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Laura P
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from connect14
Hi Laura,

Thanks for the reply.  Is this specifically just to train my body to burn fat for fuel?    If so, then I can see doing it for a brief time, but in general, I do believe in eating carbs and a limited amount of grains since I am a Type A....as you know.

I don't feel like my carb intake is too much for daily life.  
If, however, you are saying that it is merely too high in terms of this one specific goal of retraining my body, then perhaps I might try it.



Yes that is exactly what I'm saying-- 2 weeks, I'm not asking forever, I'm saying give it two weeks, three would be best but two is all I'm asking for, then go SLOW adding carbs back in, this way you can both retrain your body to use fat as fueel and determine your carb tolerance level (aka- the level of carbs your system REALLY needs to function best)

good sup suggestion by John too



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


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Connect
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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So no nuts during these two weeks either?  

I only eat walnuts and peanuts.  By my own analysis, I was under the impression that these were not high carb, but primarily protein.


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Laura P
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 8:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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no not EXTREMELY high carb, but the fact that you are constantly craving them tells me that your body is trying to get you to eat starches to fuel itself and you are supstituting nuts instead because mentally you are saying NO, they aren't so incredibly high carb, but you and your body by now are using them as a substitute- this is not good because it ends up leaving you eating more of something your body doesn't really want but is taking in place of something else.  This could lead to abuse and I have a feeling that keeping them in will make it alot harder for you to eliminate starches, their texture and taste is too 'carby'



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Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Connect
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 8:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Are all veggies ok?  

Are you suggesting that after 2 to 3 weeks of eating this way, my body will "know" which foods it needs?  As such, abnormal cravings for nuts, etc... will disappear?  I'm not sure I understand your last comment.


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Laura P
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 8:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I'm saying that your body will switch from carb burning system to a fat burning system and you will learn your true carb tolerance level so you will be able to feed your body the amount of carbs and fat it needs easier.  Right now I think you are using nuts because your body wants carbs but mentally your say no so you substitute nuts which are carby.  If you train your body to burn fat for fuel you won't need as many carbs.  Iit is very important that you STOP the anerobic exercise though, none during these two weeks and none until you find your optimal level of CT.  Anerobic burns and higher amount of carbs and will screw you up and make you go crazy on a low carb plan.  

Non-starchy veggies only (no winter squash, peas, carrots should be fine)



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Connect
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 9:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I'm not really doing any anaerobic exercise right now.  I am swimming and running and circuit training.  With the circuit training, I run for half an hour and then strength train for another 45 minutes, but my heartrate is staying up.  It's very much cardio.  What anaerobic activity are you thinking of?  

Also, the brain uses glucose as its fuel.  So, if I understand correctly, you are saying that once my body switches to a fat burning system, it will only require carbs necessary for bodily processes (such as glucose for the brain) as opposed to requiring carbs for energy?


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Laura P
Friday, April 14, 2006, 1:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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How do you know it is not anaerobic?  Do you use a heart rate monitor?



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


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resting
Friday, April 14, 2006, 2:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi connect,

some believe that glucose is the sole energy food for the brain ... but it burns glutamine for this reason and burning of fats produces ketones - also done by the brain ... it may not be as easy to burn as glucose, but burning fats will not deprive the brain of energy.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Connect
Friday, April 14, 2006, 2:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Quoted from lkpetrolino
How do you know it is not anaerobic?  Do you use a heart rate monitor?


Well, because I'm doing all cardio.  I keep my heartrate around 140.  I suppose when I was doing sprints, that was anaerobic, but I haven't been sprinting lately.  Only distance running and swimming.

I was just reading about Philip Meffatone though, and he says that any type of weight lifting is anaerobic and should be avoided during the "training period."  As lifting creates stress, which leads to carb burn.  

So for two weeks, perhaps I should only run and swim.  


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Connect
Friday, April 14, 2006, 2:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi connect,

some believe that glucose is the sole energy food for the brain ... but it burns glutamine for this reason and burning of fats produces ketones - also done by the brain ... it may not be as easy to burn as glucose, but burning fats will not deprive the brain of energy.

John


Very interesting John.  I didn't know that.  
In your opinion John, how much of the diet do you believe carbs should consist of?  


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Lloyd
Friday, April 14, 2006, 3:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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People that follow Atkins keep their carbs at 20 gms or less for the first two weeks. Some people will get headaches when they first go into ketosis (which you will do if you limit you carbs to burn fat). My own experience with Atkins (lost 45 lbs) showed that I could essentially go carb-free for days at a time (10 gms or less) with no ill effect, lots of staminia, and acute mental function. Wish I'd avoided the pork rinds and excess fat though. I never went longer than that only because it's tough to limit your carbs, not because I felt poorly.

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Friday, April 14, 2006, 3:19am
clarification
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Connect
Friday, April 14, 2006, 3:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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The more I study and the more I learn, the less essential carbs seem.  Other than garnering the benefits of the nutrients in such things as fruit, it wouldn't seem that there is not much purpose in them.  



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Laura P
Friday, April 14, 2006, 3:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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only nutrient your body doesn't really need



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Connect
Friday, April 14, 2006, 3:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Carbs aside, though....there are certainly nutritional benefits to consuming fruit.  I can see the uselessness of grains, but there are many benefits to eating fruit.

Foods that function as both carbs and protein (yogurt, beans, nuts) are a little more unclear.


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Lloyd
Friday, April 14, 2006, 4:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from lkpetrolino
only nutrient your body doesn't really need


Unless you want to include the benefits of fiber. You might argue that fiber is not a nutrient, nonetheless it is needed. In addition plant sterols and other micronutrients are either only available with the carbohydrate package, or hard to get otherwise. Imagine all the medicinal compounds we source from plants. So to say the body doesn't really need carbohydrates is a bit occluded. From a gross macro standpoint we can survive without the carbs for a while, we cannot survive without the things that are packaged with them.

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Friday, April 14, 2006, 4:42am
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Drea
Friday, April 14, 2006, 4:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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connect14, keep us posted on your progress. I am also an A secretor, but have too much on my plate right now to contemplate another new guideline.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Friday, April 14, 2006, 5:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Alan_Goldenberg


Unless you want to include the benefits of fiber. You might argue that fiber is not a nutrient, nonetheless it is needed. In addition plant sterols and other micronutrients are either only available with the carbohydrate package, or hard to get otherwise. Imagine all the medicinal compounds we source from plants. So to say the body doesn't really need carbohydrates is a bit occluded. From a gross macro standpoint we can survive without the carbs for a while, we cannot survive without the things that are packaged with them.


This is an excellent point Lloyd.  Thanks for sharing.  There are many benefits to the carbs in fruits and veggies.  I'm still out on how I feel about grains.  My view seems to be changing somewhat.

Drea:  I love your quote!


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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Friday, April 14, 2006, 5:34am
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Don
Friday, April 14, 2006, 5:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Connect14,
I agree in general one should try to train their body to burn fat instead of carbs, but I suspect that it is much more important for a type O versus a type A, since a type O diet should be lower in carbs than a type A diet.

Just realize what Laura is suggesting should only be for a short period of time. As a type A you should not use a high protein or high fat diet long term so more of your energy will come from carbs.

Here are some quotes from Dr. D from the old message board that might provide some useful information concerning these topics. I included the link with each quote because in some cases you might want to read each thread, or at least the message Dr. D was responding to, to put Dr. D's responses in complete context.
Quoted from Dr. D
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert1/config.pl?read=88
I don't think that employing the zone principles to their fullest degree is going to work well if you are type A. They are in their fullest form, best suited to type O. It is a large amount of protein and as a type A you will eventually pay the price in terms of degenerative diseases which result from the fact that type A's generally lack stomach acid and don't break concentrated proteins down effectively. Without the stomach acid levels of a type O, a lot of this animal protein is going to be converted to toxins, which eventually are going to have their effect on the immune system, liver and kidneys.

On the other hand moderate amounts of, fish and poultry can be used selectively and the remainder filled in with other vegetable sources of protein, such as tofu.


http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert1/config.pl?read=110
2. Type A's can use fish or what not in larger amounts as per Dr. Sear's recommendations with regard to activity levels, but not to the degree that a type O or B should.

4. Its possible, but I don't advocate a total zone approach if you are type A or AB. It can be done, but it will serve no real purpose, other than perhaps the short term sense of well-being that would result from the higher protein levels. And the avoidance of simple sugars are starches. The price to be paid down the line is kidney, liver, and cardiovascular trouble. To give you an idea of what we are talking about, some type A's require hydrochloric acid and enzyme suplementation just to do the type A diet!


http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive6/config.pl?read=21434
If we just go back to looking at the particular diet (in this case the type A diet) and applying prior generalized notions about what foods are good or bad for a particular condition, we are not doing the blood type diet. By cutting out grains like wheat, or vegetables like tomatoes, the type A can very effectively control and reverse hypoglycemia, but as anyone will tell you, cutting out wheat is not easy. Yet it is the best way I know of to gradually rehabilitate the intercellular processes which regulate the conversion of glucose to stored glycerols and triglycerides. Proof of this is abundant in the literature; go to MEDLINE and key in 'wheat germ agglutinin' and 'insulin' and see what you get back.

If on the other hand, a dysinsulinic type A decides to switch to a high animal protein diet, they may very well feel a temporary benefit with regard to the subjective feelings, but they are still way wide of being normalized. They will feel better as long as they eat this way, much like the way that you can heat a house with a faulty furnace by constantly elevating the thermostat. Something will give eventually, typically in female type As, the liver, gall bladder, thyroid, bones and reproductive systems.

I would also caution against trying to find a subtype which will allow you to eat such a high protein diet; the long term results will be quite dire. On the other hand, fish and poultry are abundant enough in the A diet to insure that adequate protein needs are met.

Many type A's have high cortisol levels, especially when stressed or sleeping poorly. Cortisol will tend to aggravate dysinsulinism. Try having a few tablespoons of cooked parsnips, carrots, or squash right before bed; this will tend to stop nocturnal hypoglycemia, and give your cortisol axis a rest, which can often help regulate daytime hypoglycemia IF you also begin to cut down on foods containing insulin mimicking lectins. A cup or two of licorice tea can also help regulate cortisol and minimize sugar cravings.


http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert1/config.pl?read=49
I don't recommend that type A's do that much physical type exercise. Now, before you groan , let me say that you can do a program incorporating running etc, but you must also seek to incorporate flexibility and mind-expanding forms of physical activity. You might say that perhaps your fatigue is "nervous" rather than "physical". Why not try to blend a bit of both? I'm sure you will find your foray into Hatha or Bikram yoga well-worth the investigation. A good goal for all type A's is to be more flexible and supple at age 65 than they are today.


http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archived/config.pl?read=132491
..the use of a more carbohydrate-based diet lowered cortisol (which is good gor type A's since they tend, when under stress, to have high cortisol levels).


http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivea/config.pl?read=66795
Generally pre-workout cortisol-blunting is one of the best effects of carbohydrate-loading*, which although normally used only in aerobic-endurance type exercise, has been shown to work as well in resistance training and virtually every other type of athletic pursuit. The trick, and this is the great gift of ER4YT, is to choose the carb properly.


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Lola
Friday, April 14, 2006, 6:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Don,
that s a very complete overview to this issue!!
thanks! )


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Laura P
Friday, April 14, 2006, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I have said a few times already people I'm telling her to do this for two weeks not a life time



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
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Connect
Friday, April 14, 2006, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Wow Don.  Thanks for taking the time to pull together those comments.  I certainly appreciate your effort.  It seems like there are some definite conflicting views on this issue.  

I think what Laura is trying to help me do is jumpstart my body back on track as far as fat burning is concerned.  It used to be efficient, but then I became a starchitarian for years and that seemed to really mess things up.  I think my body primarily works off of carbs and has forgotten how to access those stores of fat that I  need to burn.  Once I get things running smoothly again, of course I will continue to eat the Type A diet.  Although, I primarily think I will get my carbs from fruit, veggies and yogurt, as opposed to grains.  

My primary goal right now is to help my body learn to use its differing types of fuel.  I agree that a high protein/high fat diet is not the best for Type A, but if I am only utilizing this for a couple of weeks, it should not be a problem.    


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Don
Friday, April 14, 2006, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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Quoted from lkpetrolino
I have said a few times already people I'm telling her to do this for two weeks not a life time

I realize that and I repeated your advice, which I felt was appropriate since the discussion seemed to be headed in the direction of denigrating carbs and that might lead to long term carb avoidance.

The right carbs (BTD) in the right amount (also BTD) is what we all need and type A should eat a lot more than type O.


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Friday, April 14, 2006, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I agree Don.  I am definitely not a carb basher!  

As referenced above, I completely understand what Laura is trying to help me do, and in the short run, believe it will probably be good for me.  In terms of long term health, abstinence from carbs is not in my plan!

Thank you both so much for taking the time to help me understand this somewhat complex issue.  I appreciate the guidance.  


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Don
Friday, April 14, 2006, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Connect14, No problem, this is a topic I enjoy. I have been athletic for decades and have always been interested in how to improve using normal/natural diet methods.

You also might want to consider taking some liver support supplements like milk thistle or any of the others recommended in the Liver Support Protocols to help while your liver/body is transitioning its metabolism from carbs to more towards fats.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Friday, April 14, 2006, 7:01pm
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Connect
Friday, April 14, 2006, 7:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from ironwood55
Connect14, No problem, this is a topic I enjoy. I have been athletic for decades and have always been interested in how to improve using normal/natural diet methods.

You also might want to consider taking some liver support supplements like milk thistle or any of the others recommended in the Liver Support Protocols to help while your liver/body is transitioning its metabolism from carbs to more towards fats.


It's interesting that you mention Milk Thistle b/c I have been thinking of supplementing with this to help strengthen my liver (in hopes of helping it eliminate excess estrogens).  My only question was whether Milk Thistle had any estrogenic properties?  


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