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Progesterone Cream   This thread currently has 6,037 views. Print Print Thread
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Jesi
Friday, April 15, 2011, 5:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So I've been taking the maca and the chasteberry tincture for almost a week and I can't deal with the bloating and the cramps and the constipation. I was in so much pain last night, and I felt 10 lbs heavier.

Do any of you use progesterone cream? Do you think it would be safe for me to try tiny amounts? If I go ask my ND about this he is going to blow me off and say "focus on your health"...that's what I'm doing, I think. lol

I saw a few different brands at Sprouts yesterday and I think I will get one today. I'm not going to take Fembalance, it has chasteberry.

Anyhow, I want to try it and see if it will raise my progesterone and bring down my testosterone. My progesterone is .096 and it's supposed to be somewhere like 15-20, so it's really low. My testosterone was 40 last time (down from 52!). My estrogen is a little bit low but pretty normal. I looked through last year's calendar, and I have been off birth control for 7 months now...isn't it time my hormones level out?

Are there any dangers in using the progesterone cream in tiny amounts and seeing how I do?


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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nowishow
Friday, April 15, 2011, 5:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I use progesterone cream and have for the last year. I wish I would have taken it when I was younger as looking back I can see that I was Estrogen dominant. Here is a very good cream you can get without a prescription. http://www.iherb.com/Emerita-Pro-Gest-Cream-Value-Size-Paraben-Free-4-oz-112-g/4961?at=0

Good luck!


"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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Jesi
Friday, April 15, 2011, 5:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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wow, the statement at the bottom really scares me. Is it true??

How would I take it if I have neither pms nor menopause? It says 14 days on 14 days off for pms, and then three weeks on for menopause.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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Kathleen
Friday, April 15, 2011, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm estrogen dominant and in perimenopause/menopause so have been using the Emerita ProGest cream.  It helps me sleep.


Husband, daugher(17) and son(15) - we're all O's
BTD since Feb. 2003
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brinyskysail
Friday, April 15, 2011, 6:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My mom has been using progesterone cream for years and swears by it.  She uses prescription-strength so that she can get the dosage customized precisely for her.  If you do get some, make sure it's yam-based; the OD I go to said that soy-based can be dangerous.  Good luck!


There is a good in every bad  
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jayneeo
Friday, April 15, 2011, 6:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I use it even tho I'm 63....I think it helps me sleep...?
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Victoria
Friday, April 15, 2011, 6:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Jesi, if your testosterone levels are high, I don't know if maca would be advised for you.  I think it could raise those levels;  at least it has for me.

Transdermal progesterone in a small amount will not hurt you IF you are estrogen dominate, or IF you have low levels of progesterone. I still use Progesterone cream by Laid in Montana brand.  It is a wild yam based cream with Emu oil.  Wonderful Stuff!!

Are you willing to get a saliva test to check your progesterone level?  Blood tests won't show an accurate reading.  They only work well for estrogen and testosterone levels.

It is possible to overdo the progesterone, so you don't have to use the amounts suggested on the package.  But make sure that is what you really need.

How is your estrogen level?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Kim
Friday, April 15, 2011, 6:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I used both the progesterone and estrogen creams until I saw an article by Dr. Janet Lang and the Dr. Mercola saying that the creams stay stored in our fat and just release at will.  Supposedly, you can be doing fine with them and then all of a sudden they release what is in the fat stores and then your hormones can be way off making you not feel well.

It scared me enough to get my hormones prescribed sublingually.  Any one out there heard of this?
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Jesi
Friday, April 15, 2011, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok I am glad I checked with you guys first. I almost went and got th ecream last night but decided to just look at the boxes and ask first. This hunter likes to "shoot first and ask questions later", but I am learning my lesson.  

So these were my levels on February 15th (last time I had them checked, 5 months after being off birth control):

progesterone: 0.96
estradiol 6: 140.00
DHEA: 261.8
Testosterone: 41.5

I do not know what phase I was in, since the amounts change depending on what day of the cycle you get your blood drawn...in February I missed my period because he had me on too much of the thyroid supplement and I was hyperthyroid for a few months.

Looking at it though, maybe I should just go get them checked again with the saliva test. I'm just going crazy here. I break out along my jaw now and I am just sick and tired of it. I've been battling this since last year (let's not even mention the weight gain!) and I just want it to go away.

I think maybe though the progesterone cream thing might be something that I need to get checked first and not play around with. Does insurance normally cover the saliva test for someone my age?

Victoria that's funny you say that about the maca...it didn't even occur to me that it could be making it worse.








"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well". Psalm 139

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Kim
Friday, April 15, 2011, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It depends on your insurance plan.  Mine didn't cover it but I could submit it to my medical spending account (pre-tax) and get reimbursed.
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maukik
Friday, April 15, 2011, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kim
I used both the progesterone and estrogen creams until I saw an article by Dr. Janet Lang and the Dr. Mercola saying that the creams stay stored in our fat and just release at will.  Supposedly, you can be doing fine with them and then all of a sudden they release what is in the fat stores and then your hormones can be way off making you not feel well.

It scared me enough to get my hormones prescribed sublingually.  Any one out there heard of this?


Yes.  I have been using sublingual for a couple of years now.  I used creams for many years and pellets a year and a half.  

I prefer sublingual.  You don't have to worry about the cream getting on your clothes, taking a bath soon after you had just applied the cream or sweating it off in a work out.  
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Victoria
Friday, April 15, 2011, 9:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jesi

So these were my levels on February 15th (last time I had them checked, 5 months after being off birth control):

progesterone: 0.96
estradiol 6: 140.00
DHEA: 261.8
Testosterone: 41.5

Looking at it though, maybe I should just go get them checked again with the saliva test. I'm just going crazy here. I break out along my jaw now and I am just sick and tired of it. I've been battling this since last year (let's not even mention the weight gain!) and I just want it to go away.

I think maybe though the progesterone cream thing might be something that I need to get checked first and not play around with. Does insurance normally cover the saliva test for someone my age?

Victoria that's funny you say that about the maca...it didn't even occur to me that it could be making it worse.


I don't know what the test numbers mean.  Do you have a list of normal ranges?
I think progesterone is the only one that needs to be tested via saliva.

At your age, and especially since you were on the BC pill, it seems like a good idea to track where your hormones are, before you start on Progesterone cream.  And when you've been on BC pills, it can take many months to become balanced again.

I personally love Maca and what it does for my body.  I don't know that it is making it worse for you.  Just take a look and see what direction your hormones have moved since February.

"Maca has several neat qualities, it blocks estrogen, increases progesterone levels, helps make testosterone (though the studies say it does not. I’ll explain in a bit). Maca undoes the thing that inactivates testosterone and progesterone (i.e. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) which increases free testosterone levels (the important number to have counted as opposed to the total testosterone number)."  William Wong N.D.




Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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narnia
Friday, April 15, 2011, 9:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would love to hear more about the sublingual progesterone.  I've been using the cream for years and I'm not liking what I'm reading here about it being stored in the fat cells and releasing at any random time.

How does one get rid of what's been stored in the fat cells?  

Where do I get a saliva test for my hormone levels?


"Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching, sing as if no one were listening, and live every day as if it were paradise!!!  "

"A thankful and merry heart works like good medicine!"  
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Kim
Friday, April 15, 2011, 9:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My doctor had the kit for the saliva test and the lab was Diagnostechs in Washington state.  The sublingual lozenges or Troches are more expensive than the creams by quite a bit.  One drawback to the sublinguals is that you can't adjust your dose like you can with the cream.  
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Patty H
Friday, April 15, 2011, 9:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maybe a good idea would be for you to track your hormones levels through at least one or two cycles before you decide you need progesterone.

I tried the progesterone cream, but it didn't do much for me because as it turns out, I am estrogen deficient, as confirmed by my tests and Dr. Nash.  I think going to someone who can work with you to get your hormones into balance is advised.  You can really mess things up when you start playing with your hormones.


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Kim
Friday, April 15, 2011, 9:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes it is a good idea to know what your levels are and work with a doctor.  I did not want to do bio identical hormones, but the symptoms just kept getting worse. Hoping I won't need them anymore once GTD kicks in.  
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nowishow
Friday, April 15, 2011, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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Patty H
Friday, April 15, 2011, 10:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kim
Yes it is a good idea to know what your levels are and work with a doctor.  I did not want to do bio identical hormones, but the symptoms just kept getting worse. Hoping I won't need them anymore once GTD kicks in.  


You'll have to let us know how that goes, vacowgirl.  I have been on the diet for six months but still needed the bio-identical hormones.  I have been on them a little over a month now and I am finally SLEEPING and it is glorious!!!   I wake up in the morning THANKFUL for a good night's sleep!  It is important to celebrate the little things in life  


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Possum
Friday, April 15, 2011, 10:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from jayneeo
I use it even tho I'm 63....I think it helps me sleep...?
Have you tried doing without to check...You may be taking it without needing it by now especially in light of in not being good to take it too much...
Quoted from Victoria
It is possible to overdo the progesterone, so you don't have to use the amounts suggested on the package. But make sure that is what you really need.



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maukik
Friday, April 15, 2011, 10:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kim
My doctor had the kit for the saliva test and the lab was Diagnostechs in Washington state.  The sublingual lozenges or Troches are more expensive than the creams by quite a bit.  One drawback to the sublinguals is that you can't adjust your dose like you can with the cream.  


It was actually much cheaper for me to go to a troche.  I was buying 3 creams.  The troche combined all of them for the price of what I paid for one cream.  I have taken some form of bio-identicals for several years.  Started with progesterone at about age 39-40.  Added estrogen about age 51, then very shortly after added a little testosterone.  At first it was better for me to use creams to get regulated and pretty sure of a dose.  My doctor does only bioidenticals now.  He used to be a very respected ob-gyn in the nearby large city.  I will have a test next week, my every 6 month test, and adjust the troche if needed.
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Victoria
Friday, April 15, 2011, 11:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from narnia
I would love to hear more about the sublingual progesterone.  I've been using the cream for years and I'm not liking what I'm reading here about it being stored in the fat cells and releasing at any random time.

How does one get rid of what's been stored in the fat cells?  

Where do I get a saliva test for my hormone levels?


I use about 1/2 the amount that the package recommends.

There was a real trend in the past decade for women to over-use Progesterone cream because it didn't require a prescription and it does so many good things.  Women were turning up with levels that were too high, so it's important to -

1.  Not exceed the recommended amount.
2.  Leave off a few days per month - anywhere from 5 days to 2 weeks, depending on if pre - or post-menopausal and what the levels in the body are.
3.  Monitor your body's level of hormones - especially if you are going to use any form of hormone supplementation.

It's not necessarily bad or harmful to use Progesterone cream.  Just don't look at it as hand cream.  I've seen women slather it all over their hands and arms!  

The body will dump the excess if permitted to do so; that is, if we are not continuing to use more than the body needs.  That's why I use 50% of what is suggested.  I've been using it for so long, that's the amount I feel best with.




Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Kim
Saturday, April 16, 2011, 11:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maukik,

What compounding lab do you use for your troches?  Women's International Pharmacy charges me $160 for two months of estrogen and progesterone troches.  
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Goldie
Saturday, April 16, 2011, 12:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am not well versed on the cream stuff..I get lazy usng it..

If I was young I would rad Susanne Somers  books.. I loved having my period.. I would have kept it for life if I could have..

today I use 5 HTP to stimulate my liver to 'balance' some hormones.. it might be a cheap over the counter thing, needed as much as you think is needed.. short or long term..  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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maukik
Saturday, April 16, 2011, 2:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kim
Maukik,

What compounding lab do you use for your troches?  Women's International Pharmacy charges me $160 for two months of estrogen and progesterone troches.  


When I first started using creams almost 20 yrs ago, I got them from Women's International Pharmacy.  The doctor I have gone to for the last 10 yrs calls mine into a pharmacy here in NC.  It is called Lowry Drug.  It is a too far for me to drive to for a prescription.  They ship it to me.  It is $50. per month for all estrogen/progesterone/testosterone.  There is actually one in our town that I went to when I was too short on time to have it shipped to me.  They were even less, like $45., but across town.  I am spoiled and like it mailed, so I just get it from Lowry.  

I don't know if they will fill for out of state or not.  You could call them.  If you want their info, let me know.  

You may have more compounding pharmacies around you.  We have several.  One is about $10. more, I am not sure about some of the others.  
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Kim
Saturday, April 16, 2011, 3:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would love the information on Lowry pharmacy.  Most compounding pharmacies are willing to ship.  It just costs so much from the pharmacy I am using now.  I have checked around me and so far, most of the pharmacies out of state are a bit cheaper.  I am in VA so a NC pharmacy shipping would be quick. I agree, love having things mailed to me too.
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maukik
Saturday, April 16, 2011, 6:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lowry Drug
750 Hartness Road
Statesville NC 28677
704-873-2247
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Patty H
Sunday, April 17, 2011, 6:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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My insurance pays for my bio-identical hormones.  I do have to pay the co-pay and on this prescription I get charged the highest co-pay amount, which is $50.  

Do you have health insurance with prescription coverage???


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Kim
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Quoted from Patty H
My insurance pays for my bio-identical hormones.  I do have to pay the co-pay and on this prescription I get charged the highest co-pay amount, which is $50.  

Do you have health insurance with prescription coverage???


I have prescription coverage and have a co-pay but our specific insurance will not cover any compounded drug.  The insurance company said that my husbands company has to select a policy that specifically covers compounded drugs.  The company (Booz Allen) is world wide, but unless enough people ask that compounded drugs be covered, it won't happen. I can submit the cost to our medical spending account which is pre-tax.
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Patty H
Sunday, April 17, 2011, 8:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Too bad, vacowgirl.  That's crazy!  


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Possum
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Quoted from Goldie
today I use 5 HTP to stimulate my liver to 'balance' some hormones.. it might be a cheap over the counter thing, needed as much as you think is needed.. short or long term..  
Does this work?

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Sahara
Saturday, June 18, 2011, 6:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I use otc Lifeflo progesterone,have used for over a year.  I have just discontinued the pill which I was on 7 years to manage early perimenopause symptoms.  My lab tests show low progesterone so I feel fine using it, also I'm 40 so I'm pretty much in perimenopause now.  I use 20-40 mg the 2nd half of my cycle.  I'm menstruating now sorry tmi but whole period was pain free, to me that means it works.
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LindaB
Saturday, June 18, 2011, 10:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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If all of your levels are really high, is that an indication that the liver isn't doing it's job? I need to have mine rechecked but about 2 years ago I had a saliva test and my levels were HIGH...all of them. I was working with a ND at the time and she thought it was my thyroid, but nothing we did made a difference. Of course I wasn't on the BTD then....would appreciate input. I might send off for a retest too.
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Possum
Saturday, June 18, 2011, 11:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Can a regular Dr test your hormone levels? I remember having such extremely painful periods right before they finished for good (last one was around age 44) but most of the time through my life they were never that painful... Never knew it could be related to hormone levels; but makes sense...

I'm particularly interested in Goldie's response as I have some 5HTP & am keen to know if things that unbalanced hormone levels may cause (recently discovered hairs on upper lip - now dealt with *shock/horror*) could be regulated by something like this
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O in Virginia
Sunday, June 19, 2011, 4:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from nowishow


Thanks very much for the link.  I'm reading John Lee's books now.  I've been having issues.  Will look into this.
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Sahara
Sunday, June 19, 2011, 5:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Progesterone is important to consider if you choose to use bioidentical estrogen. It's a cancer preventative from what I've read.  I'm a big believer in bioidentical replacement though.  If I could go back I would have tried to use progesterone more in my early 30s when my periods first became painful.
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Symbi
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to find this thread.  There are many types of cream available and they all seem to promote themselves as the best and adocate high doses (probably to sell more) so what Victoria said about trying half dose first sounds good and get monitored.  I'm also concerned about progesterone being stored in fat.  Read that if you apply it directly into the vagina that may prevent fat storage, it will be absorbed the easiest and the body will think it came from your ovaries.    May try that but hope it doesn't upset the natural ph or other balance of things.

Just found one that said it has just progesterone and coconut oil and info that it is supposedly good for adenomyosis (which I just got diagnosed with through ultrasound   and am waiting to see a gynae about).  However, coconut oil is an avoid on my SWAMI.  Read some info that coconut oil can help clear oestrogen, even so think I'll skip that one!

A few years ago I had my blood test done during the luteal phase and it showed oestrogen too high and progesterone was at the bottom of the scale.  Been having early periods since 35 yo so that is a sign of less progesterone (shorter luteal phase) along with PMS, cystic breasts, and heavy periods with pain and cramping (probably the adenomyosis).  The past few years my iron stores have been low but daily molasses is helping that.
The diet has helped alot cycles have gone towards more regular and lighter, but still I'm looking to try some natural cream rather than artifical progesterones that the doctors will prescribe (and if they don't help then artificial monopause, mirena IUD and finally hysterectomy are the treatment choices.)

I'll keep looking and hope to try some cream soon.  It's going to be expensive for me.  In Australia we are supposed to have a prescription ..   Thankful for everyone recommending creams - exactly what I was hoping to find on here, will check them out.  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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Symbi
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Oh yea turning into a maths genius again to compare the different brands and the dosages per ounces or mls and how many days to take it, how long a bottle will last and how expensive.  Yikes!  

That emerita sounds good with so many natural ingredients!

Just found another one similar but comes in a pre-measured dose for 20mg pump dispenser - sounds convenient http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/PersonalCare/Products/M012546.htm
Withdraw that recommendation, after reading this review - it has so many ingredients I'd probably get migraines from it too:
Quoted Text
"I used it for about six months, and tried a few brands. I don't have money for doctors so I self-treat everything, for better or for worse. The NOW brand was AWFUL--it smelled like dirt and gave me migraines. The Progestacare and Progestelle brands worked great and seemed to alleviate a lot of my perimenopausal and estrogen-dominance symptoms. Progestelle has a good web site with lots of info, but they don't organize the info very well so it can be confusing."  http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/.....t9595887  


Progestelle is the one with coconut see below.  Progestacare sounds interesting http://progestacarestore.com/
contains     Natural Progesterone (USP)
    -Helps balance hormone levels
    -Reduces estrogen dominance
    Tocotrienols (Natural Super Vitamin E)
    -Powerful anti-oxidant
    Primrose Oil
    -Helps reduce PMS symptoms
    Aloe Vera
    -Soothing skin softener
    MSM (Methyl Sulfonyl Methane)
    -Stimulates the immune system
    Grape Seed Extract
    -Powerful anti-oxidant


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism

Revision History (3 edits)
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Saw bad review of NOW Cream added info on other creams
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Patty H
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While John Lee's book is good, it only focused on half the story.  I am estrogen deficient and so the progesterone creams did nothing to relieve my terrible symptoms.  Dr. Uzzi Reiss wrote The Natural Superwoman and that was better for me as it focuses on all the hormones and what symptoms you will have being deficient in each of the hormones.

I see an OB/Gyn who specializes in bio-identical hormones.  My symptoms have totally gone away    I don't know of the availability of bio-identical hormones in Australia, but it would be worth trying to find someone.  If you can find a compounding pharmacy in your area, they could probably tell you the names of the OB/Gyn's who write prescriptions.


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O in Virginia
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I'm going to look for your book rec, Patty H.  Thanks for sharing.
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Victoria
Wednesday, July 6, 2011, 3:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Symbi, do you have more info on the progesterone in coconut oil product?  That sounds interesting.  Is it transdermal or meant to be ingested?  If it is applied externally, it is not the same as eating an avoid.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
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ruthiegirl
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Quoted from Symbi

Just found one that said it has just progesterone and coconut oil and info that it is supposedly good for adenomyosis (which I just got diagnosed with through ultrasound   and am waiting to see a gynae about).  However, coconut oil is an avoid on my SWAMI.  Read some info that coconut oil can help clear oestrogen, even so think I'll skip that one!


What coconut oil can do when you ingest it is different from what it can do topically. When you put it on the vagina, it's just an oil- it can  be used as a lubricant or (as in this case) a carrier oil for a medicine. I can't imagine you'd be using very much at once.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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I highly recommend Dr. John Lee's books.  The best way to measure for progesterone levels is by saliva testing.  I have been using progesterone cream for the last 10 years and certainly would have used it before that if I had known about it.  And I definitely would have used both estrogen and progesterone creams  in balance if only I had the knowledge about it when I was going through menopause.  The ZRT lab is my lab of choice.
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honeybee
Wednesday, July 6, 2011, 9:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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*subscribing to this thread*

p.s symbi - i am checking out this website atm
http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com.au/
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Symbi
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Thanks everyone <3 Ruthiegirl, Victoria and all this page http://www.adeno101.com/getprog.htm recommended the coconut oil progesterone oil (not cream) (Progestelle) http://www.womhoo.com/  

Good tip Patty H I have contacted one of the manufacturers in Australia to ask for doctors names no answer yet though also looked up integrative physicians and environmental doctors may be great but beyond my price range atm.  

Honeybee cute name one nickname of mine is busybee - good site that.  For you and other Aussies  found two manufacturers of natural progesterone cream (apparently derived from soy in Australia).  Legally these are the only choices since we need a prescription.  Customs may block imports of hormones apparently  :

  • http://www.lawleypharm.com.au/
    Make ProFeme - lots of good product information on their site and easy dosing with a measured applicator but see how many artificial ingredients in the cream.


I'll be trying the cream with the least ingredients first cos I'm reactive to many things.


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism

Revision History (3 edits)
Symbi  -  Thursday, July 7, 2011, 1:47am
Symbi  -  Thursday, July 7, 2011, 1:42am
Symbi  -  Thursday, July 7, 2011, 1:41am
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Symbi
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Sorry for being a forum hog, international mates  .  Here's a clarification on the law in Australia from that good website the http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com

Quoted Text
Can I buy my cream overseas without a script?

Yes, providing it’s only a 3-month supply, and it’s for personal use only. Otherwise, you’ll require a doctor’s prescription. Australian Customs may intercept your package, check to ensure you hold a current prescription, and if you do not, instigate legal action. Many women have reported that their packaging was opened and inspected by Customs. So be warned. If you intend to source your cream from overseas, we recommend you obtain a prescription. And please be aware, the law only permits importation for personal use (this includes family members only). You are NOT permitted to distribute cream to others.

Again, the above specifications DO NOT apply to the USA and other countries where no such drug laws imposed on progesterone exist. http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com/drug-laws-in-various-countries/


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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honeybee
Thursday, July 7, 2011, 2:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I read about Lawley (export only) also, but this is a compounding chemist in NSW offering natural progesterone creme or troche (prescription required) ..

http://www.visionarychemist.com.au/faqs/

Wonder how they are circumventing the law or am I missing something  


Have you done a saliva hormone test Symbi?

I ordered a saliva test for hormone profile --- anyone know which time of cycle is best for taking the test? I found the info a while ago but lost it and now confused lol
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jeanb
Thursday, July 7, 2011, 12:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I tried progesterone cream for about 8 months (with saliva testing) from my doctor.  The testing showed my body didn't absorb progesterone from the cream all that well. So I was switched to sub-lingual and then to outright pill form.

The pill form seems to work the best for me, I sleep really well at night and my periods are under control.  The monthly PMS when I would become a raging dragon is gone as well as sore breasts etc.  I have been taking a form of progesterone for about 14-15 years (since last kid) and I sincerely am grateful for it each day (the men in my house are grateful as well, no raging when they are sitting around in their underwear!!!)

I like Uzzi Reiss books, he gets into hormones deeper than Lee.  Reiss talks about all of the hormones and how they affect one during various stages of life.
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Symbi
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G'day Honeybee (make me hungry thinking of honey now!),

Thanks for the info.  So long as you have a script for hormones in Australia she'll be apples.
I have financial constraints that are holding me back and will probably avoid a compounding chemist for that reason.  Having to go to a special doctor for a script too .  Though, it's probably good that we don't have hormones wily nily here, we don't have them added to our meats as much as other countries, e.g. no hormones in our chicken ever.  

Not sure about saliva testing read it can be very variable depending on time of day, what you ate etc.  I already have proof through a blood test and wish my GP picked up on that 2 years ago!  Prevention is not in their vocab


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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Patty H
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Symbi, my insurance here in the US does cover my visits to my hormone specialist and while my bio-identical hormones (BHRT) are covered, I pay the highest amount for the prescription, which is $50 per month.  My blood tests are not covered.  My OB/Gyn does not use saliva testing.  I am not sure if that would be covered.  I doubt it.

Finances are always an issue, but your hormones rule everything.  If you can figure out a way to have it covered or to find the money to get the services, I would highly recommend you work on that.  It can mean the difference between health and poor health.  All of my tests results changed when my hormones were out of whack, so I have spent so much more money on different stuff that maybe could have been avoided with getting my hormones regulated.

It has taken the BHRT, diet and consistent exercise to bring my body back into balance.  Sometimes you need to spend the money to save money, but only you know your circumstances and I am totally aware and understanding of that.  Sending you healing thoughts  


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O in Virginia
Friday, July 8, 2011, 1:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Question:  Is it true, as I've read in John Lee's books, that a blood test for progesterone is not really a good indicator of actual available progesterone levels, and that a saliva test is the better way to go?  Just wondering whether an improved blood test has evolved since his books were written.  I called my MD's office to see whether they did a saliva test, and was told they do not.
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Symbi
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Thanks Patty H!   Hormones are very important.  The SWAMI diet has helped not that I've followed it perfectly.  When I do follow it well my periods are lighter and more on time.  It's improved oestrogen clearance I'm sure - it helps detox (including foods that improve oestrogen clearance such as broccoli, turmeric, rosemary, garlic, dark green leafy vegetables) and cuts out oestrogenic foods like soy while keeping the bowels regular helps too.  Now I have adenomyosis it's a big priority.

I made an appointment with an integrative physican (also GP) next week  http://www.naturaltherapypages.com.au/therapist/drrobynjames/8198 who prescribes bio-identical hormones .  After medicare refund I won't be out of pocket much at all. Hopes are high.  So glad to find her and she is located close by.  Wasn't going to ask a normal GP as they probably would look at me like I speak gobbligook - ( do on occasion  ).  Looking at cutting expenses in other ways cos I think the cream will cost a bit and I don't have insurance, medicare won't cover it.  True what you say health is they key to everything.

To find a doctor - this page was helpful linking to many professional associations internationally: http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com/how-to-find-a-doctor/

O in Virginia - dunno which tests are better but do know it's important WHEN you have them in relation to your cycle.  If you are lacking in progesterone and have early cycles like me best time to test is during the luteal cycle (between ovulation and your period).  Other problems need different testing times, hope your doctor will point in the right direction there.

BTW it annoys me that all the gynae tests I've had done (hormone blood test, pelvic ultrasound, breast ultrasound) they don't note on the report which part of the cycle you are in, though the ultrasound tech asked me, probably because they found fluid in the pouch of douglas and a disolving follicle - hopefully normal since I'd recently ovulated.  "Dr Google is your friend!"  

For the blood test there's a list of different ranges for the parts of the cycle: Follicular phase, midcycle peak, luteal phase, and a different range for post-menopausal.  Because the phase wasn't marked, GP glanced at it and saw oestradiol 620, progesterone 32 (nmol/L). The range for Oestradiol goes 400 - 1400 during midpeak, down to 200 - 600 during luteal and progesterone 20 - 110).  GP said "you don't have too much oestrogen - oestrogen is a good thing"!  huh!   That test was done 2009 so I'll probably need a new one, we'll see.  Be interested to see if this GP believes in saliva testing too.


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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O in Virginia
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Quoted Text
"Dr Google is your friend!"  


I hear that!  Seems like my only reliable source of info at times...which is scary.

Good luck with your appointiment, Symbi.
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honeybee
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Good news, interested to hear how you go also Symbi...
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Kim
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There are several labs that do the saliva tests.  For some reason most of my doctors use DiagnosTechs.  I have heard of ZRT and also the Canary Club has discounts if you want to order the test yourself.  No idea who is better though.
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Patty H
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Quoted from O in Virginia
Question:  Is it true, as I've read in John Lee's books, that a blood test for progesterone is not really a good indicator of actual available progesterone levels, and that a saliva test is the better way to go?  Just wondering whether an improved blood test has evolved since his books were written.  I called my MD's office to see whether they did a saliva test, and was told they do not.


As I stated in one of my earlier posts, my specialist only uses blood tests and they seem to be accurate, as she has based the prescription of BHRT upon the results of my blood tests and all of my terrible symptoms have resolved.

I read that in Dr Lee's book as well, but frankly, I was glad to find someone who specialized in the bio-identicals who has been doing it for over 20 years, so I figure she knows what she is doing.  I decided not to rock the boat on that one!  


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Sahara
Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 4:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Yes I read this also and Elizabeth Vliets books.  I have managed to obtain estrogen otc from Lifeflo, I really need it.   My symptoms are manageable but I have interrupted sleep after 5-6 hours.
Quoted from Patty H
While John Lee's book is good, it only focused on half the story.  I am estrogen deficient and so the progesterone creams did nothing to relieve my terrible symptoms.  Dr. Uzzi Reiss wrote The Natural Superwoman and that was better for me as it focuses on all the hormones and what symptoms you will have being deficient in each of the hormones.

I see an OB/Gyn who specializes in bio-identical hormones.  My symptoms have totally gone away    I don't know of the availability of bio-identical hormones in Australia, but it would be worth trying to find someone.  If you can find a compounding pharmacy in your area, they could probably tell you the names of the OB/Gyn's who write prescriptions.


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O in Virginia
Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 5:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Patty H


As I stated in one of my earlier posts, my specialist only uses blood tests and they seem to be accurate, as she has based the prescription of BHRT upon the results of my blood tests and all of my terrible symptoms have resolved.

I read that in Dr Lee's book as well, but frankly, I was glad to find someone who specialized in the bio-identicals who has been doing it for over 20 years, so I figure she knows what she is doing.  I decided not to rock the boat on that one!  


That's good to know, Patty.  I rescheduled my annual appt. for two weeks from now.  It was originally for Monday of this week, but I felt TOM coming so I rescheduled.  I'm looking forward to discussing bioidenticals with him.  Hopefully, he is up on that subject.  

I borrowed The Natural Superwoman from the libary based on your rec, and I have only browsed through it thus far, but there is no way I am estrogen deficient.  I'm pretty sure my case is one of progesterone deficiency or imbalance.  We shall see.  Soon, I hope it will get clearer and clearer (and better and better!!).  
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Patty H
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Quoted from O in Virginia


That's good to know, Patty.  I rescheduled my annual appt. for two weeks from now.  It was originally for Monday of this week, but I felt TOM coming so I rescheduled.  I'm looking forward to discussing bioidenticals with him.  Hopefully, he is up on that subject.  

I borrowed The Natural Superwoman from the libary based on your rec, and I have only browsed through it thus far, but there is no way I am estrogen deficient.  I'm pretty sure my case is one of progesterone deficiency or imbalance.  We shall see.  Soon, I hope it will get clearer and clearer (and better and better!!).  


Good for you!  It is best to go in to your appointment with as much knowledge as possible.  If your doctor does prescribe or is not familiar with bio-identical hormones, I would ask for a referral to someone who is.  It might even help if you do the research on your own and ask for a referral.  It is a fairly specialized field.  Many doctors are only familiar with the syntheic hormones.  I cannot recommend them, myself.


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O in Virginia
Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 5:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No, I don't want to (won't) go the synthetic route.  We'll see how it goes in a couple of weeks.  
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Victoria
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The N.D.'s in my city consider blood testing to be inaccurate when looking at progesterone.  Most use the saliva tests, with blood tests for the other hormones.  One N.D. I know, uses urine tests for progesterone;  blood tests for all other hormones.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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~Mary Jean Irion
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honeybee
Thursday, July 14, 2011, 10:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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That is interesting Victoria.

Do you still like maca for hormone balancing?...
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Symbi
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Update: My new doctor was good but maybe I had tmi and problems for her to keep up with. Me = Typical Explorer! She would like to do blood tests and saliva tests, saying that blood tests can show if you're in a diseased state, but saliva tests are more accurate to show a state of health and help balance.  I can't afford the saliva tests (not covered by medicare at all) so just bloods for now.

Testing all kinds of hormones, homocysteine (cos my Dad had an early heart attack) and thyroid thoroughly including antibodies.  Just recently I started to suspect hypothyroid because I've been borderline hypothyroid before and have high ANA, TSH recently 2.6 (she said the reference range here is 5 but that's for a disease state - under 2 is for optimal health).  I have so many hypothyroid symptoms including constipation (if I let it), wanting to sleep all day and feeling very cold, tender around throat.  

She said my adenomyosis is endometriosis in another place and I probably have more of those that couldn't be seen in the ultrasound too.  Once we have my results she said some herbs I can take to shrink them (vitex is 1 I enquired) and progesterone will help my symptoms but may not solve all my problems.  Best of all I won't need to have a hysterectomy.  Not your typical doctor I'm glad to say.  Never spent an hour with a doctor before either!


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

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maukik
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One route is to locate a compounding pharmacy in your area, have them test you (sometimes they do this with just a questionnaire for symptoms themselves, sometimes they send it off to others), they evaluate that and recommend your doctor (a GP will do) write the prescriptions for you.  Most doctors will go along with what the pharmacy recommends because they don't have knowledge of bioidenticals themselves.  This can be a fairly economical route.  Your doctor may want to do labwork first.  Insurance will usually pay for the labwork and your regular GP appt.  Most won't pay for compounds.
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Victoria
Friday, July 15, 2011, 5:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from honeybee
That is interesting Victoria.

Do you still like maca for hormone balancing?...


Yes, I take about 1/2 tsp./day of maca powder.  I like the steamed or roasted version rather than the raw.  Plus the Fem Balance as an addition to Progesterone cream and Estriol cream.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Symbi
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Thanks maukik - always interested in economical options.  Never thought of that one!


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ruthiegirl
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Quoted from Patty H
While John Lee's book is good, it only focused on half the story.  I am estrogen deficient and so the progesterone creams did nothing to relieve my terrible symptoms.  Dr. Uzzi Reiss wrote The Natural Superwoman and that was better for me as it focuses on all the hormones and what symptoms you will have being deficient in each of the hormones.


I just reserved that book from the  public library.

I tried to look for "Dr John Lee's books" but there are too many entries under "author: Lee, John" and I couldn't figure out which was the one I was looking for. Oh, never mind. After clicking on a few dozen John Lee's, I found the right one.

Do his books ONLY talk about supplementing with hormones, to the exclusion of all other treatments?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Ruthiegirl, re: John Lee's book, this is probably what would suit you the best: "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About(TM): Premenopause: Balance Your Hormones and Your Life from Thirty to Fifty"
While he wrote a lot about supplementing with bio-identical hormones, he also wrote extensively about other treatments including herbal supplements.


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Quoted from Victoria


Yes, I take about 1/2 tsp./day of maca powder.  I like the steamed or roasted version rather than the raw.  Plus the Fem Balance as an addition to Progesterone cream and Estriol cream.


Hi Victoria, I also take some maca powder every day, 1 tsp/day. Can you tell us why you prefer the steamed or roasted version vs. the raw? I think my is the raw version.


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At one point I did a lot of reading on Maca and was convinced by what I read that the steamed or roasted was better assimilated.  I haven't done much researching on it in a year or two, so I suppose more info could be out there, but I'm not a person who assumes *raw* is better.  I believe I read that the way it was eaten for centuries was actually prepared as food -- cooked, baked, roasted, fried, etc.  Raw is more common in stores, however.



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Quoted from balletomane
Ruthiegirl, re: John Lee's book, this is probably what would suit you the best: "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About(TM): Premenopause: Balance Your Hormones and Your Life from Thirty to Fifty"
While he wrote a lot about supplementing with bio-identical hormones, he also wrote extensively about other treatments including herbal supplements.


My library doesn't seem to have that one (unless it's listed under a different John Lee than his other books.) The options here are "Dr Lee's Hormone Balance made simple", "the estrogen alternative" "What your doctor may not tell you about breast cancer" and "What your doctor may not tell you about menopause" (both the 1996 and 2004 versions.)

OK, doing a library search for the word "premenopause" found it.  That one was listed under "Lee, John R" while the others were listed under "Lee, John R., MD"   There are literally 12 different authors named John Lee and another 6 Jon or Jonothan.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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balletomane
Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 5:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If your library doesn't carry the one on premenopause, the one on menopause would be helpful too. I have read the "Hormone Made Simple" one but it is a very stripped-down version, basically tips on hands-on application of bio-identical hormones, so it wouldn't be a good first read on his ideas.


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Quoted from Victoria
At one point I did a lot of reading on Maca and was convinced by what I read that the steamed or roasted was better assimilated.  I haven't done much researching on it in a year or two, so I suppose more info could be out there, but I'm not a person who assumes *raw* is better.  I believe I read that the way it was eaten for centuries was actually prepared as food -- cooked, baked, roasted, fried, etc.  Raw is more common in stores, however.


Oh, I see. I guess I should do some research on this, too. I don't know how much it has been helping me, as I am taking FemBalance and Aromastat at the same time, as well as bio-identical progesterone cream.


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Quoted from balletomane
If your library doesn't carry the one on premenopause, the one on menopause would be helpful too. I have read the "Hormone Made Simple" one but it is a very stripped-down version, basically tips on hands-on application of bio-identical hormones, so it wouldn't be a good first read on his ideas.


They do carry the one on pre-menopause, but I didn't find it at first. It wasn't listed in the books by "Lee, John R., MD" because it was listed under "Lee, John R." I just reserved the premenopause  book and cancelled my reservation for "Hormones Made Simple." I'm also reserving The Natural Superwoman.

I'm not sure when I'll get to either of them  because a novel I've been waiting for is finally "in transit" so I may ignore all other books while reading "The Land of Painted Caves." Earlier this summer I read the first 5 books in that series, and have been waiting for the 6th and final one to be available.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Great, thanks for the link Victoria. I checked the website of my maca powder and it turns out to be a cooked version that I have been consuming... it says "After harvest, the maca roots are gelatinized and milled: a process that concentrates the active ingredients through a heated extrusion to remove the starch."
Yipppee!


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Quoted from ruthiegirl


They do carry the one on pre-menopause, but I didn't find it at first. It wasn't listed in the books by "Lee, John R., MD" because it was listed under "Lee, John R." I just reserved the premenopause  book and cancelled my reservation for "Hormones Made Simple." I'm also reserving The Natural Superwoman.

I'm not sure when I'll get to either of them  because a novel I've been waiting for is finally "in transit" so I may ignore all other books while reading "The Land of Painted Caves." Earlier this summer I read the first 5 books in that series, and have been waiting for the 6th and final one to be available.


Glad the pre-menopausal book is available in your library.

Enjoy your summer reading!  



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Victoria
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YAY on the Maca, dear ballerina!  



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OK, I got some black currant oil yesterday. It's the only source of GLA that's a superfood on my SWAMI. How much should I be taking?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
OK, I got some black currant oil yesterday. It's the only source of GLA that's a superfood on my SWAMI. How much should I be taking?


Wow, would love to try that, not avail here. What is the taste like?

This doesn't help you, but in the fem-balance protocol for type B:
Black Currant seed oil capsules, 500 mg: 2-3 capsules, daily  
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It's a capsule- it doesnt' ahve any taste. I did chew one up to make sure it wasn't rancid (I read about that years ago to test the freshness of fish oil capsules) and it was almost tasteless, but with a  very mild berry flavor.

The bottle said to take 1 capsule, 3 times a day, and I'm wondering if it matters if I take it 3 times a day or take 3 at once in the morning when I take my other supplements.

It just occurred to me that I only checked the supplement area of the store, and I didn't look in the "gourmet oils" section to see if they had any in liquid form over there. I'll have to check that out the next time I'm able to wander the store and look for things (as opposed to rushing through with DS in tow, grabbing one or two specific items.)


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
OK, I got some black currant oil yesterday. It's the only source of GLA that's a superfood on my SWAMI. How much should I be taking?


Ruthie, Dr. Nash has me on Black Currant Oil.  I take one 2x per day, although I generally take both together, as I can get too busy and if I don't take them all at once, I will forget.  Each gelcap contains 100 mg.

I am glad you were able to find both Dr. Lee's book on premenopause and Uzzi Reiss' book, The Natural Superwoman.  Uzzi Reiss goes into a huge variety of hormones, some of which I would not use, such as Human Growth Hormone, but the reason I really like his book is that he has quizzes for each hormone that you take to see if supplementing with that particular hormone is appropriate.  I was using Dr. Lee's progesterone cream and it did nothing for me.  Come to find out, I am estrogen deficient and it was clear after I took the quiz in Dr. Reiss's book.  Then my hormone testing confirmed it.  

One word of caution, ladies.  Please do not mess with your hormones on your own.  They require a very delicate balance and should be done by a doctor or naturopath.  I was fortunate to have one of the premier specialists in bio-identical hormones fairly close to home!


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Does it matter if the black currant oil is taken with food or without food? I know vitamin D is best absorbed with dietary fat, is the same true of this oil?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Does it matter if the black currant oil is taken with food or without food? I know vitamin D is best absorbed with dietary fat, is the same true of this oil?


Ruthie, I checked my printout and it does not specify.  I do take my supplements after a meal because I take enough of them that they can cause stomach upset on an empty stomach.


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Thanks for reminding me Ruthie - been waiting for the next book by Jean M Auel for it seems ages!  So engrossing, entertaining and thought provoking. Funny, there were ads for it at the train stations - they are like painted caves and we haven't changed much since the cave days IMHO!  

I went off Evening Primrose Oil for a week so that it wouldn't affect my hormone test (serum) after checking with Dr, cos it lowers prolactin.  Then I got the worse PMS, moody with lumpy engorged breasts.  I really need that stuff (GLA)!       Dr told me to have the test on day 21 which was my birthday so I had it on day 20 close enough I reckon (she also reckons average cycle is 29 days - when I was regular mine was 28  )

Back on it   - switched to borage (starflower) oil small bottle I got on sale (should try your rancidity test thanks RG) and am hoping it won't affect my liver badly as the one I got isn't "certified free of unsaturated pyrrolizidine alkaloids because of their potential liver toxicity"  http://www.holistic-herbalist.com/borage-oil-a.html  Supposedly the highest amount of GLA in any plant but I'm getting some funny sensations and aftertaste so might not be good.

Hanging to find the results of my test and more info later in the week.  I should look for Dr Lee's books too I think there's only the menopause one at my library.  Hope they didn't put his name different ways too!  


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Borage seed oil is either neutral or a black dot, depending on secretor status. Evening primrose oil is an avoid either way. So that's why I got the black currant seed oil; that's the only beneficial oil on the "high in GLA" list.

How do those three oils rate on your SWAMI? It could be that the type of oil you purchased isn't as good a choice for you. It also could be rancid- especially likely if it was on clearance when you  bought it.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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How does Borage oil rate on your SWAMI, Symbi?  It is a toxin on the book Explorer diet.



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It's neutral - thanks for caring.  Just have enough for 10 days, so it won't harm me too much.  Black currant oil is a diamond and EPO a superfood.  So no wonder!  Haven't seen BCO around, that would be the best.

Just checking the library and they have:
What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause : balance your hormones and your life from thirty to fifty / John R. Lee, Jesse Hanley, and Virginia Hopkins.

and
The natural superwoman : the scientifically backed program for feeling great, looking younger, and enjoying amazing energy at any age / Uzzi Reiss and Yfat Reiss    
reserved both and one other - who knew they'd have 10 books on perimenopause!


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OK, the large print edition fo The Land of Painted Caves is available, along with the two books on peri-menopause that I reserved. Of course, I managed to finish the book (not large print, reserved on DD2's account) last night, so I  won't be needing the large print version.

It was a fun read, but the ending didn't really leave me satisfied. I know somebody told me that this was "book 6 of 6 planned books" but I think there may be a 7th book still to be written. Or perhaps a spin-off series in the same world, but with Ayla not the central character.

So I want to get to the library for those peri-menopause books, but DD2 is still sleeping and will want to pick out books later.  I don't want to go there twice.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Sign of the times, I guess . . .


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That sounds disappointing.  Endings are always difficult I guess - expectations and all.  

I ordered the large print too cos there are 50 people waiting for the normal ones!  Have stopped using reading glasses and look forward to the next eye test to confirm - I think my eyes are getting better!  One is lazy - my eye that is!


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OK, I got both books. I read "what your doctor may not tell you about premenopuase" first. I'm a little bit confused by some of the information in there. If "estrogen dominance" is the problem with PMS, then why do the symptoms always start right after ovulation, when progesterone is supposed to be released? Why don't I get "PMS-like" symptoms in the first half of the cycle.

I can never be 100% certain if I ovulate or not, but I do notice a definite shift in hormones around mid-cycle; one day my cervix is high and soft, and I have lots of fertile mucus, and the next the mucus is gone, my cervix is firmer and lower, and I suddenly feel a bit crankier and sore- even when it's subtle, I can always tell when I shift into the 2nd half of my cycle. Would I get such sudden hormone shifts if i don't make enough estrogen to ovulate that month?

And the craziest part has to be "we know it can't be from the progesterone, because progesterone levels are higher in pregnant women and women dont' get these symptoms in pregnancy?" Um, really? It's obvious to me that Dr John Lee has never been pregnant. What symptoms am I not supposed to get in pregnancy? Sore breasts? Bloating? Irritability? I got all of those while pregnant! Early pregnancy has always been maddeningly similar to PMS, and with my first, it felt like "super intense PMS that started earlier than usual and then my period never came."

I'm now starting to wonder if any of Dr Lee's explanations on "how hormones make you feel" apply to me at all. I was incredibly frustrated during the descriptions of "normal cycles" when he stated that ovulation can occur anywhere from day 3 to 14 (huh? only until day 14? Day 14 is about the earliest I've ever ovulated, and as late as day 21 used to be normal for me!) and then he  goes on to say that the time from ovulation until menstruation is always around 14 days. (Ok then, Mr Expert, then why on Earth am I getting 16 day luteal phases? What hormonal shift/imbalance does THAT signify?)


I've peeked at "the natural superwoman." The title kind of bugs me, because being a "superwoman" seems anthetical to "setting boundaries and being balanced" which is what the book is about, but overall it seems like great information and will probably help me with DD2's insomnia as well.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Quoted from ruthiegirl
OK, I got both books. I read "what your doctor may not tell you about premenopuase" first. I'm a little bit confused by some of the information in there. If "estrogen dominance" is the problem with PMS, then why do the symptoms always start right after ovulation, when progesterone is supposed to be released? Why don't I get "PMS-like" symptoms in the first half of the cycle.

I can never be 100% certain if I ovulate or not, but I do notice a definite shift in hormones around mid-cycle; one day my cervix is high and soft, and I have lots of fertile mucus, and the next the mucus is gone, my cervix is firmer and lower, and I suddenly feel a bit crankier and sore- even when it's subtle, I can always tell when I shift into the 2nd half of my cycle. Would I get such sudden hormone shifts if i don't make enough estrogen to ovulate that month?

And the craziest part has to be "we know it can't be from the progesterone, because progesterone levels are higher in pregnant women and women dont' get these symptoms in pregnancy?" Um, really? It's obvious to me that Dr John Lee has never been pregnant. What symptoms am I not supposed to get in pregnancy? Sore breasts? Bloating? Irritability? I got all of those while pregnant! Early pregnancy has always been maddeningly similar to PMS, and with my first, it felt like "super intense PMS that started earlier than usual and then my period never came."

I'm now starting to wonder if any of Dr Lee's explanations on "how hormones make you feel" apply to me at all. I was incredibly frustrated during the descriptions of "normal cycles" when he stated that ovulation can occur anywhere from day 3 to 14 (huh? only until day 14? Day 14 is about the earliest I've ever ovulated, and as late as day 21 used to be normal for me!) and then he  goes on to say that the time from ovulation until menstruation is always around 14 days. (Ok then, Mr Expert, then why on Earth am I getting 16 day luteal phases? What hormonal shift/imbalance does THAT signify?)


I've peeked at "the natural superwoman." The title kind of bugs me, because being a "superwoman" seems anthetical to "setting boundaries and being balanced" which is what the book is about, but overall it seems like great information and will probably help me with DD2's insomnia as well.


Ruthie, that is why I recommended The Natural Superwoman.  While I did not have the PMS during pregnancy and the different cycles you had, Dr. Lee's book is a somewhat "one size fits all"  approach.  I am not estrogen dominant, so the book was not relevant at all to me.  There are some good things, however, regarding limiting estrogen from outside sources, etc.

The Natural Superwoman is the book that really helped me pinpoint my problem of estrogen deficiency.  The quiz for that has 26 questions and he states that if you answer yes to two or more of the questions, you may be estrogen deficient.  I answered yes to 21 of the 26.  My blood tests confirmed that I was estrogen deficient.

You may find that you are not estrogen dominant, which is the main focus of Dr. Lee's book.  One thing I do remember about his book is that he describes a scenario where women still get a period but they are not really ovulating.  Maybe that is why your cycles seem so irregular?

Personally, when I read these books, I try and find what is relevant and interesting and new to me and I punt the rest!  


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I was still trying to make sense of what Dr Lee was saying about the causes of PMS though. It made sense while I was reading it, but then when I thought about it later, it ceased to make sense. It was DD2 who pointed out "if they're wrong about the days a woman can ovulate, what else is he wrong about?" It's a minor detail, but it does make me question his knowledge of the subject.

I should probably get off the computer and pick up that copy of The Natural Superwoman.

Scratch that. DD1 just called and she'll be home in a few minutes, and will need help with all her stuff. No time to read now.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 8:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I was still trying to make sense of what Dr Lee was saying about the causes of PMS though. It made sense while I was reading it, but then when I thought about it later, it ceased to make sense. It was DD2 who pointed out "if they're wrong about the days a woman can ovulate, what else is he wrong about?" It's a minor detail, but it does make me question his knowledge of the subject.

I should probably get off the computer and pick up that copy of The Natural Superwoman.

Scratch that. DD1 just called and she'll be home in a few minutes, and will need help with all her stuff. No time to read now.


When things make sense while reading them and then they don't make so much sense after, I always go back to re-read.  Do you think he could have been generalizing on the ovulation cycle?  Or do you think you could have been wrong about your ovulation cycle?

He is no longer alive, but he was considered an expert in his field during his time.  Also, I checked the book I have and it is the one on menopause, not premenopause.

Take the quizzes in The Natural Superwoman.  I will help you evaluate your personal situation.  


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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 8:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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He said that the ovulation day can vary, anwhere from day 3 to day 14. That may be true for some women but I've never ovulated before day 12 and I've often ovulated well after day 14. To give a range of 3-14 seems very strange to me; day 3- day 21 would be more realistic. With a 14 day luteal phase, ovulating on day 3 means a 17 day cycle. I know some women have cycles that short, but I've never been one of them.

I've been charting my own cycles for more than 15 years. I was using it as birth control for a while- so I couldn't afford to  be careless! There are months when I don't watch as carefully, and months when my signs aren't as clear, but I know my body and how to look.

The main thing that confuses me about Dr Lee's books is the idea that estrogen leads to PMS. Estrogen is there the entire menstrual cycle, so why does it only cause PMS towards the end of the cycle? What is it about estrogen that causes those symptoms late in the cycle that doesn't cause them early in the cycle?

It's still kind of weird that I'm getting closer to menstruation and one boob is actually less sore than it was, but then I did just start the GLA  a few days ago. I realize that Lefty might not feel good until after I get my period, but maybe next month it won't hurt as much or as long.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 9:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Sorry to hear about "Lefty"!!!  Ouch!  It is really great that you have been charting for 15 years and know your body so well!

Ruthie, it looks like estrogen plummets at the end of the cycle and progesterone surges after ovulation.  The chart clearly indicates that estrogen is not consistent throughout a woman's cycle.  Could that be what he is referring to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cycle

Something really weird is going on with me, too.  My boobs got sore around the full moon, on July 15th.  I remember this because we were away for the weekend.  I assumed I would have my period in three to five days.  Both lefty and righty are still sore and still no period.  Of course, I am in peri-menopause, so nothing is regular with me anymore.  But still, doesn't that seem weird?

I had a period on December 7, 2011, then no period until May 24, then again in June, so I anticipated a period in July, what with the sore boobs and all  


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paul clucas
Thursday, July 28, 2011, 3:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There seems to be little talk on this thread about charting and relating the tests taken to the time in the cycle.  You can read your hormonal cycle in terms of vaginal mucus quality observations and menses.

It is as important for a woman to know the details of her cycle as a dieter to know their ABO and secretor status.  All the tests in the world will not help if the person analysing the results does not know which day in the cycle a test was taken.  Managing the balance of your hormones is best done with current and historical knowledge of your cycle.  It is also best done with an educated and experienced professional who will make sure your observation and analysis is accurate and informed.  That woman should also be guiding you in how to deal with what is happening.

Bio-identical is not just non-steroidal, but also naturally balanced.  The three estrogens in the human body come in a particular balance.  One enhances the likelihood of cancer and the other two diminish the likelihood.  So part of “bio-identical” should be keeping the estogens in that natural balance.

The hormone system is complex.  Many hormones have been converted from other, precursor hormones and are again converted into another kind.  It is multi-streamed, parallel, interrelated recycling.


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.
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Symbi
Saturday, August 6, 2011, 8:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ruthie, fast reader  !  I think I first read in Everywoman years and years ago, cycles can range up to 35 days long and still be normal, so I wouldn't worry about the days that he Dr Lee said everyone should ovulate.  IMHO you're lucky to have long cycles (could be to do with FSH and LH which are other hormones in the picture), it means less periods in your lifetime and less oestrogen stimulating uterine and breast growth and the bad things that too much oestrogen can cause.

I know what you mean about the title of The Natural Superwoman, I blanched when it said that every superwoman should make time for themselves to go out for dinner one night a week.  That's difficult for us dieters and introverts with aspergers kids!  Rather spend time on here or many other things - it should just say make time to do something fun.  I don't fit his definition of a superwoman!  Still the info seems really good, it explains that oestrogen make us sociable and the decline after ovulation in the cycle might cause PMS.  It makes sense that the body will be sad if it's not pregnant to me, however it works.

Another theory I've seen is that progesterone causes PMS especially in pyroluria / porphyria by being diffucult for the liver to eliminate affecting the P450 enzymes that are low.  I suspect this myself and am hoping I won't have to use progesterone cream - am using phytoestrogens now and hoping my thyroid can keep up!?

Great to see a man who knows about us!  I wrote on all my tests which day of my menstrual cycle they are taken on and Gynae was impressed that I knew the date of my last cycle.  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

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O in Virginia
Saturday, August 6, 2011, 2:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted Text
Great to see a man who knows about us!  I wrote on all my tests which day of my menstrual cycle they are taken on and Gynae was impressed that I knew the date of my last cycle.  


Yay, Paul!     

Symbi, I was at my MD this past Monday, with a list in hand of all the tests I wanted him to do, date of last period, etc.  I wish I had known to do all of this last year when I was in his office with what I believed were perimenopausal symptoms.  I think I am beginning to get a handle on what is up with my hormones, but it took doing the research and tracking on my own.  According to the blood tests I'm still producing "normal" levels of estrogen and testosterone, but my progesterone measured low, and at a time when it should have been high if I were ovulating.  I made sure to schedule the appointment to coincide with this time of my cycle.  I like my MD, but I am beginning to understand that patients have to be very proactive in "partnering" with their health care providers.

I have just started on transdermal bio-identical progesterone cream with my MD's blessing, and I feel better on it.  Calmer.  I sleep better (like a rock).  I could feel the difference within one day.  I'm hoping that supplementing progesterone in this manner will create the right balance to ease the estrogen dominant symptoms I was having, PMS symptoms for like three weeks before my period finally arrived.  We'll see how I do on this cream in time, it is early days yet.  I'll definitely be watching the calendar and listening to my body.  Not that I can help that, it yells!  
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Symbi
Saturday, August 6, 2011, 10:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Great news O in Virginia.  Yay to listening to your body and the doctor listening to you!  Hope it works for you.  Which cream did you end up getting?


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
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O in Virginia
Sunday, August 7, 2011, 12:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Symbi
Great news O in Virginia.  Yay to listening to your body and the doctor listening to you!  Hope it works for you.  Which cream did you end up getting?


  I bought Emerita brand from the health food store.  But my MD has given me the name and tel. number of a pharamcist he likes very much who is very knowledgeable about bio-identical hormones.  When this tube runs out I will probably call him to pick his brain a little.  So far the Emerita seems ok, though.
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O in Virginia
Sunday, August 7, 2011, 12:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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