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Missy
Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 6:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Melissa_J

I've heard back from NAP, and they'll get back to me once they look into it further.


Melissa,
Thanks  for taking care of this.


Missy - O+ non-secretor with a side of celiac
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Maria Giovanna
Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 8:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Dear friends and John,
I wonder if the article quoted explains why I can digest little portions (LR4yt ones) of raw or rare cooked beef and eggs and not at all well done beef and too fried eggs. I had also an hypoacid stomac but this is my experience since i was child.
I just find difficult to adapt in the A BTD a great amount of raw protein. As I am at my minimum normal weight. I fear I will become underweight. I can think to implement sushi and raw fish but I avoid beef for Cholesterol as per A diet and hate raw chicken and turkey. I ate once a slightly smoked raw turkey and it was not bad, but I cannot find it anyhere now.
I like a lot Yoghurt. kefir, miso and tamari and this could be this is living raw food as salads and raw veggies.
As a nearly clean addict I knew it was invain, now perhaps it is socially dangerous !
Thank you for your ideas and food for thought.

Maria Giovanna


INTJ Italy celiac��

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Elizabeth
Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 8:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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As a hypoacid O, I have found that I need hydrochloric acid (and, when I get into trouble) digestive enzymes.  I have tried to get away from this, but it seems to be important.  Poorly digested food in the gut leads to many bad things.  It is not so bad to take a few capsules with my meal, I just feel I "should" be able to overcome it.  Shoulds are often not a good idea.  Good luck.
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resting
Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 9:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hey Melissa,

maybe before accepting the 'verdict', we should do a little re-think of the way we process meat.  Like can't raw meat/fish be marinated in garlic oil, or a carriere oil like olive oil with clove, thyme and many other essential oils to kill all pathogens including parasites ... then eat it raw or dry it using extra-dry air blown over the meat or fish.  Do you know if celiac disease (and accompanying allergies) is a permanent degenerative condition or is it amenable to such a 'raw' diet, or do you not want to be bothered finding out.  To me, saying Dr D says 'no' is a poor way out!

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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Melissa_J
Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 9:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Honestly, you're right that I don't want to bother finding out.

Not to say that I've never eaten raw protein, if it looks appetizing and I know the sources are good I'll try it. In many instances though, I don't think its worth the risk for me. I digest protein quite well, and the inside of my steaks is often raw or nearly so (I think that has even been recommended per BTD). Looking into every aspect of how my raw meat is prepared is not something I usually have time or energy for, after investigating every other aspect of my food.

Here's a bit of personal opinion, while it may be good in general to eat raw protein, the rare case of food poisioning you could end up with would be a major setback for a celiac or otherwise underweight person. That is why I cannot fully endorse it for myself or others.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.

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Maria_Giovanna  -  Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 9:40pm
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JK
Thursday, August 25, 2005, 12:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I too like my steaks on the rare side but not raw! The only "raw' meat I eat is jerky, and I make my own (because I can't find store bought jerky without wheay/soy and mine is soooo much better!).

Thanks again, Melissa_J!

Judi
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Melissa_J
Thursday, August 25, 2005, 1:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, raw jerky is also very good, on Food Network they showed how to make it using a big fan and (clean) furnace filters. I think there are easier ways, but they claimed it was the best flavor.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.

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Missy
Saturday, August 27, 2005, 12:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Melissa,

Have you heard anything back on this topic yet? I was curious as to the final verdict.



Missy - O+ non-secretor with a side of celiac
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Melissa_J
Saturday, August 27, 2005, 12:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Not yet...but I think we'll get an accurate response once we get one

I always distrust the waiter that quickly says, "No, there's no gluten in any of our noodles"  


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Missy
Saturday, August 27, 2005, 1:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Melissa_J
Not yet...but I think we'll get an accurate response once we get one

I always distrust the waiter that quickly says, "No, there's no gluten in any of our noodles"


Agree, agree! Thanks for the quick response.  


Missy - O+ non-secretor with a side of celiac
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Melissa_J
Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text

-----Original Message-----

Hi Melissa
Thank you for your patience. However, after speaking with our technical
advisor, we can say that our products are gluten, corn and dairy free.
We are not able to comment on brewer's yeast, wheat grass and barley
grass if they are gluten free because we are not the source of these
products and can not decipher them.

If we can be of any further assistance please let us know.
4 Your Health
NAP Customer Service

-----Original Message-----

Thank you for your response.

Does this mean that Polyflora O and Harmonia are gluten free?

-Melissa

-------
Yes it does.


I think what they were saying at first is that they can't say all brewer's yeast and barley grass are gluten free, as general ingredients, but in the case of their products, they are.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.

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Missy
Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Melissa,

Thank you for getting back to us. I think for a bit I'm going to hold off anyway until I get my gut straigtened out from my last eposode. Then I will slowly add things back and see what the results are.



Missy - O+ non-secretor with a side of celiac
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Melissa_J
Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 8:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sounds good, we celiacs can be a very reactive bunch...

I once had wheat grass juice on an empty stomach, I watched them cut it and juice it so I'm pretty sure it had no grain hulls in it, but they gave me more than usual, and since it was free (bonus ) I drank it.  I can tell you I didn't want to look at another green thing for many days after that.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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JK
Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 10:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Melissa, I am still confused. When I spoke to someone at NAP, they said they got their brewer's yeast from a distributor. If that is the case, then the response you got indicates to me that NAP doesn't add gluten (obviously they wouldn't!) but they do add brewer's yeast from an outside source, and so NAP can't be sure it is GF.

I thank you so much for your effort here but I don't think they answered your questions well or fully!

I have had no nausea problems since dropping the PolyFloraO... even if I take a lot of the supps at once. Just finished a fist-full. Maybe with my leaky gut I am ultrahypersensitive! For me, I will forgo the PolyFloraO. I have been using RenewLife FloraMore and it sits well with me. Seven strains of microflora with fructooligosaccharides, l-glutamine and NAG.

Judi

BTW, I LOVE the other NAP products I am using! These are the only multi vitamins/minerals I have ever been able to take without stomach upset. I also like the Deflect, LiveCell and Quercetin. (Had to stop using the protein mix because of a new sensitivity to eggs butmaybe I'll be able to use it once I have healed). I am looking forward to trying more products and just placed an order including the above and licorice and B12....  

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Melissa_J
Wednesday, August 31, 2005, 11:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm glad you're feeling better.  Stick with what works!

The answer was a bit confusing, but I'm pretty confident about it now, as most supplemental brewers yeast I can find is also gluten free.  I've had similar responses from some food manufacturers, just because they don't want to be liable for any mistakes their suppliers may make, even though they have no reason to think there could be gluten in the ingredient.  I found the statement that all NAP products are free of gluten, corn and dairy to be what I was looking for, but unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm not super-sensitive to trace amounts of gluten, so I just do my best


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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JK
Thursday, September 1, 2005, 2:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Well Melissa, before I further malign   NAP (everyone, if you haven't read my edit above!! I love NAP products  ), I really should test the PolyFlora again. Maybe I will in a few days. I'll let you all know if I do. I have been feeling better and definately want to see if it is a new trend  

When I posted, I was wondering if any one else had had such an experience and had pin pointed it to the PolyfloraO, but I haven't heard anyone else chime in!

Judi
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Melissa_J
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Judi-

I got to thinking that maybe you have a yeast intolerance?  I don't know too much about it, but I remember that enterolabs offered a test for it.  Just thought I'd mention the possibility.

-Melissa


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Vicki
Saturday, September 3, 2005, 12:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, some people actually have a yeast allergy!  Not common at all, but before you go that route, I used to feel sick when taking the probiotic.  I had to take it with food at first, and then gradually moved to being able to take it on an empty stomach.  My fauna and flora was really messed up!
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TheViking
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
...maybe before accepting the 'verdict', we should do a little re-think of the way we process meat. Like can't raw meat/fish be marinated in garlic oil, or a carriere oil like olive oil with clove, thyme and many other essential oils to kill all pathogens including parasites ... then eat it raw or dry it using extra-dry air blown over the meat or fish. Do you know if celiac disease (and accompanying allergies) is a permanent degenerative condition or is it amenable to such a 'raw' diet, or do you not want to be bothered finding out. To me, saying Dr D says 'no' is a poor way out!


Well I wouldn't mind being bothered to find out - or, that's finding out if it can help with my problem which the doctors think is crohn's but aren't sure..

So if you decide to try this out and figure out how we can treat the meat prior to eating it so that we kill the parasites etc as mentioned above, then I'm very interested in joining you on that journey - in the name of science ..and of course self exploration


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Laura P
Saturday, September 3, 2005, 2:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I agree Melissa, I do not react to meat or poultry that has been fed grains or soy, however I do react to eggs of chickens that have been fed higher levels of soy



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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JK
Saturday, September 3, 2005, 6:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Melissa, no, I hadn't considered that I might be intolerant to yeast now too. Just about everything else is a problem right now, so maybe it is the yeast and not any contaminating gluten. I had the same bad reaction whether taking it on a full or empty stomach, Vicki, but thanks for the suggestion. I have had correspondence from another forum member who has a similar problem with polyflora and harmonia, so it is good to know the problem is not just with me (and therefore I probably did identify it correctly.)

I continue to feel better every day on this elimination diet, so it is a trend!   Finally I think I have a handle on ALL the health problems that have plagued me all my life, and finally I seem to have the "cure" in hand.

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Sam Dan
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Hi folks,

Like Glenn(the Viking) some may be in a position (at times forced) to try 'new things'.  Part of this attemp should come from tried practice ... although now manipulated for other purposes.  So I will try to provide some theoretical background and build towards a practical solution from there.

THEORY:
many of the varied 'ailments' in this thread are on a sort-of-continuum ....many are very encompassing and have much intestinal pain; many have a perponderance of leaky gut - it is not mentioned here, but IMO environmental allergies fit right in here.

Cells stick-together/agluttinate for more reasons than when a lectin binds them - BTD theory.  For instance all cells have a negative charge on their outer surface.  If this charge is stripped off the cell surface, it will bind with another cell (likely in similar circumstances).  This charge is formed by the action of million of molecules of two types of zwitterions (sounds like 'twitter-eye-ons).  One of this 'type' is membrane-bound taurine ... it binds zinc .... and, the other 'type' is the choline end on the lecithin molecule.

The more this charged is stipped off cells' = the more 'sticky' cells will get = the sicker you wll feel = the more compomised your immune systems = celiac disease, increasing number of allegens, distressed digestion, Crohn's disease, arthritis ... etc.  [Diets like the 'Zone' emphasize taking exclusively omega-3 oils EPA and DHA, blaming the stckiness on PgE2 from AA.  Every cell membrane though has all three EPA + DHA + AA.  Accenting one natural nutrient over another, just as natural nutrient, is a poor strategy long term.]  There are some ways to get the charge back! a) injest low doses of both zinc and taurine b) eat daily some lecithin c) replenish daily with some helpful intestinal supplements. d) the B vitamin niacin has helped this charge; e) under the influence of N-pole magnetic energy, strings of cells disperse ... I think, it is influencing this natural cell-charge.

a) zinc - @30mg + 3mg copper and taurine @200mg (maybe less) about the tip of 1 teaspoon
b) lecithin - 1Tsp daily ... easily taken with other oils/fats
c) [see below]
d) niacin ... great as part of vitamin B complex
e) N-pole magnets as above ... will ease severe stomach pain in 5 minutes!

c) INTESTINAL HELP:
- probiotics - there has been at least one other BTD'er like JK [who has had a very difficult time with the NAP Polyflora formula]  
   options - try judi's suggestion: "RenewLife FloraMore and it sits well with me. Seven strains of
                 microflora with fructooligosaccharides, l-glutamine and NAG. "
              - SBO's - Primal Defence or http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/flora
- Use FOS and/or ARA6 - to help good bacteria proliferate ... strains produce butyric acid (cell
         energy) and caprylic acid to destroy any fungi.
- mineral - magnesium -
- fat - ghee - mostly butyric acid
- amino acid -  L-glutamine
- seasonal 'greens'

EXPERIMENT - I am hoping to find a method that will not lead me to ever more diet restrictions ... usually carbs first ,,, ie. no fruit ...
Digestive enzymes should be of great assistance until a state of normalcy occurs.  Rather than another pill ... unheated honey may assist here.  It not only supplies the enzymes, but many simple sugars as well.  I hope to take advantage of this special honey's enzymes by blending it with some ghee  ... some hemp hearts and some salad.  Since food enzymes are destroyed  in cooking.  Much raw produce (that is difficut to eat raw) may be digested easily if it is combined with the honey.

Eating raw meats should only be done on inspected organic, grass-fed meats ... whether tar-tar or jerky.  Sushi may be one way to eat raw fish.  A condiment of horseradish + lemon juice may help.
I would have difficulty affording either.

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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TheViking
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 4:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hallois

Hmm, somehow I managed to miss this last post for a while..

I've been taking zinc, copper, l-glutamine and taurine once a day away from food - although I totally forget some times because I haven't made a rutine out of it yet..

My current dosage is this though (because of capsule sizes..):
2 mg copper
50 mg zinc
1000 mg L-glutamine
< 1/4 teaspoon taurine
Think this is alright? or should i maybe cut my zinc tablets in half or maybe double the copper?

I'm curious if you have figured out anything more about the raw meat part?
I did fall across some information about a "Spartan health regime" where they also talked about eating raw meat. I would really like to try this if it is suppose to be better for us, but I'm not sure how to prepare it to make sure there's nothing dangerous with it like disease or worms etc..

Still on the lookout for that really raw honey. Do you think it will be okei during candida-dieting?


Thanks


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Sam Dan
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Hi Glenn .... sorry, it's been one of those days,

re. the copper, zinc, taurine - probably 1/2 the zinc to a max of 25mg ... unless under specific instructions for a higher amount.

re. the Really Raw Honey ... that's the name of an American product ... can be googled.  Because you are in Australia, what you are seeking is called unheated honey.  The word 'raw' in this case often means that the honey is processed at a too high temperature.  Henriette Bsec is a good resource and knows a lot about honey.

The raw meat can be either sushchi(sp?) for raw fish Japanese-style, or tartar - French cuisine for steak ... or homemade jerky (made without high temperatures)  there are many essential oils that could be used in the marinate oil - clove and wild oregano are two.  I do not know much about this but many ancient cultures ate raw organ meats or eyeballs and testes. Muscle meats were fed to their dogs.

For quite some time, it has been known that any heating destroys enzymes.  Many protein structures are also changed by cooking.  Maybe (because we know so much more about EFA's) we'll find that cooking alters many fats considerably.  Do such alterations accumulate and slowly make us ill?  For instance, the making of homemade ghee meant the boiling of the oil in butter;  however, zola (on this board) takes many hours and low temperatures to make her ghee.  Is her method a drastic improvement?  We'll see.  

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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TheViking
Monday, September 26, 2005, 4:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hallois John

Thanks for a superb answer, as always

And no reason to apologise at all. Replying in a day on a month old thread is great. I posted in the evening and woke up to an answer in the morning

Zinc tablets will be broken in two from now on..

Creating home made jerky and those experiments probably have to wait till December when I'm back home in norway with access to a kitchen with real appliances (and a helpfull mother )..

If there are health benefits to eating the meat raw it would be an extremely good improvement for me since I'm eating so much meat now - even more than the LR4YT recommendations, but that's because I'm on the candida diet and in lack of alternatives..

For raw fish. I can't go out and eat sushi, cause then they've probably poisoned it with wheat and the like, but if I buy som tuna or salmon fillet at the grocery shop, is there some way I need to prepare that to make sure there's nothing dangerous with it, or can I just squeeze on some lemon juice and spice and dig in ?

About the unheated honey. Do you think those sugars will be okei with the candida diet, or should I wait with honey till the candida war is over?


And looking forward to december with seeking  out those hemp hearts..



Greetings,

Glenn


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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