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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My redheaded son tans quite nicely. I use zinc oxide ointment (sold as diaper rash cream) as sunscreen on him when he's going to be in the sun for a long time and hasn't yet built up an adequate base tan (such as the first day of the beach, or the back of his neck on the first few warm days in spring).


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Mayflowers
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 7:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
My redheaded son tans quite nicely. I use zinc oxide ointment (sold as diaper rash cream) as sunscreen on him when he's going to be in the sun for a long time and hasn't yet built up an adequate base tan (such as the first day of the beach, or the back of his neck on the first few warm days in spring).


Well your son is an oddity. Most natural redheads don't tan, only burn..But then again most natural redheads are Irish/Celtic and not Jewish.  So who knew?  
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Chloe
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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FYI....Jewish redheads

Red hair is fairly common amongst the Ashkenazi Jewish populations, possibly because of the influx of European DNA over a period of centuries, or in the original founding of their communities in Europe. Both Esau and David are described in the Bible as red-haired. In European culture, prior to the 20th century, red hair was often seen as a stereotypically Jewish trait: during the Spanish Inquisition, all those with red hair were identified as Jewish.In Italy, red hair was associated with Italian Jews, and Judas was traditionally depicted as red-haired in Italian and Spanish art.Writers from Shakespeare to Dickens would identify Jewish characters by giving them red hair. The stereotype that red hair is Jewish remains in parts of Eastern Europe and Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Chloe
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Back on topic.  Thought this was very interesting.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255957.php


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Mayflowers
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 8:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
FYI....Jewish redheads


Thank you for that info Chloe.
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Chloe
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 8:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


Thank you for that info Chloe.


You're welcome and I honestly didn't know this much about Jewish redheads until I did some
research.  Live and learn.  


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 9:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
FYI....Jewish redheads

Red hair is fairly common amongst the Ashkenazi Jewish populations, possibly because of the influx of European DNA over a period of centuries, or in the original founding of their communities in Europe. Both Esau and David are described in the Bible as red-haired. In European culture, prior to the 20th century, red hair was often seen as a stereotypically Jewish trait: during the Spanish Inquisition, all those with red hair were identified as Jewish.In Italy, red hair was associated with Italian Jews, and Judas was traditionally depicted as red-haired in Italian and Spanish art.Writers from Shakespeare to Dickens would identify Jewish characters by giving them red hair. The stereotype that red hair is Jewish remains in parts of Eastern Europe and Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair



We have some Russian ancestry. That's likely where the red-headed genes came from.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Victoria
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815

But you know, vitamin D from hair? That's not natural and my body knows it.


Actually, the vitamin D3 does not come from hair, it is from the wool wax, which coats the wool.  It is a similar texture to shea butter.  



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Mayflowers
Thursday, February 7, 2013, 12:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Victoria


Actually, the vitamin D3 does not come from hair, it is from the wool wax, which coats the wool.  It is a similar texture to shea butter.  


eww. Whatever it is, my body doesn't recognize it as food.
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BluesSinger
Thursday, February 7, 2013, 4:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Good Lord.. we are only taking 2000 iu per day.  Should we up it to 5000 iu?
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cindyt
Thursday, February 7, 2013, 4:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It took me five years to get my Vitamin D level over 50.  I gradually increased the daily dose to 8000 I.U.'s to get it there.  I also switched to Bio D Mulsion Forte, a liquid.  Each drop has 2000 IU's. I seem to absorb it better than the kind in capsules.
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Mayflowers
Thursday, February 7, 2013, 1:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from cindyt
It took me five years to get my Vitamin D level over 50.  I gradually increased the daily dose to 8000 I.U.'s to get it there.  I also switched to Bio D Mulsion Forte, a liquid.  Each drop has 2000 IU's. I seem to absorb it better than the kind in capsules.


I was taking 2,000 a day and my level dropped...   I was confused? But I had switched from taking my D with dinner to breakfast because of Dr. Oz's recommendation and that didn't work. I went back to taking it with dinner. I also take magnesium and multi minerals with dinner so I think that really helps absorption.  It was at 40 then I dropped to 38.   I'm due for a check.  I'd be happy to have my levels in the 50's.   Dr. Oz said the D level should be at least 50.  I don't know what Dr. D thinks. He never said what he thought the levels should be, but he recommends 4,000 ius a day according to his bottle of D that NAP sells.
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Monika
Thursday, February 7, 2013, 3:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I still wonder why all of the sudden regular MDs are so concerned with the low vitamin D levels. They don't seem to so concerned with other vitamins and mineral deficiencies.


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Spring
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Quoted from Monika
I still wonder why all of the sudden regular MDs are so concerned with the low vitamin D levels. They don't seem to so concerned with other vitamins and mineral deficiencies.


I think it is because drug companies figured out a way to produce a Vitamin D supplement that had to have a prescription, and, guess what? That is the one most doctors are prescribing! Grrrrr! The magic 50,000 == $$$$$$$$$ !! I'm beginning to wonder about the low numbers these labs are producing too............


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
Thursday, February 7, 2013, 9:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Monika
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Quoted from Spring


I think it is because drug companies figured out a way to produce a Vitamin D supplement that had to have a prescription, and, guess what? That is the one most doctors are prescribing! Grrrrr! The magic 50,000 == $$$$$$$$$ !! I'm beginning to wonder about the low numbers these labs are producing too............


I bet you are right! It is amazing power of $$$$$$$$$


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Drea
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I got my Vit D results back today.My doctor said "Your Vit D levels rose and are now normal, although in the lower end." Yes, technically, 31 is higher than 28, but !

Last September, my levels of D2/D3 combined were at 28 after taking Superior Source D3 5000 IUs a day for a year. In September I switched to Dr. D's D supp and am taking 4000 IUs a day. My level rose 3 points in 4 months.

The doctor agreed to write a prescription for 50000 IUs of Vit D to be taken once a week for 8 weeks and then we will retest. Not sure what else to do at this point.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Spring
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Quoted from Drea
The doctor agreed to write a prescription for 50000 IUs of Vit D to be taken once a week for 8 weeks and then we will retest. Not sure what else to do at this point.

Well, I wish you had these that my doctor prescribed for me if you plan to have the script filled. The tablets appeared very cheaply made with rough edges. I was very nauseated and felt terrible after I took one of them and decided that I would take Dr. D.'s instead. Soon I will be getting more sun.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Drea
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I get a lot of sun; that's not my problem...not sure what my problem is, though.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Spring
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Quoted from Drea
I get a lot of sun; that's not my problem...not sure what my problem is, though.


Yes, I guessed that you got plenty of sun. This Vitamin D conundrum is something I never expected to be worried about! Whether my level is getting higher or not, I definitely feel better. I'm taking 35,000 IU's per week.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Mayflowers
Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 3:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Drea
The doctor agreed to write a prescription for 50000 IUs of Vit D to be taken once a week for 8 weeks and then we will retest. Not sure what else to do at this point.


I would recommend taking it (if not already) with the biggest meal..usually dinner and also taking magnesium and a multi mineral with it because it helps absorption.  

My levels dropped taking D in the morning! When I switched back to dinner they went back up. I have to get mine tested maybe this weekend..

You might need 10,000 ius not 4,000. Try taking 4 capsules a day for a couple of months. You just might need more than the average bear.
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Mayflowers
Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Drea
I get a lot of sun; that's not my problem...not sure what my problem is, though.


Do you wear sunscreen?
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Mayflowers
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Quoted from Spring

Well, I wish you had these that my doctor prescribed for me if you plan to have the script filled. The tablets appeared very cheaply made with rough edges..


My Rx for D was a small liquid gel cap. They didn't bother me at all and I'm sensitive.
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Spring
Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 4:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I had a bad headache (which I hardly ever, ever have) and was nauseated for five days after taking the first tablet. I DO NOT want to feel like I'm pregnant again at my age!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
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Dr John Cannell surprised me by saying that it makes no difference when
you take D or if you take it with fat or not.

Does it matter how you take vitamin D?
Posted on November 8, 2011 by John Cannell, MD
I get many letters about vitamin D absorption. “Should I take it with food?” “It is a fat soluble vitamin, so shouldn’t I take it with fat?” “Should I take it with a meal?” “Is it absorbed if I take it on an empty stomach?”

The answer to these questions is generally that it does not matter. Vitamin D is passively absorbed in the lower part of the small intestine (the jejunum and ileum), at least in rats. Surprisingly, one study found that absorption with a very high fat diet decreased vitamin D absorption in rats by 30%.


To date, studies are conflicting of whether or not certain practices help absorb vitamin D better than others.

One human study of 25,000 IU as a single dose found that absorption was the same if scientists gave it with corn oil, whole milk, or fat free milk. Another study found that absorption of the powdered version was the same as vitamin D in oil. Another found vitamin D in oil was better than powdered but the difference between absorption rates was minuscule.

The latest addition to absorption studies came out of Tufts University in Boston. The authors, led by Dr. Sathit Niramitmahapanya, found that monounsaturated fats, like those found in beef and some oils, especially olive oil, was associated with better (that’s right better) absorption than vitamin D given with fish oils, but again the differences were not striking.

Niramitmahapanya S, Harris SS, Dawson-Hughes B. Type of dietary fat is associated with the 25-hydroxyvitamin d3 increment in response to vitamin d supplementation. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2011 Oct;96(10):3170-4.

The fact is that the studies are so conflicting, and the 25(OH)D measurement techniques are so variable, that it simply does not matter if you take vitamin D in oil or as a powder, it does not matter if you take food with your vitamin D, or on an empty stomach. What matter is that you take enough so that you obtain vitamin D levels of 50 -60 ng/ml. This means you are no longer suffering from substrate starvation (your vitamin D system has all the vitamin D it needs for all of its many uses and is beginning to store some vitamin D for the future).

Remember, if you have trouble getting your doctor to order the test, or if your insurance does not pay for it, or if your co-pays and deductibles are too high, or if your doctor keeps saying 600 IU/day is enough, or if he says levels of 30 ng/ml is fine, the Vitamin D Council has an in-home vitamin D testing service. You can measure your vitamin D levels at home via ZRT’s finger prick test that requires a little blood on a blotter paper. See our “Am I vitamin D deficient?” page to find out more about the in-home vitamin D test.


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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 6:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chloe- my guess is that it's all about individuality. Clearly, taking the D with a large meal made a huge impact on Mayflowers. For other individuals it may not make much of a difference. I wonder if the rats on a high-fat diet fared worse simply because rats don't fare well on high-fat diets. Perhaps some of the D was being excreted in the stool with some undigested fat. And there are many factors at play with that "single high dose" study- were the patients fasting when they took the dose with skim milk or were they absorbing it via fat already in their stomachs?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Mayflowers
Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 7:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
Dr John Cannell surprised me by saying that it makes no difference when
you take D or if you take it with fat or not


I don't agree. It's individual. For me dinner was the time to take it. I had the proof! I was taking it with breakfast and then got tested and my level dropped.
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Drea
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Quoted from 815


Do you wear sunscreen?


Not usually, though I know I should.



It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Chloe
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Quoted from 815


I don't agree. It's individual. For me dinner was the time to take it. I had the proof! I was taking it with breakfast and then got tested and my level dropped.


I happen to agree with you...I take my D with a meal that contains fat and I believe my level is
high because of that.

BUT....

My surprise was that Dr. Cannell said it doesn't matter when this man is THE top vitamin D researcher and he has created the Vitamin D Council.  I would just like to believe everything he
says....but honestly, I dunno...
  



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Mayflowers
Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 12:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Drea
Not usually, though I know I should.


Well the skin needs about 30 mins of exposure to make vitamin D and they also said that's with a tank top and shorts on exposing a lot of skin.  I don't wear sunscreen unless I'm at the shore in the sun for hours..then I use Banana Boat for kids. It seems to be one of the few that I don't break out in a rash from. You should have seen my thighs in the Bahamas. I put on Ban DeSole and my skin had a reaction to it with the sun and I had a really bad rash ...sort of ruined my vacation. I had to keep my legs out of the sun until the rash totally cleared up or it would burn horribly.
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Drea
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Just took my first dose after fried eggs in ghee and turkey bacon...this script is a green gel cap...for what it's worth...I'll inform of any reactions...


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Drea
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Zero reaction...whoohoo! Life goes on...


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Mayflowers
Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe

I happen to agree with you...I take my D with a meal that contains fat and I believe my level is
high because of that.


Oh. Ok I didn't quite understand what you meant. I don't know if it's a "meal containing fat" or a larger meal that makes the difference?  All my meals contain fat.  
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Mayflowers
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Quoted from Drea
Zero reaction...whoohoo! Life goes on...


Yeah, that sounds like the gel cap I took. I had no reaction to it. Didn't even make me nauseous.
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Chloe
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Quoted from 815


Oh. Ok I didn't quite understand what you meant. I don't know if it's a "meal containing fat" or a larger meal that makes the difference?  All my meals contain fat.  


I would just think the meals that contain fat would help to absorb a fat soluble vitamin.  And most
of my meals contain some fat too.  Just something like eggs for breakfast cooked in ghee/EVOO
might be more fat than maybe my lunch which could be a bean soup and salad/fruit.

Glad you didn't have a negative reaction, Drea....



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Drea
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I haven't been continuing to take the 4000 IUs of NAPs Vit D now that I'm on the mega dose regimen, but I'm wondering if I should???


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Spring
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Quoted from Drea
I haven't been continuing to take the 4000 IUs of NAPs Vit D now that I'm on the mega dose regimen, but I'm wondering if I should???


From what I understand, if we don't have Vitamin K, etc., which is in the D 2000, we run the risk of the vitamin D settling in our soft tissue - including the brain. All this is part of the reason I switched back to the NAP/DPN Vit. D. I don't need anything clogging up my brain!! Maybe you have already done some research about the relationship of Vitamin K and D, but if you haven't, I would do that if I were you. Of course, Dr. D. already had that figured out! Some days we may get plenty of Vitamin K and some days we may not. Who knows how much the stuff we buy at the grocery has in it anyway?! Just thought I would mention this....


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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yaeli
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Quoted from Spring


From what I understand, if we don't have Vitamin K, etc., which is in the D 2000, we run the risk of the vitamin D settling in our soft tissue - including the brain. All this is part of the reason I switched back to the NAP/DPN Vit. D. I don't need anything clogging up my brain!! Maybe you have already done some research about the relationship of Vitamin K and D, but if you haven't, I would do that if I were you. Of course, Dr. D. already had that figured out! Some days we may get plenty of Vitamin K and some days we may not. Who knows how much the stuff we buy at the grocery has in it anyway?! Just thought I would mention this....
Thanks for the recommendation/reminder. I read the description and am going to order it soon. I'm curious what difference it makes in my mood, I have a hunch there's going to be some.... Or am I aiming too far?

Right now I take 2000 IU daily in 1000 IU drops which contain few additives, and which I've intended to replace anyway.



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Mayflowers
Monday, February 18, 2013, 1:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Spring

From what I understand, if we don't have Vitamin K, etc., which is in the D 2000, we run the risk of the vitamin D settling in our soft tissue - including the brain...


Where did you read that? I never heard of that!  
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Spring
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Well, we didn't hear until a little while ago that nearly everyone is deficient in Vitamin D, either, so it is no wonder that you haven't read about the need for making sure Vitamin K is adequate! Mostly, what we've heard about Vitamin K is that people taking poisons from the drug company need to be careful about their consumption of the vegetables that are high in it!

But there is plenty going on about this relationship. For instance, I didn't know there were several different forms of Vitamin K. Dr. Mercola has gotten into the "dance," as he calls it, but he does have some good references, and his article is easy to read: http://articles.mercola.com/si.....itamins-d-and-k.aspx I will furnish some more references when I have time - hopefully, later today.


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Spring
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Vitamin K-dependent proteins in the body act as potent inhibitors of vascular calcification. So adequate vitamin K will help to ensure calcium ends up in bone where it belongs, instead of calcifying various soft tissues.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cofactors/vitamin-k/

http://www.spineuniverse.com/conditions/osteoporosis/osteoporosis-vitamin-d-vitamin-k

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=112


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Chloe
Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 4:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
Vitamin K-dependent proteins in the body act as potent inhibitors of vascular calcification. So adequate vitamin K will help to ensure calcium ends up in bone where it belongs, instead of calcifying various soft tissues.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cofactors/vitamin-k/

http://www.spineuniverse.com/conditions/osteoporosis/osteoporosis-vitamin-d-vitamin-k

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=112


Thanks for sharing these links, Spring  ...I always believed taking a lot of vitamin D without at least eating a lot of high vitamin K foods  (if not supplementing with K)  could prove to be dangerous. Dr. D's phyto D has 25 mcg of K to 2,000 iu of D. I'm quite sure this is the proper ratio of D to K and anyone taking D alone might want to up their intake of greens.

Here's a list of some of the highest vitamin K foods.
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/food-sources-of-vitamin-k.php
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=112

Makes me understand why I'm always craving brussels sprouts.  High in vit. K.


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Quoted from Chloe
Makes me understand why I'm always craving brussels sprouts.  High in vit. K.


And it has certainly made sense to me that I have been craving two big salads a day since I first upped my Vitamin D intake a few months ago (this was before the doctor prescribed the 50,000 IUs.). This is sort of a scary business to me that doctors will prescribe 50,000 IU's of Vitamin D in one dose!! That is why I began to do some research about it. No way under the sun will I take that much again at one time! My head pounded and I felt horrible all over.

On the other hand, I hate to think what kinds of problems people on coumadin are developing because of having to be careful of too much Vitamin K! Just a thought, but I wonder if calcium channel blockers could be replaced with Vitamin K. Makes sense to me! After all, they give CCB's for headaches!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Quoted from Spring


And it has certainly made sense to me that I have been craving two big salads a day since I first upped my Vitamin D intake a few months ago (this was before the doctor prescribed the 50,000 IUs.). This is sort of a scary business to me that doctors will prescribe 50,000 IU's of Vitamin D in one dose!! That is why I began to do some research about it. No way under the sun will I take that much again at one time! My head pounded and I felt horrible all over.

On the other hand, I hate to think what kinds of problems people on coumadin are developing because of having to be careful of too much Vitamin K! Just a thought, but I wonder if calcium channel blockers could be replaced with Vitamin K. Makes sense to me! After all, they give CCB's for headaches!


Lots of good logic....  I am in total agreement!



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Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I think I'll just start eating more broccoli again instead of taking a supplement.  Broccoli is very high in K. I had to limit it's consumption when I was on coumadin.
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I just took a look at that list of high  vitamin K foods- between spinach, broccoli, parsley, and the green beverages I have (red raspberry leaf and/or nettle tea daily) I think I'm getting enough vitamin K.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Spring
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Quoted from 815
I think I'll just start eating more broccoli again instead of taking a supplement.  Broccoli is very high in K. I had to limit it's consumption when I was on coumadin.


Sounds like a good plan to me! I eat a lot of broccoli.


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I eat those green food high in Vit K on a regular basis, though I still bruise easily, which is an indicator (according to the second link Chloe posted) that I need more. I've always bruised easily, so that has nothing to do with the high doses of Vit D I'm currently taking.

I just wanna feel better, overall!


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Spring
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Quoted from Drea
I eat those green food high in Vit K on a regular basis, though I still bruise easily, which is an indicator (according to the second link Chloe posted) that I need more. I've always bruised easily, so that has nothing to do with the high doses of Vit D I'm currently taking.

I just wanna feel better, overall!


If I even remotely bruised easily, I would supplement Vitamin K. In my opinion, there is something really strange about the Vitamin K, Vitamin D and calcium/magnesium problem in this country. Even among people like us who have been eating basically a good diet our entire lives!! And it is more than strange that we have this astronomical problem with bone density here even compared to some of the poorest countries in the world. Something is very wrong! The country got sold on fluoride that was supposed to strengthen our bones. What's up with that? Right now I am drinking spring water.....


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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From Dr. John Cannell, Vitamin D council

Notice our vitamin K needs INCREASE with age.  Women need 90 mcg of K per day.  Dr. D's Phyto D contains 25 mcg.   Somehow we've got to eat 65 mcg worth of vitamin K foods
every day if we take one Phyto D.  And if taking a D without any K....then we have to get all of our
K from diet.


Supplementary vitamin K
Cheese is a great source for vitamin K2 MK-7, with Swiss Cheese having the highest amount.
Daily needs
Unlike other fat-soluble nutrients, vitamin K is not stored in the body and must be received daily through diet or supplementation. In fact, research indicates one can become deficient in vitamin K in as little as 7 days.

In 2000 the National Academy of Sciences established the following Adequate Intake (AI) levels for vitamin K:

Children under 1 years: 2- 2.5 mcg
Children 1-3 years: 30 mcg
Children 4-13 years: 55-60 mcg
Adolescents 14-18 years: 75 mcg
Adult males: 120 mcg
Adult females: 90 mcg
Pregnant or lactating females: 75-90 mcg
Vitamin K needs increase with age. Older individuals will require larger amounts of vitamin K than will younger adults.

Due to increasing awareness of vitamin K's beneficial health effects, many scientists are now suggesting the recommended intake be increased.

Which vitamin K should I use?
While research indicates both vitamin K1 and K2 have beneficial actions in the body, it is vitamin K2 that is indicated as a necessary co-factor for vitamin D. However, the jury is still out as to the various actions by MK-4 and MK-7 in the body, and which one, if either, is more essential to health.

Vitamin K deficiency
Just as most people get only enough vitamin D to provide protection against rickets and not the more serious conditions vitamin D can protect against, most people get enough K to maintain adequate blood clotting, but not enough to confer protection against conditions such as arterial calcification.

Vitamin K deficiency symptoms
easy bruising
nosebleeds
bleeding gums
blood in the urine and stools
extremely heavy menstrual bleeding
Vitamin K1 insufficiency in bone has been shown to increase risk of vertebral fracture independently from BMD.

Lack of sufficient vitamin K2, can cause the cells lining blood vessel walls to act like bone cells, i.e., absorb calcium.

Vitamin K toxicity
No adverse effects have been reported for vitamin K - whether from food or supplements - and so there are no documented toxicity symptoms. There currently is no Upper Limit established for vitamin K.

Contraindications
It is generally recommended to avoid vitamin K altogether when using blood-thinning drugs such as Warfarin or Coumadin. However, studies have found vitamin K2 to be an effective stabilizer in anticoagulant therapy, proving beneficial in situations of over-anticoagulation or when the response to therapy has been variable.


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Spring
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Yes, I read that, and that is one of the reasons I am wondering about a lot of things... WHY are we apparently NOT getting what we need from food when we are stuffing ourselves with the right ones???!!! I think we are going to have to resort to supplementation because I don't have a whole lot of confidence in what our foods actually contain these days. I know for a fact that the nutrients of foods have drastically diminished in the last years from what they were some years ago. When was the last time they actually checked the food values? Ten years ago? Were they using organically grown foods or the chemically grown for the testing? Most of us are trying to eat organically grown foods, but what is happening? There is no question that something is wrong somewhere..... We shouldn't have to bathe in magnesium to get what we need or take a multitude of pills to keep our bones strong when the poorest of the poor have better bones than we do!


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Chloe
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I was able to easily raise my D level with pills....Only it bothers me thinking I might not have had
enough K at the same time when I was taking D independently and unaware of the consequences
of K deficiency.  Hate to think that any calcium I was absorbing from foods was being dragged into arteries instead of going to bone..Is it possible doctors writing scripts for high D have no clue about the necessity for vitamin K?  What am I even asking....of course most doctors wouldn't know.

I'n not sure if the poorest of poor have such great bones.  Who is doing bone density testing on them? Not even sure their D is measured.  I just think some of them are so morbidly obese from
eating fast food that the weight bearing effects of carrying their bodies around has prevented bone
wasting.  Sometimes being on the thin side is a disadvantage. It's why I like rebounding....that
bouncing jars my body just enough to give me a weight bearing effect.


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Mayflowers
Wednesday, February 20, 2013, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Drea
I eat those green food high in Vit K on a regular basis, though I still bruise easily, !


Brusing easily is a sign of vitamin C deficiency. I don't know how K got involved?  
How much C do you take a day? I take about 1,000mg a day.
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Mayflowers
Wednesday, February 20, 2013, 8:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
I was able to easily raise my D level with pills....Only it bothers me thinking I might not have had
enough K at the same time when I was taking D independently and unaware of the consequences
of K deficiency.  Hate to think that any calcium I was absorbing from foods was being dragged into arteries instead of going to bone...


I doubt you would have trouble. You eat very well. You eat a lot of green vegetables. I had cut back on  broccoli and was eating  more cauliflower but I'm going to eat more broccoli now. I don't like cauliflower anyway and it's a diamond.    I just find myself gagging it down all the time..
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Quoted from Chloe
has prevented bone
wasting.  Sometimes being on the thin side is a disadvantage. It's why I like rebounding....that
bouncing jars my body just enough to give me a weight bearing effect.


That's why I like my total gym. Resistance training builds bone. Plus I can row on it and that keeps the back strong so I won't hunch over.  I was reading that hunching over wasn't caused by osteoporosis. They think it's from muscle wasting away with age in the back. Use it or lose it!
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Quoted from 815


I doubt you would have trouble. You eat very well. You eat a lot of green vegetables. I had cut back on  broccoli and was eating  more cauliflower but I'm going to eat more broccoli now. I don't like cauliflower anyway and it's a diamond.    I just find myself gagging it down all the time..


I'm not someone who likes cauliflower either but a friend who used to be a caterer taught me a way to
make it where it actually tastes good.  You cut the cauliflower into flowerettes...and rinse with water..
strain out water and place into a bowl.  Add enough EVOO and toss cauliflower around a bit so herbs will stick.  I generally like to use Italian seasonings....and just add sea salt to taste.  And then
it goes onto a sheet pan and baked/roasted at 350 for about 35-40 minutes, checking halfway
and flipping pieces over.  Although it's good hot, it's just as good cold as a salad-like ingredient.
Or sometimes I just add cold cooked tofu and other veggies to this.  My husband who would not
eat cauliflower, even if I offered to let him have a major cheat meal ate almost an entire cauliflower
by himself when cooked this way.  Not saying you're going to love cauliflower after this but you
might at least be able to eat it without gagging.  The smell of it boiling makes me gag...but roasting
is another story.



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Spring
Wednesday, February 20, 2013, 10:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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For some reason cauliflower is an avoid for me..... And, yes, Mayflowers, bruising is a symptom of Vitamin K deficiency. It definitely is "involved!"


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
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Quoted from Chloe
I was able to easily raise my D level with pills....Only it bothers me thinking I might not have had enough K at the same time when I was taking D independently and unaware of the consequences of K deficiency.  

I don't think you have anything to worry about at all. Your BDT wouldn't be normal if your Vitamin K was too low. Obviously my 'K had been low for some time or I wouldn't have had osteopenia. It happened before I was on the diets. It has gotten a tad better since then. But I had my 'D checked at the end of the summer so you would think that it would have been better than 23 since I am outside a LOT in the summer, plus I had upped my supplement! Strange....

I remember a boy from a poor family in my class when we were in elementary school who had a severe break in his leg simply from dropping about a foot and a half from a chinning bar. The teachers were feeling so badly about it because they were certain it was caused from malnutrition. I've had some pretty bad falls working in the yard several times, but, (knock on all the wood in the house!) I have never broken a bone in my life.


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Drea
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Quoted from 815


Brusing easily is a sign of vitamin C deficiency. I don't know how K got involved?  
How much C do you take a day? I take about 1,000mg a day.


I take 1000 mg daily in pill form, then the rest from food (i.e. lemon juice, grapefruit juice)


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Spring
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Quoted from Drea
I take 1000 mg daily in pill form, then the rest from food (i.e. lemon juice, grapefruit juice)

Drea, I've been reading reviews written by people whose doctors have put them on Vitamin K for the very reason we are discussing here. I find that WE are 'way behind the curve on this one! I am taking the plunge as soon as I can get some and will let you know if I have the surge in wonderful feelings these people are having. They also say that their skin is improving dramatically!! Sounds good to me!!


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Victoria
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I also associate bruising with a need for vitamin C, and also bioflavanoids.  When I used to take ascorbic acid, I would still bruise, but when I switched to food-sourced vitamin C, such as amla or camu, the bruising stopped.



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Spring
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I associate a need for both Vitamin C and Vitamin K for bruising and have for years.


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Spring
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K
This is an interesting page about protein foods that contain K2 which is the one we need to be the most concerned about for our hearts and bones.


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I have been taking NAPs Vit D since September, though I'm not currently taking it while I'm on the mega-dose script...My Vit C is a high quality (not ascorbate)...anyway, my original question was should I continue to take the NAP Vit D supp (which has K) while I'm also taking the mega dose? I think I will, because 2000 more IUs on top of 50,000 IUs isn't going to make a huge difference...


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Quoted from Drea
I have been taking NAPs Vit D since September, though I'm not currently taking it while I'm on the mega-dose script...My Vit C is a high quality (not ascorbate)...anyway, my original question was should I continue to take the NAP Vit D supp (which has K) while I'm also taking the mega dose? I think I will, because 2000 more IUs on top of 50,000 IUs isn't going to make a huge difference...


I would continue with Phyto D because your logic makes sense....what's 2,000 more D in
relation to your prescription dose of D..... but realize it's still way too low in the total K you'd
need to meet daily requirements.



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Spring
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Quoted from Drea
I have been taking NAPs Vit D since September, though I'm not currently taking it while I'm on the mega-dose script...My Vit C is a high quality (not ascorbate)...anyway, my original question was should I continue to take the NAP Vit D supp (which has K) while I'm also taking the mega dose? I think I will, because 2000 more IUs on top of 50,000 IUs isn't going to make a huge difference...

I quit taking the 50,000 D and am taking a total of 35,000 per week in my NAP sup and what is in my calcium/mineral/D3 sup. But with this Vitamin K2 information, I don't think we need all that Vitamin D, what we need is a balance with K2. I'm beginning to see that this lack is what makes our skin age (spidery veins and rash-like redness) besides the other problems we may have with bones, etc. I had no idea there was such a ton of information about this on the internet. It seems that every Tom, Dick and Harry knew more about it than we do.  And it isn't a lack of K1 that comes from the veggies we eat that is the problem, it is the K2. Natto is extremely high in it, but it is a black dot for me, and I'm not sure I could eat the stuff anyway! And I'm not sure it would be an avoid for me in a supplement or not. Most of them are made from natto. So it is a conundrum, for sure, to know what to do. If you can have natto, I would get a supplement and add it to your regimen. And monitor how you feel.
     Oh, and the link I provided earlier for sources of K2 in proteins is enlightening too. Sometimes K1 can be converted to K2, but it seems that many people are having a problem with that.


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Mayflowers
Thursday, February 21, 2013, 4:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Drea


I take 1000 mg daily in pill form, then the rest from food (i.e. lemon juice, grapefruit juice)


Are you sure you are absorbing the C?  I was taking a brand that I wasn't even absorbing.I think the brand was Windmill vitamin C and you can only get it in a pharmacy.     I didn't realize it until I kept having sinus, gum and UTI issues and then it hit me and I switched to Solaray and the problems cleared up.  
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Mayflowers
Thursday, February 21, 2013, 4:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Spring
I associate a need for both Vitamin C and Vitamin K for bruising and have for years.


Well I've had broccoli two days in a row. It tastes a lot better than cauliflower..!!
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Mayflowers
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Quoted from Chloe

I'm not someone who likes cauliflower either but a friend who used to be a caterer taught me a way to
make it where it actually tastes good.  You cut the cauliflower into flowerettes...and rinse with water..
strain out water and place into a bowl.  Add enough EVOO and toss cauliflower around a bit so herbs will stick.  I generally like to use Italian seasonings....and just add sea salt to taste.


Thanks.. I've tried it roasted like that ...eh.  One way I liked was a recipe from the Frugal Gourmet which was Greek style.  I'm trying to remember it.  The whole head is rinsed then drizzeled with EVOO and then sprinkled with salt and pepper and fresh chopped parsely.. I think that's it. That is similar but with just fresh parsely. It's good that way too.  You'd just bake the whole head.  Wait! I think you add fresh lemon juice too..! Before baking.

Here's another one. We can just leave out the bread crumbs.
http://www.mommysavers.com/frugal-gourmet-roasted-cauliflower-with-pine-nuts-and-parmesan/
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Chloe
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Quoted from 815


Thanks.. I've tried it roasted like that ...eh.  One way I liked was a recipe from the Frugal Gourmet which was Greek style.  I'm trying to remember it.  The whole head is rinsed then drizzeled with EVOO and then sprinkled with salt and pepper and fresh chopped parsely.. I think that's it. That is similar but with just fresh parsely. It's good that way too.  You'd just bake the whole head.  Wait! I think you add fresh lemon juice too..! Before baking.

Here's another one. We can just leave out the bread crumbs.
http://www.mommysavers.com/frugal-gourmet-roasted-cauliflower-with-pine-nuts-and-parmesan/


The whole head is roasted?  That would put the flavor on the outside flowerettes but leave the inside tasteless, I think....but your second recipe sounds yummy...Definitely going to try that
one.  I've made bread crumbs from GF bread...or the HFS sells brown rice bread crumbs. And
I love pine nuts.  Good one~  




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Mayflowers
Thursday, February 21, 2013, 7:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
The whole head is roasted?  That would put the flavor on the outside flowerettes but leave the inside tasteless, I think


You would think that but I did not find that to be the case     I guess I could use GF bread crumbs but it will raise the GI.
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Quoted from 815


You would think that but I did not find that to be the case     I guess I could use GF bread crumbs but it will raise the GI.
  

Sounds so easy....going to try it.......Do you have more info?  Temperature and time?
Uncovered pan, right?  



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Mayflowers
Friday, February 22, 2013, 12:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
  Sounds so easy....going to try it.......Do you have more info?  Temperature and time?
Uncovered pan, right?


I'll try to find the recipe.but I think it's 350 in a uncovered dish and not sure of the time...
...hour?
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Chloe
Friday, February 22, 2013, 4:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


I'll try to find the recipe.but I think it's 350 in a uncovered dish and not sure of the time...
...hour?


Thanks, I think I can gauge the cooking time just knowing the temperature and the fact that the
baking dish remains uncovered.

Sorry, this is SO off topic but this morning, I baked a whole kombucha squash by poking holes in the top of it, wrapping it in foil, putting it in the oven and just letting it steam from the inside out. Set oven to 350 and after about 45 minutes, it was perfectly cooked. I was then able to cut it in half, scoop out the seeds, let it cool and scrape off squash from the skin.. I love the idea of baking vegetables.  I just could not cut that thick skinned squash in half. A perfect solution for
people who love squash but can't cut into them.

OK, getting back on track to vitamin D discussions.    MF Have you had your D level tested since
you're using the Blue Bonnet brand?  That's the formula that originally got me up to a good level.
I'm now using Dr. D's Phyto D but supplementing occasionally with additional D because I do not think 2,000 iu is enough.  But taking it for the K and because it's on my shift prescription.



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Mayflowers
Friday, February 22, 2013, 8:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe

OK, getting back on track to vitamin D discussions.    MF Have you had your D level tested since
you're using the Blue Bonnet brand?  That's the formula that originally got me up to a good level.
I'm now using Dr. D's Phyto D but supplementing occasionally with additional D because I do not think 2,000 iu is enough.  But taking it for the K and because it's on my shift prescription.


No I haven't gone yet. I keep putting it off.. I'll make myself go next week.  If you take Dr. D's Phyto D then he recommends 2 caps a day. That's 4,000 ius. That should be enough?  I took 2,000 ius of another brand, maybe it was Now? My levels dropped.  I'm currently taking 5,000 ius of GNC brand and not having any reaction..so I'm suspicious that I'm absorbing it at all.     I bought Country Life magnesium to take with it and they didn't have the Now brand I like and this brand has silica in it and I think it was disrupting my sleep..I hate when I can't get my brand..
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Spring
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a review written by someone taking Vitamin K2:
"I had been taking this supplement for a couple of months, daily, and my only discernible improvement so far was the two sebaceous cysts in both my forearms, which was slowly shrinking in size. I had a cyst a few years back, which slowly grew to about the size of a soaked chickpea. This was excised because it interfered with my writing, and it cost me $400 in medical fee. Now, I have two cysts slowly developing in both forearms, and needless to say, I was thinking of the medical fee that I would need to pay again, since the cysts are again growing around the same area of the previous one!! The right cyst had now decreased in size to almost negligible (it was small to start with), but the one on the left, which was again the size of a chickpea, had now shrunk to about half its size. I don't know if it is the vitamin K2's efficacy, but I was not doing anything different lately. My friend, who started roughly a bit later than me, has a heart murmur, and next year, she will be tested again, and will let me know if there is a definitive improvement in her heart condition. Then, only then, can I give Vitamin K2 a five star rating."


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 5:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I finally ran down a recommendation for the amount we need to be taking with our Vitamin D3 -- 100 IU's K2 for every 1,000 IU's of V. D3. The Jarrow brand is highly recommended and a lot of doctors and other health field personnel are recommending this one to people according to their reviews. I do wish NAP had it.   I think I am going to order the 100 IU size and hope for the best, unless they tell me something differently at NAP/DPN.

We need a good cow on this forum. We could feed it nice, young grass, churn the milk, make butter, make ghee and have a wonderful source of K2! Yummmm! A really wonderful, virtual cow!!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Dianne
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 1:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Great info Spring. I like Jarrow products. I will order some next week. A medical doctor that I see on occasion was happy to note that I take 7,000 i. units of vit D daily. He said that was a good amount and that people were not taking enough of it. Next time I see him, I'll mention about the Vit K2. He is always open to learning, even from his clients.  
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Mayflowers
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 2:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Spring
This is a review written by someone taking Vitamin K2, ."

That person probably only needed to stop eating oranges, bananas and coconuts to get rid of the cysts instead of taking K.  Those fruits cause abnormal growths according to Dr. D.
I think the right amount of K to D is in the Phyto D formula. I'd go with that. It even has strontium in it!
Jarrow is a good brand but the dosage might be too high.
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Dianne
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 2:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815

That person probably only needed to stop eating oranges, bananas and coconuts to get rid of the cysts instead of taking K.  Those fruits cause abnormal growths according to Dr. D.
I think the right amount of K to D is in the Phyto D formula. I'd go with that. It even has strontium in it!
Jarrow is a good brand but the dosage might be too high.


Mayflowers - Is this information about the above fruit applicable to Type O's? I get banana as a diamond but rarely eat it, as according to TCM I have a damp constitution and it aggravates it. I've noticed that in the summer when it is hot, then I can tolerate a few bananas a week. And I do have a cyst on my back that hasn't acted up for a few years and this week it is aggravated and the only thing that I did was quit drinking Kombucha for 4 days!?! Thanks.  
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Mayflowers
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 3:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dianne

Mayflowers - Is this information about the above fruit applicable to Type O's? I get banana as a diamond but rarely eat it, as according to TCM I have a damp constitution and it aggravates it. I've noticed that in the summer when it is hot, then I can tolerate a few bananas a week. And I do have a cyst on my back that hasn't acted up for a few years and this week it is aggravated and the only thing that I did was quit drinking Kombucha for 4 days!?! Thanks.  


Hi Dianne..My name is Dian too   Well it's Diana but everyone calls me Dian. I was at one of Dr. D's lectures in CT when he said that. He did not specify any blood type. I myself have lemons as a diamond but I can't drink lemon water in the morning because I have a ctirus allergy. I get pain in my stomach.. I think it's individual.  I don't know how rarely is rarely? If once a year is rarely then it may not be bothering you. What about oranges?  I grew up on orange juice and I ate oranges and I didn't know I had a citrus allergy and I had constant migraines and skin eruptions..until I stopped oranges which I did before I found the BTD and saw that they were an avoid for A's.  This AB that I knew had fibroids growing and pressing on her bladder causing UTI like pain. I told her to stop eating bananas and she thought I was nuts. She finally stopped eating bananas for a few weeks and her pain stopped.
Amazing that food can cause these things huh? Mainstream Allopaths would have you believe that food has nothing to do with it..so you'll pay them money for drugs that cover up the symptoms.    
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Sunday, February 24, 2013, 4:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank  Dian - - I've never been too partial to oranges or orange juice and surprisingly when I re-ran my SWAMI with the change in one of my fingerprints becoming more legible, it gave me oranges and orange juice and a whole bunch of other things shifted. But...I may on a very rare occasion have an orange and see what gives. A few time in the past, I have strangely craved oranges, had 4-5 in the course of a few days and then it passes. I enjoy them thoroughly, they sit well but who knows now that I've been following SWAMI for 18 months what my reaction will be.

And...being so reactive, I have to plan my 'bodily experiments' well to ensure there is nothing on the social calendar in case of a bad reaction! Thanks for such a speedy reply!  
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Chloe
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 5:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr. Cannell from the vitamin D council created his own D supplement sold by Purity Products

Here's the breakdown of the formula

2 capsules equal

D 5,000 iu
K 80 mcg
Magnesium 125 mg
zinc 10 mg

Then it says D co-factor proprietary blend 132 mg
l taurine
quercetin
boron

So, I'm thinking the ratio of 1,000 iu of D to 100 mcg of K might be a bit off..

Phyto D only has 25 mcg to 2,000 iu of D but the K is called phytonadione

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/phytonadione

And this type of K might be totally unlike what's being put into other formulas.  This appears to be K1

K1 and K2 have different purposes in the body
http://blogs.webmd.com/integra.....or-bone-density.html

Different types of K and their purpose (came from Mercola's site but of course, Mercola gets his info from
many sources on the internet, so although how each functions in the body would likely be factual, his personal opinion is to take K2)

Vitamin K1, or phylloquinone, is found naturally in plants, especially green vegetables; K1 goes directly to your liver and helps you maintain healthy blood clotting

Vitamin K2, also called menaquinone, is made by the bacteria that line yourgastrointestinal tract; K2 goes straight to your blood vessel walls, bones, and tissues other than your liver

Vitamin K3, or menadione, is a synthetic form I do not recommend; it’s important to note that toxicity has occurred in infants injected withthis syntheticvitamin K3
The vitamin K I recommend for supplementation is vitamin K2, which is natural and not toxic, at even 500 times the RDA. Vitamin K2, which is made in your body and also produced by fermented foods, is a superior form of vitamin K.Increasing your K2 by consuming more fermented foods is the most desirable way to increase your levels. The food highest in natural K2 is natto, which is a form of fermented soybeans consumed in Asia.

Good K info from Linus Pauling Institute
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminK/


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Mayflowers
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 7:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dianne
Thank  Dian - - I've never been too partial to oranges or orange juice and surprisingly when I re-ran my SWAMI with the change in one of my fingerprints becoming more legible, it gave me oranges and orange juice and a whole bunch of other things shifted


Well, if you have a lot of growths going on, tags, fibroid tumors or cysts, it's worth a try to avoid those three things and see if your growths stop or go away.

My mother ate bananas and oranges almost daily.. she had growths all over her..fibroid tumors, fatty tumor on her arm, cystic breast disease and finally she developed a brain tumor. I tried to tell her about the BTD but she was too old and set in her ways..She didn't believe me  
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Spring
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 8:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm going to try 100 IU's per 1,000 D3 and go from there. Many, many people are taking far more than that. The research I would like to see is why K1 is not converting better in our bodies to K2. Obviously, it IS converting much better in a lot of people out there.


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Spring
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 8:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815
That person probably only needed to stop eating oranges, bananas and coconuts to get rid of the cysts instead of taking K.  Those fruits cause abnormal growths according to Dr. D. I think the right amount of K to D is in the Phyto D formula. I'd go with that. It even has strontium in it!
Jarrow is a good brand but the dosage might be too high.

You must be a lot like your mother, MF!! I haven't eaten oranges or coconuts in years and the fatty tumors I have formed when I was not eating bananas. And as we've already pointed out the K2 is the ONLY one that does what we are discussing here. But I'm going to get out of this discussion. If people want calcification in their hearts, etc., weak bones, brain tumors, bad teeth, bad skin, etc., etc., they are welcome to it...


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
Sunday, February 24, 2013, 8:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring

You must be a lot like your mother, MF!! I haven't eaten oranges or coconuts in years and the fatty tumors I have formed when I was not eating bananas. And as we've already pointed out the K2 is the ONLY one that does what we are discussing here. But I'm going to get out of this discussion. If people want calcification in their hearts, etc., weak bones, brain tumors, bad teeth, bad skin, etc., etc., they are welcome to it...


Before you take off, Spring, what's your opinion of the type of K in Phyto D?  From my research
above, I googled the type of K in Phyto D and it appears it's K1, not unless I'm not understanding this correctly.



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Spring
Monday, February 25, 2013, 4:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chloe, after learning more about the particular Vitamin K2 that we need so badly, sadly, I'm afraid the K in our Phyto 2000 is not going to address the issue. We desperately need help with this, but it is going to have to come from other sources I'm afraid. (And very likely from being our own guinea pigs!) Dr. Weston Price apparently was the person who discovered this "factor" in 1945. It is too bad that he died before he was able to complete his wonderful research and bring it to market at a price people could afford. If we had the key to converting K1 better in our bodies, it would be a wonderful discovery! This is part of an article about supporting good teeth:

"Vitamin K2 is a more recently discovered nutrient essential for building strong bones (and hence teeth) by its role in activating proteins responsible for utilizing and storing calcium. It appears that most "modern" people are somewhat deficient in vitamin K2 (also "helped" by the use of medications such as antibiotics or a damaged colon). Unless you want to gorge yourself on animal fats, Japanese natto (a fermented soybean dish popular in Japan but not elsewhere) and/or other fermented foods (the richest natural sources), it may be wise to supplement with Vitamin K2 supplements (particularly those extracted from natto)."

A 100 gram serving of Natto contains in excess of 1100 mcg.s' of the K2 we need. The thought about a damaged colon and antibiotics is something that I have seriously considered as a reason for the problem of being deficient. Another good reason to adhere to the practices that we already know!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
Monday, February 25, 2013, 6:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
Chloe, after learning more about the particular Vitamin K2 that we need so badly, sadly, I'm afraid the K in our Phyto 2000 is not going to address the issue. We desperately need help with this, but it is going to have to come from other sources I'm afraid. (And very likely from being our own guinea pigs!) Dr. Weston Price apparently was the person who discovered this "factor" in 1945. It is too bad that he died before he was able to complete his wonderful research and bring it to market at a price people could afford. If we had the key to converting K1 better in our bodies, it would be a wonderful discovery! This is part of an article about supporting good teeth:

"Vitamin K2 is a more recently discovered nutrient essential for building strong bones (and hence teeth) by its role in activating proteins responsible for utilizing and storing calcium. It appears that most "modern" people are somewhat deficient in vitamin K2 (also "helped" by the use of medications such as antibiotics or a damaged colon). Unless you want to gorge yourself on animal fats, Japanese natto (a fermented soybean dish popular in Japan but not elsewhere) and/or other fermented foods (the richest natural sources), it may be wise to supplement with Vitamin K2 supplements (particularly those extracted from natto)."

A 100 gram serving of Natto contains in excess of 1100 mcg.s' of the K2 we need. The thought about a damaged colon and antibiotics is something that I have seriously considered as a reason for the problem of being deficient. Another good reason to adhere to the practices that we already know!


Thanks for your insight....  I honestly don't know why K1 and not K2 is in Phyto D although
that formula contains two Chinese herbs that would help with bone issues.

Are you talking about eating natto?  Or taking a pill?  I honestly never tasted natto nor would I
know where to buy it.  I've read that it's stinky and slimy and not something the average non
Asian would find appealing.  I've watched youtube videos of Japanese babies eating a plate of
natto and enjoying it.

I've been trying to figure out why I'm suddenly craving egg yolks....well, it's higher in K2 than
many other foods...so that's very telling.  And manchego is my only hard beneficial cheese...
I now am understanding the Teacher's diet a bit more.....why it's so liberally giving
us hard cheese.  And chicken liver which I adore became a toxin on my professional SWAMI...or maybe a black dot...but I honestly crave chicken liver so I'm also seeing why.  Not for the fat or the protein, but for the K2. Notice how egg yolks in  the Netherlands have twice as much K2 than ours...And there is a whole industry of supplement companies pushing D3....And this is the way it used to be years ago with calcium being added to everything....And suddenly magnesium deficiencies became prevalent...

It would be truly sad if misinformed people who keep self diagnosing and gulping supplements are inadvertantly causing their own medical issues.

I'm so glad you shared K information on this D thread, Spring...It totally belongs here as part of the overall discussion.  Please don't take off again.  I appreciate your research and you certainly enlightened me. Thanks

Foods high in K2  

FOOD VITAMIN K2 (MCG/100G)
Source of the following details: Weston Price Foundation
Natto 1103.4
Goose Liver Paste 369.0
Hard Cheeses 76.3
Soft Cheeses 56.5
Egg Yolk (Netherlands) 32.1
Goose Leg 31.0
Curd Cheeses 24.8
Egg Yolk (United States) 15.5
Butter 15.0
Chicken Liver 14.1
Salami 9.0
Chicken Breast 8.9
Chicken Leg 8.5
Ground Beef (Medium Fat) 8.1
Bacon 5.6
Calf Liver 5.0
Sauerkraut 4.8
Whole Milk 1.0
2% Milk 0.5
Salmon 0.5
Mackerel 0.4
Egg White 0.4
Skim Milk 0.0
Fat-Free Meats 0.0







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Mayflowers
Monday, February 25, 2013, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Spring

You must be a lot like your mother, MF!! I haven't eaten oranges or coconuts in years and the fatty tumors I have formed when I was not eating bananas. And as we've already pointed out the K2 is the ONLY one that does what we are discussing here. But I'm going to get out of this discussion. If people want calcification in their hearts, etc., weak bones, brain tumors, bad teeth, bad skin, etc., etc., they are welcome to it...

No Edwina, actually I'm like my father. I'm a Warrior. I believe my mother was an Explorer. I was trying to explain in another thread that the famous geneticist James Watson discovered that all these megadoses of vitamins and antioxidants "seems to slightly shorten the lives of those who use them". Dr. D was actually first with that because the last time I saw him, he scolded me about taking too much A that it could cause problems.  My point is that I think his vitamin K  amounts are correct with his vitamin D.  Just because some of something is good doesn't mean a whole lot of it is better.
I enjoy your input to my thread. It's thought provoking.  There's no need to leave just because you don't agree with something.  We can agree to disagree. No big deal.  
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Spring
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 1:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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MF, Dr. D. recommends therapeutic doses of supplements all the time. That is what we are talking about here. Reversing damage that can even be life threatening. I'm seventy years old. I'm not worried about a lot of things that younger people are so bothered about! But if I can head off a broken hip, mind-bending pain from degeneration of vertebrae, to say nothing of needlessly dropping dead with a heart attack before my time, a few pills of Vitamin V2 is worth every single penny. Additionally, I would rather not drive my family nuts with my having dementia caused by misdirected calcium in my brain driving them nuts. And that is just to mention a few of the things we are talking about avoiding here. Are poisonous pain killers, BP medication (Calcium channel blockers, yeah, right!), Prednisone and a host of others I haven't heard of yet, better options  than a few Vitamin K2 pills? I don't think so. I may not be able to take the Natto derived K2, time will only tell whether it will work for me or not. We accept that risk using any number of other supplements.

But I don't expect this post to make a bit of difference whatsoever, I am just stating my position and what I am intending to do myself. I don't need any lectures about it.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 1:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, Chloe, I have seen those lists of foods. I also crave egg yolks, a superfood for me. I, also, adore chicken liver - it is a black dot for me. AND, I also adore calves' liver and it is a black dot! Oh, by the way, I did hear from Bob and, among other things, this is part of what he said, "A black dot for Natto indicates it can be carefully re-introduced after 60 days." Well, many moons have passed since I started on these diets, so I don't see a problem with me starting slow and increasing as conditions indicate.

As for the calcium, vitamin D, mag and other minerals conundrum, I have been knowing about these connections for over twenty-five years. That is why I am in shock that no one on this board has been aware of the K2 deal, including myself! Maybe I've gotten to be too much of a lemming in spite of myself!

Yes, I've watched some videos of people eating Natto a while back! I wasn't exactly shrieking, but pretty close! I wonder why people don't just drink the stuff????? Yikes! On the other hand, I'm needing it so badly, it might not taste so awful to me. But I'm not wild about s~l~i~m~e! Shudder!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 4:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Spring, I was craving (of all things) yesterday wheat grass juice.....Tore apart my kitchen for the
jar I remembered buying but never opened.....So I had some last night before bed, 2 t in water...slept great.. but did you know a few tsps of wheat grass powder has 85-110 mcg of vitamin K?   Rather than go after a black dot food to raise your K level, why not just buy yourself a jar of wheat grass powder?  It's a whole food, and to me, better than a pill.  Natto happens to be a beneficial for me....so I wouldn't be concerned taking a natto supplement...But, each person has to decide how they wish to treat black dots.  

Wonder why the egg yolks in the Netherlands are higher in K2 than in America?

Well, sometimes new information just has to be treated as finding a diamond in a haystack. And
it's also about timing...I usually find that when I need to know something, it's the right time to
be searching for that information and finding it.  I'm happy for suddenly craving egg yolks,
tolerating manchego cheese (which I didn't in the past) and now wanting wheat grass juice. I think it's enough to raise my K2 slowly without having to swallow any more pills.


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Mayflowers
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 4:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Spring
MF, Dr. D. recommends therapeutic doses of supplements all the time..


I don't think Dr. D recommends therapeutic doses   I believe he's quite conservative with supplement dosage...  If you want to avoid a broken hip, you might want to use resistance training...like lifting weights. That's what makes your bones dense.  
This woman is in her 70's. She has the bone density of a 20 year old from weight training.
Need I say more?  Ok I will. It's not always about supplements. Some times it's about fresh air, sunshine and water..  and weight training. (proper exercise)

http://www.joycevedral.com/
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Chloe
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 4:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I know you can't do rebounding MF, but I do it for weight bearing exercise and it's also been
proven to build bone density.

This article explains the difference between lifting weights and doing weight bearing exercise.

http://life.gaiam.com/article/5-ways-boost-bone-building-power-your-workout


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Mayflowers
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 4:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
I know you can't do rebounding MF, but I do it for weight bearing exercise and it's also been
proven to build bone density.

This article explains the difference between lifting weights and doing weight bearing exercise.

http://life.gaiam.com/article/5-ways-boost-bone-building-power-your-workout


I wish I could. I used to rebound when I was younger..   I'm not allowed to jump or run. I love my total gym. I think it gives me the resistance I need. I'm working out on it 30 mins at a time.  I also am walking and I do Leslie Sansone, and I have HHAbs and I want the new Zumba Gold dvd's. I have the original set but it's so fast paced. I think an O would really like the work out.  
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Spring
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


I don't think Dr. D recommends therapeutic doses   I believe he's quite conservative with supplement dosage...  If you want to avoid a broken hip, you might want to use resistance training...like lifting weights. That's what makes your bones dense.  
This woman is in her 70's. She has the bone density of a 20 year old from weight training.
Need I say more?  Ok I will. It's not always about supplements. Some times it's about fresh air, sunshine and water..  and weight training. (proper exercise)

http://www.joycevedral.com/


I told you I didn't need a lecture, MF. Have you never read my posts about the exercise I get? I wouldn't doubt that I could out-last anyone on this board with endurance. Yes, I think you are a great deal like your mother.....   If you think the dosage of Vitamin B-12 in the recommendations on Dr. D's brand are not therapeutic, you need to do a little research!  


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 7:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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They aren't even mentioning vitamin K

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/256911.php


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Mayflowers
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 7:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
They aren't even mentioning vitamin K

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/256911.php


Thanks for the links.. the other one too.    Supplements can only do so much. We need the weight bearing exercise to stimulate the bones to be stronger..   Like I said I'm getting my K from broccoli and I'll take D because we get no sun around here, for immune function.    
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Chloe
Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


Thanks for the links.. the other one too.    Supplements can only do so much. We need the weight bearing exercise to stimulate the bones to be stronger..   Like I said I'm getting my K from broccoli and I'll take D because we get no sun around here, for immune function.    


Wonder if you know the answer to this question.  Would a recumbent bike be effective as far as being able to stimulate bone?  I am not really going against a huge resistance as I pedal....but just wondering if I should just perceive this type of exercise to be aerobic rather
than contributing to bone strength.  Seems to me it's good for muscular strength.  Just don't know a lot about the function of exercise as it relates to bones.





"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe

Wonder if you know the answer to this question.  Would a recumbent bike be effective as far as being able to stimulate bone?


I know anything that has "resistance" helps to build bone... I bet the bike helps build bone...maybe not as fast as lifting dead weights but the resistance on the bone from the exercise causes bones to get denser to protect against the resistance.  Probably people who walk should wear light weights in a back pack, or around their waist.. 1-3 lbs. Carrying wieghts in your hands causes rotator cuff injury. Not good idea.
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Spring
Wednesday, February 27, 2013, 1:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
They aren't even mentioning vitamin K

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/256911.php


It is because they are still back in the first half of the last century!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/exercise-weight-bearing
Their recommendations for weight-bearing exercises begins on this page.

Of course, some of these are an anathema to a hiatal hernia.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Wednesday, February 27, 2013, 2:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/exercise-weight-bearing
Their recommendations for weight-bearing exercises begins on this page.

Of course, some of these are an anathema to a hiatal hernia.


Thanks Spring



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Well I finally got to the doctor for the D levels today. Only took an hour and a half.  A lot of sick people there. I hope my levels are up. I came home and made some elderberry tea.  I also got a test for pyelori. Will report back in 7 or so days.  
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I'm making headway with the D level.   I am now up to  45    My Last test was 38.  This is after a spring of tanning salon, being outside more and taking 5,000 ius a day. I don't know whether I should switch back to the Fish Oil D or continue with the GNC D.   It could have been higher. I really should have checked every six months.. I just don't like getting stuck. They always have a hard time finding my vein.
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Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 8:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815
.. I just don't like getting stuck. They always have a hard time finding my vein.


I also have small veins.  I found it helpful to drink a much larger amount of water for the hours leading up to the blood draw.  (not just right before, or it won't have time to hydrate)



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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Mayflowers
Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 8:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Victoria


I also have small veins.  I found it helpful to drink a much larger amount of water for the hours leading up to the blood draw.  (not just right before, or it won't have time to hydrate)


Thanks for the tip. I keep trying to drink a lot of water all the time. I always have to police myself..
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Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815
They always have a hard time finding my vein.


I have a really good vein in my right arm, but they always have to dig around to find on in my left arm...



It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Mayflowers
Thursday, March 7, 2013, 11:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Drea

I have a really good vein in my right arm, but they always have to dig around to find on in my left arm...


The nurse took my blood our of my right inside wrist!  I have a large vein there bulging..
wimp..    It depends on the phlebotomist and usually guys can take it from my arm with no problem better than the women. This nurse was a guy so I was surprised he chickened out searching on my inside elbow usual area.   I usued to give blood for the research people at my job but they had a hard time and decided I wasn't worth being poked.  These were doctors too. I guess it's an art.

Anyway before I go get ready for work,  45 Drea it only took 2 years to get it up there!  I started in 2010 I think.
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Quoted from 815
I'm making headway with the D level.   I am now up to  45    My Last test was 38.  This is after a spring of tanning salon, being outside more and taking 5,000 ius a day. I don't know whether I should switch back to the Fish Oil D or continue with the GNC D.   It could have been higher. I really should have checked every six months.. I just don't like getting stuck. They always have a hard time finding my vein.


My levels went from 33 to 63 or so (I forget exactly) in about 4 or 5 months of taking 10,000 iu per day. If your levels aren't rising as fast as you think they should be, maybe you need to take higher doses? (Also, don't forget that I was already taking 4,000-5,000 iu per day when I got the 33 reading, so I clearly need higher doses.)


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl

My levels went from 33 to 63 or so (I forget exactly) in about 4 or 5 months of taking 10,000 iu per day. If your levels aren't rising as fast as you think they should be, maybe you need to take higher doses? (Also, don't forget that I was already taking 4,000-5,000 iu per day when I got the 33 reading, so I clearly need higher doses.)


Good to know. I was trying 10,000 and I felt weird.. I can try it again. Might have been the brand...
I want to see if my LDL dropped from stopping the fish oil ... The doctor's office just left a message saying my labwork was all normal.   I had to call them back and ask them to send me the labwork.
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You could alternate 10,000 one day and 5,000 the next (1 or 2 pills of 5,000 each) or you could take 7,000 a day (a 5,000 pill plus a 2,000 pill). You don't have to jump to 10,000 a day if you think that's too much for you.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Friday, March 8, 2013, 5:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
You could alternate 10,000 one day and 5,000 the next (1 or 2 pills of 5,000 each) or you could take 7,000 a day (a 5,000 pill plus a 2,000 pill). You don't have to jump to 10,000 a day if you think that's too much for you.


Hey I found this fish liver vitamin D by Jarrow.. (good brand) at the GNC site. Only $7.95 ...
But I'd have to take 5 a day at least.  But still it's only $7.95 instead of $34 for fish oil D by Bluebonnet which that was the price at Whole Paycheck.    I might try that.  I was looking at the GNC brand of D and the first ingredient is dicalcium phosphate so I'm not thinking I'm absorbing much of it.    

Well I did the math and it comes out almost the same because the bluebonnet is 250 soft gels. If I buy it on iherb then it's 23.16 plus $4 shipping which = $27.  I can go buy it in the HFS down street for $30

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3926285
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Monday, March 11, 2013, 12:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I went to the store that I thought carried Bluebonnet fish oil D. They didn't have any. I ended up at Whole Foods. They had it and for only $11.99.    So now I'm on the fish oil D again. I'm taking 3 now. That's 6,000 ius.  Now I have to re test in 6 months.    yippee I get to be stuck again.
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Monday, March 11, 2013, 12:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ruthiegirl

My levels went from 33 to 63 or so (I forget exactly) in about 4 or 5 months of taking 10,000 iu per day.


How much do you take now? Are you trying to maintain 63?  I'd be happy with 63.
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I just went to the dr today, and got the results from last week's labs. My vitamin D level is now 57, after taking 10,000 iu daily for the past year.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Ruthie, what brand are you taking?


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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I'm taking NOW brand D3 in olive oil. I buy the 5,000 iu capsules and  take two a day.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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I still wonder why it is that I need to take 10,000 iu of vitamin D daily to maintain a healthy level. Am I using up an enormous amount of D, or am I only able to absorb a small portion of what I ingest?

I've always taken my D with or shortly after a fatty meal. I was doing that when I was taking 5,000 iu a day and developed the deficiency. I'm still doing that when taking 10,000 iu a day and maintaining a healthy level. I was doing that when I temporarily took 15,000 or even 20,000 on some days, and my levels got over 90 and my dr suggested I cut back.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 12:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I still wonder why it is that I need to take 10,000 iu of vitamin D daily to maintain a healthy level. Am I using up an enormous amount of D, or am I only able to absorb a small portion of what I ingest?


Maybe your body thinks 67 is too high and is fighting you. Dr. Oz said D level should be 50. Dr. D never said anything about it. So, unless you go see him, forget it. You know D can become toxic. It doesn't matter what you read, its about your body only.
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A quick websearch reveals that Vitamin D toxicity causes excess calcium in the blood, and this excess calcium appears to be the direct cause of most of the health problems. http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/

I just grabbed my latest lab test results, and I see that my calcium WAS tested and is within the normal range. Additionally, the Vitamin D council defines Vitamin D toxicity as "above 150 ng/ml" while my levels of both "total" and "D3" is 57.

If I'm looking for  a level of "around 50" then I'd say I'm pretty close to the target.

I also don't have any signs of hypercalcemia/hypervitamin D. My appetite is fine- and the other symptoms (muscle pain, fatigue) I've had for years, including when my vitamin D level was low.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 2:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
There are differences among Vitamin D methods, making a universal reference range difficult to establish. Total 25-hydroxyvitamin D (D2 + D3) is the correct measure of Vitamin D status. There is currently no consensus on the level which indicates deficiency.

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/vitamin-d/tab/test#what


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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The Vitamin D council originally stated that levels of D as high as 100 could be safe.  I don't know who or what brought that number down to 50 as the value to achieve.  My levels have been in the high 60s to low 70s with normal kidney function.  Doctors have been happy seeing my levels this high. I never take more than 5,000 iu in winter and hardly take more than 1,000 iu in summer
if I'm getting sun...I've been sitting in the sun all week for 30 minutes a day and only took a minimal amount of D this week.

Could it be that people who take D without K2 plus also take in too much calcium without balancing it with adequate magnesium are the ones having issues?  Magnesium I believe might be more difficult to absorb than calcium.  Most people aren't getting K2 or eating foods high in K2....

Regardless of the actual number results of our D3 testing.....how do any of us know where our
calcium is actually going?  Into bone or soft tissue?  What measures where our calcium is going?

I'm thinking if D levels are high and bone density is low then calcium is likely going down the
wrong path.

Does anyone know if Calcium D glucorate which is in Detoxical is actual calcium?  Would a person not
want to take another form of calcium if taking this supplement?


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
A quick websearch reveals that Vitamin D toxicity causes excess calcium in the blood, and this excess calcium appears to be the direct cause of most of the health problems. http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/
If I'm looking for  a level of "around 50" then I'd say I'm pretty close to the target.
.

Perhaps your body is fighting you before the toxicity occurs to stop taking so much. You quoted another link.. As I said   Its about what your body tolerates. Like If I belived what I read only, about fish oil, I'd be having all kinds of heart problems. So its really your call.
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Quoted from Chloe

Could it be that people who take D without K2 plus also take in too much calcium without balancing it with adequate magnesium are the ones having issues?  Magnesium I believe might be more difficult to absorb than calcium.  Most people aren't getting K2 or eating foods high in K2....


IDK Chloe you know as well as I that Dr. D teaches individual health.  You yourself taught me not to beleive all the info out there.   Its what works for each of us. I've worked in medicine long enough to know about scientific misconduct and how studies are tipped in the favor of whoever funds them or a corrupted scientist.
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Quoted from 815


IDK Chloe you know as well as I that Dr. D teaches individual health.  You yourself taught me not to beleive all the info out there.   Its what works for each of us. I've worked in medicine long enough to know about scientific misconduct and how studies are tipped in the favor of whoever funds them or a corrupted scientist.


How right you are  



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I don't think I'm taking too much D nor do I think my levels are "too high." I'm just wondering WHY I need such a large dose to maintain "normal" blood levels, and if it might indicate some other kind of problem. If I'm not absorbing all the D in the pills I take, then the extra is just getting pooped out, and no harm is being done. But if that's the case- does my gut need healing?

If I'm using up extraordinary amounts of vitamin D- why? Is the extra vitamin D like a "band aid" that is keeping my D levels stable, but fails to correct the underlying problem? If so, then what's the underlying problem and how do I fix it?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I don't think I'm taking too much D nor do I think my levels are "too high." I'm just wondering WHY I need such a large dose to maintain "normal" blood levels, and if it might indicate some other kind of problem. If I'm not absorbing all the D in the pills I take, then the extra is just getting pooped out, and no harm is being done. But if that's the case- does my gut need healing?

If I'm using up extraordinary amounts of vitamin D- why? Is the extra vitamin D like a "band aid" that is keeping my D levels stable, but fails to correct the underlying problem? If so, then what's the underlying problem and how do I fix it?


Do you think you're truly "using up" extraordinary amounts of D or perhaps maybe are you not absorbing very much from this particular formula?   Do you take the entire amount at once?  Maybe if you divided up your dosage?  I'd guess you'd want to figure out if you're still dealing with a leaky gut from old lectin damage (wheat/gluten in your past diet) which would cut down your absorption of everything you eat plus your supplements.

Taking a supplement is one thing.  Breaking it down and assimilating it is another.  Your
body might only be utilizing half the amount you're taking.  But who even knows if the pills
break down at all.  You might want to take them with a warm beverage just to be sure the
gelatin outer coating is completely dissolving.  Your system might process food quickly....and
the pills taken when food is ingested might swiftly surround the pill and sweep it out of your
body before it's absorbed.  Don't really know.....just trying to imagine why my rather sluggish
digestive system needs so little of any supplement to achieve good results.




"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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OTOH, if I'm absorbing 1/3 of the D I ingest, and I'm taking 3X the amount I need, (or whatever the numbers might be) then is there really a problem? Is there harm in continuing to do what I've been doing, since it's working?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
OTOH, if I'm absorbing 1/3 of the D I ingest, and I'm taking 3X the amount I need, (or whatever the numbers might be) then is there really a problem? Is there harm in continuing to do what I've been doing, since it's working?


Just my opinion but without really knowing how well you're absorbing anything, whatever it takes
to keep your D level at a reasonably healthy level is probably your goal rather than trying to figure out where the other 2/3 of this formula is going.  Do you get any sun on your face/body at all?  Is your D level better in summer?  

This is interesting but still can't find an explanation as to why some absorb D better than others.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog/does-it-matter-how-you-take-vitamin-d/

this could be helpful
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/vitamin-d-absorption.html


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Well, I'm a guinea pig here. I'm back to taking the Vitamin D I was taking before all the hoopla about needing enough of it to fill a barn almost. I am taking Vitamin K2 as MK-7 from Jarrow and will do so until I have my next checkup. I got tired of all this uncertainty with no real guidance about what to do.  


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I don't think I'm taking too much D nor do I think my levels are "too high." ?


What do you want you level to be? Are you taking the same brand that when your level was I forgot ....89?Took me 2 years to get mine up to 45 And there's also good old fashioned sunbathing to increase levels... That's why I went to the tanning salon. And this might be the first spring I don't get the cold from hades for once.

BTW, I was just watching Dr. Oz and a doc on there said back pain is directly linked to D deficiency for those with back pain. My son had bad back pain the other day, I bet his level dropped again.

OR. you may just have a genetic D absorption problem? Just putting it out there for observation. I  and one of my sons has a genetic iron absorption problem. We have to take iron supplements.  

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Quoted from 815


And there's also good old fashioned sunbathing to increase levels..  


You made a really good point about getting vitamin D from the sun.  More benefits than any of
us realized~  Oral vitamin D cannot replace sunlight.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/260247.php


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Thanks for the link. Did you see Dr. Oz show yesterday saying sunscreen may cause cancer with the chemicals in them? I've known that for years! Since the 90's

I only use baby sunscreen like Banana Boat and only if I'm in the sun for hours on a beach. Its better to use the special clothing

I guess ruthie doesn't want to say what she wants as her D level. Don't OD ruthie
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Nope....I missed the show..  Will try and find that segment on Oz's website.  Thanks for mentioning
it.   Even my PCP who is super conventional (and goes mental on me if I even say the words "natural medicine" in front of him and worse if I mention Dr. Oz says "sit in the sun for 30 minutes every day and get as much natural vitamin D as you can".

I don't use sunscreen....especially I avoid makeup that contains sunscreen.  I think for native people
who have grown up in the tropics and use their natural plant oils to protect their bodies....like olive oil, coconut oil, nut oils....there are natural properties in plants that are way more protective and safer than a chemical soup of sunscreen.  If I'm going to be in the sun for more than an hour, I'm covered.  Wearing a hat.... Generally I time how long I'm in the sun and generally it's not high noon.

My dad always slathered his body and face with suntan lotion (living in FL and playing golf/swimming)  He was constantly at the dermatologist's office getting basal cell carcinoma removed.  A hunk if his ear was missing from surgery.  Suntan lotion....I always felt it was the wrong
thing to put on my body.  Happy for my gut instinct!

But aren't you amazed after seeing that article on my last link how the sun helps lower blood pressure and prevent heart disease/stroke? Yay natural soleil!!

My body doesn't seem to want or need much oral vitamin D this time of year.  I take a very low
dose right now.....just one pill of Dr. D's Phyto D.  But when it's a sunny, I sit outside every day for
30 minutes....arms and legs exposed....other day, I suntanned my belly too.  (neighbors can't see
me  


Edited to include link to Dr. Oz's link on issues with sunscreen dangers.
http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/breaking-news-sunscreen-dangerous

Dr. Oz said to see to the Environmental working group's list of safe sunscreens.  They must contain
titanium oxide or zinc oxide and will stay white on the skin.  More costly creams might disappear more
readily but it's the sunscreen that penetrates deep into the skin and could become an endocrine disruptor
that you'd want to stay away from.  The zinc/titanium creams act as a barrier and deflect the sun.  Not
absorbed into the body.

List of safe sunscreens:
http://www.ewg.org/2012sunscreen/best-sunscreens/best-beach-sport-sunscreens/

A list of foods that will protect the skin from sun damage
http://worldtruth.tv/foods-that-protect-skin-from-the-sun%E2%80%8F/


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

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Quoted from Chloe


I usually record it while I'm at work but don't have to this week with my wrist... IDK about foods but there are 2 supplements I take for the sun. I take Astaxanthan and beta carotene to protect my skin. Then after sun, I take straight niacin to get rid of the excess radiation.

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I found interesting information I wanted to share.  Although Dr. John Cannell has become the pioneer in vitamin D research, Dr. Carolyn Dean is one of the major researchers in Magnesium.  There is a big connection between magnesium and vitamin D.

This is a response quoted by Dr. Dean from her website answering a question asked about how much vitamin D to take....
and she's arguing against taking high doses.  Here is the reason why.

SECOND QUESTION: This involved my short presentation about being cautious using high doses of Vitamin D. This angered people who said I was dead wrong because they had benefited from high dose Vitamin D. But far more people agreed that they had been harmed by too much Vitamin D. The ratio was 5 against Vitamin D to 1 for Vitamin D. Judging from the mood of the people who berated me for my cautious advice, I would say their irritability is probably due to magnesium deficiency.

Basically Vitamin D is a hormone with a feedback mechanism to let you know if you have enough calcium. Because we are so calcified with supplements and fortified foods, our Vitamin D levels in general are low. This has been interpreted as a deficiency and not as a reaction to calcium. Also Vitamin D requires magnesium to transform it from the storage form to the active form. So when you take Vitamin D in high doses you overuse your magnesium and you hold on to more calcium which also knocks out your magnesium. People who are already magnesium deficient can get hit very hard. The 20% of people who can metabolize Vitamin D without ill effects do well on it. To determine which you are is difficult. So, what you do is monitor you 25-OH Vitamin D levels, work up to about 800mg of magnesium and slowly build up your Vitamin D using 1,000-2,000 IU daily.


So finally we have a real answer to the question why do some people absorb D well and others don't.
And to understand that the real issue is a magnesium deficiency which masks the fact that most people
have too much calcium and have over-calcified their bodies.  In fact, taking high doses of vitamin D
at one time drains magnesium, causing even a worse magnesium/calcium ratio and continuing to stay
in a magnesium/Vitamin D deficient state.

What I learned is this.  I take no calcium....I eat calcium rich foods, but I use magnesium supplements
like mag citrate (Natural Calm), a powder mixed in water, sipped throughout the day so it doesn't cause
digestive problems.  I take ONLY Dr. D's vitamin D because in his genius he already knew that this
was the optimum dose.  My D level stays at 72.....I figure I'm doing this correctly and I think everyone
should re-think taking high doses of D without first focusing on whether they've got adequate magnesium in their bodies.  I use the transdermal magnesium but I always notice that vitamin D in
high doses makes me achy.  I never understood why.  It's because the more D I'm trying to absorb,
the more magnesium I'm draining.

Sheesh.....it's so simple it's almost ridiculous!  

http://drcarolyndean.com/

A list of drugs that drains magnesium....Note also that high cortisol drains magnesium.
http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/drug-muggers-suzy-cohen-magnesium


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Hmmm. I eat calcium rich foods but I don't eat calcium-fortified foods, per se...I also take magnesium tablets, about 600 mg per day...and I still had trouble retaining the high doses of Vit D...I really should schedule my Vit D retest...thanks for the reminder. An interesting perspective, nonetheless!


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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My oldest sister has been declaring for years that we need to get as much magnesium as we do calcium. Actually, she can only take magnesium because taking calcium AT ALL makes her ache like crazy. She is a marvel healthwise at over eighty one! She just installed a beautiful lavatory in one bath just because she could do it! Amazing!


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I've been supplementing with magnesium for years.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I've been supplementing with magnesium for years.


Yes, but there are times when you've said you had taken large doses of vitamin D. What happens
is that the magnesium can't get from storage to the active form.

Posting this again from Dr. Carolyn Dean because I think it's such an eye opener.  My mind is now wrapped around taking a small amount of D (2,000 iu per day) and focusing on getting more magnesium. Also getting the rest of my D from the sun.


Basically Vitamin D is a hormone with a feedback mechanism to let you know if you have enough calcium. Because we are so calcified with supplements and fortified foods, our Vitamin D levels in general are low. This has been interpreted as a deficiency and not as a reaction to calcium. Also Vitamin D requires magnesium to transform it from the storage form to the active form. So when you take Vitamin D in high doses you overuse your magnesium and you hold on to more calcium which also knocks out your magnesium. People who are already magnesium deficient can get hit very hard. The 20% of people who can metabolize Vitamin D without ill effects do well on it. To determine which you are is difficult. So, what you do is monitor you 25-OH Vitamin D levels, work up to about 800mg of magnesium and slowly build up your Vitamin D using 1,000-2,000 IU daily.



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I've been taking it since 1963!


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So, if I understand what Dr. Dean is saying: we should be taking up to 800 mg of magnesium, 1000-2000 IUs of Vit D, and limiting our calcium intake if we get our calcium from foods? Do I have that correct?


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My sister fell again and this time she said she didn't break anything and she attributes that to strontium that she's been taking.  I was taking that and I ran out yesterday. I bought another bottle. I don't know whether she's still taking D or just getting sun now. I still take 2-4 thousand IUs of D..with 200 mg of magnesium plus multi minerals with more magnesium.  I can't take too much minerals because it will trigger a migraine. weird.
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I started to take Phyto D 2000. It's 2000 IUs twice daily (and Vit K and Strotium    )

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP066


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Quoted from yaeli
I started to take Phyto D 2000. It's 2000 IUs twice daily (and Vit K and Strotium    )

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP066


I can't take extra vitamin K. I've read a lot on how its not good for already thick blood...like mine.   That's why I don't take Phyto D. Well that and I'm allergic to sheep hair which gives me a rash, which is in every brand of D3 out there, so I have to take Blue Bonnet brand fish oil D

I've recently read about mushrooms supplying D2. That's another option.
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Quoted from 815


I can't take extra vitamin K. I've read a lot on how its not good for already thick blood...like mine.   That's why I don't take Phyto D. Well that and I'm allergic to sheep hair which gives me a rash, which is in every brand of D3 out there, so I have to take Blue Bonnet brand fish oil D

I've recently read about mushrooms supplying D2. That's another option.


Do you fit any of the criteria for the contraindications for K?
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-k-000343.htm


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Quoted from Drea
So, if I understand what Dr. Dean is saying: we should be taking up to 800 mg of magnesium, 1000-2000 IUs of Vit D, and limiting our calcium intake if we get our calcium from foods? Do I have that correct?


Yes, that's what she's saying.

Here's Dr. Dean explaining it more clearly.
http://drcarolyndean.com/2013/03/take-magnesium-not-calcium/

Here's another one of her great articles

The Vitamin D Debate
Carolyn Dean MD ND | Monday, March 11, 2013
Vitamin D has become quite an emotionally charged topic as evidenced from the outpouring of pro and con opinions to my post of March 10, 2013, Too Much Vitamin D. I’ll answer everyone in this blog instead of individually.

When I blog about Vitamin D I’m sharing my concerns about a blanket recommendation for taking incredibly high doses like 50,000 IU of synthetic Vitamin D a day when the body can’t possibly process that amount. Even some people on 5,000 IU find that too much for them. How can taking 50,000 IU of Vitamin D be normal, even if it is made from lamb’s wool.

When you take that much Vitamin D, the strain on magnesium is dramatic. The accumulation of calcium is dramatic. And there are probably many other consequences that we don’t even know about. Even so, some people seem to improve dramatically on 50,000 IU. Is that true improvement or are the receptor sites for Vitamin D so battered that they react and respond. How long can such a response be maintained without deleterious effects on magnesium and calcium balance?

These are questions that aren’t being asked. Since I’ve been studying and practicing medicine for about 45 years, I’ve seen the trends and shifts and the fads. So, from a detached position, I’m just asking the hard questions.

When we measure Vitamin D we are measuring the storage form and not even the active form. So, how do we really know what’s going on? And since Vitamin D is a hormone with a feedback loop for calcium, when the D levels are low, does that mean it has enough calcium and doesn’t want to make more Vitamin D to pull in more calcium? We don’t even know the answer to that question. Yet we keep recommending more Vitamin D.

I’m hearing about people taking high doses of Vitamin D developing hypercalcemia. I wrote about the need for magnesium in processing Vitamin D from its storage form to its active form back in my 2003 edition of The Magnesium Miracle. My first questions about the safety of high dose Vitamin D came when I heard about people taking high doses and developing magnesium deficiency symptoms, including seizures.

At this point, I think the 40 ng/mL range of 25-OH D is probably quite sufficient and only take Vitamin D if you are also taking magnesium.

Then there is the Vitamin K2 part of the puzzle that you have to address. I’ve blogged about this also and recommend this book, Vitamin K2: The Calcium Paradox (although the author doesn’t write enough about magnesium). The Weston A Price website has a lot to say about Vitamin K2 because Price discovered the X Factor, which turned out to be Vitamin K2.

In my practice, I recommend Green Pastures, Blue Ice (fermented Vit D and butter oil for the Vit A, Vit K2 and Vit D) as the perfect combination of all three fat soluble vitamins.

But let me be clear. I don’t know all the answers and you don’t have to listen to me, but neither do you have to listen to anyone else. You have to listen to yourself and what makes sense to you and your body. Medicine is about taking big guns and shooting them off indiscriminately. For them, Vitamin D is the new calcium and they will promote it very widely and wait a few decades for the fall out. As I said in my March 10, 2013 blog, I don’t want to wake up in 10-20 years and find out we made a huge mistake in overdosing people with Vitamin D, just like we did with calcium.



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Quoted from Chloe


Do you fit any of the criteria for the contraindications for K?
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-k-000343.htm


No, but I did have DVT at one time and the vein specialist said I shouldn't eat large amounts of broccoli when taking coumadin . That was back in 2002.  I eat a lot of greens and I'm not a celiac. I think my intestines can make it. I clot very easily when I bleed. I suppose its a warrior thing. Due to the DVT and that I clot easily and one time I couldn't give blood because it was just too thick she said and wouldn't flow... (which could have been due to dehydration) I don't take extra K.
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Quoted from Chloe

Is this an old article? They apparently don't even know that Vit. K2 IS sold in the United States.

Too much calcium and not enough magnesium is probably at the root of overly "thick blood." There is a reason for taking CALCIUM channel blockers to protect the heart!! Of course, as usual, the channel blockers cause a world of problems all their own. Most doctors don't know enough yet to understand that too much calcium is causing a lot of problems. But with drug companies pushing "fixes" there is no wonder!


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Quoted from Spring

Is this an old article? They apparently don't even know that Vit. K2 IS sold in the United States.

Too much calcium and not enough magnesium is probably at the root of overly "thick blood." There is a reason for taking CALCIUM channel blockers to protect the heart!! Of course, as usual, the channel blockers cause a world of problems all their own. Most doctors don't know enough yet to understand that too much calcium is causing a lot of problems. But with drug companies pushing "fixes" there is no wonder!


Don't know how old this is.....just had trouble finding a basic article about K2 and just grabbed
one that seemed fairly comprehensive.  If you have better links, I would appreciate it if you'd
share it with us... Just wanted to find something quickly and not much was available.....There seems to be less and less good nutritional information available lately on the web....more from medical facilities and less from nutritional companies.  Someone somewhere is censoring this info.  Never had so much trouble finding info about nutrients as I am now!  



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Here is a short but interesting update (2012) on the work these people are doing on the osteoporosis conundrum:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23173109
It seems that the public interest in this is forcing research! No wonder the "powers that be" are trying to shut the public down - whatever it takes!!


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Quoted from Spring

Too much calcium and not enough magnesium is probably at the root of overly "thick blood." There is a reason for taking CALCIUM channel blockers to protect the heart!! Of course, as usual, the channel blockers cause a world of problems all their own. Most doctors don't know enough yet to understand that too much calcium is causing a lot of problems. But with drug companies pushing "fixes" there is no wonder!


According to Dr. D, a Warrior's thick blood is from the battle field. We genetically developed thicker blood to clot quicker, and heal faster from sword slashes so we don't bleed to death in battle. If you care to argue with him and tell him he doesn't know enough...feel free.  
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Even long ago warriors left the battlefield now and then.......


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Quoted from Spring
Even long ago warriors left the battlefield now and then.......


Are you inferring that the clotting only worked in battle?   It doesn't matter if we left the battle field or not. The point is that we genetically developed the ability to clot faster and heal faster, and it's still in my genes..  
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No, I was not....


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Quoted from Chloe
]

Yes, but there are times when you've said you had taken large doses of vitamin D. What happens
is that the magnesium can't get from storage to the active form.

Posting this again from Dr. Carolyn Dean because I think it's such an eye opener.  My mind is now wrapped around taking a small amount of D (2,000 iu per day) and focusing on getting more magnesium. Also getting the rest of my D from the sun.

Basically Vitamin D is a hormone with a feedback mechanism to let you know if you have enough calcium. Because we are so calcified with supplements and fortified foods, our Vitamin D levels in general are low. This has been interpreted as a deficiency and not as a reaction to calcium. Also Vitamin D requires magnesium to transform it from the storage form to the active form. So when you take Vitamin D in high doses you overuse your magnesium and you hold on to more calcium which also knocks out your magnesium. People who are already magnesium deficient can get hit very hard. The 20% of people who can metabolize Vitamin D without ill effects do well on it. To determine which you are is difficult. So, what you do is monitor you 25-OH Vitamin D levels, work up to about 800mg of magnesium and slowly build up your Vitamin D using 1,000-2,000 IU daily.


I can't "build up my vitamin D levels using 1,000-2,000 iu daily" when I had a level of 33 after taking 5,000 iu daily! clearly that wasn't enough for me!


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Now I'm wondering about magnesium and vitamin D. Could low magnesium have been behind my previous difficulty in  maintaining a high level of vitamin D? Could greatly increasing my mag intake enable me to maintain my D level while taking a much lower dose?

Somebody invited me to a magnesium Facebook group about a week ago, and it's a VERY active group, so I'm constantly going back to read the new messages and magnesium has been on my mind a lot.

In addition to using the mag oil on my skin and epsom salts baths (which, according to some sources, isn't a very good source of mag but great for detox) I've been putting some mag oil and baking soda in water and drinking that throughout the day. This coincided with me dropping my vitamin D intake in half (I'm running out and can't buy more until June) and for the past couple of days I've stopped taking it altogether.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
This coincided with me dropping my vitamin D intake in half (I'm running out and can't buy more until June) and for the past couple of days I've stopped taking it altogether.


Well, you can always lay out in the sun to make D.   Yeah, I know it's not sunny today... but it will be soon. It's a good idea to do both. IMO the human body is not used to supplements. It's used to making D by sunlight. Messing with Mother again by taking a supplement..

Also, I read that heavy people have trouble absorbing D and the minerals. I'm heavy right now and my D levels took a long time to go up.  I don't know if you're still heavy.  
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Now I'm wondering about magnesium and vitamin D. Could low magnesium have been behind my previous difficulty in  maintaining a high level of vitamin D? Could greatly increasing my mag intake enable me to maintain my D level while taking a much lower dose?

Somebody invited me to a magnesium Facebook group about a week ago, and it's a VERY active group, so I'm constantly going back to read the new messages and magnesium has been on my mind a lot.

In addition to using the mag oil on my skin and epsom salts baths (which, according to some sources, isn't a very good source of mag but great for detox) I've been putting some mag oil and baking soda in water and drinking that throughout the day. This coincided with me dropping my vitamin D intake in half (I'm running out and can't buy more until June) and for the past couple of days I've stopped taking it altogether.


Maybe we should get another magnesium thread going.  As Carolyn Dean points out, the underlying issue is not how much vitamin D we swallow, but how much we can get out of storage because if our magnesium levels aren't optimal we're holding onto calcium instead. THat
must be the cause of an achy body. Overly calcified...  When we take more D into our bodies than we can move from storage to active, down goes our magnesium levels.  And that's why we shouldn't be taking a lot of vitamin D.  Our D might keep going into storage and not being
utilized....while driving our magnesium levels lower.

If a vitamin D reading is nothing more than an indicator of having adequate calcium in the body, then perhaps a low or high reading isn't telling any of us what we think we want to know.  It just tells us that yes, our calcium is adequate....but doesn't tell us where that calcium went....Did it go into bones and teeth?  Soft tissue?  This is where K2 comes in.....But even with a high D reading,
does it tell us it's gone from storage into being active?

Where is the measuring device that says "your D is in active mode or your D is in storage mode".

There was a time where D wasn't measured.....people got vitamin D from foods and sunshine....
Suddenly, levels are being measured and everyone is saying "yes or no" to levels being good or
bad..  What if high D means nothing more than all the D is in storage.....in the blood but not being utlilized at all....I'm somehow believing with a level of 72 that the D I have went to my bones....
but it really just means that I have enough calcium.....but where is that calcium?  In my bones or
soft tissue.

Not sure about this from the copious amount of information that is available....Doctors are
testing for D but aren't sure about anything more than "your level is within safe limits".  My
sister with a brain tumor was told her D level of 32 was good.  Good for what?  Her bones are
strong....her bone scan is better than mine and her D level is practically at the bottom....mine
is high. She takes no D....eats a lot of yogurt and dairy.  I don't.  She doesn't take magnesium,
doesn't eat high magnesium foods.  I do and I have trouble holding onto magnesium.

So what do we know? I know that I can't hold onto magnesium....I do not really know what it means when a doctor looks at me and tells my D level is high.....but I know I have achy muscles.

Ruthie, if you wind up learning something new from that magnesium FB group please start a thread or post here....Love to know what's going on with the latest information on magnesium.  My gut tells me this is where I need to focus.



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I'm about 163 lbs. I should be 30 pounds below that, but the weight doesn't seem to want to budge. I've maintained this weight, plus or minus five pounds, for the past couple of years.

Laying out in the sun is hard because of religious modesty- I'm not about to expose my upper legs or upper arms (and certainly not my belly or back!) in public, and I don't have a private place to sunbathe. I do, however, NOT use sunscreen when I'm outside so whatever skin is exposed can do its thing.

I rarely get outside during the heat of the day, and I'm not sure how much D I get in the afternoons at this latitude.

I started a mag thread: http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1369244622/


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack



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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'm about 163 lbs. I should be 30 pounds below that, but the weight doesn't seem to want to budge. I've maintained this weight, plus or minus five pounds, for the past couple of years.


I think I  know what the problem is. You're an O and you need an intense, sweaty workout.
You can't do that with Fibro can you?  I tell you that I've been walking and it's done nothing for my weight loss. I need a sweaty, more intense workout.. like low impact aerobic dancing to raise my heart rate and increase my oxygen levels.   I bet it's my O-ness ... being an Ao.  Yoga doesn't do a thing for me except injure my joints.  
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I was able to lose weight when I could consistently walk 12 miles a week. I can't always maintain that, and I haven't been able to do that in months. Once school lets out, I think I'll start getting up early and taking a walk before it gets hot out. That's not practical when I need to be home and available to get my kids off to school, and again when they need me at night. I'l either take a daily nap, or go to bed earlier than the kids when I start the morning walks.


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Quoted from Chloe


Maybe we should get another magnesium thread going.  As Carolyn Dean points out, the underlying issue is not how much vitamin D we swallow, but how much we can get out of storage because if our magnesium levels aren't optimal we're holding onto calcium instead. THat
must be the cause of an achy body. Overly calcified...  When we take more D into our bodies than we can move from storage to active, down goes our magnesium levels.  And that's why we shouldn't be taking a lot of vitamin D.  Our D might keep going into storage and not being
utilized....while driving our magnesium levels lower.

If a vitamin D reading is nothing more than an indicator of having adequate calcium in the body, then perhaps a low or high reading isn't telling any of us what we think we want to know.  It just tells us that yes, our calcium is adequate....but doesn't tell us where that calcium went....Did it go into bones and teeth?  Soft tissue?  This is where K2 comes in.....But even with a high D reading,
does it tell us it's gone from storage into being active?

Where is the measuring device that says "your D is in active mode or your D is in storage mode".

There was a time where D wasn't measured.....people got vitamin D from foods and sunshine....
Suddenly, levels are being measured and everyone is saying "yes or no" to levels being good or
bad..  What if high D means nothing more than all the D is in storage.....in the blood but not being utlilized at all....I'm somehow believing with a level of 72 that the D I have went to my bones....
but it really just means that I have enough calcium.....but where is that calcium?  In my bones or
soft tissue.

Not sure about this from the copious amount of information that is available....Doctors are
testing for D but aren't sure about anything more than "your level is within safe limits".  My
sister with a brain tumor was told her D level of 32 was good.  Good for what?  Her bones are
strong....her bone scan is better than mine and her D level is practically at the bottom....mine
is high. She takes no D....eats a lot of yogurt and dairy.  I don't.  She doesn't take magnesium,
doesn't eat high magnesium foods.  I do and I have trouble holding onto magnesium.

So what do we know? I know that I can't hold onto magnesium....I do not really know what it means when a doctor looks at me and tells my D level is high.....but I know I have achy muscles.

Ruthie, if you wind up learning something new from that magnesium FB group please start a thread or post here....Love to know what's going on with the latest information on magnesium.  My gut tells me this is where I need to focus.



Chloe, what a great post! I'm thinking you are correct about the Vit D levels. I'm continuing to take 2000-4000 IUs of Vit D (Dr. D's formula) and I've upped my magnesium to close to 800 mg, spread throughout the day. Some of that mag comes in the form of a cal/mag bone supplement, which means I've getting calcium from my food and from supps...but now I'm wondering if I should not be taking any calcium and focus only on the mag... My muscles don't ache (usually, and especially since doing the Egoscue e-cises), and I haven't felt run down in a while, but I did take 50,000 IU's of Vit D, once a week or 8 weeks, ending several weeks ago.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I was able to lose weight when I could consistently walk 12 miles a week. I can't always maintain that, and I haven't been able to do that in months. Once school lets out, I think I'll start getting up early and taking a walk before it gets hot out. That's not practical when I need to be home and available to get my kids off to school, and again when they need me at night. I'l either take a daily nap, or go to bed earlier than the kids when I start the morning walks.


That's about 2 miles a day right? Ever hear of  Leslie Sansone dvd's so you can  walk indoors? Come rain, heat, kids...
She has 1 mile walk all the way to 5 mile walks.. Her dvd's are everywhere, Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble.  Cheap too. I got the 1 and 2 mile heart healthy walk for $9.99.  I've seen one with a stretchy band for $7.99  It's a great workout and if you get tired, you can just march slowly with her...
http://www.collagevideo.com/exercise-videos/leslie-sansone-exercise-videos-10

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The problem isn't walking indoors vs walking outdoors. The problem is that I'm not always strong enough to walk 2 miles a day, 6 days in a row. Weather (too hot, too cold, or too wet) does get in the way sometimes, but not always.

How exactly do those "walking DVDs" work anyway? My treadmill doesn't face the TV.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
The problem isn't walking indoors vs walking outdoors. The problem is that I'm not always strong enough to walk 2 miles a day, 6 days in a row. Weather (too hot, too cold, or too wet) does get in the way sometimes, but not always.

How exactly do those "walking DVDs" work anyway? My treadmill doesn't face the TV.


You need a DVD player or you can play them in your pc if it's dvd compatible. The dvd player is hooked up to the tv then when you put in the dvd in the player it plays on the tv, so you just stand in front of the tv (or pc monitor) basically and follow the dvd. You don't need a lot of room and it's very basic steps very easy. Leslie Sansone is very motivating and friendly. Unless you're asking about the workout... which the link I gave you shows a clip of the workout.
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I can also put a DVD in my DVD player to play it on my TV, with far  fewer wires circling the house.

I do have a computer that plays DVDs, but it's the desktop, not one of the laptops. there's no convenient way to exercise while viewing the monitor- it's just angled wrong. Yes, we (meaning Jack) can hook up wires to the TV to view what's on the computer on the larger screen,  but it's far simpler to use the DVD player directly if we're using a DVD on the TV. It's also more reliable- the computer sometimes freezes up, while the DVD player only messes up if a DVD is damaged.


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I can also put a DVD in my DVD player to play it on my TV, with far  fewer wires circling the house.

I do have a computer that plays DVDs, but it's the desktop, not one of the laptops. there's no convenient way to exercise while viewing the monitor- it's just angled wrong. Yes, we (meaning Jack) can hook up wires to the TV to view what's on the computer on the larger screen,  but it's far simpler to use the DVD player directly if we're using a DVD on the TV. It's also more reliable- the computer sometimes freezes up, while the DVD player only messes up if a DVD is damaged.


Sounds like a DVD player is a better option. I have a Sony player hooked up to my regular TV that I use for movies and to work out with.  I got it at Best Buy $34.99.  DVD players are really cheap. Probably can get another brand for a lot less than that.  Panasonic is good. I had a Toshiba player that lasted one year and died, so I won't buy that brand again.
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I just read something interesting today.

http://articles.mercola.com/si.....iminate-mercury.aspx

I really wish the article was more in-depth, or that I could find more on the topic, but googling "mercury and vitamin D" yielded a lot of message board posts and little else.

I still have 8 amalgam fillings in my mouth. I read somewhere earlier today that more than 4 is associated with health problems in adults. I wonder if my incredibly high need for vitamin D is related to mercury toxicity. No, needing 10,000 iu per day of Vitamin D isn't natural, but it might be a biological reaction to the poison metals stuck in my mouth.

I've dropped down to about 5,000 iu per week instead of 10,000 iu per day, in an attempt to  boost magnesium levels. I'm still not sure what it is my body needs or how best to resolve these issues. I wish I had the money to go to a naturopath or well-trained chiropractor and have him or her "fix me."


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I just read something interesting today.

http://articles.mercola.com/si.....iminate-mercury.aspx

I really wish the article was more in-depth, or that I could find more on the topic, but googling "mercury and vitamin D" yielded a lot of message board posts and little else.

I still have 8 amalgam fillings in my mouth. I read somewhere earlier today that more than 4 is associated with health problems in adults. I wonder if my incredibly high need for vitamin D is related to mercury toxicity. No, needing 10,000 iu per day of Vitamin D isn't natural, but it might be a biological reaction to the poison metals stuck in my mouth.

I've dropped down to about 5,000 iu per week instead of 10,000 iu per day, in an attempt to  boost magnesium levels. I'm still not sure what it is my body needs or how best to resolve these issues. I wish I had the money to go to a naturopath or well-trained chiropractor and have him or her "fix me."


That article is from 2008 and I'm feeling less faith in Dr. Cannell after reading all of Carolyn Dean's
research on magnesium.  Dr. Cannell who Mercola is quoting, although he understands the link
between magnesium and D, doesn't understand it IMHO the way Carolyn Dean does......I'm thinking raising magnesium is still more important than raising D which can lower magnesium.

If you're like me, someone who seems to have issues with holding onto magnesium every day, I
would't focus so much on getting more D from supplements.  You might want to find time on a
sunny day to get outdoors and soak up the sun.  I feel it's the safest way to handle this if you
think your D isn't high enough.

Heavy metals are removed with adequate magnesium.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2640901

http://www.ehow.com/how_6113661_chelate-magnesium.html


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I'm just afraid of having my D level drop too much, since I was maintaining it via supplements in the first place.


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'm just afraid of having my D level drop too much, since I was maintaining it via supplements in the first place.


then sit in the sun

http://articles.mercola.com/si.....ame-as-sunlight.aspx



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Quoted from Chloe


She just said a few posts back when I told her to do that, that she has religious modesty and it's not practical for her to sit in the sun.
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Quoted from 815


She just said a few posts back when I told her to do that, that she has religious modesty and it's not practical for her to sit in the sun.


Well how about some sunlight on the arms below elbows, legs below the knees, face.....shouldn't that be adequate?  Even religious people get out in the sun....



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Quoted from Chloe

Well how about some sunlight on the arms below elbows, legs below the knees, face.....shouldn't that be adequate?  Even religious people get out in the sun....


Experts say you should have shorts (and I don't mean shorts that come down to your shins either.. regular short shorts) and a tank top on to get the most area exposed to the sun.. for 30 mins a day.  I doubt ruthie will do that.

But that is the problem.. taking a supplement instead of sitting out in the sun. I feel more balanced going to the tanning bed now and I plan to get 30 mins of sun along with the supplements. The body needs the sun.  It sets our sleep clock and thalamus.  They even said people shouldn't wear sun glasses because it interferes with the sunlight entering the eye..
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I just spent 20 minutes reading outside on my front lawn, before it was time to pick up my son at school (he can't easily ride the school bus with the stitches on his knee.) I had my face, neck, and forearms exposed- the way I was sitting on the grass there was no way to get sunshine on my lower legs without flashing the neighbors.

I'm not sure just how much vitamin D I can get on Long Island this time of year from 3:10 until 3:30 PM. But it's certainly more than I would have gotten on my living room couch.


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Just thinking- is there some kind of fabric that lets the UV light through but still blocks visible light? I could make myself a "sunbathing dress" that covers what needs to be covered yet lets my skin get the vitamin D-making sunshine.


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ruthie, what would you wear to the beach?

And why is it  you can only sit outside from 3:10 to 3:30?

But..... good job for making the effort to get some sunlight today.  


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To the beach, I wear a 3/4 sleeved shirt, knee length full skirt, and leggings that come just past my knee, all sewn from bathing suit fabric.

I was only able to sit outside from 3:10 until 3:30 today because I didn't think of it until about 3:00 and then I had some housework to finish up before I could get outside, and then it was time to get Jack from school. I could theoretically be outside much longer, and closer to noon, on other days.


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Just thinking- is there some kind of fabric that lets the UV light through but still blocks visible light? I could make myself a "sunbathing dress" that covers what needs to be covered yet lets my skin get the vitamin D-making sunshine.


I know there are clothes that exist that block UV rays....My 3 year old great niece wears clothes like this when she's outdoors to protect her very fair skin.

You might have to check online to see if you can find fabric or go into a fabric store and ask.  I don't make my own clothes so not aware what's available.



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Quoted from ruthiegirl
To the beach, I wear a 3/4 sleeved shirt, knee length full skirt, and leggings that come just past my knee, all sewn from bathing suit fabric.

I was only able to sit outside from 3:10 until 3:30 today because I didn't think of it until about 3:00 and then I had some housework to finish up before I could get outside, and then it was time to get Jack from school. I could theoretically be outside much longer, and closer to noon, on other days.


So a knee length skirt and 3/4 sleeved shirt will expose half of your arms, your hands and 1/2 your legs.  Your neck and face would be exposed and could you expose your feet?  

Whatever parts of your body you can expose to the sun would be better than nothing.

I know this modesty tradition belongs to women.

What about your son?  Can he wear a conventional bathing suit?

Weren't there a lot of sick days in your house this past winter?  MIght be directly related to low
sunlight exposure. Your family needs to spend more time in the sunshine.  Hopefully you'll have
a better winter.







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He wears swim trunks and a T-shirt to the beach. The modesty rules for men aren't as strict as the ones for women, but it's still not appropriate for him to run around shirtless in public. I'm not worried about him getting enough sunshine, as he's red-haired and spends lots of time outdoors.

All of us wear sandals and/or walk around barefoot in warm weather. The tops of my feet are always well tanned in the summertime.


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
To the beach, I wear a 3/4 sleeved shirt, knee length full skirt, and leggings that come just past my knee, all sewn from bathing suit fabric..


That is not going to make D for you. You'd be better off going to the tanning salon and then you can take all your clothes off in private.  My salon is only $20 a month for unlimited tanning. I usually go from April to June and then stop after that because I'm going to the beach etc.
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MF, is the light in a tanning salon the type of light that makes vitamin D?
Did your D level go up after tanning?  How much time do you spend for each tanning session?  Is your skin
fair?

Here's an article on how much skin needs to be exposed to the sun.

Types Of Sunlight Exposure
Sunshine contains several kinds of ultraviolet radiation, including what are known as Ultraviolet A (UVA) and Ultraviolet B rays. UVA rays do long-term damage to the skin and trigger diseases such as skin cancer, while UVB rays are responsible for giving you a sunburn. However, UVB rays are also healthy in small doses. The balance of UVA and UVB in sunlight changes throughout the day. Early morning and evening sunlight provides only UVA light, while UVB radiation is strongest the closer you get to noon. Latitude, season and atmospheric conditions can also affect the strength and concentration of UVB rays in sunlight. A UV Index rating of 2 or below means don't bother going outside -- you get risky UVA rays without the benefit of any UVB. Experts say not to intentionally expose your skin to sunlight when the UV index is less than 3.

Skin Type and Sunlight Absorption
It's not just the environment that affects UVB light absorption. Skin type is a major factor in how long you need to spend in the sun to produce a healthy level of vitamin D. The Fitzpatrick Skin Typing chart creates three skin types: Skin type I burns easily and doesn't tan at all; skin type II burns easily and tans with difficulty, such as those with freckles or red hair; and skin type III burns sometimes and tans moderately and uniformly. Since the 1970s, the categories have been expanded to include six skin types, ranging from very fair to very dark. The three additional categories are skin type IV, which burns rarely, tans moderately and easily; skin type V, which burns rarely and tans profusely; and skin type VI, which never burns and tans profusely.

How Much Skin Should Be Exposed to Sun?
The time and amount of skin exposed depends on both your skin type and environmental conditions such as the UV index. In good UVB light conditions -- a UV index of 3 or higher, between 10:30 a.m. and mid-afternoon -- adequate exposure requires about 50 to 75 percent of your skin being exposed. That's a lot of exposed skin, and not feasible for a lot of people who live places where it gets cold for long stretches of time. Exposing less skin will still allow you to absorb UVB rays, but more time is required the less skin that's exposed.

Examples and Exceptions
One way that dermatologists and other docs measure healthy sun exposure levels is with the Fitzpatrick Skin Typing chart. According to the chart, someone with skin type 1 would need to bare 50 to 75 percent of their skin to sunlight for 10 to 15 minutes, when the UV Index is between 3 and 5. Doing so several times per would likely get them to an optimal level of vitamin D. Someone with skin type III, meanwhile, would need 40 or more minutes in the sun to produce the same amount of vitamin D; and someone with skin type VI -- dark brown or dark black skin -- could need more than two hours. Age also plays a role, with adults 50 and older needing almost twice the amount of skin exposure or time exposed as younger adults.


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Mayflowers
Thursday, May 30, 2013, 6:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe
MF, is the light in a tanning salon the type of light that makes vitamin D?
Did your D level go up after tanning?  How much time do you spend for each tanning session?  Is your skin fair? ]


Yes, these beds make vitamin D. Studies showed that people who went to a tanning salon had denser bones than people who didn't go and also higher vitamin D levels.   My D level went up to almost 46.  Very slow increase for me, but I think the tanning bed helped ( I only went a few months.. not year round') and also I was getting regular sun in the summer. I started out with 10 mins and slowly build up to 15-20 mins.  I'm 1/2 Italian and I tan. I have pretty fair skin but not as fair as a blonde or red head. I can tan a deep golden.

Basically skin cancer is a business.  Dermatologists who say slather on chemical sunscreen and stay out of the sun are making themselves a nice cancer business.  No vitamin D. No immune protection and cancer will form.. not from the sun but from the Dermatologist's so called advice.  Hey. How else are they going to make money? People need to stop letting people brain wash them, and stop listening to the "experts" and come to their own decisions about their health and do their own research.  See my signature? "Question Everything!!"

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Chloe
Thursday, May 30, 2013, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


Yes, these beds make vitamin D. Studies showed that people who went to a tanning salon had denser bones than people who didn't go and also higher vitamin D levels.   My D level went up to almost 46.  Very slow increase for me, but I think the tanning bed helped and also I was getting regular sun in the summer. I started out with 10 mins and slowly build up to 15-20 mins.  I'm 1/2 Italian and I tan. I have pretty fair skin but not as fair as a blonde or red head.


I think you increased your D level more efficiently with tanning than supplementing.  46 is far
better than the 30s where you started.  Was your immune system better this past winter?



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Mayflowers
Friday, May 31, 2013, 1:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe

I think you increased your D level more efficiently with tanning than supplementing.  46 is far
better than the 30s where you started.  Was your immune system better this past winter?


OMG yes! I didn't come down with the cold from Hades like I had been doing almost every spring   Plus I was getting bacterial infections too, UTI's and throat, skin..Which I didn't get this year..
I think age has much to do with absorption of D and/or metabolizing it.  I remember when Eric said he was taking 10,000 a day and his level went up to 80's in one year. He's young.  So for me 25 to 46 is a milestone and I did it in a little over 2 years.  And you know, if you have a safe base tan from the salon, you won't burn to a crisp if you go  the the beach When I was 20's, and I had a decent base tan, I could spend the whole day at the beach and only use 6 spf without burning.. I really hate getting burnt.  I know some people who live in FL have low D levels, probably because the darker your skin gets, the harder it is to make D, but you have the whole natural chemical protection against skin cancer, because I think there's other chemical reactions involved in the skin protecting itself as well as melanin that needs the sunlight to create these reactions.  So far people who've I read about who said they were sun worshippers and got melanoma, all said they burned a lot and didn't protect themselves because they wanted the deepest tan they could get.  When they talk about Australia as having the highest number of cases of melanoma, you're talking about people who originated from England..white skin who genetically were not engineered for the scorching sun of Australia. Stands to reason the melanoma cases would be high there.

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ruthiegirl
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Quoted from 815


That is not going to make D for you. You'd be better off going to the tanning salon and then you can take all your clothes off in private.  My salon is only $20 a month for unlimited tanning. I usually go from April to June and then stop after that because I'm going to the beach etc.


That just doesn't make any sense. My ancestors came from Northern and Eastern Europe and probably dressed as modestly as I do, if not more so (skirts were longer in those days, and I'm not sure if sleeve lengths typically went to the elbow or wrist in those days.) I assume they spent a lot of time working outside in all kinds of weather, but there's no way they were sunbathing in bikinis.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl


That just doesn't make any sense. My ancestors came from Northern and Eastern Europe and probably dressed as modestly as I do, if not more so (skirts were longer in those days, and I'm not sure if sleeve lengths typically went to the elbow or wrist in those days.) I assume they spent a lot of time working outside in all kinds of weather, but there's no way they were sunbathing in bikinis.


You're just going to have to expose less skin for a longer period of time in order to get the
same effects as full body sunbathing.  My ancestors also came from Northern and Eastern
Europe and probably also dressed modestly. Nobody lived past the age of 60....so it's very
likely their health issues could have been prevented if they had the ability to be out in the
sunlight.  Women didn't sunbathe and men generally worked long hours indoors.

Interesting though was that my grandmother loved sunbathing.....She would go up on the
roof of her building in the Bronx and sit on a lawn chair with her dress above her knees...
I have photos of her roasting herself .  She lived to nearly 100.  One of the few women in
our family with such longevity.

My grandkids who live in FL were far healthier than my NY grandkids (Until they started taking
more minerals and vitamin D).  FL grandkids get a lot of sun....swim most days of the year....

But I don't think you have to worry about how much of your body is exposed given you're not
going to be going to a tanning salon or undressing beyond your comfort level.  Even men and
women who work outdoors are probably wearing shirts with sleeves, skirts or pants.  Even in tropical climates, natives aren't walking around in bikinis....They're going about their business in street clothes. And your D level isn't super low.  Your immune system isn't poor.

I think the point is just to get more sun than you presently get in order to raise your level of
D.....get enough magnesium so that D gets out of storage and into your bones.

You'll be fine!  



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Mayflowers
Friday, May 31, 2013, 3:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ruthiegirl


That just doesn't make any sense. My ancestors came from Northern and Eastern Europe and probably dressed as modestly as I do, if not more so (skirts were longer in those days, and I'm not sure if sleeve lengths typically went to the elbow or wrist in those days.) I assume they spent a lot of time working outside in all kinds of weather, but there's no way they were sunbathing in bikinis.


Unless they took cod liver oil, IDK how they got enough vitamin D
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skillsaw
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My vitamin d level was below normal so my doc told me to take 5000 iu per day. I did that for a few months and my level came up to 60. I was happy about that but did not notice any change in my health. Recently I heard this interview by Dr. Trutt who looked at all the data, clinical studies, meta analysis's of mortality studies, etc. and now recommends keeping your level around 35. Cancer rates and mortality is high at very very low levels than normalize at around 30-40 and than go up again. Here's the link. The whole program is a couple of hours and the discussion on vitamin d starts at about 1:01:30.  click on link and scroll down to the show on 7-29-13
http://www.kinetichifi.com/ecohealth/archives/
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skillsaw
Friday, December 27, 2013, 1:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I understand that this cuts across all blood types but correct me if I'm wrong I don't think DR D says different types need different amounts of vit.d. I also know that many clinical trials are faulty but this is an analysis of many reports not really studies. D levels were followed in people for years in different countries and the results were consistent. I was all for raising my level even more but after listening to the interview I'm cutting back on vit. D a bit. So many alt. and regular doctors are now saying raise, raise, raise your d level but perhaps the emperor has no clothes.  
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ruthiegirl
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You also need to be careful about magnesium. Vitamin D synthesis uses up magnesium, and high dose D supplementation sometimes leads to low magnesium levels, if you're not taking adequate magnesium along with the D.  I wonder if low magnesium is the cause of health problems in people with high D levels.

In many cases, taking magnesium will raise vitamin D levels by increasing D absorption from the sun and from foods.

I'm not sure if low vitamin D is itself a risk factor, or if it's merely a sign that something is "out of balance" in the body. When you get lots of sunshine and minerals, you get healthier and vitamin D levels go up. Causation or merely correlation?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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