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italybound
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 12:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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I have a member of the family who is having bowel problem. He has been diagnosed w/ IBS     and is on Zelnorm.  They also had him on a fiber 'thing' which consisted of psyllium and some gum (both avoids). I told him he was better off w/o it and he rarely uses it. After my other brother reading some info on lost beneficial flora from antibiotics and all the stuff I've been 'feeding' him 'forever', he is wondering if he should be taking something for his intestinal flora. Yes, yes, yes, he should be!! So, I ordered him some Polyflora today and gave him 20 capsules to get him thru until his come. The big question is, since he's been on antibiotics, even tho it was some months ago, how many should he take a day?  Bear in mind, he, until recently never took anything to replace lost flora. He recently started taking some acidophillus, but I see that is not even in the Polyflora O.  I remember reading on this forum that it takes months at high doses of beneficial flora supplements, to replenish what has been destroyed w/ antibiotics. Would you all mind giving me some suggestions on how much he should take and for how long? I know he should stay on some for maintenance, eventually, but how much and for how long to really get things 'kickstarted'. Also, how much effect do you think it will have on getting his bowels working on their own and properly. He loosely follows BTD and knows he has to do better, so that piece of it has been covered.  Thanks!



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Lola
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 1:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Victoria
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 1:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Is he blood type O?

My favorite fiber for IBS is ARA 6.  I used to suffer IBS really horribly.  Freshly ground flax, ARA 6 and Polyflora B have put an end to that.  But he might have to work up to the ground flax and get his body used to it gradually.



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italybound
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Victoria
Is he blood type O?

My favorite fiber for IBS is ARA 6.  I used to suffer IBS really horribly.  Freshly ground flax, ARA 6 and Polyflora B have put an end to that.  But he might have to work up to the ground flax and get his body used to it gradually.


How much flax? How much ARA 6 and where do you get that?
Lola, how long would you recommend he do the Polyflora at that dosage?



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AfricanTypeO
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What was the problem with the Psyllium?

Anyways, I didn't get any effect from probiotics (D'Adamo's or others) at lower doses.  I currently take around 200 billion to 350 billion cfu daily (to give you some perspective the Polyflora product contains, I think, about 1 billion cfu per capsule).  I buy my probiotics from a company who will custom blend them for you at high doses.  So, you could ask him to make a you a blend of your Beneficial probiotics (as in the Polyflora products) at a dose of 100 billion and higher per gram (it comes as a powder that you mix into drinks).

Since I began this protocol, my bowel movements are great,  I feel great, the frequent yeast infections I was havig have ceased and my digestion is doing great.
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italybound
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from AfricanTypeO
What was the problem with the Psyllium?
Anyways, I didn't get any effect from probiotics (D'Adamo's or others) at lower doses.  I currently take around 200 billion to 350 billion cfu daily (to give you some perspective the Polyflora product contains, I think, about 1 billion cfu per capsule).  I buy my probiotics from a company who will custom blend them for you at high doses.  So, you could ask him to make a you a blend of your Beneficial probiotics (as in the Polyflora products) at a dose of 100 billion and higher per gram (it comes as a powder that you mix into drinks).
Since I began this protocol, my bowel movements are great,  I feel great, the frequent yeast infections I was havig have ceased and my digestion is doing great.


Psyllium is an avoid for O's.
When you say "Since I began this protocol", are you speaking of the 200-350 billion cfu daily?  Does cfu stand for colonies in some way?  Also would you mind giving me the name of the company who custom blends yours?   And how long have you been taking this high dose?




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pkarmeier  -  Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:31am
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Victoria
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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ARA6 from NAP store, minimum of 1 Tb/day, or 1 Tb twice a day.

I eat 2 Tb. of freshly ground flax added to a blender drink, or it can be added to juice or water.



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Let me not pass you by in quest
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~Mary Jean Irion
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AfricanTypeO
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from pkarmeier


Psyllium is an avoid for O's.
When you say "Since I began this protocol", are you speaking of the 200-350 billion cfu daily?  Does cfu stand for colonies in some way?  Also would you mind giving me the name of the company who custom blends yours?   And how long have you been taking this high dose?


Had no idea about the psyllium.  I used to take it.   Yes the protocol I am talking about is the probiotic one.  Cfu means 'colony forming units'.  The NAP product has 1.5 billion CFU per capsule.

The company I use is

http://www.customprobiotics.com

I've also had good results with Natren's Healthy Trinity but that works out way more expensive than the Custom Probiotics products.

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RhodaMaria
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 11:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from pkarmeier


Psyllium is an avoid for O's.


IB, this is good info... Where did you find this info??

And about the Polyflora intake.. My experience is that people take too much of supps.. If they do not drink adequately, they get constipated..

My advice is not to take more than 1 capsule Polyflora at the start of your diet..
The body has to adapt to and another way of eating and supps...
This can be too much to handle at the same time...

Just my experience with my patients..

Cocky

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italybound
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 12:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from AfricanTypeO
The company I use is http://www.customprobiotics.com


Thanks for the info!!

Cocky, I've read many, many times on this forum that psyllium is an avoid for O's.  Is this not correct?  



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RhodaMaria
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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IB, I just can't find it in the encyclopedia.. That is all..  

I will bear it in mind that psyllium is to be avoided by O's..

thanks IB!

Cocky  
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Don
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 2:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, psyllium is considered an avoid for type O's, at least on a regular basis.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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italybound
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 3:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Cocky
IB, I just can't find it in the encyclopedia.. That is all..
I will bear it in mind that psyllium is to be avoided by O's..thanks IB!
Cocky


Your welcome. Glad MoDon chimed in there, was starting to think I'd imagined that. .



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RhodaMaria
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 3:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Don thanks for updating me and reassuring   IB with the psyllium!!

I have noted it in my Encyclopy!!

Thanks

Cocky
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AfricanTypeO
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 5:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Cocky


IB, this is good info... Where did you find this info??

And about the Polyflora intake.. My experience is that people take too much of supps.. If they do not drink adequately, they get constipated..

My advice is not to take more than 1 capsule Polyflora at the start of your diet..
The body has to adapt to and another way of eating and supps...
This can be too much to handle at the same time...

Just my experience with my patients..

Cocky





I politely disagree. I have studied probiotic usage extensively.  There are trillions of the bad guys in the average person's gut.  A mere 1 billion CFU of probiotics is going to do diddly squat.    Unless perhaps you are already super-healthy and you already have more than enough of the 'good' bacteria in your gut, and you've never ever been under chronic stress, taken antibiotics or birth control pills or steroids or been under stress or drank water with chlorine in it (all of these things kill of the good bacteria) - then perhaps 1 billion cfu would be enough, just to maintain the perfect ecological domain you already have in your gut.  
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italybound
Tuesday, December 12, 2006, 8:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from AfricanTypeO
I politely disagree. I have studied probiotic usage extensively. There are trillions of the bad guys in the average person's gut. A mere 1 billion CFU of probiotics is going to do diddly squat.


I have to politely say, I tend to agree here. I have read on this board more than once that if you've taken even one dose of antibiotics, you need, I believe upwards of 50 billion colonies per day for an extended period of time.  



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BuzyBee
Monday, March 19, 2007, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Is psyllium ok for A't? I have just started taking a fiber pill that contains psyllium and pectin.
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sierradawn
Monday, March 19, 2007, 9:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from AfricanTypeO
What was the problem with the Psyllium?

Anyways, I didn't get any effect from probiotics (D'Adamo's or others) at lower doses. I currently take around 200 billion to 350 billion cfu daily (to give you some perspective the Polyflora product contains, I think, about 1 billion cfu per capsule). I buy my probiotics from a company who will custom blend them for you at high doses. So, you could ask him to make a you a blend of your Beneficial probiotics (as in the Polyflora products) at a dose of 100 billion and higher per gram (it comes as a powder that you mix into drinks).

Since I began this protocol, my bowel movements are great, I feel great, the frequent yeast infections I was havig have ceased and my digestion is doing great.


Were you able to get all the same probiotic strains that's in Polyflora O? I noticed on the customprobiotics website that they don't have Streptococcus thermophilus for custom blending. I'd like to order but want to know exactly what blend you use since I am also an O.

Thanks!


Gatherer with a Gatherer Husband
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Dr. D
Monday, March 19, 2007, 10:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from AfricanTypeO




I politely disagree. I have studied probiotic usage extensively.  There are trillions of the bad guys in the average person's gut.  A mere 1 billion CFU of probiotics is going to do diddly squat.    Unless perhaps you are already super-healthy and you already have more than enough of the 'good' bacteria in your gut, and you've never ever been under chronic stress, taken antibiotics or birth control pills or steroids or been under stress or drank water with chlorine in it (all of these things kill of the good bacteria) - then perhaps 1 billion cfu would be enough, just to maintain the perfect ecological domain you already have in your gut.  


Most studies show that if the strains are not chosen correctly there will be no permanent changes to the gut from probiotic doses of any amount. As long as you keep taking the humungous CFU formulas (and paying for them) the bacteria will remain in there. Within two weeks of dc'ing these formulas, the population almost always reverts to what it was before. The idea is to use the best strains for your blood type and include the blood type optimum prebiotics as well.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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veggiegirl
Monday, March 19, 2007, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from BuzyBee
Is psyllium ok for A't? I have just started taking a fiber pill that contains psyllium and pectin.


BB-Not sure about psyllium, but I had IBS for several years.  I have found that more fiber in my diet through fruits, veggies & Fiber One cereal along with more water does wonders!!  I must confess, though, not all Fiber One ingredients are the best...guar gum, aspartame and phenylalanine which are avoids, however, I haven't found anything else that works as well for me.  So, I try to be compliant in other areas and still have the Fiber One cereal each morning.  Recently, I've been mixing it with Ezekiel cereal which also contains some fiber.  I've taken Zelnorm also and it gave me diarrhea so bad I stopped taking it...one extreme to the other.


"Life shared among people who love each other is the ideal of happiness." --George Sand
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Alia Vo
Monday, March 19, 2007, 10:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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The recommended therapeutic suggestions listed on the Polyflors bottle should be helpful to follow.  

I believe taking one Polyflora a day is often utilized by people who take it for maintenance.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
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Whimsical
Monday, March 26, 2007, 12:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from admin


Most studies show that if the strains are not chosen correctly there will be no permanent changes to the gut from probiotic doses of any amount. As long as you keep taking the humungous CFU formulas (and paying for them) the bacteria will remain in there. Within two weeks of dc'ing these formulas, the population almost always reverts to what it was before. The idea is to use the best strains for your blood type and include the blood type optimum prebiotics as well.


Hi Dr. D, can you post the info for the research on this?  I am interested in reading it.  Thx.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Ronagon
Saturday, March 31, 2007, 10:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The inclusion of red meat, the elimination of all major grains but rice and all oils beside olive oil totally stopped my IBS.
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geminisue
Saturday, March 31, 2007, 10:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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zelnorm- just came out that it is causing heart attacks and/or strokes!
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Drea
Saturday, March 31, 2007, 2:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I still take Polyflora but I've found that it no longer works as well for my eliminations...chelated magnesium at night does that trick.

I'm sorry but not surprised to hear that yet another prescription drug on the market has deterimental side effects.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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italybound
Saturday, March 31, 2007, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from geminisue
zelnorm- just came out that it is causing heart attacks and/or strokes!


My brother just told me about this today. I mentioned to him that I had once been cautioned not to ever use a medicine that hasn't been on the market for at least 5 years. Good rule of thumb I'd say.



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veggiegirl
Sunday, April 1, 2007, 12:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from geminisue
zelnorm- just came out that it is causing heart attacks and/or strokes!


I'm SO glad I stopped taking it!!!  If it were up to my OLD doctor, I would have been taking a pill for everything!!!  Feeling stressed? Oh I have a pill for that....feeling depressed?  I have something for that, too...  No thank you, doc!!!  Not surprised about the reports on Zelnorm...    


"Life shared among people who love each other is the ideal of happiness." --George Sand
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