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Jacek
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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My big comeback - older BTD'ers probably remember me...  


I was away of forum for several months as I was deeply touched by something like IBS (not as defined medically - rather kind of abdominal pain) and depression. Probably bipolar - typical for all zero's but without typical maniac periods during all past life...). One of my doctors suggests so i had all past life hypomania....
It is strange, but to keep internal consistency I had a problem discussing my health adventures with anyone but doctors…
Even if I was still active (working from home and very well progressing with my company) it was very difficult experience with almost constant serious pain and all what you may suppose... I had several weird treatments (those horrible neurolepthics), and now I know that psychiatry and neurology is still far away from knowing the truth.

Now I need your help...

After successful depression treatment with Lexapro i was poisoned by something what is known in the world as DEPAKENE (Lexapro in some way overdrives my nervous system). Despite all typical and well known side effects I found another one. It does not reduce my pain and in strange way change the perception. It is very difficult to explain but I heard myself (like echo...), almost everything was perceived twice, like a strobe effects... . It bringing idea that nervous system works not only in the simple way treated by chemical drugs but have kind of backup system working in quite different way.
Now again I have prescribed Tegretol - any idea if this may help or kill me like depakene?
All other ideas, treatments,  supplement suggestions?

All the best – live right to avoid my problem (many years I had no vacations).

Jacek

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Jacek  -  Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:00pm
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EquiPro
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hubby was put onto depakote (same as depakene) and it was not good for him.  Gave him very, very bizarre dreams and seemed to depress him.  He had a bunch of weird symptoms on Depakote, so his Dr. took him off of it.  The strange symptoms abated over time.  Depakote, btw, is used to control the mania portion of bipolar disorder.

DH has to fight the depressive part of bipolar far more than the mania and he still, occassionally, takes Lexapro.  He had been on Lexapro for years, but after careful monitoring it became appearent that taking it regularly it tended to keep him too "down", so  his psychiatrist has changed him (over time) to:

150 mg Wellbutrin XL 2x per day (morning and mid-morning)
100 mg Seroquel at night.

If his depression hits him hard, as it does occassionally, he is still recommended to take the lexapro for a day or two, but, in general, the Wellbutrin works much better for him because it keeps him "up" rather than "down"


The Seroquel works much better for him for controlling his mania and, best of all, helps him sleep normally, something that he hasn't done for 20+ years.

Why don't you talk to your Dr. about Seroquel?

It seems that, with bipolar disorder, you have to keep trying different combos until you find one that works for you.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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Lola
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would start exercising daily.........
begin with a bit everyday, always at the same time, preferably first thing in the morning.

outdoor walks are great (lots of fresh air breathing)........helps you focus, plan and execute your plan toward healing, physically and mentally.

do you smoke?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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EquiPro
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I'm sorry, Isa, but I couldn't disagree with you more.  Bipolar disorder is serious, and just as no one would suggest that a diabetic stop taking insulin or solve their diabetes with exercise, no one should suggest that a person who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder (and sure he would not have been perscribed an anti-mania drug without a diagnosis) stop taking their meds.

One of the biggest problems that people who are bipolar HAVE is not taking their meds on a regular basis.  It is wholy impossible for you or anyone else to diagnose someone as bipolar or not being bipolar from any posts on this board.  Bipolar people do not have a "splitted mind" - that might be someone who is schizophrenic.  Bipolar people have chemical problem in their brain where their brain "cycles" between depression and mania.  The cycling can be very long - as in someone who suffers from severe depression for years, but then when not depressed is unusually "high" or they can "cycle" several times in a minute.

This is not something to mess around with.  Bipolar disorder is serious.

Please, please Jacek, do NOT abruptly stop taking your meds because someone on a forum suggests that you do so. Many of the drugs that bipolar people take are SERIOUS medications and cannot be quit cold turkey.  This take medical professionals, not laypeople who are talking about their diets.

One thing that you DO need to do, Jacek, is to stop all consumption of alcohol.  If you are not able to do so, you might seek a treatment program for it.  Bipolar people can be SERIOUSLY affected by even the smallest amounts of alcohol.  Whereas most people may not be affected by one beer, one beer can throw a bipolar person into a terrible cycle of depression that takes days to even out.  You may also wish to stop all caffein consumption.  Both of these chemicals can affect bipolar people in a way that they don't affect others.  DH has quit alcohol and there is a HUGE difference in his management of his depression, but still self-medicates with caffeine.  I think that it will be a much harder road for him to give that one up.

This is a great site for the basic explainations of bipolar disorder:

http://www.psychguides.com/bphe.php


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EquiPro
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 9:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I understand what you are saying, but first of all, it is usually not therapists here in the US that are allowed to diagnose and perscribe meds for bipolar disorder.  For someone to tell a bipolar person to stop taking their meds is really scary to me.  It could throw him into severe depression or severe mania.  Since none of us really know anyone closely who posts on internet forums, it is just not a good idea to make medical recommendation to someone, and telling a person who has been diagnosed as bipolar that they shouldn't take their meds is a medical recommendation.  Who knows what the consequences could be?

Nowhere did he say that he was taking lithium or that the doctor had recommended a dosage increase.  What he was asking about was the Depakene and that's what I was commenting about, as DH had some weird side-effects from that one, too.

I don't know how things work where you live, but here you would not be allowed to perscribe the kind of medicines that this person is taking without being a doctor.  Just working with doctors or therapists is not enough, and although I agree that there are a lot of bad doctors out there, it is not the place of this board to have people make a medical diagnosis or a medical recommendation with something as serious as bipolar disorder.

I agree with you that there are a lot of therapists with their own agendas, and not very good agendas at that, but there is no way to know what is really going on from a few posts on a message board.

Jacet was complaining about Depakene, which is another form of medication that my DH had taken, called Depakote.  I wrote because DH also complained of some strange symptoms on the Depakote.  His psychiatrist weaned him off of this med and tried him on something else that has worked very well.  Does that mean that this would also work for Jacet?  Who knows?  None of us, except he and his mental health provider, know enough details to know what he needs.  

You don't know if he has mania or not, whether it is rapid cycling or not, whether he is bipolar I or bipolar II, whether he is affected severely by depression or not and what the consequences of dealing with the bipolar disorder have been for him.  Neither do I.  It is often very hard to diagnose bipolar disorder, as it talks about in the article on that hyperlink.  It is hard for the individual to judge the length and depth of depression or the reality of mania.  I think that the article said that the average length of time for correct diagnosis is 8 years.  It certainly can't be done with a few posts on a message board. I say, leave that part to his caregivers.  It's safest that way.   We would not want to be the cause of damage in any way.

That's why I think that it is important to not make medical recommendation to this person.  

Finally, while I do agree that it is best to try to treat people as holistically as possible, to deny that there are people who really DO need medicines in order to live better lives is to deny them good treatment.  I know that DH is SO much better than he has been since I have known him, now that he is getting meds to help him deal with bipolar disorder.  I would never deny him this in favor of holisitic treatment.  Not with this type of case.


FRESH START TODAY!!!

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Jacek  -  Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 9:57pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 10:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hmmm I am still insisting in http://www.orthomed.org  for further infos' ............
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mikeo
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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go off the meds slowly if possible and start eating right for your type making sure you stay away from grains as much as possible and incorporate exercise into your daily routine...the endorphines via the exercise will help aleviate your depression as well give you an outlet when you feel manic...

Stop watching the news on TV and reading the newspaper for a week...you would be amazed how better you will feel.

B12 and Russian rhodiola are supplements that may help

the goal is to get your dopamine levels where they are not too high(manic) and not too low(depression).Eating high quality meat or beneficial protein in lieu of wheat or any other grains will help stabalize your dopamine levels

try to go to sleep at the same time every night and wake at the same time everyday and get as much sunlight as possible without burning.

feeling manic....move.....exercise
feeling depressed...stay away from wheat and grains...eat a nice piece of meat or fish or protien powder(see Dr D's protein)...make sure you eat enough protein in the morning....make it your top protein meal of the day..it will stabalize your mood for the day ahead

good luck




RHN MIfHI
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Lola
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 11:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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right Mike......
Quoted Text
Dr. D on wheat and depression:

Wheat is known to inhibit dopamine beta hydroxylase (DBH), an enzyme that converts adrenaline-like precursors to dopamine.

DBH is genetically compromised in type O's (found on same chromosome as ABO, and extensively linked to ABO) who often wind up having too much adrenaline and too little dopamine when they consume wheat.

Less direct link in the other types.

BTW: what increases DBH? High protein diet and exercise!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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KimonoKat
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would recommend eating like a nonnie, or even more compliant by following one of the health series books.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 2:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I dunno, guys.  Bipolar disorder is  NOT just depression, and I don't think that it is a good idea for any of us to recommend that he stop taking meds.  I don't believe that bipolar disorder can be effectively treated with diet and exercise, and I think that the worst thing that could happen is for Jacet to be encouraged to go off of perscribed meds.

In fact, I'm stepping out of this thread.  I think that it is a serious issue.  Jacet asked about a reaction to a specific med, and people are recommending stopping medications and a dietary approach to something that could be and probably is far more serious than should be addressed here.


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resting
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 2:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Jacek,

yep, your old buddy is still around ... it is very hard to give you any kind of advice ... because following this can lead you into mood swings very quickly .... if you wish to try different approaches have your therapist/psychiatrist monitor you for change .... what he would normally do if introducing a new drug into your regime.  Because of the nature of your illness it is at times very difficult to self-assess that anything is wrong (manic) ... my sister has bi-polar, as does the son of a good friend.

There are a number of things to try ... a) because you did have digestive problems for years - a leaky gut can explain many of your symptoms - try to be very compliant with an 0-nonnie regime (diet + exercise - in the sun)... + no smoking, no booze, no sugar and no chocolate, add protocols for candida, intestinal health ... high amounts of chlorophyll - the stinging nettle extract is ideal for 0's during summer, high amounts of Polyflora-0 from NAP,  as well their new supplement Intrinsica should help ... b) if you wish to give Isa's approach a try - read over the article by Linus Pauling on Psychiatry & Orthomolecular medicine.  c) phytoplankton at http://www.umac-core.com .  Please, understand that these are not a quick-fix and it may take some time before finding your particular solution.

good luck ..........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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After reading John's post about some of your history of digestive problems I thought you might be interested in reading this article Concepts and Ideas to Treat Depression Naturally.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 7:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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sorry here I am with Mikeo and of course John; because if you go ahead with the lacks causing such *imbalances* and also getting aware without blaming whatsoever about your real situation, instead lying at yourself why
you can't stay anymore such emptyness and then getting into actions....= re-actions.... a form of flight and fight-syndrome, too.... so have a look onto your *self* and work on it.
From one dependancy to another doesn't solve any kind of problems, because all of those *friendly*
drugs are only meant to get ya into dependancy and no help in reality....that's la causa....because no
pharmaphirm can be alife without selling something.....= exploitation en gros making believe people with terms they can accept and identify with..........
thatswhy I am telling my clients: become your own teacher, your own master of your life and begin to use your brain instead getting your head to your hairdresser .....  once a month  

p.s.
thatswhy I love this forum so much, here you might get the answers frank and freely outspoken and very less of bla's and thatswhy I love the approach of Peter so much, he and the orthomoleculars and some of the phyto's and homeopaths are the only one in a correct and acceptable and valide form to solve the problems and not
turning around the hot potty Peter is one of the rare gems who attacks it by its corns and nothing else...he calls you for a positive approach to get out of those situations, and not to stay in......that's what we have to do and to follow and to teach .....................................!!!.................................................................................
even the translation in the bible is wrongly interpreted: I am the one who I am....
means in reality I am the one.. I'll become............(ich bin der ich werde....)

Revision History (2 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 8:15am
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 7:55am
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RhodaMaria
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 9:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
have a look onto your *self* and work on it.
From one dependancy to another doesn't solve any kind of problems, because all of those *friendly*drugs are only meant to get ya into dependancy and no help in reality
thatswhy I am telling my clients: become your own teacher, your own master of your life and begin to use your brain instead getting your head to your hairdresser .....  once a month  

p.s.
thatswhy I love this forum so much, here you might get the answers frank and freely outspoken and very less of bla's and thatswhy I love the approach of Peter so much, he and the orthomoleculars and some of the phyto's and homeopaths are the only one in a correct and acceptable and valide form to solve the problems and not
turning around the hot potty Peter is one of the rare gems who attacks it by its corns and nothing else...he calls you for a positive approach to get out of those situations, and not to stay in......that's what we have to do and to follow and to teach .....................................!!!.................................................................................
even the translation in the bible is wrongly interpreted: I am the one who I am....
means in reality I am the one.. I'll become............(ich bin der ich werde....)


Well said, Isa.. I could not agree more with you, John and Modon...
Of course under monitoring closely by a good therapist...
Once you are on those meds, the road goes down, instead of UP...

Cocky
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Dr. D
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 9:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Jacek, listen to all this advice, but remember, if you plan to do anything, make sure that you do it in concert with the doctor who precribed the medicine.

In other words, the person who put you one it is the person who should take you off...

This is because the withdrawal of the medicine can greatly accelerate the mania/ or depressio effect, so it must be done expertly.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

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Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 9:32am
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 12:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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"Once you are on those meds, the road goes down, instead of UP..."

I wonder how many people posting this have lived with this disorder?  I really do.  I have lived with it for 18 years.  18 years of sometimes off the meds, sometimes on the meds, and never the right meds.  And while there have been great times and wonderful things, this disorder had brought this family to a state of complete ruin, from which we are just now recovering and which may take us years - decades - to finally recover.

I think that it is all well and good to make these statements on an observational level, but it is a whole 'nother thing to live through it.

Since FINALLY being properly diagnosed, hubby has started on various medications in combination to help him manage this, and let me tell you, the "road" is finally going up.  There has been a change in my husband that I have never seen and it is all good.   Finally we are not dealing with debilitating depression.  Finally we are not subjected to manic phases that have, at times, wiped us out financially.  Finally we are getting some normalcy in our lives.  Unfortunately, the ramifications of living with a bipolar person untreated are still with us.  The worst, I am afraid, is not over.

You people are stating YOUR own agendas here.  Aside from John, what I am hearing is experience from a clinical level.  It is not like living with it 24/7.

You do a disservice to those struggling with this to say that all meds are bad and that the meds are a downhill road.  That's just not true, and I can tell you this from experience.

I won't stay with this disorder if it is not medicated.  I won't live my life like that anymore.  In this case, and in the cases of others that I have met who face the challenges of this disorder, proper medication is, in MY opinion, and with MY VAST experience at this point, key.

If you read up on bipolar disorder, across the board you will find experts in this particular field saying that bipolar disorder is often not treatable EXCEPT with medication.  Therapy often doesn't help.  We're trying that, so I can't tell you if, in our case, it helps or not.  All I know is that these medications are a god-send, and I, personally, resent people implying that they are always bad.

Unless you have lived with it, you have no real idea how destructive and debilitating this disorder is to the person who has it, but perhaps even more to their family.  

I still hope that Jacek will listen to his Dr. and follow his advise.  I hope that he doesn't, on the advise of people her, no matter how well-meaning, go off of his meds.

Let me ask you this:  is everyone here who is so against the medications for this disorder ready to step up and pick up the pieces of his life if disaster ensues?  Because, most likely, it will.   I'm living through that disaster.  I would never, EVER recommend that a person with this disorder go off their meds or go against their doctors advise.  I know only too well what can happen.

Jacek, your post has made you the center of a debate now.  I'm sorry about that.

I hope that you talk all of this over with your doctor thoroughly.  I'm sure that John's advise on the leaky gut can help.  If you are struggling with the mania phase, which is what Depakene is for, you might ask your Dr. about Seroquel.  It has REALLY worked well for my husband.   For the first time in 20 years he is sleeping a normal sleep cycle, and I have only seen one or two small manic episodes since he started on that med.  Combined with the Wellbutrin, he seems to be stablizing and the good news is that he doesn't not appear to be having any serious side-effects from this combination.  Perhaps your doctor would want to try you on this combo?

The Depakote (Depakene) DID make him feel bizarre, with twitchiness and skincrawls as well as very vivid and strange dreams.  He gave it a good try, since it was his doctors first choice, but it did not work for him.  

Good luck!  


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Peppermint Twist
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 12:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a very interesting thread.

My father was bipolar.  He was not diagnosed correctly until very late in his life, just towards the end of his life, actually.  Without going into a big, long thing, he was basically untreated or mistreated (as in, treated incorrectly) his entire life.  He also self-medicated with alcohol and was a life-long alcoholic.  Until recently, this (not being correctly diagnosed or treated) was apparently fairly typical because the disease was so little understood.  It was called manic-depression then, too.

Anyway, all I want to add to this thread is that I think everyone is right in a sense:  Equipro is correct that this is a chemical imbalance.  It is an imbalance in the brain chemistry.  Therefore, imho, it is a physical illness with mental symptoms.  It isn't something that can be treated with therapy, in other words, I think that is something we can all agree on and that wasn't even an issue in this thread.  But as far as drugs go, since this is a chemical imbalance, I--and I'm extremely, extremely conservative about treating anything with drugs--do feel that, right now, drugs are the treatment of choice for bipolar disorder.  The chemical imbalance has got to be balanced somehow.  Right now, the only way known to do it is with drugs.

However, that said, I strongly believe that, as our knowledge of nutrition, nutrigenomics and nutricueticals increases, there is great hope that, in the future, bipolar disorder will be treatable with targeted, customized diet and supplements.  But I feel that, unfortunately for Jacek and others who are challenged with bipolar disorder right now, a nutrigenomic approach alone may not be enough, as our understanding and knowledge of nutrigenomics is not yet evolved enough, it simply isn't, to properly balance the brain chemistry of the bipolar individual.  Therefore, I think everyone is right in this thread:  Right now, medication is the way to go, in tandem of course with an optimal BTD program and taking good care of yourself in terms of sleep, exercise, not smoking, etc.  And, whatever you do, don't drink alcohol, it will throw off your treatment.

What I'm saying is:  In the present day, a combination of medication and nutrigenomics is the way to go for bipolar disorder...in the future, nutrigenomics alone, hopefully, will be the way to go.

Edited to add:  and, whatever you do, as Dr. D. said, don't stop your medication unless you work with your doctor on it.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Revision History (4 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:46pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:45pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:13pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:12pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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dear EquiPro...don't ya think that 12 year living with such an individual is quiet enough...huh
and since he was able to accept that he was in need of such medication, took me and dear I've a life too, not only those egomanes.....

haver a look beyond all such *points* have a look also in Riso's then you understand the causa and then you might be able to go against in best intentions, but what's about peoples passed over their 50ties ....can't change them, if they don't want by themselves...can't do anything for em, they are only reduced to get the right of being *consumers*...that's the most crucial of all!

For all kinds of so named *dis-orders* there's a remedy..... but also a need for
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RhodaMaria
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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
have a look also in Riso's then you understand the causa and then you might be able to go against in best intentions, but what's about peoples passed over their 50ties ....can't change them, if they don't want by themselves...can't do anything for em, they are only reduced to get the right of being *consumers*...that's the most crucial of all!


Riso made me see the way I was going in my life... It was an eye-opener for me..
So... I was on the way down myself without fully realizing it myself...
I was lucky to have a great friend around who showed me that wrong way and... the right way to overcome my depression.
As long as you see what IS you and what is NOT you, you can choose..

Anyway just my experience from a dark period in my life..

Cocky
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 2:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I am not downplaying your experiences, either, but the thing is this:

bipolar disorder IS NOT depression.  


It's just not.  I firmly believe that A LOT of depression can be treated without meds.  I firmly believe that anti-depressants are over perscribed.  I totally affirm that many people experiencing depression are doing so because of factors in their lives other than seratonin issues.

but bipolar disorder is not depression.

You can't look at them the same way.  You don't treat them the same way.  They don't respond to things the same way.

I have been depressed several times in my life.  For one period, antidepressants really helped me and, in some ways, saved my life.  But for other periods, they were, indeed, a terrible road for me.

For a bipolar person, it isn't the same thing and it isn't the same issues.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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RhodaMaria
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Just a nice email I received from a dear friend of mine just now!!!

I want to share this funny, but soo true email with all of you..

*************************************************
Tech Support: Yes, .. how can I help you?

Customer: Well, after much consideration, I've decided to install Love.
Can you guide me through the process?

Tech Support: Yes. I can help you. Are you ready to proceed?

Customer: Well, I'm not very technical, but I think I'm ready. What do I do first?



Tech Support: The first step is to open your Heart. Have you located your Heart?

Customer: Yes, but there are several other programs running now. Is it okay to
install Love while they are running?

Tech Support: What programs are running ?

Customer: Let's see, I have Past Hurt, Low Self-Esteem, Grudge and Resentment running right now.

Tech Support: No problem, Love will gradually erase Past Hurt from your current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory but it will no longer disrupt other programs. Love will eventually override Low Self-Esteem with a module of its own called High Self-Esteem. However, you have to completely turn off Grudge and Resentment. Those programs prevent Love from being properly installed.
Can you turn those off ?

Customer: I don't know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?

Tech Support: With pleasure. Go to your start menu and invoke Forgiveness.
Do this as many times as necessary until Grudge and Resentment have been completely erased.

Customer: Okay, done! Love has started installing itself. Is that normal?

Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You
need to begin connecting to other Hearts in order to get the upgrades.

Customer: Oops! I have an error message already. It says, "Error - Program
not run on external components." What should I do?

Tech Support: Don't worry. It means that the Love program is set up to run
on Internal Hearts, but has not yet been run on your Heart. In non-technical
terms, it simply means you have to Love yourself before you can Love others.

Customer: So, what should I do?

Tech Support: Pull down Self-Acceptance; then click on the following files:
Forgive-Self; Realize Your Worth; and Acknowledge your Limitations.

Customer: Okay, done.

Tech Support: Now, copy them to the "My Heart" directory. The system will
overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching faulty programming. >Also,
you need to delete Verbose Self-Criticism from all directories and empty your Recycle Bin to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.

Customer: Got it. Hey! My heart is filling up with new files. Smile is playing
on my monitor and Peace and Contentment are copying themselves all over
My Heart. Is this normal?

Tech Support: Sometimes. For others it takes awhile, but eventually
everything gets it at the proper time. So Love is installed and running. One
more thing before we hang up. Love is Freeware. Be sure to give it and its
various modules to everyone you meet. They will in turn share it with others
and return some cool modules back to you.

Customer: Thank you, God.

***************************************************

Cocky


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italybound
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from Edna
Therefore, I think everyone is right in this thread:  Right now, medication is the way to go, in tandem of course with an optimal BTD program and taking good care of yourself in terms of sleep, exercise, not smoking, etc.  And, whatever you do, don't drink alcohol, it will throw off your treatment.

Edited to add:  and, whatever you do, as Dr. D. said, don't stop your medication unless you work with your doctor on it.


I think Edna sums it up pretty well here. I don't know a ton about bipolar, but I've read enough to know you can't just stop your meds. I've read articles about people who did and the serious consequences.
As Dr. D says, "if you plan to do anything, make sure that you do it in concert with the doctor who precribed the medicine. In other words, the person who put you one it is the person who should take you off... This is because the withdrawal of the medicine can greatly accelerate the mania/ or depressio effect, so it must be done expertly."  This directly reminds me of the horror stories I've read of people who stopped their meds on their own. The meds one takes for bipolar are serious meds. We who do not have this disorder, do not understand how they work. Nor may those that take them.
On the other hand, I do firmly believe changing up ones diet to be as totally and completely compliant BTD is absolutely a must!   I know E/P says bipolar is not depression and I'm not disagreeing w/ her. What I am saying is that depression is a symptom of bipolar and I totally believe depression can be treated w/ diet control. I went thru a serious depression back in Oct/Nov.  The dr said I was clinically depressed, insisted I take some meds and sent me on my way. Meds went in the trash, I totally cleaned up my diet, got back on my adrenal meds as I should have been and within a week or so, I was fine and have been since. To say I was a little depressed would be incorrect. It was somewhere I've never been and I didn't like it.

Jacek, I'd like to suggest you look into getting your adrenals tested. It seems doing a saliva panel is the best way. I'll have to find the one that was suggested and post.
Here ya go:  http://www.salivatest.com/
Here is a great link to adrenal weakness. I talk about this alot on this forum. I don't know how much you yourself know about the adrenals, but they "control" alot of  functions, etc.   Weak adrenals are a big problem and severly under diagnosed. I sent a link to my brother and sister-in-law who have huge health issues. They called me yesterday and said they thought "I'd" found the cause of many of their problems. They'll be getting tested soon and for thyroid as well.
Here's the adrenal info. Please read this, putting this info in perspective w/ what John McDonell O+ posted, makes sense and it might help:
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm

Wishing you the best...........




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Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:29pm
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,354
Gender: Female
I definitely agree with pat on that one.  That's why I said that I think that so much depression treatment is over medicated and can be addressed with other lifestyle changes.  The problem seems to be that the depression that is associated with bipolar disorder doesn't respond in the same way that regular clinical depression does (not that there really is a "regular" run-of-th-mill depression - please don't think that I am downplaying this).  Unfortunately, it seems that very little DOES work with true bipolars than medication.  Hopefully, as Edna said, some day that will change.  Unfortunately, part of the disorder is a tendency to NOT follow medical advise, take pills regulary, or follow health plans.  That's one of the reasons it is so hard to treat.  Bipolar people are famous for rebelling against meds and health protocols that can help them.

BTW, I'm not sure what the "Love" post has to do with all this, but it is a nice, albeit somewhat treacly sentiment.

I'm curious if anyone else here has any experience with Depakote/ Depakene or Seroquel?


FRESH START TODAY!!!

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Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:37pm
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italybound
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from EquiPro
Bipolar people are famous for rebelling against meds and health protocols that can help them.


Heard this over and over again. I don't know if it's that they feel so out of control because of having to take the meds that they do that or what...........but it does seem to be a problem w/ people w/ bipolar disorders. It may be a reason it's harder to get under control.  Stopping and starting.....throws what rythm your body is in.....all out again.  Stopping bipolar or even meds for depression is a serious problem, please don't do it.  The voice of reason, Dr. D, has spoken.



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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
that's why I've written something about *corresponders....and non-corresponders
the question here sometimes is, that the whole bunch is suffering under such personalities, but the
*persona* itself doesn't seem to suffer at all; thatswhy I wrote about the *egomane*....
we have to look at the *causa* and have to correct something right here, not elsewhere; but that means that the person attainte of this, is able to get  into a form of *introspection* and just this is not at all expected... thatswhy the form of flight and fight-syndrome too. The *end-effects* is a very outgoing
interaction and can be performed from all   bloodtypes; here it is meant no 3 and 7 in Riso's.....
the lack here in shortcuts means lack of the F-side...feeling......is not that much developed..... but allmostly the 7 is the one
and next: for us women, the biggest danger is, to take our partners back into a form of childish over-
protectivness, inwhich we arent' aware that none of our behaviour meant to be role-free!!!
on the otherside, all such roles are bearing the expectancies from those to get something of you...just a little more of a form of manipulations, but whats' that... it has happend...it stays still....and now you are going to search on patterns.....nothing else......

all such games are between male and female and are in need for not getting away from each other
or just  have an eye on the themata you are involved and which is the one you identify......
We can't take the whole responsabilities for somebody; even if this somebody is called *our* lifepartners.....

hey, if ya want to... have an onto http://www.enneagraminstitute.com...and detect your own thingies

Revision History (2 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:12pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:09pm
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resting
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,797
Gender: Male
Location: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
Age: 67
Hi folks,

I sure hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but MoDon's link poses some wild thinking for me .... I just wonder if this may be right or not ..... there are all kinds of knowledgeable folks here and I do not expect a 'right' answer .... I am hoping more for a gut-feeling response ...

the author of the link proposes that a GENERALIZED nutritional deficiency may be responsible for bipolar disorder and finds that targeted nutrition does not have long-term positive consequences, so he employs a wide ranged of amino acids and finds this much better.  I find this concept refreshingly different (and simple).  There are numerous derangements for sure, as Linus Pauling's article on Orthomolecular psychiatry (Isa) points out.

for decades it has been noted that the mineral density of our bones is at least 1/8th (often less) compared with the bone-mineral density of our ancestors.  Are many of these 'modern' ailments due to a skewing of very basic aspects of GENERALIZED nutrition?  ... from reading this article, I was  struck that he made no reference to minerals at all.  Strange, but all land-based foods are mineral-sparse.  Only ocean sea vegetation has the density of minerals able to restore mineral density to our bones ...

would a program of phytoplankton at http://www.umac-core.com + seaweed like mearl [phytocal], bladderwrack and dulse, etc. in very high doses help restore our bone density?  He also speaks of the necessity of digestive enzymes but does not mention raw veggies/fruit in this regard nor raw honey.    [I wonder if his amino acid blend would be more palatable with raw honey???]

example:

olive oil (ghee)
nutritional yeast
lecithin
a little lemon juice (freshly squeezed)
sea-salt to taste

seasonal options:
summer :::  NAP's Harmonia or, C-chlorella (www.shokos.com) +  seaweed (as above) + blend (as above) + raw honey + phytoplankton
winter  ::: much lessened protein needs - too much protein = dysbiosis (right JK?)


hope to hear from you .... like: can there be too much seaweed?

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Melissa_J
Saturday, May 27, 2006, 5:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
Administrator & Blogger
Posts: 5,045
Gender: Female
Location: Utah, USA
Age: 39
Fascinating thread, I just came across it as I've been having a separate battle lately.

Having had hypomania, and depression, I couldn't agree more about the seriousness of both of them.  Perhaps this is why I don't share the distrust of conventional doctors that some do: they have helped me numerous times.  Yes, some medications are awful for any particular person, Paxil was awful for me, Wellbutrin was weird but it worked.  I also feel that I have to do my part, and I know I don't always do so, in any respect.  Your doctor will see any progress that you make by your own efforts, and when it's time, he can help you go off any meds you should.  Going off meds isn't the end goal though, feeling good is.  In my case I was able to do both, but I'm a weird case.  

I'm just lucky that my bipolar is seasonal and I can now plan it by the calendar, that makes life much easier than those with much less predictable forms of the illness.  


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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italybound
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Just heard today about  Omega 3 for depression.  Among a ton of other things.
http://www.purityproducts.com             is running a "special" for a one month supply for the S&H fee.        Thereafter, they send a 3 mth supply at $24.95 per bottle, no S&H. You can cancel any time you like.

I did a google search and came up with all of these:
http://www.google.com/search?h.....p;btnG=Google+Search

Very very interesting infol



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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 9:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
yup..i-bound not that bad... but what I saw is, or better was, that all those supplements might interact with meds and lead the adrenal glands to overact; people get hot flashes and don't know why....
next: all such stuffies might enhance even some kinds of depressions, because we might have problems to give the juste right  exact dosage with those meds....

I'm not at all against whatsoever... but instead to get peoples riding on them, we don't change anything and depression is also a demand from and with your soul to get changed something in your life!

Once I asked our superdoc in a privat psychosomatic-clinique if he really thinks that he helps peoples out of their situation.... and he replied..*yes, I am persuated*
The only  psychstrist I've heared was Dr. Robert Rothschild* with all of his own honesty; we can't help
anybody with those medication, only diminishing their pains of their souls...
and now I think that best of all is to try what will work for you at best; but doing a mix-up between both; allopathic and phytos' or aminoacids I am not that fan of it; because we cant' really detect which kind of stuff did really something fo us

Revision History (1 edits)
Jacek  -  Monday, May 29, 2006, 10:57am
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Stormy
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 1:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Sam Dan
Posts: 569
Gender: Female
Location: Canada
In response to omega 3 and depression - I was off omega 3's for a couple of weeks cause I was short of cash.  Just went back on them yesterday, and boy, did I notice a difference in my thought process.  It felt like a wave of goodness washing over my mind.  Hadn't noticed that effect before; maybe cause I was never off them for any length of time.  I did get kinda down in the evening, but I attribute that to a sample of antipasto I tried at the Greek Market yesterday(tasted sugar in it), and sugar makes me depressed.


Faith and Hope 
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KAMO+
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 2:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 1991 by a psychologist who also had it .  it has been a rough 15 years.  initially i was prescribed lithium but, after 4 months on it, i was ready to walk out on my marriage and my two beautiful little daughters.  i was taken off the lithium and put on tegretol.  by the way, i had blood work being done the whole time.  the tegretol alowed me to sleep well but, way too much.  at times i had to consciously fight my way out of a "fog".  wellbutrin was added, tegretol subtracted, gabapentin added and i slowly got to a functioning place in my life.  i can tell you from experience why it is so hard to stay on your meds.  i am an artist and when i am manic i have the best ideas, the most energy (i rarely sleep for days) and an insight into much of what i want to "say" in my work.  i have to keep a sketchbook....if i don't, i know that i will lose all the thoughts and ideas that i had during this time.  for i know that at some point in time,  the darkness will return.  the mania is what some might call their muse.  it is very hard to turn that off, to know that if you take those drugs you won't have that same energy.  i have been tempted many times to go off my meds to get that spark back.  i chose to take my meds because i have 2 children and they are more important to me than anything.  i grew up with a sick mom who died young and the pain that is caused by that is immense and lasts all your life.  i would not put my kids through that.  but i am only one person and everyone has different lives.  ever see the movie "Phenomenon" with john travolta?  mania for me is similar to what he goes through.  it doesn't make a person a genius or give you kinetic energy, but i began to see things in a different light and then ideas would come and other ideas would branch off from those and so on and on.  i would talk a mile a minute and have to be told to slow down.  if i didn't talk it all out quickly, i was afraid it would get lost.  this is extremely exhilarating albeit exhausting.  one other thing that should be brought into this discussion is the current health care situation..  for those who do not have it or have mediocre plans,  psych. meds are expensive and since most of them are not prescribed without a psychiatrist,  that too is an expense.  until this country has as much compassion for those people who have mental health issues as they are to men (no offense) who want viagra,  we won't see much improvement in our lives.  

ps.......one way to help yourself and the ones who love and care for you is to keep a journal of sorts.....it will document the effects of your meds, diet and the other things going on in your life for inside information.   take care....................  :}
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italybound
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 2:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from KAMO+
until this country has as much compassion for those people who have mental health issues as they are to men (no offense) who want viagra,  we won't see much improvement in our lives.  


Very well said KAMO+................no offense to the men who need Viagra.
I don't know if this is still so, but used to be or may still be, insurance companies wouldn't/don't pay for birth control pills.............but they pay for Viagra? Where is the logic?  
I'm very much w/ KAMO+ on this...............we know sex is an important part of life, but a person's mental health is not? As expressed by KAMO+, not being able to get the help or the right meds can be very debilitating..  The bigger concern in our country seems to be about keeping the sex good. Seems they need to be put AT LEAST on equal footing. I think our insurance companies, government, pharms, whoever else is involved, have a    screwed up way of looking at things.




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Jacek  -  Sunday, May 28, 2006, 3:02pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Monday, May 29, 2006, 11:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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yup...never-ever there's any kind of offending  meant....but please have also an eye on this:

since birth we've got a  training in our own identifications withwhich we think thats this is *ours*...this is me or you...or him, or her... but please do take care of this *training* because of those forms of identifications...we only think that this is me,you,she,him etc...
all such thingies leaded us to go into pattern...behaviours and *believes*..... and we think that we are just living *right* our lifes...but far away from such kind of believes...because we are just living a form of *persona* = shadows and not our true real self:
this self is empty of all kinds of judgements, perceptions, intentions and EGO's.....this is our realy *royal* part of God!

*self-realisation* is faisable, it is the aim of all and not that far away from you and me, then we are just realizing it.....
please take those hours from your private time and read *The wisdom of the enneagram* from and with Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson and become more and more selfaware about yourself and of
others, if so, this ahaaaa is more then great, and allows your mental and inner healings to start immediately!!
If we did understood our patterns- so this allows us to come into the right actions without any kind or need of blaming some-or-any-body anymore....
and this combined with BTD....just awesome gals & guys good luck ..................
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OSuzanna
Tuesday, May 30, 2006, 3:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,618
Gender: Female
Location: Rhode Island
Age: 60
Equipro, I hear & understand. I do.


OSuzanna
A Before Picture , In the Process of Becoming an After Picture
FOOD for THOUGHT, Super Beneficial 4 All Blood Types!
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Jacek
Wednesday, June 14, 2006, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hello again,

Thank you for all your posts.... I will post more comments little bit later.

One remark - Dr.D - if you hear me - all of us with neurological problems need BTN or Blood Type Neurology / Psychiatry. Probably Depakene damage my GI tract, now I have very strange phenomenons with Tegretol.

Question – one of our fellows - members of BTD community will visit Poland soon - please advice what supplements from Dr. D store are essential in my case.
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Lola
Thursday, June 15, 2006, 12:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,445
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 58
Jacek,
have you done the 'determinator' yet?

I suggest you check and read up on all the supplements presented to you individually in the 'ingrediator':
http://www.dadamo.com/ingrediator/determinator.htm

Even though you might not buy the NAP products, you can get an idea of what you need by looking at the ingredients of the products recommended.
.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Jacek
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Cannot suggest supplements for individuals on anti-depressants or other similar medication.

Unfortunately The Determinator is not equipped to suggest NAP supplements to individuals who are taking anti-depressants or similar medications. If you are taking medicine for your heart or blood pressure and wish to use NAP supplements, we recommend that you discuss this first in person with your physician.


I'm taking Lexapro....
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Sandra_Aruba
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Quoted from Cocky
Just a nice email I received from a dear friend of mine just now!!!

I want to share this funny, but soo true email with all of you..

*************************************************
Tech Support: Yes, .. how can I help you?

Customer: Well, after much consideration, I've decided to install Love.
Can you guide me through the process?

Tech Support: Yes. I can help you. Are you ready to proceed?

Customer: Well, I'm not very technical, but I think I'm ready. What do I do first?



Tech Support: The first step is to open your Heart. Have you located your Heart?

Customer: Yes, but there are several other programs running now. Is it okay to
install Love while they are running?

Tech Support: What programs are running ?

Customer: Let's see, I have Past Hurt, Low Self-Esteem, Grudge and Resentment running right now.

Tech Support: No problem, Love will gradually erase Past Hurt from your current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory but it will no longer disrupt other programs. Love will eventually override Low Self-Esteem with a module of its own called High Self-Esteem. However, you have to completely turn off Grudge and Resentment. Those programs prevent Love from being properly installed.
Can you turn those off ?

Customer: I don't know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?

Tech Support: With pleasure. Go to your start menu and invoke Forgiveness.
Do this as many times as necessary until Grudge and Resentment have been completely erased.

Customer: Okay, done! Love has started installing itself. Is that normal?

Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You
need to begin connecting to other Hearts in order to get the upgrades.

Customer: Oops! I have an error message already. It says, "Error - Program
not run on external components." What should I do?

Tech Support: Don't worry. It means that the Love program is set up to run
on Internal Hearts, but has not yet been run on your Heart. In non-technical
terms, it simply means you have to Love yourself before you can Love others.

Customer: So, what should I do?

Tech Support: Pull down Self-Acceptance; then click on the following files:
Forgive-Self; Realize Your Worth; and Acknowledge your Limitations.

Customer: Okay, done.

Tech Support: Now, copy them to the "My Heart" directory. The system will
overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching faulty programming. >Also,
you need to delete Verbose Self-Criticism from all directories and empty your Recycle Bin to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.

Customer: Got it. Hey! My heart is filling up with new files. Smile is playing
on my monitor and Peace and Contentment are copying themselves all over
My Heart. Is this normal?

Tech Support: Sometimes. For others it takes awhile, but eventually
everything gets it at the proper time. So Love is installed and running. One
more thing before we hang up. Love is Freeware. Be sure to give it and its
various modules to everyone you meet. They will in turn share it with others
and return some cool modules back to you.

Customer: Thank you, God.

***************************************************

Cocky




This one is soooo true. It is all true. That is all I can say. Thanks Cocky, for posting that.

Now about the depression. I was depressed and at a certain point in time very well treatable with meds. However I was "lucky" in the fact that my depression was a result of my thyroid problems. Once my thyroid meds were better, the depression got better as well. It took me over a year, but it got better and at that point antidepressants only made things worse. I immediately quit my antidepressant when I found out that the side effect were worse then the cure, but I realized it was quite dangerous to do so.

Having said that I have to agree with Equi and say that you should not stop your meds just like that. Perhaps slowly weaning of them is the way to go. This way you have more control over what is happening.

Of course eating right will definitely help.

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Serena
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Am I the only one who read the part where he said "probably bi-polar" IF Bi-polar IS a chemical imbalance, there should be no probably, it should be a clear cut objective diagnosis. Absent that, then others can give the usual drugs don't help depression response. I know I suffered from depression last summer, but since following btd- ESP the avoiding wheat, and taking up intense cardio, I RARELY even feel glum, despite some current icky situations.
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EquiPro
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Bipolar disorder is diagnosed by a psychiatrist, which he says that he is seeing.  It is usually a "causal" diagnosis, based on behavior.

It would be unlikely that he would be given Depakene (Depakote) if he were not bipolar.  It is given to control mania and is usually taken along with an antidepressant like Lexapro.

Again, bipolar disorder is NOT depression.


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ISA-MANUELA
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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@ Sandra_Aruba and yes, very often depressions are related with or better said, missdiagnosed with
thyroideproblems; a hypo or hyper might be seen as be-polar or even uni-polar..... and I think at first get your T3& T4 tested...........and other hormons too
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Sandra_Aruba
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
@ Sandra_Aruba and yes, very often depressions are related with or better said, missdiagnosed with
thyroideproblems; a hypo or hyper might be seen as be-polar or even uni-polar..... and I think at first get your T3& T4 tested...........and other hormons too



Oh, yes this is very true. It was said to me by my psychiatrist, there are people who have a depression and a thryoid problem (seperate issues) and there are people who have a thyroid problem and developed a depression because of that. I was the latter and as such lucky. However the problem with doctors is that they are too fixed on looking at the values of the T3 & T4. As long as everything is within the "normal" range, there is no problem.

In my case it turned out that I don't do well in the "average" for most people. My t3 and t4 have to be higher then average. I found that out after 4 years of adjusting my thyroid meds. But the doctors kept me on the average. So I took more on my own accord and started feeling better. Then when after a few months I was tested again and they told me I should lower it, because I was above the average. I told them to stuff it that I was taking it as I felt good and would adjust as I kept losing weight and feeling better.

It is very important to not completely rely on doctors. They will keep you sick for years while it's not necessary at all and would rather prescribe more meds then try to keep you off them.
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from EquiPro
Again, bipolar disorder is NOT depression.

This might just be semantics/splitting hairs, because I agree with everything you've said about what bipolar disorder is (a chemical imbalance, etc.), but I have to disagree slightly with the sentence I've quoted above, as bipolar disorder is considered a form of depression.  If what you are saying is that it is NOT the same as a diagnosis of "clinical depression", you are correct, it is its own unique form of depression.  It cycles differently from "garden variety" depression, there are the manic highs and the low low's.  But it is a form of depression.  That said, a sunflower and an oak are both plant forms, but they are obviously very different.



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Jacek  -  Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:32pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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 yup Sandra....completely right...thatswhy we've got a brain...huh ....to use it and to be ready to take nothing for guaranted.....but just take whole responsability of your own health c'est tout
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