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Streptococcus thermophilus: Probiotic or Not?  This thread currently has 3,843 views. Print Print Thread
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Conor
Wednesday, May 16, 2012, 12:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would appreciate input from any type Os (or others) that have researched this.

Streptococcus thermophilus is a component of Polyflora O, but I recently read that Streptococcus salivarius subsp. thermophilus (previously Streptococcus thermophilus) is not considered a probiotic per se, i.e., it does not survive the stomach acid in healthy humans. Anyone know if this is so and, if so, what is its purpose in Polyflora O? There has been some study of two strains (RD102 and RD104) isolated from Indian fermented milk products that were able to survive at pH 2.5 and 2-percent bile, but I don't know if they're even in commercial production yet. Are the capsules used in the Polyflora O enteric-coated so as to bypass stomach acid and bile in the duodenum and, thus, allow the Streptococcus thermophilus transit to the rest of the intestinal tract?



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Lola
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I believe Dr D of all people has in fact done our gut math for us all
http://www.4yourtype.com/probiotic.asp

http://www.4yourtype.com/herbs_biofilm.asp


on a Mexican radio?
which is it?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Conor
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Quoted from Lola
I believe Dr D of all people has in fact done our gut math for us all ... on a Mexican radio? which is it?


Thanks, however, I'd already read the content contained within both of those linked pages and neither one was specific to the information I'm trying to ascertain.






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Lola
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Quoted Text
neither one was specific to the information I'm trying to ascertain.


you might need to do a more profound search then

try the window here above........

my advice is, if ST is contained in Dr D s probiotic formula, it certainly is doing its thing......

and thanks for answering my question as well!
on the M radio  


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Lloyd
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Quoted from Conor


Thanks, however, I'd already read the content contained within both of those linked pages and neither one was specific to the information I'm trying to ascertain.



I don't know the answer, but you could start looking here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Streptococcus%20thermophilus
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Lola
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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Conor
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Quoted from Lloyd
I don't know the answer, but you could start looking here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Streptococcus%20thermophilus

Quoted from Lola


Thank you both for the feedback links. Especially with your link though, Lola, this question is temporarily getting murkier than clearer. Reason being, the bacterial strain in question is a standard strain in the production of commerical yoghurt. However, yoghurt is a definite avoid both for my BT and GT.

On one hand, I'm thinking it's actually the milk solids which comprise the yoghurt that causes it to be an avoid for me (I don't know this for a fact, though). On the other hand, is it actualy another strain of bacteria within yoghurt that causes it to flocculate serum or precipitate serum proteins for my type(s)?

At any rate, I'm still left wondering: if Streptococcus thermophilus truly doesn't survive stomach acids/bile, what is the basis of its inclusion in Polyflora O? Oh well, as Socrates, by way of Plato, said, the life which is unexamined is not worth living.



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Lola
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no, the whey might be the issue

so find out how paneer rates for you or other type dairy, running a swami

draining that whey renders it less inflammatory

Quoted Text
if Streptococcus thermophilus truly doesn't survive stomach acids/bile, what is the basis of its inclusion in Polyflora O?


you might be repeating a one size fit all expert advice somewhere on the net......do not believe everything you read


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yaeli
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Streptococcus thermophilus is contained also in other probiotic preparations.

I've used 2 of them:

Co-Biotic
NOW probiotics

I chose them according to the Polyflora O strains, when I needed mega-doses.

I imagine that as per (at least) relatively new researches, S. thermophilus is contained in every state-of-the-art probiotics.


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Conor
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Quoted from Lola
you might be repeating a one size fit all expert advice somewhere on the net......do not believe everything you read


Lola, my information came from Todar's Textbook of Bacteriology, i.e.:

Quoted Text
Streptococcus thermophilus is an alpha-hemolytic species of the viridans group. The bacterium is found in milk and milk products. It is not a probiotic (it does not survive the stomach) and generally is used in the production of yogurt and the manufacture of several types of cheese, especially Italian and Swiss cheeses. The organism is a moderate thermophile with an optimal growth rate at 45 °C. Although S. thermophilus is closely related to other pathogenic streptococci (such as S. pneumoniae and S. pyogenes), S. thermophilus is classified as a non-pathogenic, alpha-hemolytic species that is part of the viridan's group. It is closely related to S. salivarius in the oral cavity.


You're probably right about the whey, which I stay away from, because if it were the milk solids themselves that caused yoghurt to be an avoid, it would make sense that all dairy products would be verboten. However, various cheeses and butter/ghee are either superfoods or neutrals (all dairy products which have had the whey drained to a large degree).

Interestingly, even before I was aware of BTD/GTD, I always strained my yoghurt (kefir, too) for a couple of days with a very fine-mesh strainer to remove as much of the whey liquid as possible, and the result would be a soft cheese that could be used as a spread in place of cream cheese or a sour cream replacement on baked yams ... and I'd still obtain the probiotic benefits of the fermented dairy milk.

Anyhow, I remain curious about my original question. While I've come across some research that indicates S. salivarius subsp. thermophilus is a model "oral" probiotic, Polyflora O is encapsulated so, unless one takes the capsules apart and sprinkles the contents on the tongue, that seems to rule out its inclusion for that purpose. Thus, I'm still looking for information that supports its ability to survive gastric acidic conditions and adhere to intestinal epithelial cells.

Thanks for the input, and links, from everyone thus far. (:



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Lloyd
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Have you gone thru any of the NIH stuff yet? Did you notice that S. Ther...  is used in some bacteria combinations to provide folic acid?

I found that interesting. I still don't claim any knowledge on why it is specifically in the O polyflora.
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Lola
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so far no one has studied the link of IAP content in the different Abo physiologies......there might lie your answer.....do the other polyfloras contain that S T strain?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Conor
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Quoted from Lloyd
Have you gone thru any of the NIH stuff yet? Did you notice that S. Ther...  is used in some bacteria combinations to provide folic acid? I found that interesting.

Lloyd, thanks, I have looked through some of them and, yes, I also noticed the folic acid link to the bacterium. Quite interesting, but it seems that the process works in solution, i.e., during the fermentation stage of whatever matrix is being used, so it's definitely beneficial in that respect. Actually, this ties in to one of the reasons I'm so intrigued by bacterial fermentation. In most food stuffs, the process seems to universally boost certain vitamins in foods, including biotin, cobalamin, nicotinic acid, riboflavin and thiamine.

Not to get sidetracked from this thread, but I find the yeast saccharomyces cerevisiae very interesting, as well.



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Conor
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Quoted from Lola
so far no one has studied the link of IAP content in the different Abo physiologies......there might lie your answer.....do the other polyfloras contain that S T strain?


Lola, I should have mentioned in my first post that I'd looked at the entire Polyflora line, and that even kind of sparked my question about the bacterium in question ... no, it's not included in any of the other BT Polyflora formulations. It's only included in Polyflora O. (:



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Conor
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Further information (that doesn't seem to bode well for S. thermophilus' probiotic status) ...

Full Text: Scarce Evidence of Yogurt Lactic Acid Bacteria in Human Feces after Daily Yogurt Consumption by Healthy Volunteers
  • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC544258/

Quoted Text
"Despite the widely held assumptions about the probiotic properties of classic lactic acid bacteria in yogurt, L. delbrueckii and S. thermophilus, data about the function of these organisms in the human intestine remain scarce at best and unconvincing where they exist at all (16). The new molecular techniques provide a much greater opportunity to examine this important research question. In the carefully controlled experiments reported in this paper, we were consistently unable to detect viable yogurt lactic acid bacteria in fecal samples after repeated yogurt consumption by healthy volunteers. L. delbrueckii and/or S. thermophilus DNA remains were detected by hybridization assays in only 10% of volunteers who had ingested fresh yogurt ...."

Appl Environ Microbiol. 2005 January; 71(1): 547–549.

Abstract: Probiotics: facts and myths
  • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16307549/

Quoted Text
"There is scientific evidence that specific strains of probiotic microorganisms confer health benefits on the host and are safe for human use. However, this evidence cannot be extrapolated to other strains, as these effects are strain-specific ...."

Clin Microbiol Infect. 2005 Dec;11(12):958-66.

Full Text: Survival of Yogurt Bacteria in the Human Gut
  • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489325/

Quoted Text
"In our study, S. thermophilus was retrieved from only one volunteer on day 7, but we cannot exclude the possibility that a prolonged ingestion period or a larger amount of ingested yogurt, as described by Mater et al. (22), could positively affect the rate of S. thermophilus recovery from fecal samples. However, several authors have shown that S. thermophilus suffers from the environmentally adverse gastric conditions (9, 26) ...."

Appl Environ Microbiol. 2006 July; 72(7): 5113–5117.

Full Text: Molecular Analysis of Yogurt Containing Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus in Human Intestinal Microbiota
  • http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/1/91.full

Quoted Text
"The DGGE analysis showed that the individual composition of intestinal microbiota remained stable during the study period, and no significant differences were observed after the exposure to either type of yogurt. The DGGE analysis corroborated previous results indicating that classic bacteria used for yogurt fermentation were unable either to survive after ingestion or to colonize the intestinal tract (9). DGGE experiments using universal primers allowed us to identify particular band patterns among the different individuals, although we consider that the low number of bands detected with these primers hinders the precise analysis of qualitative changes ...."

Am J Clin Nutr January 2008 vol. 87 no. 1 91-96.



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Lola
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Conor, read this real carefully

Quoted Text
Polyflora   (reply)       Posted by: Dr. D

Almost all probiotics are in spore formation (since bacteria go into
spore mode when dessicated).

Spores would survive a nuclear detonation.

How long the capsule takes to dissolve is immaterial.

Enteric coating is a good thing for aspirin, but a marketing gimmick for probiotics.
http://www.connecticutcenterforhealth.com/acidophilus.html


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Lloyd
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Quoted from Conor


Full Text: Survival of Yogurt Bacteria in the Human Gut
  • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489325/




This is the only reference I have reviewed so far. It contains the following passage:

Quoted Text
On the other hand, Brigidi et al. (4) reported that for 6 days after the end of treatment, they recovered S. thermophilus from fecal samples from 10 healthy subjects who had ingested a pharmaceutical preparation orally for 3 days.


Which, if all excerpts are taken at face value, implies that probiotic supplements may be superior to yogurt. At least for some organisms.

Keep reading. Look at the study design and what, if anything, the study was designed for.

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Conor
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Quoted from Lloyd
Have you gone thru any of the NIH stuff yet? .... I found that interesting. I still don't claim any knowledge on why it is specifically in the O polyflora.

Hi Lloyd, I recently received a white paper from a Streptococcus thermophilus manufacturer. It has some interesting information and provides data regarding the bacterium's ability to survive stomach acid/bile. The document's in PDF format, which is why I can't post it here. If you'd like to have a look at it, let me know and I can email it to you. (Or, is there a way to attach a file to a forum post and I've overlooked it?)



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yaeli
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Quoted from Conor

Hi Lloyd, I recently received a white paper from a Streptococcus thermophilus manufacturer. It has some interesting information and provides data regarding the bacterium's ability to survive stomach acid/bile. The document's in PDF format, which is why I can't post it here. If you'd like to have a look at it, let me know and I can email it to you. (Or, is there a way to attach a file to a forum post and I've overlooked it?)
Is a program like this useful?  



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Lloyd
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Quoted from Conor

If you'd like to have a look at it, let me know and I can email it to you.


Sure, check your PM box. Thanks!

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Lloyd
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16099606

Quoted Text
To date, there is significant controversy as to the survival of yogurt bacteria (namely, Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus) after passage through the human gastrointestinal tract. Survival of both bacterial species in human feces was investigated by culture on selective media. Out of 39 samples recovered from 13 healthy subjects over a 12-day period of fresh yogurt intake, 32 and 37 samples contained viable S. thermophilus (median value of 6.3 x 10(4) CFU g(-1) of feces) and L. delbrueckii (median value of 7.2 x 10(4)CFU g(-1) of feces), respectively. The results of the present study indicate that substantial numbers of yogurt bacteria can survive human gastrointestinal transit.
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Spring
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This discussion is very interesting. I just saw this while I was doing a search: Whether Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus can be recovered after passage through the human gut was tested by feeding 20 healthy volunteers commercial yogurt. Yogurt bacteria were found in human feces, suggesting that they can survive transit in the gastrointestinal tract.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489325/
Makes me wish I could eat yogurt!


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ruthiegirl
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Quoted from Conor
Further information (that doesn't seem to bode well for S. thermophilus' probiotic status) ...

Full Text: Scarce Evidence of Yogurt Lactic Acid Bacteria in Human Feces after Daily Yogurt Consumption by Healthy Volunteers
  • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC544258/

.


My first thought on this is: how much yogurt are the participants eating, and what kinds of yogurt? If they're eating sugar-laden varieties with low levels of probiotics, I'm not surprised it's not helping them.  


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Conor
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Quoted from Lloyd
Sure, check your PM box. Thanks!

Sent it.



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Conor
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Quoted from yaeli
Is a program like this useful?  

Hi yaeli, thanks for the link. I have a program that works similarly, but the PDF document from the manufacturer contained graphics, table charts, et cetera, that don't always convert well to MS Word, OO Writer or other word processors. Wish there was a way to post files in a local dropbox-type area on the forum and provide links to them in posts (of course, this is already a very useful gratis service provided by Doctor D'Adamo so no complaints here). (:



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