.D. once mentioned... he quickly left the SNPS thingy and went into his own research....based upon BTD... I observed that my swami recommendations are + - the same then given in lr4yt... ok I seem to be such a fuzzy explomade.... perhaps are we one of the most facile to come along with this diet .... whta's so true are the infos about inflammations and gum disease.... but I also recognized that it seems the supplements amounts in my case always are much higher then discribed.... ....but perhaps does here also plays a role about %centages of different genotypes in one person... So far I'm a well equiped r-ratings of an explorer....nomade...teacher...and warrior.... i think also all is about balancing our types...

The teachings in molecular biology and translational science of Claude Bouchard and Jose ordovas do declaire strictly that indeedthey do have problems to show up with validities in nutri-genomics and genetical interactions...expressis verbis they say that until now none of the said would prove any correctnes... so far I am sure that Dr. D always was on the right track and side and won't give any informations of no values!
My genetical profiles once done last year in Austria also show up with very little informations about food intolerances etc... here I think and observed are the recommendations of Dr. D almost preventive markers ... But I'm sure it's a great prevention ....

ps.

in those tests they came along also with breast cancer issues in my case... yep I know... but we nonnies do react differently from the rest of this mundo;) ... next: don't get shy nor disturbed...all this means: it can be... but mustn't !!!



ppss:

I also got tested as a very fast acylator...and my detox system seems to go faster then fast... not at all as discribed for an explorer ....


MIfHI K-174

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KimonoKat
Monday, August 4, 2014, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you Patty, for sharing your experiences and frustrations. I wish I had more to add. Would you consider a return trip to see Dr. Nash or a phone consult?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Jane
Monday, August 4, 2014, 3:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty,
You'll be missed and very sorry that you aren't getting the validation and answers that you seek.  I certainly think that Dr. D understands and that is what n=1 is all about.
There are many different viewpoints and levels of understanding on the forums and hopefully our differences expand our knowledge rather than pigeonhole it.
I second what KK said and add that maybe even a consult with Dr. D himself would bring some clarity and hopefully answers.
Jane
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Lloyd
Monday, August 4, 2014, 4:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H

When asking questions or posting here, I have tried to include my genetic information to help readers and prospective responders understand that I am not a typical O.  I have even begun to question the idea of a typical O or GenoType given the fact that our genetic makeup is so unique.  It is not the diet so much that I am talking about here but the advice one might seek for family health history and personal health history.



Patty, posting that extra data is helpful in getting appropriate responses.

Some things to keep in mind:
  • The more unique your issues are, the more likely any advice given is speculative.
  • None of us are typical. We are untypical in different ways.
  • Getting down to specific genes or alleles at some point becomes a prescription and therefore subject to additional laws and regulation. At that point the best someone can do is point you to a licensed healthcare professional equipped to handle it.
  • Responses to posts are sometimes based on misreading the original post or the intent of the post, or a poorly worded post.


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Chloe
Monday, August 4, 2014, 7:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
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Quoted from KimonoKat
Thank you Patty, for sharing your experiences and frustrations. I wish I had more to add. Would you consider a return trip to see Dr. Nash or a phone consult?


I'm in agreement.  These issues sound like concerns that might be far better addressed by
Dr. Nash or Dr. D

I think forum members respond to posts to the best of their abilities.  A subject like this might be
out of the realm of most of us to intelligently reply.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

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ginnyTN
Monday, August 4, 2014, 10:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I agree with Patty in one respect:  Not being able to fit into "a category" can be totally frustrating.  

This forum is not professional advice in any way - it is "just us" sharing as we can.  Some of "us" are highly knowledgeable (Lola and others) and some of us (me) are striving to learn more as we go along.  

My own individual SWAMI food list fits me quite well in most ways - not one of the Genotype diets in the book did that.  Still, there are some foods that do not agree with me.  It is up to me as a big part of my health care team to do the best I can for my own body.  I continue to research and to consult with a very good homeopath/naturopath locally, as well as to check in here for other ideas.    

The help I have received from day one when I started the original ER diet to now with SWAMi has been worth more than gold.

I feel very sad if you feel that Dr.D's programs (any OR all) are not helpful for you and that this forum is frustrating for you.  I have enjoyed reading your posts in the past, as I have those of other active members.  


6 years on ER BTD, went from sick and dying to healthier And 30 pounds slimmer.  

Dec 2013: Started Swami Xpress - I'm 48% Explorer with hybridized Explorer/BTD list. A new adventure for this old lady!  -- LOST 5 more pounds on SWAMI! 
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Spring
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 12:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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One thing for sure, Patty H, you may feel that you are at your road's end here because of poor feedback. But I can assure you that, I, for one, have learned a lot from your posts and your journey toward having a healthy heart against such odds.

I didn't think to mention this earlier, but Hawthorn has done wonders for me and my heart. I have no idea what the response of an O-type might be, but I know several other people who have done really great on it. I don't know their blood types. I do not want to be without Hawthorn. My mother died of a heart attack very suddenly and had never shown any signs of heart disease before that in spite of extensive testing. So you can see that I am trying to protect my heart too.

Probably more people than you realize have left the forum at different times for different reasons but are here with us today. My problem was the extreme issues I had with some foods on my diets, but there were some who didn't take that seriously at all. That is one reason I LOVE the individuality of SWAMI!! It is a gift!! I simply know that, for now, there are certain foods I cannot eat without having a serious problem with them, and it doesn't matter at all what other people think about that. But feedback about whatever might be going around at any given point, government issues about supplements, what supplements might be helpful for certain things, etc., is something that we can all discuss without problems, I think, and it can be very helpful.

Another thing that I have noticed is that people seem to sort of become worn out with summer come August with still several weeks to go. I used to tell my sons that I wished school started the first of August, or at least by the middle of the month, because they were so bored and grumpy until school started! If the neighborhood boys were going to get into mischief, it usually happened in August! So maybe we can look forward to those first cooler days of September and, hopefully, that will help revive us a bit!  


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Dianne
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 2:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty - I find your posts to be very intelligent and interesting. Among the posters that I enjoy reading, you are one of them. I do not post much either, too busy with my life. One of the reasons I keep checking is that I am hoping that the SWAMI changes that were to come a couple of years ago will make an appearance!

I am of the firm belief, that even SWAMI has its limitations in some ways as we are all individuals  under the heading of a GENO Type. I have proved this to myself through trial and error. Having said this though, SWAMI has been so valuable for my well being, as well other modalities that I was doing before having contributed seem to work hand in hand with SWAMI.

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Patty H
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 2:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Thank you ALL for your thoughtful responses.  I wanted to get the conversation going on this topic as I feel it is something many of us have felt at one time or another - that we take the time to start a thread about something - and we get responses that are either not relevant or imply that the poster has not read the original post.  People start threads because they are looking for information for their individual issues and I agree with what most of you have said - we can all learn from one another.  The variety of responses is great and one can pick and choose which responses best resonate with them.  That being said, I think we owe the original poster the respect of reading their post before we respond.

I want to apologize if my original post leads people to believe I am dropping off the forum.  I have no plans to drop off.  

I also want to apologize if my original post leads people to believe that I am in any way dissatisfied with Dr. D or his diet.  This is not the case.  My original visit with Dr. Nash was very positive and she was great!

As is true with all of us here, I am just trying to deal with my own unique makeup.  I love what Averno said - that I am an outlier.  I believe this is true of many of us.  I guess the main intent of my original post was just that - there is no such thing as a typical O, A, B, AB.  Lloyd said this as well and it is important for all of us to hear.  

Thank you for the compliments on my contributions.  I do try to read people's posts thoroughly and respond with specifics rather than generalities.  That is, I think, what we all want when we seek advice here.  I am grateful for the forum and for the ability to start this conversation and receive thoughtful, respectful replies.  I plan to continue to contribute and learn!


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Lola
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 3:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yup, well said patty
only this one size fit my weirdness, and would not think of any other

have too much to be thankful for

I have mentally and emotionally moved on from the basic ‘one size fits all’ school of nutrition to the new ‘P4′ model of medicine (personalization, prediction, prevention, participation).


Quoted Text
Dr D:  Personalization is everything: The fact that you are reading this article implies that you have mentally and emotionally moved on from the basic ‘one size fits all’ school of nutrition to the new ‘P4′ model of medicine (personalization, prediction, prevention, participation). We all have different needs, vulnerabilities and strengths. Just like there is really no American household with 2.7 children, there is no single correct formula for supplement usage. There is a thin line between a tool and a weapon. A hammer can both fix a loose floorboard and smash a finger. The great gift of individualization that we have been given by the knowledge of blood type, secretor status and epigenetics, gives us all the skills we need to use these tools to their fullest and safest effect.



''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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Seraffa
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 3:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer!
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Quoted from Patty H
To that point, I stopped posting or reading anything on here for almost a year.  


Yep, it was confusing, cos I thought you had just arrived after a year of being away.  


INFJ/ENFJ wings 3+4, Numerology: 1
Sun Pisc. Moon Capr. ASC Virg. N.Node Gem. S. Node Sagg.

Mortal life is a stay in a vast hospital ward.
(Eastern Orthodoxy +)

Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential. (Churchill)

SWAMI-saved from bulimia!
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Spring
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 3:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
- that I am an outlier.
I would hope that on some level at least this feeling would change.



"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Patty H
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 3:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Seraffa


Yep, it was confusing, cos I thought you had just arrived after a year of being away.  


Ok - now I understand, Seraffa.  I have been back on the forum for probably a year now.  Sorry for the confusion.


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Patty H
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 3:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Spring
I would hope that on some level at least this feeling would change.



I don't think this is a negative - just that I am different from the "typical" O if there is such a thing as a typical O.  I believe that is what Averno meant.


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Lloyd
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 3:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from Patty H

different from the "typical" O if there is such a thing as a typical O.  


Every O has some differences from a typical or "type cast"  or "average" O. The variances, both in number and distance from the typical is individuality.

That's all.

I consider myself to be fairly typical for an O and my SWAMI reflects that, however there are clear and obvious differences between myself and the description of a typical O. Take that for what it is worth.
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Chloe
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 4:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Lloyd


Every O has some differences from a typical or "type cast"  or "average" O. The variances, both in number and distance from the typical is individuality.

That's all.

I consider myself to be fairly typical for an O and my SWAMI reflects that, however there are clear and obvious differences between myself and the description of a typical O. Take that for what it is worth.


So wouldn't every blood type be the same in this respect?  Have great variances within each blood
group and genotype?  Everyone in my family is type A....husband, 2 children, 3 out of 4 grandchildren, daughter in law, both of my sisters, their daughters....all of us are As.  No two of
us are remotely similar. My husband and daughter in law are different genotypes, but both nonnies.  Husband has no problem with weight as long as he doesn't eat wheat.  He's a Warrior
and most Warriors have issues with weight....My husband has tons of energy and easily loses
weight the moment he eats a lot of beneficials. My Teacher daughter in law struggles endlessly
to lose one pound.  She has a big belly and doesn't really look like a Teacher except that I remember meeting her 22 years ago when she was thin, and then she did....My sisters can both
eat meat....I can't...well, I could but I don't.  I have no clue about their secretor status...but neither
sister could be nor wants to be anything remotely close to a vegetarian....and both seem to eat
whatever they want with no health issues.  My youngest sister smokes, drinks loads of red wine...
smokes pot....is the healthiest person in our family.  Why is this?  Our genetics potentially  don't point to anyone having great health, considering that this is a 63 year old who has been smoking since she's 13....Her mind is sharp....Is she somehow going to totally fall apart and
have epigenetic system failure at some point.?

What explains people who are walking around with genes for cancer and heart disease and yet, they abuse their bodies, aren't eating for their blood type nor genotype....what keeps these people healthy?  I really want to know the answer.  Is there something connected to our thoughts and beliefs about our health?

Our family....all of Ashkenazi Jewish heritage....a lot of long lived people in my family.  Great grandmother lived to 100...Her daughter, my mother's mother lived to 98......yet my mother died at 49...My father 87. when his parents died in their 60s.......Everyone either died of heart disease, or a few of cancer....but even my father's sister who had breast cancer in her late 60s, had a mastectomy, no treatment (because chemo didn't exist)....died at 90 in her sleep, not of
cancer........ate whatever she wanted her entire life and also was a smoker.

I wish I knew what to think....I really don't....I see the benefit of knowing a lot about yourself....
and eating the very best foods I can choose....but how many people aren't eating the very
best foods, aren't sick, aren't caring about their blood type nor genotype.  Why are these people
still healthy?  Maybe because they don't worry or care about their health....and just aren't caught
up in the fear of any of this.  Honestly, this is what I believe....that if you know you're doing the
very best you can do, and get rid of the fear factor of everything that could be or might be....
you just live your life....and focus on other things. I wish I could focus on just other things....but ever since I saw Dr. D when I was 47 years old, and learned of the weak links in being a blood
type A,  my focus has been on my diet, my health and trying to keep myself healthy.  Is this mentally a good thing?    It's a rhetorical question...but open for discussion.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

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Spring
Tuesday, August 5, 2014, 4:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,406
Gender: Female
Location: Southeastern USA
I would think that using the common parameters of each of the types, Dr. D. has written the diets in a way that they can include everyone. But a diet is a diet. Various health issues, of course, would change things from the normal, but I don't see how a diet anywhere written for the general public could take into consideration all health conditions unique to each person. An impossible feat.  That is where a professional can give guidance, as others have said. To me, health conditions are different from the "usual" make up of a blood type. (That is the beauty of SWAMI. If we have any tendencies for certain diseases, it is right there to be addressed NO MATTER THE TYPE!) Even though A-types are more prone to have cancer and heart attacks, we know that ANYONE can have one or the other or both. This brings to mind the old puzzle about why some poor old skinny man or woman can smoke non-stop for decades and still outlive their health-conscious friends! Walking chimneys, but somehow surviving! Wow!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Ee Dan
Posts: 3,406
Gender: Female
Location: Southeastern USA
Chloe, it is funny how some of our thoughts were correlating because I had not read your post before I wrote!  


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Supp Right For Your Type  ›  One Size Fits None- Even on this Diet

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