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Jacek
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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My big comeback - older BTD'ers probably remember me...  


I was away of forum for several months as I was deeply touched by something like IBS (not as defined medically - rather kind of abdominal pain) and depression. Probably bipolar - typical for all zero's but without typical maniac periods during all past life...). One of my doctors suggests so i had all past life hypomania....
It is strange, but to keep internal consistency I had a problem discussing my health adventures with anyone but doctors…
Even if I was still active (working from home and very well progressing with my company) it was very difficult experience with almost constant serious pain and all what you may suppose... I had several weird treatments (those horrible neurolepthics), and now I know that psychiatry and neurology is still far away from knowing the truth.

Now I need your help...

After successful depression treatment with Lexapro i was poisoned by something what is known in the world as DEPAKENE (Lexapro in some way overdrives my nervous system). Despite all typical and well known side effects I found another one. It does not reduce my pain and in strange way change the perception. It is very difficult to explain but I heard myself (like echo...), almost everything was perceived twice, like a strobe effects... . It bringing idea that nervous system works not only in the simple way treated by chemical drugs but have kind of backup system working in quite different way.
Now again I have prescribed Tegretol - any idea if this may help or kill me like depakene?
All other ideas, treatments,  supplement suggestions?

All the best – live right to avoid my problem (many years I had no vacations).

Jacek

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Jacek  -  Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:00pm
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EquiPro
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hubby was put onto depakote (same as depakene) and it was not good for him.  Gave him very, very bizarre dreams and seemed to depress him.  He had a bunch of weird symptoms on Depakote, so his Dr. took him off of it.  The strange symptoms abated over time.  Depakote, btw, is used to control the mania portion of bipolar disorder.

DH has to fight the depressive part of bipolar far more than the mania and he still, occassionally, takes Lexapro.  He had been on Lexapro for years, but after careful monitoring it became appearent that taking it regularly it tended to keep him too "down", so  his psychiatrist has changed him (over time) to:

150 mg Wellbutrin XL 2x per day (morning and mid-morning)
100 mg Seroquel at night.

If his depression hits him hard, as it does occassionally, he is still recommended to take the lexapro for a day or two, but, in general, the Wellbutrin works much better for him because it keeps him "up" rather than "down"


The Seroquel works much better for him for controlling his mania and, best of all, helps him sleep normally, something that he hasn't done for 20+ years.

Why don't you talk to your Dr. about Seroquel?

It seems that, with bipolar disorder, you have to keep trying different combos until you find one that works for you.


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Lola
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would start exercising daily.........
begin with a bit everyday, always at the same time, preferably first thing in the morning.

outdoor walks are great (lots of fresh air breathing)........helps you focus, plan and execute your plan toward healing, physically and mentally.

do you smoke?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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EquiPro
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I'm sorry, Isa, but I couldn't disagree with you more.  Bipolar disorder is serious, and just as no one would suggest that a diabetic stop taking insulin or solve their diabetes with exercise, no one should suggest that a person who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder (and sure he would not have been perscribed an anti-mania drug without a diagnosis) stop taking their meds.

One of the biggest problems that people who are bipolar HAVE is not taking their meds on a regular basis.  It is wholy impossible for you or anyone else to diagnose someone as bipolar or not being bipolar from any posts on this board.  Bipolar people do not have a "splitted mind" - that might be someone who is schizophrenic.  Bipolar people have chemical problem in their brain where their brain "cycles" between depression and mania.  The cycling can be very long - as in someone who suffers from severe depression for years, but then when not depressed is unusually "high" or they can "cycle" several times in a minute.

This is not something to mess around with.  Bipolar disorder is serious.

Please, please Jacek, do NOT abruptly stop taking your meds because someone on a forum suggests that you do so. Many of the drugs that bipolar people take are SERIOUS medications and cannot be quit cold turkey.  This take medical professionals, not laypeople who are talking about their diets.

One thing that you DO need to do, Jacek, is to stop all consumption of alcohol.  If you are not able to do so, you might seek a treatment program for it.  Bipolar people can be SERIOUSLY affected by even the smallest amounts of alcohol.  Whereas most people may not be affected by one beer, one beer can throw a bipolar person into a terrible cycle of depression that takes days to even out.  You may also wish to stop all caffein consumption.  Both of these chemicals can affect bipolar people in a way that they don't affect others.  DH has quit alcohol and there is a HUGE difference in his management of his depression, but still self-medicates with caffeine.  I think that it will be a much harder road for him to give that one up.

This is a great site for the basic explainations of bipolar disorder:

http://www.psychguides.com/bphe.php


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EquiPro
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 9:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I understand what you are saying, but first of all, it is usually not therapists here in the US that are allowed to diagnose and perscribe meds for bipolar disorder.  For someone to tell a bipolar person to stop taking their meds is really scary to me.  It could throw him into severe depression or severe mania.  Since none of us really know anyone closely who posts on internet forums, it is just not a good idea to make medical recommendation to someone, and telling a person who has been diagnosed as bipolar that they shouldn't take their meds is a medical recommendation.  Who knows what the consequences could be?

Nowhere did he say that he was taking lithium or that the doctor had recommended a dosage increase.  What he was asking about was the Depakene and that's what I was commenting about, as DH had some weird side-effects from that one, too.

I don't know how things work where you live, but here you would not be allowed to perscribe the kind of medicines that this person is taking without being a doctor.  Just working with doctors or therapists is not enough, and although I agree that there are a lot of bad doctors out there, it is not the place of this board to have people make a medical diagnosis or a medical recommendation with something as serious as bipolar disorder.

I agree with you that there are a lot of therapists with their own agendas, and not very good agendas at that, but there is no way to know what is really going on from a few posts on a message board.

Jacet was complaining about Depakene, which is another form of medication that my DH had taken, called Depakote.  I wrote because DH also complained of some strange symptoms on the Depakote.  His psychiatrist weaned him off of this med and tried him on something else that has worked very well.  Does that mean that this would also work for Jacet?  Who knows?  None of us, except he and his mental health provider, know enough details to know what he needs.  

You don't know if he has mania or not, whether it is rapid cycling or not, whether he is bipolar I or bipolar II, whether he is affected severely by depression or not and what the consequences of dealing with the bipolar disorder have been for him.  Neither do I.  It is often very hard to diagnose bipolar disorder, as it talks about in the article on that hyperlink.  It is hard for the individual to judge the length and depth of depression or the reality of mania.  I think that the article said that the average length of time for correct diagnosis is 8 years.  It certainly can't be done with a few posts on a message board. I say, leave that part to his caregivers.  It's safest that way.   We would not want to be the cause of damage in any way.

That's why I think that it is important to not make medical recommendation to this person.  

Finally, while I do agree that it is best to try to treat people as holistically as possible, to deny that there are people who really DO need medicines in order to live better lives is to deny them good treatment.  I know that DH is SO much better than he has been since I have known him, now that he is getting meds to help him deal with bipolar disorder.  I would never deny him this in favor of holisitic treatment.  Not with this type of case.


FRESH START TODAY!!!

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Jacek  -  Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 9:57pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 10:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hmmm I am still insisting in http://www.orthomed.org  for further infos' ............
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mikeo
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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go off the meds slowly if possible and start eating right for your type making sure you stay away from grains as much as possible and incorporate exercise into your daily routine...the endorphines via the exercise will help aleviate your depression as well give you an outlet when you feel manic...

Stop watching the news on TV and reading the newspaper for a week...you would be amazed how better you will feel.

B12 and Russian rhodiola are supplements that may help

the goal is to get your dopamine levels where they are not too high(manic) and not too low(depression).Eating high quality meat or beneficial protein in lieu of wheat or any other grains will help stabalize your dopamine levels

try to go to sleep at the same time every night and wake at the same time everyday and get as much sunlight as possible without burning.

feeling manic....move.....exercise
feeling depressed...stay away from wheat and grains...eat a nice piece of meat or fish or protien powder(see Dr D's protein)...make sure you eat enough protein in the morning....make it your top protein meal of the day..it will stabalize your mood for the day ahead

good luck




RHN MIfHI
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Lola
Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 11:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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right Mike......
Quoted Text
Dr. D on wheat and depression:

Wheat is known to inhibit dopamine beta hydroxylase (DBH), an enzyme that converts adrenaline-like precursors to dopamine.

DBH is genetically compromised in type O's (found on same chromosome as ABO, and extensively linked to ABO) who often wind up having too much adrenaline and too little dopamine when they consume wheat.

Less direct link in the other types.

BTW: what increases DBH? High protein diet and exercise!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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KimonoKat
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would recommend eating like a nonnie, or even more compliant by following one of the health series books.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 2:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I dunno, guys.  Bipolar disorder is  NOT just depression, and I don't think that it is a good idea for any of us to recommend that he stop taking meds.  I don't believe that bipolar disorder can be effectively treated with diet and exercise, and I think that the worst thing that could happen is for Jacet to be encouraged to go off of perscribed meds.

In fact, I'm stepping out of this thread.  I think that it is a serious issue.  Jacet asked about a reaction to a specific med, and people are recommending stopping medications and a dietary approach to something that could be and probably is far more serious than should be addressed here.


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resting
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 2:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Jacek,

yep, your old buddy is still around ... it is very hard to give you any kind of advice ... because following this can lead you into mood swings very quickly .... if you wish to try different approaches have your therapist/psychiatrist monitor you for change .... what he would normally do if introducing a new drug into your regime.  Because of the nature of your illness it is at times very difficult to self-assess that anything is wrong (manic) ... my sister has bi-polar, as does the son of a good friend.

There are a number of things to try ... a) because you did have digestive problems for years - a leaky gut can explain many of your symptoms - try to be very compliant with an 0-nonnie regime (diet + exercise - in the sun)... + no smoking, no booze, no sugar and no chocolate, add protocols for candida, intestinal health ... high amounts of chlorophyll - the stinging nettle extract is ideal for 0's during summer, high amounts of Polyflora-0 from NAP,  as well their new supplement Intrinsica should help ... b) if you wish to give Isa's approach a try - read over the article by Linus Pauling on Psychiatry & Orthomolecular medicine.  c) phytoplankton at http://www.umac-core.com .  Please, understand that these are not a quick-fix and it may take some time before finding your particular solution.

good luck ..........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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After reading John's post about some of your history of digestive problems I thought you might be interested in reading this article Concepts and Ideas to Treat Depression Naturally.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 7:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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sorry here I am with Mikeo and of course John; because if you go ahead with the lacks causing such *imbalances* and also getting aware without blaming whatsoever about your real situation, instead lying at yourself why
you can't stay anymore such emptyness and then getting into actions....= re-actions.... a form of flight and fight-syndrome, too.... so have a look onto your *self* and work on it.
From one dependancy to another doesn't solve any kind of problems, because all of those *friendly*
drugs are only meant to get ya into dependancy and no help in reality....that's la causa....because no
pharmaphirm can be alife without selling something.....= exploitation en gros making believe people with terms they can accept and identify with..........
thatswhy I am telling my clients: become your own teacher, your own master of your life and begin to use your brain instead getting your head to your hairdresser .....  once a month  

p.s.
thatswhy I love this forum so much, here you might get the answers frank and freely outspoken and very less of bla's and thatswhy I love the approach of Peter so much, he and the orthomoleculars and some of the phyto's and homeopaths are the only one in a correct and acceptable and valide form to solve the problems and not
turning around the hot potty Peter is one of the rare gems who attacks it by its corns and nothing else...he calls you for a positive approach to get out of those situations, and not to stay in......that's what we have to do and to follow and to teach .....................................!!!.................................................................................
even the translation in the bible is wrongly interpreted: I am the one who I am....
means in reality I am the one.. I'll become............(ich bin der ich werde....)

Revision History (2 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 8:15am
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 7:55am
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RhodaMaria
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 9:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
have a look onto your *self* and work on it.
From one dependancy to another doesn't solve any kind of problems, because all of those *friendly*drugs are only meant to get ya into dependancy and no help in reality
thatswhy I am telling my clients: become your own teacher, your own master of your life and begin to use your brain instead getting your head to your hairdresser .....  once a month  

p.s.
thatswhy I love this forum so much, here you might get the answers frank and freely outspoken and very less of bla's and thatswhy I love the approach of Peter so much, he and the orthomoleculars and some of the phyto's and homeopaths are the only one in a correct and acceptable and valide form to solve the problems and not
turning around the hot potty Peter is one of the rare gems who attacks it by its corns and nothing else...he calls you for a positive approach to get out of those situations, and not to stay in......that's what we have to do and to follow and to teach .....................................!!!.................................................................................
even the translation in the bible is wrongly interpreted: I am the one who I am....
means in reality I am the one.. I'll become............(ich bin der ich werde....)


Well said, Isa.. I could not agree more with you, John and Modon...
Of course under monitoring closely by a good therapist...
Once you are on those meds, the road goes down, instead of UP...

Cocky
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Dr. D
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 9:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Jacek, listen to all this advice, but remember, if you plan to do anything, make sure that you do it in concert with the doctor who precribed the medicine.

In other words, the person who put you one it is the person who should take you off...

This is because the withdrawal of the medicine can greatly accelerate the mania/ or depressio effect, so it must be done expertly.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

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Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 9:32am
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 12:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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"Once you are on those meds, the road goes down, instead of UP..."

I wonder how many people posting this have lived with this disorder?  I really do.  I have lived with it for 18 years.  18 years of sometimes off the meds, sometimes on the meds, and never the right meds.  And while there have been great times and wonderful things, this disorder had brought this family to a state of complete ruin, from which we are just now recovering and which may take us years - decades - to finally recover.

I think that it is all well and good to make these statements on an observational level, but it is a whole 'nother thing to live through it.

Since FINALLY being properly diagnosed, hubby has started on various medications in combination to help him manage this, and let me tell you, the "road" is finally going up.  There has been a change in my husband that I have never seen and it is all good.   Finally we are not dealing with debilitating depression.  Finally we are not subjected to manic phases that have, at times, wiped us out financially.  Finally we are getting some normalcy in our lives.  Unfortunately, the ramifications of living with a bipolar person untreated are still with us.  The worst, I am afraid, is not over.

You people are stating YOUR own agendas here.  Aside from John, what I am hearing is experience from a clinical level.  It is not like living with it 24/7.

You do a disservice to those struggling with this to say that all meds are bad and that the meds are a downhill road.  That's just not true, and I can tell you this from experience.

I won't stay with this disorder if it is not medicated.  I won't live my life like that anymore.  In this case, and in the cases of others that I have met who face the challenges of this disorder, proper medication is, in MY opinion, and with MY VAST experience at this point, key.

If you read up on bipolar disorder, across the board you will find experts in this particular field saying that bipolar disorder is often not treatable EXCEPT with medication.  Therapy often doesn't help.  We're trying that, so I can't tell you if, in our case, it helps or not.  All I know is that these medications are a god-send, and I, personally, resent people implying that they are always bad.

Unless you have lived with it, you have no real idea how destructive and debilitating this disorder is to the person who has it, but perhaps even more to their family.  

I still hope that Jacek will listen to his Dr. and follow his advise.  I hope that he doesn't, on the advise of people her, no matter how well-meaning, go off of his meds.

Let me ask you this:  is everyone here who is so against the medications for this disorder ready to step up and pick up the pieces of his life if disaster ensues?  Because, most likely, it will.   I'm living through that disaster.  I would never, EVER recommend that a person with this disorder go off their meds or go against their doctors advise.  I know only too well what can happen.

Jacek, your post has made you the center of a debate now.  I'm sorry about that.

I hope that you talk all of this over with your doctor thoroughly.  I'm sure that John's advise on the leaky gut can help.  If you are struggling with the mania phase, which is what Depakene is for, you might ask your Dr. about Seroquel.  It has REALLY worked well for my husband.   For the first time in 20 years he is sleeping a normal sleep cycle, and I have only seen one or two small manic episodes since he started on that med.  Combined with the Wellbutrin, he seems to be stablizing and the good news is that he doesn't not appear to be having any serious side-effects from this combination.  Perhaps your doctor would want to try you on this combo?

The Depakote (Depakene) DID make him feel bizarre, with twitchiness and skincrawls as well as very vivid and strange dreams.  He gave it a good try, since it was his doctors first choice, but it did not work for him.  

Good luck!  


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Peppermint Twist
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 12:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a very interesting thread.

My father was bipolar.  He was not diagnosed correctly until very late in his life, just towards the end of his life, actually.  Without going into a big, long thing, he was basically untreated or mistreated (as in, treated incorrectly) his entire life.  He also self-medicated with alcohol and was a life-long alcoholic.  Until recently, this (not being correctly diagnosed or treated) was apparently fairly typical because the disease was so little understood.  It was called manic-depression then, too.

Anyway, all I want to add to this thread is that I think everyone is right in a sense:  Equipro is correct that this is a chemical imbalance.  It is an imbalance in the brain chemistry.  Therefore, imho, it is a physical illness with mental symptoms.  It isn't something that can be treated with therapy, in other words, I think that is something we can all agree on and that wasn't even an issue in this thread.  But as far as drugs go, since this is a chemical imbalance, I--and I'm extremely, extremely conservative about treating anything with drugs--do feel that, right now, drugs are the treatment of choice for bipolar disorder.  The chemical imbalance has got to be balanced somehow.  Right now, the only way known to do it is with drugs.

However, that said, I strongly believe that, as our knowledge of nutrition, nutrigenomics and nutricueticals increases, there is great hope that, in the future, bipolar disorder will be treatable with targeted, customized diet and supplements.  But I feel that, unfortunately for Jacek and others who are challenged with bipolar disorder right now, a nutrigenomic approach alone may not be enough, as our understanding and knowledge of nutrigenomics is not yet evolved enough, it simply isn't, to properly balance the brain chemistry of the bipolar individual.  Therefore, I think everyone is right in this thread:  Right now, medication is the way to go, in tandem of course with an optimal BTD program and taking good care of yourself in terms of sleep, exercise, not smoking, etc.  And, whatever you do, don't drink alcohol, it will throw off your treatment.

What I'm saying is:  In the present day, a combination of medication and nutrigenomics is the way to go for bipolar disorder...in the future, nutrigenomics alone, hopefully, will be the way to go.

Edited to add:  and, whatever you do, as Dr. D. said, don't stop your medication unless you work with your doctor on it.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Revision History (4 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:46pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:45pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:13pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:12pm
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 1:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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dear EquiPro...don't ya think that 12 year living with such an individual is quiet enough...huh
and since he was able to accept that he was in need of such medication, took me and dear I've a life too, not only those egomanes.....

haver a look beyond all such *points* have a look also in Riso's then you understand the causa and then you might be able to go against in best intentions, but what's about peoples passed over their 50ties ....can't change them, if they don't want by themselves...can't do anything for em, they are only reduced to get the right of being *consumers*...that's the most crucial of all!

For all kinds of so named *dis-orders* there's a remedy..... but also a need for
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RhodaMaria
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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
have a look also in Riso's then you understand the causa and then you might be able to go against in best intentions, but what's about peoples passed over their 50ties ....can't change them, if they don't want by themselves...can't do anything for em, they are only reduced to get the right of being *consumers*...that's the most crucial of all!


Riso made me see the way I was going in my life... It was an eye-opener for me..
So... I was on the way down myself without fully realizing it myself...
I was lucky to have a great friend around who showed me that wrong way and... the right way to overcome my depression.
As long as you see what IS you and what is NOT you, you can choose..

Anyway just my experience from a dark period in my life..

Cocky
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 2:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I am not downplaying your experiences, either, but the thing is this:

bipolar disorder IS NOT depression.  


It's just not.  I firmly believe that A LOT of depression can be treated without meds.  I firmly believe that anti-depressants are over perscribed.  I totally affirm that many people experiencing depression are doing so because of factors in their lives other than seratonin issues.

but bipolar disorder is not depression.

You can't look at them the same way.  You don't treat them the same way.  They don't respond to things the same way.

I have been depressed several times in my life.  For one period, antidepressants really helped me and, in some ways, saved my life.  But for other periods, they were, indeed, a terrible road for me.

For a bipolar person, it isn't the same thing and it isn't the same issues.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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RhodaMaria
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Just a nice email I received from a dear friend of mine just now!!!

I want to share this funny, but soo true email with all of you..

*************************************************
Tech Support: Yes, .. how can I help you?

Customer: Well, after much consideration, I've decided to install Love.
Can you guide me through the process?

Tech Support: Yes. I can help you. Are you ready to proceed?

Customer: Well, I'm not very technical, but I think I'm ready. What do I do first?



Tech Support: The first step is to open your Heart. Have you located your Heart?

Customer: Yes, but there are several other programs running now. Is it okay to
install Love while they are running?

Tech Support: What programs are running ?

Customer: Let's see, I have Past Hurt, Low Self-Esteem, Grudge and Resentment running right now.

Tech Support: No problem, Love will gradually erase Past Hurt from your current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory but it will no longer disrupt other programs. Love will eventually override Low Self-Esteem with a module of its own called High Self-Esteem. However, you have to completely turn off Grudge and Resentment. Those programs prevent Love from being properly installed.
Can you turn those off ?

Customer: I don't know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?

Tech Support: With pleasure. Go to your start menu and invoke Forgiveness.
Do this as many times as necessary until Grudge and Resentment have been completely erased.

Customer: Okay, done! Love has started installing itself. Is that normal?

Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You
need to begin connecting to other Hearts in order to get the upgrades.

Customer: Oops! I have an error message already. It says, "Error - Program
not run on external components." What should I do?

Tech Support: Don't worry. It means that the Love program is set up to run
on Internal Hearts, but has not yet been run on your Heart. In non-technical
terms, it simply means you have to Love yourself before you can Love others.

Customer: So, what should I do?

Tech Support: Pull down Self-Acceptance; then click on the following files:
Forgive-Self; Realize Your Worth; and Acknowledge your Limitations.

Customer: Okay, done.

Tech Support: Now, copy them to the "My Heart" directory. The system will
overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching faulty programming. >Also,
you need to delete Verbose Self-Criticism from all directories and empty your Recycle Bin to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.

Customer: Got it. Hey! My heart is filling up with new files. Smile is playing
on my monitor and Peace and Contentment are copying themselves all over
My Heart. Is this normal?

Tech Support: Sometimes. For others it takes awhile, but eventually
everything gets it at the proper time. So Love is installed and running. One
more thing before we hang up. Love is Freeware. Be sure to give it and its
various modules to everyone you meet. They will in turn share it with others
and return some cool modules back to you.

Customer: Thank you, God.

***************************************************

Cocky


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italybound
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from Edna
Therefore, I think everyone is right in this thread:  Right now, medication is the way to go, in tandem of course with an optimal BTD program and taking good care of yourself in terms of sleep, exercise, not smoking, etc.  And, whatever you do, don't drink alcohol, it will throw off your treatment.

Edited to add:  and, whatever you do, as Dr. D. said, don't stop your medication unless you work with your doctor on it.


I think Edna sums it up pretty well here. I don't know a ton about bipolar, but I've read enough to know you can't just stop your meds. I've read articles about people who did and the serious consequences.
As Dr. D says, "if you plan to do anything, make sure that you do it in concert with the doctor who precribed the medicine. In other words, the person who put you one it is the person who should take you off... This is because the withdrawal of the medicine can greatly accelerate the mania/ or depressio effect, so it must be done expertly."  This directly reminds me of the horror stories I've read of people who stopped their meds on their own. The meds one takes for bipolar are serious meds. We who do not have this disorder, do not understand how they work. Nor may those that take them.
On the other hand, I do firmly believe changing up ones diet to be as totally and completely compliant BTD is absolutely a must!   I know E/P says bipolar is not depression and I'm not disagreeing w/ her. What I am saying is that depression is a symptom of bipolar and I totally believe depression can be treated w/ diet control. I went thru a serious depression back in Oct/Nov.  The dr said I was clinically depressed, insisted I take some meds and sent me on my way. Meds went in the trash, I totally cleaned up my diet, got back on my adrenal meds as I should have been and within a week or so, I was fine and have been since. To say I was a little depressed would be incorrect. It was somewhere I've never been and I didn't like it.

Jacek, I'd like to suggest you look into getting your adrenals tested. It seems doing a saliva panel is the best way. I'll have to find the one that was suggested and post.
Here ya go:  http://www.salivatest.com/
Here is a great link to adrenal weakness. I talk about this alot on this forum. I don't know how much you yourself know about the adrenals, but they "control" alot of  functions, etc.   Weak adrenals are a big problem and severly under diagnosed. I sent a link to my brother and sister-in-law who have huge health issues. They called me yesterday and said they thought "I'd" found the cause of many of their problems. They'll be getting tested soon and for thyroid as well.
Here's the adrenal info. Please read this, putting this info in perspective w/ what John McDonell O+ posted, makes sense and it might help:
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm

Wishing you the best...........




Revision History (1 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:29pm
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EquiPro
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,332
Gender: Female
I definitely agree with pat on that one.  That's why I said that I think that so much depression treatment is over medicated and can be addressed with other lifestyle changes.  The problem seems to be that the depression that is associated with bipolar disorder doesn't respond in the same way that regular clinical depression does (not that there really is a "regular" run-of-th-mill depression - please don't think that I am downplaying this).  Unfortunately, it seems that very little DOES work with true bipolars than medication.  Hopefully, as Edna said, some day that will change.  Unfortunately, part of the disorder is a tendency to NOT follow medical advise, take pills regulary, or follow health plans.  That's one of the reasons it is so hard to treat.  Bipolar people are famous for rebelling against meds and health protocols that can help them.

BTW, I'm not sure what the "Love" post has to do with all this, but it is a nice, albeit somewhat treacly sentiment.

I'm curious if anyone else here has any experience with Depakote/ Depakene or Seroquel?


FRESH START TODAY!!!

Revision History (1 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:37pm
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italybound
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 3:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from EquiPro
Bipolar people are famous for rebelling against meds and health protocols that can help them.


Heard this over and over again. I don't know if it's that they feel so out of control because of having to take the meds that they do that or what...........but it does seem to be a problem w/ people w/ bipolar disorders. It may be a reason it's harder to get under control.  Stopping and starting.....throws what rythm your body is in.....all out again.  Stopping bipolar or even meds for depression is a serious problem, please don't do it.  The voice of reason, Dr. D, has spoken.



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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
that's why I've written something about *corresponders....and non-corresponders
the question here sometimes is, that the whole bunch is suffering under such personalities, but the
*persona* itself doesn't seem to suffer at all; thatswhy I wrote about the *egomane*....
we have to look at the *causa* and have to correct something right here, not elsewhere; but that means that the person attainte of this, is able to get  into a form of *introspection* and just this is not at all expected... thatswhy the form of flight and fight-syndrome too. The *end-effects* is a very outgoing
interaction and can be performed from all   bloodtypes; here it is meant no 3 and 7 in Riso's.....
the lack here in shortcuts means lack of the F-side...feeling......is not that much developed..... but allmostly the 7 is the one
and next: for us women, the biggest danger is, to take our partners back into a form of childish over-
protectivness, inwhich we arent' aware that none of our behaviour meant to be role-free!!!
on the otherside, all such roles are bearing the expectancies from those to get something of you...just a little more of a form of manipulations, but whats' that... it has happend...it stays still....and now you are going to search on patterns.....nothing else......

all such games are between male and female and are in need for not getting away from each other
or just  have an eye on the themata you are involved and which is the one you identify......
We can't take the whole responsabilities for somebody; even if this somebody is called *our* lifepartners.....

hey, if ya want to... have an onto http://www.enneagraminstitute.com...and detect your own thingies

Revision History (2 edits)
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:12pm
Jacek  -  Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 4:09pm
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