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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Supp Right For Your Type  ›  Rhodiola advised, but is it an MAOI?
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Rhodiola advised, but is it an MAOI?  This thread currently has 5,578 views. Print Print Thread
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charlie
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'm a type-O, probably non-secretor, but I'm not sure yet.

DrD recommends rhodiola rosea to type-Os as an adaptogen. He also recommends that type-Os avoid taking MAOIs. But I had heard that rhodiola rosea acts as an MAOI. I checked on pubmed.org and found a study that showed this.

So, does anyone have a commend on this contradiction in DrD's recommendations?

I'm interested because I seem to be sensitive to tyramine, which is metabolized by MAO. I am wary of foods that contain tyramine as well as anything that might inhibit MAO (especially since type-Os have relatively low MAO activity according to DrD).

Thanks,

Charlie
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Lloyd
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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The wikipedia article on MAOI's lists a number of herbals including rhodiola, ginkgo, tumeric (curcumin), yerba and eleuthero. Not to mention alkaloids found in coffee!  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor

How much you get from any of these is another matter. If you are on an MAOI it might be important.

Individuality says that there may be a few that are sensitive enough that it matters for them, but not for the larger group.
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Lloyd
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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From the page on rhodiola:

Quoted Text
Rhodiola rosea may be effective for improving mood and alleviating depression. Pilot studies on human subjects[2][3][4] showed that it improves physical and mental performance, and may reduce fatigue.

Rhodiola rosea's effects are potentially mediated by changes in serotonin and dopamine levels due to monoamine oxidase inhibition and its influence on opioid peptides such as beta-endorphin,[5] although these specific neurochemical mechanisms have not been clearly documented with scientific studies.

Rhodiola is included among a class of plant derivatives called adaptogens which differ from chemical stimulants, such as nicotine, and do not have the same physiological effects.
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charlie
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Here's the study I found on pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=rhodiola%20monoamine%20oxidase

It makes sense that different individuals would be more or less sensitive, and I can see how in vitro MAOI activity might not correlate perfectly with what happens in the gut.

Thanks for the replies!
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Andrea AWsec
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 11:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Why not give it a try and see how you feel? you can always stop it.


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charlie
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Well I was taking it up until my most recent episodes. I can't be sure that the rhodiola made a difference, but I am pretty sure that tyramines are behind the experiences I've had. I'm going to be extra careful for a while in the hopes that following LR4YT will help me become one of those healthy people with a better tolerance for avoids!
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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There is a difference in the actions of natural herbs and pharmaceuticals. Just because MAOIs are contra-indicated for most Os doesn't mean that an herb with multiple functions, including slight MAOI, will have the same effect.

For you personally, with your unique medical history, rhodiola is either going to be extremely helpful and healing, or harmful for you. If it were me, I'd avoid it until I knew more. I don't take chances with my mental health!!

I can tell you from personal experience that avoiding wheat and innapropriate dairy are a HUGE boost to my mental health, along with making sure I get enough red meat and fish.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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snazzyshazz
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 1:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Charlie, I am O+, non secretor (well, following non-secretor values, since I am actually Lewis double negative)and I have been taking rhodiola for some time now. I find it excellent! My depression doesn't seem to be exacerbated by it. In fact, my depression drastically improved after I began my swami program.


FIfHI

"The mind is nourished by what it receives; the heart by what it gives."
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Paula O+
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 3:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Charlie  
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SquarePeg
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I consider Rhodiola my "deserted island" supplement.  If I got stranded on a desert island, the one supplement I would absolutely not want to give up is Rhodiola Rosea.  But that's me.

Be sure to carefully search for and review errata on all the literature you're basing your decisions on, including the D'Adamo books.

Good luck.


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.

Revision History (1 edits)
SquarePeg  -  Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:08pm
"Desert Island", not "Dessert Island" (in which case I might choose Deflect O)
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Symbi
Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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lol Squarepeg, wondered recently why desert islands are usually tropical then it twigged, deserted as in empty DOH!  

My DH is O and we both tried Rhodiola (though it's an avoid for As I didn't realise).  I'm also sensitive to tyramines (maybe you're an Explorer too Charlie!).  It didn't seem to affect me that way much or it was just short lived and I avoid those foods anyway.  

What it did to for me and DH was put us in bed straight after taking the tablet and then wake up later wired.  It was Rhodiola rosea extract equiv. dry root 965mg maybe a big dose?

Here are some quotes from me before "MY DH tried a B vitamin with Rhodiola.  It made him very sleepy for a few hours and then stimulated.  So we tried it at night.  Not a good idea, he was drowsy during evening and then awake most of the night!  The next day he was more relaxed than usual (it's supposed to fight anxiety).  Maybe that was just lack of sleep hangover?"
you may like to read Jesi an O talks about it here too - http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1304444269/s-7/highlight-rhodiola/#num7

Here's a quote from when I tried it before but remember I'm an A:
"Recently I tried rhodiola and that had a funny aftertaste that I didn't enjoy.  (also my adrenals were burning didn't like the stimulation).  Knew that I should have checked on here rather than general websites - it's recommended for Os not As.  Guess As don't need help breaking down adrenalin.  DH could use it though.  I reckon it was breaking down into a bad metabolite in my bod?? "


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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SquarePeg
Friday, July 29, 2011, 7:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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965mg sounds like a huge amount.  I take the Pure Encapsulations capsule.  I don't have time to check, but I think it's only 100mg or 200mg.

Thanks for the links!


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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ruthiegirl
Friday, July 29, 2011, 11:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm currently using a 400 mg capsule, but that's the whole herb, not a potent extract. I selected that one because it was free of any questionable additives. I knew it would be less potent, but for a daily supplement, sometimes smaller is better, and I always have the option of taking more than one if necessary.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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WadeWilson
Thursday, November 8, 2012, 11:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi symbi,

where does it say that rhodiola should be avoided for type A's? i'm interested in trying this, but curious as to why it might be an avoid
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Possum
Thursday, November 8, 2012, 11:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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WadeWilson it might take Symbi a while to get back to you as she has not been well lately...
Hopefully someone else can answer that question for you?!
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deblynn3
Friday, November 9, 2012, 12:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Of topic, sorry, but glad to hear from you, Symbi, sorry your not feeling well. I was just wondering why I hadn't seen you on the forum lately.  

Which of the Doc's formula have Rhodiola in them? Seems I remember at least one.  


Swami, 100% me..
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Amazone I.
Friday, November 9, 2012, 9:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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charlie please remember...*artwork* is liable to determined circumstances ..... ...........


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Eric
Friday, November 9, 2012, 5:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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From what I understand, there are different kinds of MAO inhibition.  The MAO-I in St. John's Wort is different from that in Rhodiola.  Someone call me on this if I'm wrong.  I just know, anecdotally, that I'm extremely... like, ridiculously, sensitive to hormone balance.  And Rhodiola has done nothing but good, while St John's and other avoid substances wreck me.


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Lola
Saturday, November 10, 2012, 3:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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misspudding
Thursday, February 26, 2015, 10:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I just started taking rhodiola again and it's really over stimulating me right now. Anyone else notice this? Does it go away?

I used to take it 10-15 years ago when I was in grad school, but it was part of a complex with B-vitamins. It seemed only good back then, but my liver was probably functioning a lot better back then. I took 200 mg yesterday around lunch and went to bed with a migraine. I took 100 mg today and am feeling very "pew pew pew!" going on in my head right now. Maybe I'll drop down to 50 mg (not sure how).

Basically I'm just feeling very wired and not in a good way.

I haven't taken B-vitamins in a while and think maybe that's part of the problem. But I really want the rhodiola to work for me again. Help, fellow Explorers and sensitive types!


SWAMI Hunter or Explorer...probably an Explorer
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misspudding
Thursday, February 26, 2015, 11:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI Explorer?, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
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Ahhh, now I see it has a very stimulating effect on the nervous system. Will back off and gradually cut back on the coffee. Perhaps that's the problem.

http://www.raysahelian.com/rhodiola.html


SWAMI Hunter or Explorer...probably an Explorer
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Easy E
Friday, February 27, 2015, 2:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can do rhodiola in small amounts, like maybe 100 mg max in a day and it seems to help.  There are trace amounts in a supp my wife has.  I had taken up to 1500 mg a day this summer for like a week to help with my new job (lots of details and organizing to learn).  May work better with O types but I heard of A types and others do well on it.

Similar herbs more recommended for my blood type generally as well as rhodiola all make me irritable and over focused in a way.  Ginseng and bacopa also did this in a differe.t type of way and they are in cortiguard.  Rhodiola is in catechol.  

I am trying cortiguard now because I want to be invincible and impervious to all stress and also have nearly psychic concentration powers.  In other words, function in modern society!
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Lola
Friday, February 27, 2015, 2:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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so glad I got that addiction behind me.....  


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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misspudding
Friday, February 27, 2015, 2:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI Explorer?, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Easy E
I can do rhodiola in small amounts, like maybe 100 mg max in a day and it seems to help.  There are trace amounts in a supp my wife has.  I had taken up to 1500 mg a day this summer for like a week to help with my new job (lots of details and organizing to learn).  May work better with O types but I heard of A types and others do well on it.

Similar herbs more recommended for my blood type generally as well as rhodiola all make me irritable and over focused in a way.  Ginseng and bacopa also did this in a differe.t type of way and they are in cortiguard.  Rhodiola is in catechol.  

I am trying cortiguard now because I want to be invincible and impervious to all stress and also have nearly psychic concentration powers.  In other words, function in modern society!


Ha! Good luck with that!

It was way too stimulating for me. When I took it before, it was with a supplement that had a ton of b6, :-theanine, GABA, holy basil, and some other calming things.

In hindsight, it was probably the GABA.

https://irwinnaturals.com/files/supp_facts/stressdefyND.jpg


SWAMI Hunter or Explorer...probably an Explorer
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misspudding
Friday, February 27, 2015, 3:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI Explorer?, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Lola
so glad I got that addiction behind me.....  


I had it behind me a couple of times over the last couple of years. I suspect, for me, it'll be like gluten. I'll finally kick it and won't want it again. It took for freaking ever with gluten.


SWAMI Hunter or Explorer...probably an Explorer
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