OK, I just read a link to Dr. D's reliable guide to using Intrinsia......I failed 3 fingerprintings because I have so many lines in my fingertips.  I was going to
be a teacher's aide at a local private school.  I decided against the job, partly
because they couldn't get decent fingerprints out of me....
But this idea that the lines are an indication of poor gut integrity seems quite
plausible in my case.  So I have just ordered a couple of bottles of instrinsia.  I will
post in the future about the state of my fingertips.....will be interesting to see if
taking this and polyflora will help them become more readable....

Be prepared to give it time (a few months) before you see improvement. Also, be sure to follow the diet closely. Avoids are the primary cause of the condition, you won't wat to be eating any! Seek as many beneficial foods as possible. A tier 2 diet would be best........

I'm working on a gut integrity issue myself and have been for a few months. It's hard to be patient in this world of instant gratification!

I suggest you review the Intestinal Health Protocols.

You might also want to read the Colostrum, etc. thread, which deals with gut integrity issues.


I agree with Lloyd that it will take months to heal the intestines. I believe I can see some improvement in my fingerprint lines after being on the protocols for about 6 weeks.

I've been meaning to ask a question on Intrinsa myself.  Maybe I haven't been compliant enough or maybe I'm having some candida die-off problems from it, but it gives me really loose stools.  Anybody else notice this?  I've taken a break from it to improve my diet and rebuild my flora, then I'll try it again.  Dr. D's post does say that it takes good compliance at the same time as the intrinsa, so maybe that's the problem.

Quoted from Melissa_J

I've been meaning to ask a question on Intrinsa myself.  Maybe I haven't been compliant enough or maybe I'm having some candida die-off problems from it, but it gives me really loose stools.  Anybody else notice this?  I've taken a break from it to improve my diet and rebuild my flora, then I'll try it again.  Dr. D's post does say that it takes good compliance at the same time as the intrinsa, so maybe that's the problem.

I'm taking it Melissa, but not at the recommended dosage.  I've started off with just 2 caps in the morning on an empty stomach.  (Along with other things I'm taking on an empty stomach.) At that dosage, I'm not experiencing what you are.  When I kick it up to the recommended dose, maybe that will change.

Quoted from ironwood55

I believe I can see some improvement in my fingerprint lines after being on the protocols for about 6 weeks.

I wish I had saved an ink copy of my lines for reference. I think they are not as deep as they were, but that may just be a mental quirk. They are still as numerous. My lines were/are pretty bad, there was no need to 'ink up' to see them.

Quoted from Alan_Goldenberg

I think they are not as deep as they were, but that may just be a mental quirk. They are still as numerous. My lines were/are pretty bad, there was no need to 'ink up' to see them.

I agree. I am not bothering with fingerprinting I can clearly see all the lines.

When I started I picked a line to watch on my RH index finger. That line was very clear and obvious in the beginning. It is very faint and almost gone now. Then I started watching another deep line on the same finger and it has improved substantially and is starting to get faint. I still have lots lines on that finger and all the other fingers.

I also have a lot of vertical lines on the next segment of my fingers and even some in the last finger segment before the palm. I am assuming those are related to gut integrity too. Does anyone else have these lines?

Quoted Text

I also have a lot of vertical lines on the next segment of my fingers and even some in the last finger segment before the palm.

I don't have a lot of broken lines in the prints.  Maybe a total of ten all together, with three or four being really noticable.  I do notice a ton of these vertical lines on both hands with the ones on my right hand (I'm 90% left dominant) being more noticable.

Yes, I have lines on all my fingers, all the way down to the palms....I feel like they are the hands of a 70 year old
person....I never realized it until this fingerprinting fiasco for the job.  Now maybe it was a blessing in disguise.  
I have been told that I had candida, ibs, thyroid problems over the years.  What if it all was this leaky gut/ gluten
problem.  I have always eaten wheat, drank coffee, etc....I am trying to get serious with the btd.  I have been very
good about avoiding wheat and gluten, but other avoids like coffee, I have continued to drink.  I want to give this
diet the chance to heal things.....I am thankful for this forum and website.....thanks for the about the intestinal protocols and how to take the intrinsia.  Should be interesting to say the least.  

Quoted from ironwood55

I also have a lot of vertical lines on the next segment of my fingers and even some in the last finger segment before the palm. I am assuming those are related to gut integrity too. Does anyone else have these lines?

Unfortunately. I even have lines on my palms......

I first noticed lines on the segments next to the palms a couple years ago. Since then they moved up the fingers and thumbs, then the other way onto the palms. Some of the lines on my fingerprints seem related to or extensions of the other lines, quite a few are 'random'.

Much of the depth is relative to how much water is in my hands. When active, walking, in the shower or out on a hot day many of the lines are very faint as my skin is 'full'. At some other times they look like grooves. The pinkies seem to be more severe than the first fingers, that is one area of improvement. They used to all be about the same. Where the first and middle fingers have shown some improvement, the ring less and the pinkie none apparant (regarding second and third unit grooves, not the fingertips.)

Quoted from Alan_Goldenberg

Unfortunately. I even have lines on my palms......

Same here.

Diet, history of crime, etc.  I wonder how many who've been suspected of trying to alter their fingerprints simply have a dietary/health problem?  The depth of the ridges (not the lines) is a health indicator.  When I do a search on google for lines in fingerprints, it seems to be age related and such.  

From:
http://www.fprints.nwlean.net/w.htm

Quoted Text

White Lines
Creases which are not formed with other friction ridge detail.   Usually associated with age.  According to David Ashbaugh's book  "Quantitative-Qualitative Friction Ridge Analysis", white lines  disrupts the stratum corneum (horny layer) of the epidermis.   These creases do have ridge detail with-in the crease.  They are  usually permanent but do have the ability to shrink and grow.   Also known as tension creases.

Crease
A line or linear depression; grooves at the joints of the phalanges, at the
junction of the digits and across the palmar and plantar surfaces that accommodate
flexion.
SWGFAST, Glossary - Consolidated 09-09-03 ver. 1.0
http://www.swgfast.org/Glossary_Consolidated_ver_1.pdf

Two types of creases: Flexion creases disrupt the basal layer of the epidermis
and have no ridge detail within the crease.   White lines (or tension creases)
disrupt the stratum corneum or horny layer of the epidermis and do have ridge
detail with in the crease.  

Tension Crease
"Usually in crisscrossing patterns or at right angles to the ridges.   These secondary creases are known as tension creases and are not normally  found on the hands at birth. " Scott's Fingerprint Mechanics.  By Robert Olsen

Flexion Crease
Creases that are formed during friction ridge formation, completely lacking  of any ridge detail.  Flexion creases are unique and permanent.

Palm reading can be quite complex from a scientific view point!

The lines that have no ridge detail in the groove are permanent.  But, the lines that do have ridge detail in them may "shrink and grow" (change with health/diet).  So, when looking for "white lines" in regards to gut integrity, you must look to see that they are the ones WITH ridge detail in the groove.

Intrinsia smells like buttered popcorn to me!  Anyone else?  I was wondering if sprinking the powder onto broken rice cakes would fit the popcorn bill?

Quoted from Vicki

Intrinsia smells like buttered popcorn to me!  Anyone else?  I was wondering if sprinking the powder onto broken rice cakes would fit the popcorn bill?

You can always experiment! Ghee smells like that to me.  It also smells a little burnt.

Some more data/observations to consider.

After taking my morning shower I was careful to observe changes in the various lines. While holding the warm, damp towel in my right hand I closely examined my left hand. (Don't let the right hand know what the left hand is doing-lol). Nearly all the lines were so faint as to be essentially not there, such as you might see on a 'normal person'. Most of the fingertip lines I would associate with gut problems were still there and unchanged. As a watched over a period of several minutes the other lines became deeper and more obvious until after about 5 minutes they were back to what I have been accustomed to seeing. At this point I took the towel out of my right hand and observed it. It looked the same as the left when first out of the shower. I watched the lines grow, then experimented by blowing softly on the hand. The lines reformed even more quickly that way, it was nearly instant.

So, I don't have a problem anywhere with wrinkles or so forth. The issue is unique to the insides of my hands as far as I can tell.

Other comments, ideas, reactions?

Lloyd, the lines you were seeing were changing as you watched only because your skin was going back to normal after being engorged with water from the shower.  The lines that change due to health/diet reasons will change very slowly (weeks, months, years).

You may want to start to ask people if you can see their fingerpads  Look at young ones and old ones and such...to get a feel for what they look like.

If we eat ghee do we need to take intrinsa as well?

Quoted from lkpetrolino

If we eat ghee do we need to take intrinsa as well?

I remember a post in the archives, about a poster who went to see Dr. D for their leaky gut symptoms/other health issues.  She posted that Dr. D had her do 2 Tablespoons of ghee on an empty stomach. I think it was twice a day, but not positive about that.

So, if you do ghee, then it needs to be on an empty stomach.

Interesting with no food at all while eating this?  Does anyone know more about this

Quoted from lkpetrolino

Interesting with no food at all while eating this?  Does anyone know more about this

Since the poster said they were a patient of Dr. D, then it appears that Dr. D recommended this in his practice. I think it's one of the reasons he developed the product Intrinsa.

I've seen another post recently on this forum, somewheres, the poster was seeing an Ayruvedic (sp?) doctor, maybe while they were in India, I can't remember.  It's here somewhere.  The poster indicated that before she came to her appointment, or right when she came to the appointment, the doctor had her drink 1/4 cup of ghee.

Quoted from Vicki

Lloyd, the lines you were seeing were changing as you watched only because your skin was going back to normal after being engorged with water from the shower.  The lines that change due to health/diet reasons will change very slowly (weeks, months, years)

You may have missed it in my post, I did say:

Quoted from Lloyd

Most of the fingertip lines I would associate with gut problems were still there and unchanged.

In addition there are no other obvious skin/age problems. No wrinkles. I don't think it's as simple as an 'age problem'.

If it was engorgement from shower water the effect would not have gone away so quickly. I'm sure there was some swelling -- I'm also sure it was internal and more likely triggered from heat. Possibly breathing the steam, bit of a stretch.

Remember how if you stayed in the tub too long your fingers would turn into 'prunes'? This is the opposite effect.

I will try other experiments.

Lloyd,

There are two types of creases.  I think it is hard for the untrained eye to figure out the difference.  I'll have to do new scans of my fingerprints to see if I can get the detail from within the line.  Do my lines have ridge detail in them or not?  I never said it was simple!  

Here is Melissa's blog on fingerprints:  http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/4/archives/00000199.htm

I've also looked at the soles of my feet and find no trace of lines.

There may well be something to what you say, consider me a skeptic. My eyes are trained for detail, just not this particular detail. I also have jeweler's loops if needed.

Quoted from Vicki

Here is Melissa's blog on fingerprints:  http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/4/archives/00000199.htm

After reading this I still believe most of the lines on my fingertips are gut related, this has not changed my understanding. On the plus side I'm clearly not celiac, though I realize that was not the subject of interest in the blog.

Let me clarify some more just so that there is no misunderstanding. While my diet has been better or worse through the years (mostly worse) the changes starting about two years ago are highly indicitive of lectin and other damage rather than gluten problems. At about this time in 2004 I weighed 220 and was healthy in most respects. I certainly felt good. At that point I started eating lentils 5-6 times a week most weeks. I started drinking milk again and used whey protien powder. I started eating corn chips again. I had a love affair with avacado. For some reason I decided cucumber was something to eat frequently and in volume with salad - you can guess what was in the dressing! Last August it got even worse as I started eating various breakfast cereals and availed myself of free sandwiches, hotdogs, complientary meals full of avoids and more Hamburger Helper than I had had in my entire previous life combined. My weight balooned to 248 even though I was getting more excercise. There were physical indications/symptoms that developed which all put together indicated gut permeability to a strong confidence level.

Once I started the BTD there was an immediate and strong improvement even though I was still getting corn and wheat avoids from chinese food twice a week. I even mistakenly used barley a few times during that period. If gluten was the primary issue I may have had a different experience.

There is really no reason to consider celiac at this point. You may also want to look at my progress thread here. I have recently updated it.

Lloyd, I'd definitely continuing avoiding avoids to improve your situation but if you ever get "stuck" consider testing for celiac.  

I believe that certain people at "at risk" of developing celiac disease at any point in their life.  Gluten is in manna bread, ezekiel bread, rye and kamut on the O non-secretor list.  Add in spelt for O secretors.  But it is also hidden everywhere else, too!  

I agree with Vicki as to the probability of anyone with gut integrity problems being very liable to develop celiac. You could test your gluten sensitivity by simply going GF for 3-4 weeks then gorging on gluten. No lab tests needed! Food intolerances are very hard to determine unless one does elimination/reintroduction testing.

what will happen if you are gluten insensitive....I mean if you try the above experiment?

Janey, I haven't been tested for gluten sensitivity, but I believe that I probably have it.  I cannot eat kamut, get
very loose stools from it. I have reactions to oats, barley, most wheat forms, etc.  But I think you would have some kind of upsetting symptoms if you were gluten sensitive
and tried the above experiment.  I seem to get very tired after eating wheat if I have avoided it for a good period
of time.  Bloating, gas, fatigue, the symptoms can vary, but you would know....I am also short of stature, which I learned can be from gluten sensitivity.  There are 2 books that I like to refer to on this besides btd.  "Dangerous Grains" by Braly and "Going Against the Grain" by Melissa Diane Smith.  Gluten can really disrupt your ability to
absorb nutrients if it is the problem, causing so many different problems.  I find avoiding it really seems to keep
my body happier.  Hope this helps.

Quoted from Vicki

Lloyd, I'd definitely continuing avoiding avoids to improve your situation but if you ever get "stuck" consider testing for celiac.  

I tested again for candida today. I have no candida issues. The little grain I've been eating is rice or quinoa. If I get 'stuck', testing will be the last thing on my mind.

Quoted from Vicki

I believe that certain people at "at risk" of developing celiac disease at any point in their life.  Gluten is in manna bread, ezekiel bread, rye and kamut on the O non-secretor list.  Add in spelt for O secretors.  But it is also hidden everywhere else, too!  

I'm sure your advice has general merit. You'll forgive me for not being concerned at this point in time.

On another note I have more 'data' on the lines. Having observed my hands closely at numerous points during the day, I see the lines getting better and worse with no easily discernable cause.

Absorbing bath water seems to be a non-issue. I believe warmth and humidity may have an effect. Eating sometimes seems to make them worse. It all seems to be internal reactions to enviornment, stressors and current state regarding imbalances and normal biological functions.

It would not surprise me to learn that I need a little more of some nutrient or something just as simple. Most of the lines at their best nearly dissappear at times during the day. The lines at the fingerprint area are the only ones that do not vary through the course of the day.

I will continue to observe and possibly experiment. Stay tuned.

MoDon, are you keeping up with this? Your abservations?

I beleive, the lines in question won't change readily with humidity/dehydration.  Also, "white lines" are what you see when you do your fingerprints on paper rather than from observing your fingers.

When I explored the fingerprint idea in depth one year ago, I noted that it would take quite a bit of  hands-on training to truly identify fingerprint type (some are very tricky and easily mistaken for another), white lines and the like.

I explored the fingerprints of all willing family members.  

Quoted from Alan_Goldenberg

MoDon, are you keeping up with this? Your abservations?

Yes, I have been following the thread.

I definitely think the lines I easily see on my fingers are related to the gut integrity issue Dr. D. has informed us about. I have lots of these lines and do not need to fingerprint or use a magnifying glass to see them. My past medical treatment and health history is consistent with poor gut health.

The lines are slowly improving using appropriate protocols, butyrate, ghee, glutamine, colostrum, NAG, Larch, FOS, probiotics, etc. I am really eating a lot more ghee. I am currently waiting for an order of 1000 grams of glutamine to arrive so I can continue with occasional larger doses particularly on the same 2 days a week that I use a larger dose of colostrum.

Yes, I think the line definition can vary a little bit throughout the day. I have not concerned myself with why. I just don't think it is significant.

I do not think I am celiac. I eat very few grains and have gone extended periods without eating any and I have no problems when I reintroduce them. I did have sinus problems with grains back when I had a leaky gut problem, which was resolved about 2 years ago. It would be interesting to get tested for celiac, but right now it is not a priority.

I feel the same way about celiac testing.  It is not necessary if avoiding grains/following the btd recommendations
for grains is helping.  I was interested in hearing what protocols items are also helping.  One of my sons uses glutamine to help after weight lifting, seems I should get some for us to share....

The applicable statistic is that 40% of adults w/celiac have no symptoms of celiac disease.

I think the poster was talking about a retreat in India she visited once.

an Ayurveda camp or spa or something to that effect!  )

Quoted from Vicki

The applicable statistic is that 40% of adults w/celiac have no symptoms of celiac disease.

It's nice to throw out numbers, it's better to quote the source so we can all verify the methods and context. Those numbers may be correct. It is more likely that they are influenced by the results that are desired by the people that published the numbers. Without being able to verify this, I have no real clue. One possibility is that many of the people simply discount the symptoms they have, or feel that they are too mild to apply. If this is not taken into in the study it will cause a significant change in the results.

That's why polls are aften suspect. The question can be more important than the answer.

I appreciate your concerns and that you want the information out. For myself, I have issues with what has been presented either from a verification standpoint or from a simple smell test. For your information to be of value to me I need web links or a copy of the published literature. Your SWGFAST relates to fingerprint reading rather than medical application. Those definitions are not strictly valuable to us as they are not used in a medical context except as generalities that have limited value. And so on.

There is nothing more I can offer.  You can replicate the research I've done.  I've never met a fingerprint expert and have no way to contact one that I know of.

Lines that change throughout the day are suspect to me in regards to their health/diet value.

If you are interested in celiac, and stats, etc. there are plenty of web sites!

Good luck in your health pursuits as that's what it is all about!

Quoted from Vicki

40% of adults have no symptoms of celiac disease.  Have you done the stool test for celiac?  .

Is this stool test something that must be done at a lab? If so, do you have any idea of cost if insurance doesn't cover? I am seriously concerned that my granddaughter is celiac but my daughter won't get her tested as her DR says she has no symptoms. They must BOTH be blind, as she has 4 or 5 symptoms of celiac. Just breaks my heart. Worse  actually, I know the "consequences" of leaving celiac left untreated. I've sent my daughter the info, but like a lot of people, she thinks only the DR's know what they're talking about.  

Tom Greenfield's piece on atypical celiac disease:  http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/24/archives/00000036.htm

Italybound, perhaps you can provide literature explaining that many people do not have "symptoms" of celiac diseases.  Being short,  having anemia, etc. are all clues to possible celiac disease.

Many doctors will be able to order a stool test which would be covered by insurance.  

I suspect I may be one of the atypical celiacs!  But, alas, I do not have the funds to test.  

Here are the prices from EnteroLabs.

A) Gluten Sensitivity Stool and Gene Panel Complete *Best test/best value     Antigliadin, anti-tissue transglutaminase, malabsorption test, gene test, and free milk sensitivity test     $369

B) Gluten sensitivity Stool Panel Complete     Antigliadin antibody, anti-tissue transglutaminase, malabsorption test     $249

C) Egg, Yeast, and Soy Food Sensitivity Stool Panel     Test for sensitivity to egg, yeast and soy     $199

Gluten Sensitivity Stool Test     Fecal Antigliadin IgA antibody     $99

Cow's Milk Protein Sensitivity Stool Test     Test for sensitivity to milk protein casein     $99

Intestinal Malabsorption Stool Test     Quantitative Fecal Fat Microscopy Test     $99

Acute/Chronic Colitis Stool Test     Tests for protein called lactoferrin released from neutrophils in the colon     $49

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test     HLA-DQ gene test for propensity of developing gluten sensitivity     $149

I would love to have EnteroLabs Panel A and C done and just see what they show, but getting all of that done is a lot of money to spend.

Plus based on my health profile, symptoms, and other test results I don't believe this path of testing is my best use of testing $$$ (that I don't really have) and time. However, after I have checked out a couple of things, if they come back negative, or if my fingerprint lines stop improving I may come back to this and give it more consideration.

Quoted from ironwood55

I would love to have EnteroLabs Panel A and C done and just see what they show, but getting all of that done is a lot of money to spend.

Plus based on my health profile, symptoms, and other test results I don't believe this path of testing is my best use of testing $$$ (that I don't really have) and time.

Ditto, sort of. I have even less reason to test (probably). Does not mean I don't have it or can't get it. It does mean the path I've chosen is more sensible.

Here's some interesting links: FDA and Family Practice

Haven't gone through them but they seem to have quite a bit of info.

Lloyd,

Dr. D'Adamo talks about the white lines quite a bit about 3/4th of the way through this interview:

http://www.dadamo.com/media/radiodocs2.htm

Quoted from Vicki

Lloyd,

Dr. D'Adamo talks about the white lines quite a bit about 3/4th of the way through this interview:

http://www.dadamo.com/media/radiodocs2.htm

Thanks. I will get to it eventually.

Over the past days my non-fingertip lines have continued to improve noticably. It may be coincidence that I noticed that variability in the lines at that particular time. During this same time period I have also noticed my systolic reading has dopped about 8-10 points (this is good).

My conclusion is that the line changes probably are health related. You may call them age lines if you wish, do remember that aging is just another variation of failing health (that is generic rather than specific symptom).

I will be interested to hear what is in the interview and how it may be applied to my specific case.

Lloyd,

I am happy to know that there are two types of creases.  One type of crease occurs during the formation of the fingerprints.  This type of crease never goes away.  It has no ridge detail inside the crease.  The other type can be "healed" and does have ridges inside the depth of the crease.  

I can embellish on these with guesses that mother's diet and other environmental factors play into the permanent creases and therefore do play into current health.  But those creases are permanent never-the-less and cannot be corrected by healing the gut, avoiding gluten, etc.  

This is "too much" detail for most people, but not for me.  If I could find out  more details about this, and more experience in determining the two types, I'd be happier yet!

White lines increase with age because gut glycosylation decreases with age.

Quoted from Vicki

Lloyd,

I am happy to know that there are two types of creases.  One type of crease occurs during the formation of the fingerprints.  This type of crease never goes away.  It has no ridge detail inside the crease.  The other type can be "healed" and does have ridges inside the depth of the crease.  

I can embellish on these with guesses that mother's diet and other environmental factors play into the permanent creases and therefore do play into current health.  But those creases are permanent never-the-less and cannot be corrected by healing the gut, avoiding gluten, etc.  

This is the best response you have written in this thread. I hope you get to learn as much as you desire. I also hope you find the best way to use and communicate that knowledge.

Do you think that I could  use INTRINSA instead of CAPRYLIC ACID 350 mg 2v/day  ( recommended in Yeast Infection Protocol)?

Quoted from dancer

Do you think that I could  use INTRINSA instead of CAPRYLIC ACID 350 mg 2v/day  ( recommended in Yeast Infection Protocol)?

From my understanding, Intrinsa's purpose is to help heal gut villi.  Increase the integrity of the gut.  I've not seen anything that says Intrinsa will kill candida.  However, Intrinsa does have 335mg of caprylic acid in it's formula, which does kill candida.

I think Intrinsa could be a good adjunct to killing candida.  You could try it alone for a few months and see what results you get.

Quoted from dancer

Do you think that I could  use INTRINSA instead of CAPRYLIC ACID 350 mg 2v/day  ( recommended in Yeast Infection Protocol)?

dancer, do you feel the caprylic acid has been helping?  I started taking it last week and then got sidetracked about using it. I think I'm going to get back on it to see if it helps. I bought that because I noticed it was in all the candida fighting supplements at WF.  The c/a on it's own was much cheaper. Don't know if it wil be as effective tho.

Italybound , ciao!
I've never taken caprylic acid to fight my yeast infection and candida...!
So I was asking to myself if INTRINSA could be sufficient to improve my gut integrity  +  kill yeast, aspergyllus and candida in my system...

Quoted from dancer

Italybound , ciao! I've never taken caprylic acid to fight my yeast infection and candida...!So I was asking to myself if INTRINSA could be sufficient to improve my gut integrity  +  kill yeast, aspergyllus and candida in my system...

In this case, hope somebody gives us some good news!  

http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/BTstore/BTSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=NP054

read all about it and decide.....

I had good results with Caprylic acid for yeast infections, so I take a bottle with me whenever I travel (since that's when it flares up)

The Intrinsa is working better for me now that I've started taking it again, though at a lower dosage than before.  It always has seemed to help with my white lines, even when it was a bit too potent for me.

Melissa, how much caprylic acid did you take a day? The ones I have are Solaray brand. Ingred:
Calcium (as Caprylate)          162 mg
Magnesium ("   ")                    82 mg
Zinc            (  "  )                     7 mg
Caprylic acid                       2163 mg
          (from calcium, magnesium and zinc caprylates)

Yesterday's Ask Dr. D column answered my question about Intrinsa, I think:

Quoted Text

Ghee contains short chain fatty acids that really help energize the cells that line the colon, and in exchange, they will work better and interact more efficiently with the bacteria in the gut, further enhancing the breakdown of fiber, which in turn makes more short chain fatty acids, which energize the cells of the colon lining, which…

So, it would appear I needed a bit of that fiber effect

Oh, sorry I never answered the caprylic acid question, I just took the capsules according to the instructions on the bottle, I don't remember the dose, but I think it was Solaray.  Now I just take what's in Intrinsa.

Well, guys, I thought that the eczema and itchy rash I was experiencing was coming from the lemons I had been putting on my salad, but now I believe that I am having the reaction from the Intrinsa I have been taking for the last week or so.  It is the SAME reaction I get when I have tried to eat ghee or in the past, butter of any kind.  WHAT is going on?  Am I reacting to the butyric acid?  My hands are very rashy, my legs are itchy, my lips are peeling and cracked, and a certain other area (private) is becoming a bit itchy too now, JUST like when I have tried ghee.  

Oh my goodness, what is going on with me?  I don't understand!  Is this butyric acid derived from butter or am I just reacting to the acid itself?  I don't get it!  Help!  

AND, I just took another couple of them earlier tonight.  Ugh!  I knew something was wrong, but anyway, it has gotten WAY worse...exactly like when I've had butter or ghee.  I can't believe this...

Stop taking it and see if you get improvement.  For product support, call NAP at 877-ABO-TYPE  Here's a write up on the Intrinsa:  http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/nap/archives/00000026.htm

Tina,

I very much concur that this is an allergic reaction .... as such it is outside the normal processes written about for BTD (allergic-reaction is a different biological process).  The vast majority of allergies to milk are to milk-protein, which is why ghee is OK (for almost everyone).  In a very rare case (it seems you are one) a person is allergic to milk-fat.

So what to do ??????????????  A good homeopath or acupuncturist or specialist in TCM may assist.  Possibly an MSM cream might assist.  Several decades ago a friend had a allergic reaction and the hospital-MD gave him adrenalin (to speed things up-a-bit via quick turnover).  His wanting company for a walk at 2:00 a.m. was a bit much, though.

John

Oh my goodness, its so wierd to read this.  I went through two bottles of Intrinsia for my colitis - and I actaully thought it made it worse.  At first I thought it was some sort of cleansing reaction so I just kept taking it and kind of forgot the quality of my 'pre-Intrinsia bowel health' (If that makes any sense).

Anyways, I was kinda nervous to run out cause I figured it was doing something good, but when I did my colitis actaully improved a bit.

I actaully attributed this to the caprylic acid in the product as its something I was taking when my colitis flared up for the first time.  Maybe I'm just sensitive.

So...I've ordered a plain butyrate supplement from Nutricology (Just butrate from calcium and magnesium - no caprylic acid) so we'll see what happens.

In any event, take care of yourself - eczema like rashes are really a pain in the 'you know what'.  Maybe some quercetin?

Good grief.  Leave it to me to be a rare one-in-a-million case!  I'm not surprised.  Anyway, I of course stopped taking it this a.m. and the itching is milder already, though not gone of course.  It was take several days to come out of my system completely, like the ghee does.  BROTHER!  I want to say, "I give up!" but I don't of course.  It's just soooooooooo frustrating, this leaky gut thing!  

Well, I am going to TRY and take the recommended protocol of glutamine 200 mg and see what happens.  In the past, glutamine constipates me, but maybe in this smaller amount it won't.  I also received my Deflect O today.  Will this help me?  I sure hope I don't react to something in that too!!!  

What about chromium?  Does anyone take and use that?  Why can I not seem to process these fats?

Tina...as a nonnie, I too, think you are having a reaction to the Intrinsa.  Nice to hear that since you have stopped taking it the itching is already milder.   Although I don't have any reaction to ghee (thank goodness) I do have rash and itch symptoms when the dairy is entered into my body.   I am able to use Defect O so I hope you can too (it may help with getting rid of the Intrinsa) and that you find a solution to your colitis problem.  

Nice picture.

Debra  

For allergic reactions, I also use Dark's recommendation of Quercetin.  I'm never without it in the house!

I found this online on an IBS website.  I don't suffer from IBS now, but I used to.  I am wondering if this is my problem with fat.  Hmmm...also I do take Seacure, but I think I should up it to at least 9 or so a day, 3 before each meal.  I started l-glutamine today too.  I also realized that the reason I keep getting gassy when I eat the sardines is either the smoking process or most likely, the fat.  I had a feeling, but I know fat is good for me.  Somehow I am just not processing it...


"A subset of patients with IBS also suffer from fat malabsorption or fat intolerance. It is easy to avoid fat when you are cooking at home, but dining out makes it harder. I
have patients that curtail their social life because they are afraid they will wind up spending dessert time in the bathroom. For these folks, I often recommend Chitosan, a novel fiber supplement made from the exoskeletons of shellfish. Chitosan is able to bind dietary fat and take it out of the system. Of course, no one who is allergic to seafood should take this supplement."

Tina,

if you are up to a little experimenting ... try a little lecithin with meat/fat intake.  [Found out lately the some lecithin (soy granules)  on my hamburger meat tastes much like the cheese of a cheese-burger.]

John

I was actually thinking of that, but didn't know if soy would be good for me or not.  Gotta be so cautious you know!  What brand do you use?

For the present, it's the NOW brand ... GMO free .... difficult to find these days.  When I can afford it, I like the lecithin at Life Extension ... because it has one more 'phosphatide' than most other brands I've bought.  They also sell PS(phosphatidylserine) yet another (expensive) phosphatide that really helps brain processes especially memory. ... http://www.lef.org .  PS is sold separately from lecithin ........

John

Quoted from Tina

Well, guys, I thought that the eczema and itchy rash I was experiencing was coming from the lemons I had been putting on my salad, but now I believe that I am having the reaction from the Intrinsa I have been taking for the last week or so.  It is the SAME reaction I get when I have tried to eat ghee or in the past, butter of any kind.  WHAT is going on?  Am I reacting to the butyric acid?  My hands are very rashy, my legs are itchy, my lips are peeling and cracked, and a certain other area (private) is becoming a bit itchy too now, JUST like when I have tried ghee.  

Oh my goodness, what is going on with me?  I don't understand!  Is this butyric acid derived from butter or am I just reacting to the acid itself?  I don't get it!  Help!  

AND, I just took another couple of them earlier tonight.  Ugh!  I knew something was wrong, but anyway, it has gotten WAY worse...exactly like when I've had butter or ghee.  I can't believe this...

Hi Tina,

One of my patients, also an O nonnie had terrible bowelreactions to Intrinsa... Weeks of heavy painful diarrea... Exhausted.. Ordered her right away to stop Intrinsa.. She recovered.. I was kinda shocked about this and a bit upset that she waited so long to contact me...
I do not know what ingredient or combi of ingredients made her react like this.. I do not prescribe Intrinsa anymore.. Just the ghee, chlorella and colostrum to improve her overall and bowel health, in combi with her Ononnie diet..

Hope you will experience a speedy recovery  

Take care and always trust the reactions of your body...

I would really appreciate some kind of explanation from NAP or Peter about the possible reactions of Intrinsa in particular in O nonnies..

Cocky  

I took maybe 3 or 4 Intrinsas last year when I was having diarrhea IBS.  It made it a lot worse.  

I can eat ghee and take larch so I'm guessing it might have been the caprylic acid.  I'm not sure what that's made from.

I can take Intrinsia, but only for short duration.  When I feel that I am having intestinal problems, I'll take 1 Intrinsia 2 x day between meals for only 3 or 4 days and then stop.  It's the only way I can do it.

I also didn't do well with the intrinsa, so I'm taking a break from it.  Once I get my digestive system and immune system a bit healthier I'll try it again.  Getting to that point is tough though, with all my digestive intolerances and occasional travel or eating out.  I haven't tried plain butyrate before, though I feel fine with ghee, and I seem to do ok with caprylic acid on its own - though I never take it for more than a couple of days at a time as needed.  

I use Intrinsa in about 65% of the clinic patients and the complaints so far have only been about the price.

I took one capsule of Intrinsa and I stopped after one use.

An aside: another gmo source of lecithin made by Healthforce Nutritionals:
http://www.healthfoodemporium.com/prod_healthforce_nutritionals.php

Alia

Well, bowel-wise I did not experience any pain while taking it, only not as good of bm's as I normally have.  Yet, I did experience the same reaction from eating ghee, so I am assuming it has something to do with fat processing possibly.  Anyway, I am much better today, the rash between my fingers, on my hands, and the itching of my legs and torso is much better, less pronounced, and my lips are almost back to normal.  I noticed that my son was a bit itchy too, and I had given it to him as well for the last few days.  I noticed his lips a bright red yesterday too.  So, I stopped that this a.m.  

Been taking the tyrosine, glutamine, and Seacure and I think they are really helping me though.  I haven't had cravings hardly at all.  Oh, and I got some Deflect O and started that.  My appetite seems less with it.  

Dr. D, could it be the fat assimilation problem in some individuals causing this?  Candida issues too, maybe?  Like a BAD die off reaction!

Quoted from Tina

Dr. D, could it be the fat assimilation problem in some individuals causing this?  Candida issues too, maybe?  Like a BAD die off reaction!

Could be a Hexheimer type reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_Reaction

Didn't give my son the Intrinsa this a.m. but I noticed tonight that he has developed a rash on his legs as well, just like the one on my hands.  The calf and shins of his legs.  Red, itchy, eczema like rash.  His lips were red today too.  Guess it will have to wear off of his body as well...

NAP keeps a record of all problems with their products. I've asked them to let me know that the record for Intrinsa is so far. When I find out I'll post it back here.

This is what Jon Humberstone, our head of customer service replied:

Quoted Text

Other than comments about the smell, and a very few comments about  getting an upset stomach when taking it without food (this is a comment we get from certain sensitive people on any supplement,
really), we have had no other negative Intrinsa complaints that we are aware of.

Should we be calling NAP whenever we have a problem with their supplements?  I haven't  been doing it.  I just throw them out.

throw them out??
why not keep being compliant sticking to the plan and then trying again?

Quoted from lola

throw them out??
why not keep being compliant sticking to the plan and then trying again?

I don't do well with supplements that have herbs and food type things in them in general.  Live Cell was another big problem for me.  And I have never been able to eat any of the bars without problems.  Sometimes I retry things, but that's risky since I may react even more strongly the second or third times.  It's safer to just throw them away.  There are also Beneficial, even Super Beneficial foods, that I can't tolerate, no matter how compliant I am, which is about 99% for over ten years.
As we know from the BTD diet, one size doesn't fit all, sometimes even when it's BT specific.

Quoted from cindyt

Should we be calling NAP whenever we have a problem with their supplements?  I haven't  been doing it.  I just throw them out.

Well, yes. You should alert every manufacturer.

Quoted from cindyt

Should we be calling NAP whenever we have a problem with their supplements?  I haven't  been doing it.  I just throw them out.

Perhaps save them for a friend/family member/relative who may need it in the future.  

Also, your body dynamics may change in time, thus having a different reaction to certain supplements in the future.  

I believe most of the NAP supplements have a two year expiration date.

Alia