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Depression...   This thread currently has 2,249 views. Print Print Thread
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resting
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,797
Gender: Male
Location: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
Age: 67
Hi folks,

I sure hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but MoDon's link poses some wild thinking for me .... I just wonder if this may be right or not ..... there are all kinds of knowledgeable folks here and I do not expect a 'right' answer .... I am hoping more for a gut-feeling response ...

the author of the link proposes that a GENERALIZED nutritional deficiency may be responsible for bipolar disorder and finds that targeted nutrition does not have long-term positive consequences, so he employs a wide ranged of amino acids and finds this much better.  I find this concept refreshingly different (and simple).  There are numerous derangements for sure, as Linus Pauling's article on Orthomolecular psychiatry (Isa) points out.

for decades it has been noted that the mineral density of our bones is at least 1/8th (often less) compared with the bone-mineral density of our ancestors.  Are many of these 'modern' ailments due to a skewing of very basic aspects of GENERALIZED nutrition?  ... from reading this article, I was  struck that he made no reference to minerals at all.  Strange, but all land-based foods are mineral-sparse.  Only ocean sea vegetation has the density of minerals able to restore mineral density to our bones ...

would a program of phytoplankton at http://www.umac-core.com + seaweed like mearl [phytocal], bladderwrack and dulse, etc. in very high doses help restore our bone density?  He also speaks of the necessity of digestive enzymes but does not mention raw veggies/fruit in this regard nor raw honey.    [I wonder if his amino acid blend would be more palatable with raw honey???]

example:

olive oil (ghee)
nutritional yeast
lecithin
a little lemon juice (freshly squeezed)
sea-salt to taste

seasonal options:
summer :::  NAP's Harmonia or, C-chlorella (www.shokos.com) +  seaweed (as above) + blend (as above) + raw honey + phytoplankton
winter  ::: much lessened protein needs - too much protein = dysbiosis (right JK?)


hope to hear from you .... like: can there be too much seaweed?

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Melissa_J
Saturday, May 27, 2006, 5:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
Administrator & Blogger
Posts: 5,045
Gender: Female
Location: Utah, USA
Age: 39
Fascinating thread, I just came across it as I've been having a separate battle lately.

Having had hypomania, and depression, I couldn't agree more about the seriousness of both of them.  Perhaps this is why I don't share the distrust of conventional doctors that some do: they have helped me numerous times.  Yes, some medications are awful for any particular person, Paxil was awful for me, Wellbutrin was weird but it worked.  I also feel that I have to do my part, and I know I don't always do so, in any respect.  Your doctor will see any progress that you make by your own efforts, and when it's time, he can help you go off any meds you should.  Going off meds isn't the end goal though, feeling good is.  In my case I was able to do both, but I'm a weird case.  

I'm just lucky that my bipolar is seasonal and I can now plan it by the calendar, that makes life much easier than those with much less predictable forms of the illness.  


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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italybound
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,162
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Just heard today about  Omega 3 for depression.  Among a ton of other things.
http://www.purityproducts.com             is running a "special" for a one month supply for the S&H fee.        Thereafter, they send a 3 mth supply at $24.95 per bottle, no S&H. You can cancel any time you like.

I did a google search and came up with all of these:
http://www.google.com/search?h.....p;btnG=Google+Search

Very very interesting infol



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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 9:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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yup..i-bound not that bad... but what I saw is, or better was, that all those supplements might interact with meds and lead the adrenal glands to overact; people get hot flashes and don't know why....
next: all such stuffies might enhance even some kinds of depressions, because we might have problems to give the juste right  exact dosage with those meds....

I'm not at all against whatsoever... but instead to get peoples riding on them, we don't change anything and depression is also a demand from and with your soul to get changed something in your life!

Once I asked our superdoc in a privat psychosomatic-clinique if he really thinks that he helps peoples out of their situation.... and he replied..*yes, I am persuated*
The only  psychstrist I've heared was Dr. Robert Rothschild* with all of his own honesty; we can't help
anybody with those medication, only diminishing their pains of their souls...
and now I think that best of all is to try what will work for you at best; but doing a mix-up between both; allopathic and phytos' or aminoacids I am not that fan of it; because we cant' really detect which kind of stuff did really something fo us

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ISA-MANUELA  -  Monday, May 29, 2006, 10:57am
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Stormy
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 1:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Sam Dan
Posts: 569
Gender: Female
Location: Canada
In response to omega 3 and depression - I was off omega 3's for a couple of weeks cause I was short of cash.  Just went back on them yesterday, and boy, did I notice a difference in my thought process.  It felt like a wave of goodness washing over my mind.  Hadn't noticed that effect before; maybe cause I was never off them for any length of time.  I did get kinda down in the evening, but I attribute that to a sample of antipasto I tried at the Greek Market yesterday(tasted sugar in it), and sugar makes me depressed.


Faith and Hope 
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KAMO+
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 2:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 1991 by a psychologist who also had it .  it has been a rough 15 years.  initially i was prescribed lithium but, after 4 months on it, i was ready to walk out on my marriage and my two beautiful little daughters.  i was taken off the lithium and put on tegretol.  by the way, i had blood work being done the whole time.  the tegretol alowed me to sleep well but, way too much.  at times i had to consciously fight my way out of a "fog".  wellbutrin was added, tegretol subtracted, gabapentin added and i slowly got to a functioning place in my life.  i can tell you from experience why it is so hard to stay on your meds.  i am an artist and when i am manic i have the best ideas, the most energy (i rarely sleep for days) and an insight into much of what i want to "say" in my work.  i have to keep a sketchbook....if i don't, i know that i will lose all the thoughts and ideas that i had during this time.  for i know that at some point in time,  the darkness will return.  the mania is what some might call their muse.  it is very hard to turn that off, to know that if you take those drugs you won't have that same energy.  i have been tempted many times to go off my meds to get that spark back.  i chose to take my meds because i have 2 children and they are more important to me than anything.  i grew up with a sick mom who died young and the pain that is caused by that is immense and lasts all your life.  i would not put my kids through that.  but i am only one person and everyone has different lives.  ever see the movie "Phenomenon" with john travolta?  mania for me is similar to what he goes through.  it doesn't make a person a genius or give you kinetic energy, but i began to see things in a different light and then ideas would come and other ideas would branch off from those and so on and on.  i would talk a mile a minute and have to be told to slow down.  if i didn't talk it all out quickly, i was afraid it would get lost.  this is extremely exhilarating albeit exhausting.  one other thing that should be brought into this discussion is the current health care situation..  for those who do not have it or have mediocre plans,  psych. meds are expensive and since most of them are not prescribed without a psychiatrist,  that too is an expense.  until this country has as much compassion for those people who have mental health issues as they are to men (no offense) who want viagra,  we won't see much improvement in our lives.  

ps.......one way to help yourself and the ones who love and care for you is to keep a journal of sorts.....it will document the effects of your meds, diet and the other things going on in your life for inside information.   take care....................  :}
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italybound
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 2:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,162
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from KAMO+
until this country has as much compassion for those people who have mental health issues as they are to men (no offense) who want viagra,  we won't see much improvement in our lives.  


Very well said KAMO+................no offense to the men who need Viagra.
I don't know if this is still so, but used to be or may still be, insurance companies wouldn't/don't pay for birth control pills.............but they pay for Viagra? Where is the logic?  
I'm very much w/ KAMO+ on this...............we know sex is an important part of life, but a person's mental health is not? As expressed by KAMO+, not being able to get the help or the right meds can be very debilitating..  The bigger concern in our country seems to be about keeping the sex good. Seems they need to be put AT LEAST on equal footing. I think our insurance companies, government, pharms, whoever else is involved, have a    screwed up way of looking at things.




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ISA-MANUELA  -  Sunday, May 28, 2006, 3:02pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Monday, May 29, 2006, 11:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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yup...never-ever there's any kind of offending  meant....but please have also an eye on this:

since birth we've got a  training in our own identifications withwhich we think thats this is *ours*...this is me or you...or him, or her... but please do take care of this *training* because of those forms of identifications...we only think that this is me,you,she,him etc...
all such thingies leaded us to go into pattern...behaviours and *believes*..... and we think that we are just living *right* our lifes...but far away from such kind of believes...because we are just living a form of *persona* = shadows and not our true real self:
this self is empty of all kinds of judgements, perceptions, intentions and EGO's.....this is our realy *royal* part of God!

*self-realisation* is faisable, it is the aim of all and not that far away from you and me, then we are just realizing it.....
please take those hours from your private time and read *The wisdom of the enneagram* from and with Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson and become more and more selfaware about yourself and of
others, if so, this ahaaaa is more then great, and allows your mental and inner healings to start immediately!!
If we did understood our patterns- so this allows us to come into the right actions without any kind or need of blaming some-or-any-body anymore....
and this combined with BTD....just awesome gals & guys good luck ..................
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OSuzanna
Tuesday, May 30, 2006, 3:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,618
Gender: Female
Location: Rhode Island
Age: 59
Equipro, I hear & understand. I do.


OSuzanna
A Before Picture , In the Process of Becoming an After Picture
FOOD for THOUGHT, Super Beneficial 4 All Blood Types!
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Jacek
Wednesday, June 14, 2006, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hello again,

Thank you for all your posts.... I will post more comments little bit later.

One remark - Dr.D - if you hear me - all of us with neurological problems need BTN or Blood Type Neurology / Psychiatry. Probably Depakene damage my GI tract, now I have very strange phenomenons with Tegretol.

Question – one of our fellows - members of BTD community will visit Poland soon - please advice what supplements from Dr. D store are essential in my case.
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Lola
Thursday, June 15, 2006, 12:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 50,687
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57
Jacek,
have you done the 'determinator' yet?

I suggest you check and read up on all the supplements presented to you individually in the 'ingrediator':
http://www.dadamo.com/ingrediator/determinator.htm

Even though you might not buy the NAP products, you can get an idea of what you need by looking at the ingredients of the products recommended.
.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Jacek
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Cannot suggest supplements for individuals on anti-depressants or other similar medication.

Unfortunately The Determinator is not equipped to suggest NAP supplements to individuals who are taking anti-depressants or similar medications. If you are taking medicine for your heart or blood pressure and wish to use NAP supplements, we recommend that you discuss this first in person with your physician.


I'm taking Lexapro....
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Sandra_Aruba
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Cocky
Just a nice email I received from a dear friend of mine just now!!!

I want to share this funny, but soo true email with all of you..

*************************************************
Tech Support: Yes, .. how can I help you?

Customer: Well, after much consideration, I've decided to install Love.
Can you guide me through the process?

Tech Support: Yes. I can help you. Are you ready to proceed?

Customer: Well, I'm not very technical, but I think I'm ready. What do I do first?



Tech Support: The first step is to open your Heart. Have you located your Heart?

Customer: Yes, but there are several other programs running now. Is it okay to
install Love while they are running?

Tech Support: What programs are running ?

Customer: Let's see, I have Past Hurt, Low Self-Esteem, Grudge and Resentment running right now.

Tech Support: No problem, Love will gradually erase Past Hurt from your current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory but it will no longer disrupt other programs. Love will eventually override Low Self-Esteem with a module of its own called High Self-Esteem. However, you have to completely turn off Grudge and Resentment. Those programs prevent Love from being properly installed.
Can you turn those off ?

Customer: I don't know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?

Tech Support: With pleasure. Go to your start menu and invoke Forgiveness.
Do this as many times as necessary until Grudge and Resentment have been completely erased.

Customer: Okay, done! Love has started installing itself. Is that normal?

Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You
need to begin connecting to other Hearts in order to get the upgrades.

Customer: Oops! I have an error message already. It says, "Error - Program
not run on external components." What should I do?

Tech Support: Don't worry. It means that the Love program is set up to run
on Internal Hearts, but has not yet been run on your Heart. In non-technical
terms, it simply means you have to Love yourself before you can Love others.

Customer: So, what should I do?

Tech Support: Pull down Self-Acceptance; then click on the following files:
Forgive-Self; Realize Your Worth; and Acknowledge your Limitations.

Customer: Okay, done.

Tech Support: Now, copy them to the "My Heart" directory. The system will
overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching faulty programming. >Also,
you need to delete Verbose Self-Criticism from all directories and empty your Recycle Bin to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.

Customer: Got it. Hey! My heart is filling up with new files. Smile is playing
on my monitor and Peace and Contentment are copying themselves all over
My Heart. Is this normal?

Tech Support: Sometimes. For others it takes awhile, but eventually
everything gets it at the proper time. So Love is installed and running. One
more thing before we hang up. Love is Freeware. Be sure to give it and its
various modules to everyone you meet. They will in turn share it with others
and return some cool modules back to you.

Customer: Thank you, God.

***************************************************

Cocky




This one is soooo true. It is all true. That is all I can say. Thanks Cocky, for posting that.

Now about the depression. I was depressed and at a certain point in time very well treatable with meds. However I was "lucky" in the fact that my depression was a result of my thyroid problems. Once my thyroid meds were better, the depression got better as well. It took me over a year, but it got better and at that point antidepressants only made things worse. I immediately quit my antidepressant when I found out that the side effect were worse then the cure, but I realized it was quite dangerous to do so.

Having said that I have to agree with Equi and say that you should not stop your meds just like that. Perhaps slowly weaning of them is the way to go. This way you have more control over what is happening.

Of course eating right will definitely help.

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Serena
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Am I the only one who read the part where he said "probably bi-polar" IF Bi-polar IS a chemical imbalance, there should be no probably, it should be a clear cut objective diagnosis. Absent that, then others can give the usual drugs don't help depression response. I know I suffered from depression last summer, but since following btd- ESP the avoiding wheat, and taking up intense cardio, I RARELY even feel glum, despite some current icky situations.
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EquiPro
Friday, June 16, 2006, 12:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,184
Gender: Female
Bipolar disorder is diagnosed by a psychiatrist, which he says that he is seeing.  It is usually a "causal" diagnosis, based on behavior.

It would be unlikely that he would be given Depakene (Depakote) if he were not bipolar.  It is given to control mania and is usually taken along with an antidepressant like Lexapro.

Again, bipolar disorder is NOT depression.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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ISA-MANUELA
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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@ Sandra_Aruba and yes, very often depressions are related with or better said, missdiagnosed with
thyroideproblems; a hypo or hyper might be seen as be-polar or even uni-polar..... and I think at first get your T3& T4 tested...........and other hormons too
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Sandra_Aruba
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
@ Sandra_Aruba and yes, very often depressions are related with or better said, missdiagnosed with
thyroideproblems; a hypo or hyper might be seen as be-polar or even uni-polar..... and I think at first get your T3& T4 tested...........and other hormons too



Oh, yes this is very true. It was said to me by my psychiatrist, there are people who have a depression and a thryoid problem (seperate issues) and there are people who have a thyroid problem and developed a depression because of that. I was the latter and as such lucky. However the problem with doctors is that they are too fixed on looking at the values of the T3 & T4. As long as everything is within the "normal" range, there is no problem.

In my case it turned out that I don't do well in the "average" for most people. My t3 and t4 have to be higher then average. I found that out after 4 years of adjusting my thyroid meds. But the doctors kept me on the average. So I took more on my own accord and started feeling better. Then when after a few months I was tested again and they told me I should lower it, because I was above the average. I told them to stuff it that I was taking it as I felt good and would adjust as I kept losing weight and feeling better.

It is very important to not completely rely on doctors. They will keep you sick for years while it's not necessary at all and would rather prescribe more meds then try to keep you off them.
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 11,018
Gender: Female
Location: Florida
Age: 52
Quoted from EquiPro
Again, bipolar disorder is NOT depression.

This might just be semantics/splitting hairs, because I agree with everything you've said about what bipolar disorder is (a chemical imbalance, etc.), but I have to disagree slightly with the sentence I've quoted above, as bipolar disorder is considered a form of depression.  If what you are saying is that it is NOT the same as a diagnosis of "clinical depression", you are correct, it is its own unique form of depression.  It cycles differently from "garden variety" depression, there are the manic highs and the low low's.  But it is a form of depression.  That said, a sunflower and an oak are both plant forms, but they are obviously very different.



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

my Facebook page

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ISA-MANUELA  -  Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:32pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Friday, June 16, 2006, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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 yup Sandra....completely right...thatswhy we've got a brain...huh ....to use it and to be ready to take nothing for guaranted.....but just take whole responsability of your own health c'est tout
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