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Lloyd
Sunday, April 30, 2006, 4:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vicki
Here is Melissa's blog on fingerprints:  http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/4/archives/00000199.htm


After reading this I still believe most of the lines on my fingertips are gut related, this has not changed my understanding. On the plus side I'm clearly not celiac, though I realize that was not the subject of interest in the blog.


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Lloyd
Sunday, April 30, 2006, 6:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Let me clarify some more just so that there is no misunderstanding. While my diet has been better or worse through the years (mostly worse) the changes starting about two years ago are highly indicitive of lectin and other damage rather than gluten problems. At about this time in 2004 I weighed 220 and was healthy in most respects. I certainly felt good. At that point I started eating lentils 5-6 times a week most weeks. I started drinking milk again and used whey protien powder. I started eating corn chips again. I had a love affair with avacado. For some reason I decided cucumber was something to eat frequently and in volume with salad - you can guess what was in the dressing! Last August it got even worse as I started eating various breakfast cereals and availed myself of free sandwiches, hotdogs, complientary meals full of avoids and more Hamburger Helper than I had had in my entire previous life combined. My weight balooned to 248 even though I was getting more excercise. There were physical indications/symptoms that developed which all put together indicated gut permeability to a strong confidence level.

Once I started the BTD there was an immediate and strong improvement even though I was still getting corn and wheat avoids from chinese food twice a week. I even mistakenly used barley a few times during that period. If gluten was the primary issue I may have had a different experience.

There is really no reason to consider celiac at this point. You may also want to look at my progress thread here. I have recently updated it.
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Vicki
Sunday, April 30, 2006, 1:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lloyd, I'd definitely continuing avoiding avoids to improve your situation but if you ever get "stuck" consider testing for celiac.  

I believe that certain people at "at risk" of developing celiac disease at any point in their life.  Gluten is in manna bread, ezekiel bread, rye and kamut on the O non-secretor list.  Add in spelt for O secretors.  But it is also hidden everywhere else, too!  
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JK
Monday, May 1, 2006, 4:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I agree with Vicki as to the probability of anyone with gut integrity problems being very liable to develop celiac. You could test your gluten sensitivity by simply going GF for 3-4 weeks then gorging on gluten. No lab tests needed! Food intolerances are very hard to determine unless one does elimination/reintroduction testing.
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jayney-O
Monday, May 1, 2006, 5:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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what will happen if you are gluten insensitive....I mean if you try the above experiment?
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Paula 0+
Monday, May 1, 2006, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Janey, I haven't been tested for gluten sensitivity, but I believe that I probably have it.  I cannot eat kamut, get
very loose stools from it. I have reactions to oats, barley, most wheat forms, etc.  But I think you would have some kind of upsetting symptoms if you were gluten sensitive
and tried the above experiment.  I seem to get very tired after eating wheat if I have avoided it for a good period
of time.  Bloating, gas, fatigue, the symptoms can vary, but you would know....I am also short of stature, which I learned can be from gluten sensitivity.  There are 2 books that I like to refer to on this besides btd.  "Dangerous Grains" by Braly and "Going Against the Grain" by Melissa Diane Smith.  Gluten can really disrupt your ability to
absorb nutrients if it is the problem, causing so many different problems.  I find avoiding it really seems to keep
my body happier.  Hope this helps.
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Lloyd
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 8:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vicki
Lloyd, I'd definitely continuing avoiding avoids to improve your situation but if you ever get "stuck" consider testing for celiac.  


I tested again for candida today. I have no candida issues. The little grain I've been eating is rice or quinoa. If I get 'stuck', testing will be the last thing on my mind.

Quoted from Vicki

I believe that certain people at "at risk" of developing celiac disease at any point in their life.  Gluten is in manna bread, ezekiel bread, rye and kamut on the O non-secretor list.  Add in spelt for O secretors.  But it is also hidden everywhere else, too!  


I'm sure your advice has general merit. You'll forgive me for not being concerned at this point in time.

On another note I have more 'data' on the lines. Having observed my hands closely at numerous points during the day, I see the lines getting better and worse with no easily discernable cause.

Absorbing bath water seems to be a non-issue. I believe warmth and humidity may have an effect. Eating sometimes seems to make them worse. It all seems to be internal reactions to enviornment, stressors and current state regarding imbalances and normal biological functions.

It would not surprise me to learn that I need a little more of some nutrient or something just as simple. Most of the lines at their best nearly dissappear at times during the day. The lines at the fingerprint area are the only ones that do not vary through the course of the day.

I will continue to observe and possibly experiment. Stay tuned.

MoDon, are you keeping up with this? Your abservations?





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Vicki
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 12:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I beleive, the lines in question won't change readily with humidity/dehydration.  Also, "white lines" are what you see when you do your fingerprints on paper rather than from observing your fingers.

When I explored the fingerprint idea in depth one year ago, I noted that it would take quite a bit of  hands-on training to truly identify fingerprint type (some are very tricky and easily mistaken for another), white lines and the like.

I explored the fingerprints of all willing family members.  
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Don
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 7:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Alan_Goldenberg
MoDon, are you keeping up with this? Your abservations?

Yes, I have been following the thread.

I definitely think the lines I easily see on my fingers are related to the gut integrity issue Dr. D. has informed us about. I have lots of these lines and do not need to fingerprint or use a magnifying glass to see them. My past medical treatment and health history is consistent with poor gut health.

The lines are slowly improving using appropriate protocols, butyrate, ghee, glutamine, colostrum, NAG, Larch, FOS, probiotics, etc. I am really eating a lot more ghee. I am currently waiting for an order of 1000 grams of glutamine to arrive so I can continue with occasional larger doses particularly on the same 2 days a week that I use a larger dose of colostrum.

Yes, I think the line definition can vary a little bit throughout the day. I have not concerned myself with why. I just don't think it is significant.

I do not think I am celiac. I eat very few grains and have gone extended periods without eating any and I have no problems when I reintroduce them. I did have sinus problems with grains back when I had a leaky gut problem, which was resolved about 2 years ago. It would be interesting to get tested for celiac, but right now it is not a priority.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Paula 0+
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I feel the same way about celiac testing.  It is not necessary if avoiding grains/following the btd recommendations
for grains is helping.  I was interested in hearing what protocols items are also helping.  One of my sons uses glutamine to help after weight lifting, seems I should get some for us to share....
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Vicki
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 11:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The applicable statistic is that 40% of adults w/celiac have no symptoms of celiac disease.
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Lola
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 11:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think the poster was talking about a retreat in India she visited once.

an Ayurveda camp or spa or something to that effect!  )


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Lloyd
Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 11:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vicki
The applicable statistic is that 40% of adults w/celiac have no symptoms of celiac disease.


It's nice to throw out numbers, it's better to quote the source so we can all verify the methods and context. Those numbers may be correct. It is more likely that they are influenced by the results that are desired by the people that published the numbers. Without being able to verify this, I have no real clue. One possibility is that many of the people simply discount the symptoms they have, or feel that they are too mild to apply. If this is not taken into in the study it will cause a significant change in the results.

That's why polls are aften suspect. The question can be more important than the answer.

I appreciate your concerns and that you want the information out. For myself, I have issues with what has been presented either from a verification standpoint or from a simple smell test. For your information to be of value to me I need web links or a copy of the published literature. Your SWGFAST relates to fingerprint reading rather than medical application. Those definitions are not strictly valuable to us as they are not used in a medical context except as generalities that have limited value. And so on.
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Vicki
Thursday, May 4, 2006, 1:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There is nothing more I can offer.  You can replicate the research I've done.  I've never met a fingerprint expert and have no way to contact one that I know of.

Lines that change throughout the day are suspect to me in regards to their health/diet value.

If you are interested in celiac, and stats, etc. there are plenty of web sites!

Good luck in your health pursuits as that's what it is all about!
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italybound
Thursday, May 4, 2006, 2:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vicki
40% of adults have no symptoms of celiac disease.  Have you done the stool test for celiac?  .


Is this stool test something that must be done at a lab? If so, do you have any idea of cost if insurance doesn't cover? I am seriously concerned that my granddaughter is celiac but my daughter won't get her tested as her DR says she has no symptoms. They must BOTH be blind, as she has 4 or 5 symptoms of celiac. Just breaks my heart. Worse  actually, I know the "consequences" of leaving celiac left untreated. I've sent my daughter the info, but like a lot of people, she thinks only the DR's know what they're talking about.  



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Vicki
Thursday, May 4, 2006, 2:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Tom Greenfield's piece on atypical celiac disease:  http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/24/archives/00000036.htm

Italybound, perhaps you can provide literature explaining that many people do not have "symptoms" of celiac diseases.  Being short,  having anemia, etc. are all clues to possible celiac disease.

Many doctors will be able to order a stool test which would be covered by insurance.  

I suspect I may be one of the atypical celiacs!  But, alas, I do not have the funds to test.  
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Don
Thursday, May 4, 2006, 3:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here are the prices from EnteroLabs.

A) Gluten Sensitivity Stool and Gene Panel Complete *Best test/best value     Antigliadin, anti-tissue transglutaminase, malabsorption test, gene test, and free milk sensitivity test     $369

B) Gluten sensitivity Stool Panel Complete     Antigliadin antibody, anti-tissue transglutaminase, malabsorption test     $249

C) Egg, Yeast, and Soy Food Sensitivity Stool Panel     Test for sensitivity to egg, yeast and soy     $199

Gluten Sensitivity Stool Test     Fecal Antigliadin IgA antibody     $99

Cow's Milk Protein Sensitivity Stool Test     Test for sensitivity to milk protein casein     $99

Intestinal Malabsorption Stool Test     Quantitative Fecal Fat Microscopy Test     $99

Acute/Chronic Colitis Stool Test     Tests for protein called lactoferrin released from neutrophils in the colon     $49

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test     HLA-DQ gene test for propensity of developing gluten sensitivity     $149


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Don
Thursday, May 4, 2006, 4:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would love to have EnteroLabs Panel A and C done and just see what they show, but getting all of that done is a lot of money to spend.

Plus based on my health profile, symptoms, and other test results I don't believe this path of testing is my best use of testing $$$ (that I don't really have) and time. However, after I have checked out a couple of things, if they come back negative, or if my fingerprint lines stop improving I may come back to this and give it more consideration.


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Lloyd
Thursday, May 4, 2006, 4:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55
I would love to have EnteroLabs Panel A and C done and just see what they show, but getting all of that done is a lot of money to spend.

Plus based on my health profile, symptoms, and other test results I don't believe this path of testing is my best use of testing $$$ (that I don't really have) and time.


Ditto, sort of. I have even less reason to test (probably). Does not mean I don't have it or can't get it. It does mean the path I've chosen is more sensible.

Here's some interesting links: FDA and Family Practice

Haven't gone through them but they seem to have quite a bit of info.
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Vicki
Sunday, May 7, 2006, 8:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lloyd,

Dr. D'Adamo talks about the white lines quite a bit about 3/4th of the way through this interview:

http://www.dadamo.com/media/radiodocs2.htm
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Lloyd
Sunday, May 7, 2006, 9:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vicki
Lloyd,

Dr. D'Adamo talks about the white lines quite a bit about 3/4th of the way through this interview:

http://www.dadamo.com/media/radiodocs2.htm


Thanks. I will get to it eventually.

Over the past days my non-fingertip lines have continued to improve noticably. It may be coincidence that I noticed that variability in the lines at that particular time. During this same time period I have also noticed my systolic reading has dopped about 8-10 points (this is good).

My conclusion is that the line changes probably are health related. You may call them age lines if you wish, do remember that aging is just another variation of failing health (that is generic rather than specific symptom).

I will be interested to hear what is in the interview and how it may be applied to my specific case.
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Vicki
Monday, May 8, 2006, 11:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lloyd,

I am happy to know that there are two types of creases.  One type of crease occurs during the formation of the fingerprints.  This type of crease never goes away.  It has no ridge detail inside the crease.  The other type can be "healed" and does have ridges inside the depth of the crease.  

I can embellish on these with guesses that mother's diet and other environmental factors play into the permanent creases and therefore do play into current health.  But those creases are permanent never-the-less and cannot be corrected by healing the gut, avoiding gluten, etc.  

This is "too much" detail for most people, but not for me.  If I could find out  more details about this, and more experience in determining the two types, I'd be happier yet!
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Dr. D
Monday, May 8, 2006, 12:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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White lines increase with age because gut glycosylation decreases with age.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Lloyd
Monday, May 8, 2006, 11:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Vicki
Lloyd,

I am happy to know that there are two types of creases.  One type of crease occurs during the formation of the fingerprints.  This type of crease never goes away.  It has no ridge detail inside the crease.  The other type can be "healed" and does have ridges inside the depth of the crease.  

I can embellish on these with guesses that mother's diet and other environmental factors play into the permanent creases and therefore do play into current health.  But those creases are permanent never-the-less and cannot be corrected by healing the gut, avoiding gluten, etc.  




This is the best response you have written in this thread. I hope you get to learn as much as you desire. I also hope you find the best way to use and communicate that knowledge.
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dancer
Wednesday, May 10, 2006, 12:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Do you think that I could  use INTRINSA instead of CAPRYLIC ACID 350 mg 2v/day  ( recommended in Yeast Infection Protocol)?


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