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Dueling supplements  This thread currently has 559 views. Print Print Thread
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kevinmcl
Thursday, April 12, 2007, 2:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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G'day all.

The descriptons for many supplements seem to say "boosts immune system".
The descriptions for some others seem to say "lessens" or "holds back immune system. Well, nobody would buy something that literally said it "reduces" something as important as the immune system, so they use the euphemism "moderates". Same thing.

But, between my first sentence and my second sentence, do you see my problem? I take supplements based on several things:
- sometimes, just a general recommendation from a trusted source like Dr. D
- sometimes, I've researched a condition or ailment and am specifically directed to a specific supplement
- sometimes I'm just trying 'em out, to see if I'll notice any effect.

Literally EVERY supplement blurb will have a primary effect or reason for taking the supp. There might be others, but those are always secondary. So, if you are like me and have finite disposible income, then for the most part you buy a supplement based on its primary salient characteristic or effect, and any secondary benefits that might accrue are just gravy... along for the ride.

So, what happens when the primary touted effect - the one for which you've explicitly sought out a given supplement - is in direct conflict with the primary touted effect of another supplement that you've bought for another specific reason?

Based on /h/y/p/e/ ... er... ah... I mean, advertised benefits, everything from Ginseng to you-name-it is strongly potent in boosting the immune system . As an example, being type O, I use Astragalus where the general population might use Ecchinacea, when I've exposed myself (or somebody's done it for me) to some contagious illness, or when I'm feeling 'iffy' at all (throat a little raspy, little cough or too many sneezes... that generally raw "I'm fighting off something" feeling... you know). I pop some astragalus and a little extra C and beta-C, and whatever it was goes away. It's not like flipping a switch, but there seems to be enough correlation that I keep doing it.

By contrast, some supplement descriptions say "modulates immune system". As an example, being male, type 0, and "of a certain age", I'm interested in Urtica Dioica to counter BPH.

From the NAP site, the description for the UDA supplement says: "helps to beneficially modulate an over-active immune system".... which I read as " damps it down".

Y'all see where I'm going here? There are likely a lot of folks in exactly the same boat, perhaps with exactly the same two supps, for exactly the same reasons (those were just a nice compact example; many more such conflicts seem to exist).

So, if I understand correctly, if I'm taking some supplements, primarily to bring UP my immune system, and some others whose primary reason-for-being is to put a damper on my immune system... then I might as well stop taking these conflicting supplements, save my money, and let my immune system land where it was gonna, without all the expensive push-pull.

Where, if anywhere, does this logic fail?

Assume I'm taking a good all-round vitamin-mineral supplement and that I eat reasonably well, so there's no issue of nutrient deficiency. Is there really any value, logically speaking, to take an immune booster to stave off life's little assaults, while also taking an immune damper, to damp-down a bulging prostate (substitute your own specific conditions)?? After all, there's only one overall "immune system" to go around, and if they meant something more specific than "immune system", I'm sure they would have said so, yes?

Regards,

Kevin


Revision History (1 edits)
Alia_Vo  -  Wednesday, April 18, 2007, 2:05am
I fixed the spelling in the 'message subject'.
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Brighid45
Thursday, April 12, 2007, 3:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hi Kevin, nice to meet you

This is a tough question. For most Os, I believe the bottom line will always be to reduce inflammation throughout the body and make sure an already over-active immune system gets calmed down and supported correctly, per Dr. D's books.

For immune enhancers, consider making them temporary supplements, to be used during flu season or at least for short periods. If you are eating right for your type with a fairly good compliance rate, the enhancers will be able to do their job more efficiently. That's been my experience, anyway.

If you're having trouble with an enlarged prostate, I'd suggest finding a health practitioner who will work with the BTD, and get a basic exam and bloodwork done, if you haven't done so. BPH is serious business.

Hope this helps. Welcome to the board--I look forward to your posts.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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Don
Thursday, April 12, 2007, 3:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Welcome to the BTD Forums.

If you click the Member Center button at the top of this page, then click Avatar Settings on the left side of the new page you will be taken to a page where you can select a blood type avatar.  Having a blood type avatar is an easy way to share your blood type with other forum readers so that they can respond to you in a blood type appropriate way.

You can add information below your avatar setting, such as Rh+/-, MN blood typing information or whatever else you want to, by going to the Profile Information section in the Member Center and typing in the Personal Message box.

You can also create a Signature of any other information you want to share that will go at the bottom of every message you post.

I also encourage you to indicate your gender, age, and location in the world in the Member Center Personal Information section, Signature, or Personal Message box once again so that other members will be able to better respond to you.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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kevinmcl
Thursday, April 12, 2007, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Actually, BPH is just annoying.

You might be thinking of prostate cancer, which is worrisome.


-------------

I made the requested changes, except I didn't see where you get to add text below the avatar.
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KimonoKat
Thursday, April 12, 2007, 6:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from kevinmcl
Actually, BPH is just annoying.

You might be thinking of prostate cancer, which is worrisome.


-------------

I made the requested changes, except I didn't see where you get to add text below the avatar.


MoDon recently posted some information on the Squatting thread.  There is an informal study that appears to indicate that switching from toilet sitting to squatting for BM's will improve prostate health, and/or reverse symptoms all together. MoDon's post #9.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

Revision History (1 edits)
Alia_Vo  -  Sunday, April 15, 2007, 9:55pm
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KimonoKat
Thursday, April 12, 2007, 6:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from kevinmcl
Actually, BPH is just annoying.

You might be thinking of prostate cancer, which is worrisome.


-------------

I made the requested changes, except I didn't see where you get to add text below the avatar.


When you go to your member center, click on the link for profile information.  For something to appear under your shield, type in what ever you want in the "Personal Message" box.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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erin
Saturday, April 14, 2007, 7:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Kevin,

A modulating herb is one that adapts its effects to the presenting conditions, like a thermostat, so it could have the potential to either stimulate or inhibit depending on what the body needs at the time.

I thought it was strange that Urtica dioica was touted as an immune modulating herb, since that didn't jibe with my recollection of the plant's actions.  I checked my texts and none of them mention it.  Maybe the manufacturer thought they could get some marketing mileage out of that statement?

Cheers
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Dr. D
Saturday, April 14, 2007, 1:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from erin
Hi Kevin,

A modulating herb is one that adapts its effects to the presenting conditions, like a thermostat, so it could have the potential to either stimulate or inhibit depending on what the body needs at the time.

I thought it was strange that Urtica dioica was touted as an immune modulating herb, since that didn't jibe with my recollection of the plant's actions.  I checked my texts and none of them mention it.  Maybe the manufacturer thought they could get some marketing mileage out of that statement?

Cheers


The root is:

http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/nap/archives/00000005.htm


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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erin
Sunday, April 15, 2007, 8:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin

Thanks, Dr. D, I will make a note of this!
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kevinmcl
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, 2:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from erin
Hi Kevin,

A modulating herb is one that adapts its effects to the presenting conditions, like a thermostat, so it could have the potential to either stimulate or inhibit depending on what the body needs at the time.



Thanks. Given the field you are entering, you might wish to work on precision of language (and take to task any instructors [or texts] who present similar usage). I would rather suggest that the body or a subsystem adapts in reaction to a[n] herb. Until further notice, I refuse to believe that a dead herb adapts to anything.

Yes, it's picky, but . . .  goes to credibility.  

Kevin (nettlesome)
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ISA-MANUELA
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, 4:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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ther's no dead herb have an eye onto essiacs it works marvellously

we mustn't believe it dearle, we have to know it

Revision History (1 edits)
Alia_Vo  -  Tuesday, April 17, 2007, 4:08pm
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Lola
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, 1:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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it s called adaptogenic.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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kevinmcl
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, 9:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Update:

FWIW, I have nothing against dosing myself with herbal concoctions to "right a wrong" that I've done to myself, if:

a) there's not an apparent single thing that I can simply stop doing, to stop hurting myself or
b) there's not an obvious single thing that I can start doing to make better whatever is wrong.

In general, the BTD has given a number of things to simply stop doing (wheat, corn, etc.) to fairly good effect.

In this particular case, however, somebody pointed out a shoulda-been-obvious-but-wasn't physical intervention that bears investigating. Specifically, Kimonokat (thanks!!) put me onto the squatting thread, which I then followed up with some more reading. To make a long story longer, I've ordered a "Nature's Platform", and will put it to use as soon as I receive it... well, ok, next morning...    

Should be interesting - I've ordered it shipped to my office (so that somebody will be present to receive the package).  Depending on what the outside of the package says, I might have some "'splainin' to do" after the receptionist sees it.  "Kevin, your ... um.... toilet booster-seat thingie has arrived. Wanna come to the front desk and pay the taxes and brokerage?"  Or, maybe I can get away with saying that it's a walker for an elderly midget.

I'm hoping that that single change of squatting to poo will clear up several things that I'd previoiusly attributed to a half century of wear and tear. I'll try to remember to report back in a few months.
It's so bloomin' obvious, once you think about it, that I can't imagine it NOT working. The only question is how much room there is for recovery (how much resilience my innards still retain... here's hopin').

Regards to all,

Kevin

PS: My reading says that "adaptogenic" means "helps the body adapt", and not that the actual substance itself adapts.
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Victoria
Thursday, April 19, 2007, 7:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from kevinmcl

PS: My reading says that "adaptogenic" means "helps the body adapt", and not that the actual substance itself adapts.


You're correct, of course.  Figures of speech are sometimes just that.  

The bottom line is that Adaptogenic herbs do tend to promote health, whether the body needs to up-regulate or down-regulate it's immune system.  In the same way the BTD will make it easier for the body to correct weight problems, whether weight loss or weight gain is needed.

I can't wait to hear about your experiences in the bathroom.  Only tell us what you think we need to know!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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