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Starch, amylase, and nonnie-hood  This thread currently has 2,298 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 3:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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From Dr. D's n=1 blog post Gene Copy Numbers, Autism and Seaweed:
Quoted Text
Salivary amylase gene (AMY1) copy number is correlated positively with salivary amylase protein levels, and that individuals from populations with high-starch diets have on average more AMY1 copies than those with traditionally low-starch diets. Higher AMY1 copy numbers and protein levels likely improve the digestion of starchy foods and may buffer against the fitness-reducing effects of intestinal disease.
The point here is that some populations have more copies of AMY1 (the amylase gene) than other populations, those with more copies make more amylase, and those with more amylase can make better use of starchy food sources.

I've been wondering if there is a relationship between secretor status and salivary amylase levels.  It seems clear that nonnies have a harder time with carbs than secretors, so I figured it's a good question to ask.  I've done some searching on Google but haven't turned up anything useful yet.
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brinyskysail
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 3:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
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That's a great point.  (I don't know if I'm a nonnie, but I really think I am)  I obviously don't handle carbs well given that whole crazy blood sugar thing I went through before giving up grains.  Now I'm using starchy non-grains as my carb sources, and I feel great but only if I eat very small amounts of the starches.  I tracked my macronutrients today and only got about 12-15% of calories from carbs.  I feel really good on that kind of diet, but unfortunately I'll probably never gain weight on such a low-carb diet.  Maybe it is the way of eating that I need for healing my gut, and once it is healed then I can weigh more than a fruit fly


There is a good in every bad  
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TJ
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 3:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I hear you, now that I've quit all the grains, I'm starting to think I'd be better off without starch from any source.  I just cooked my last bag of dried beans today, and I'm not going to buy more (for now) after they are used up.  I've used up my canned beans, and I've got about half a pound of frozen peas left.

I feel better on sugar (i.e. from fruit) than I do on starch.  Sugars don't require amylase for digestion.  I wonder how quitting starch will affect this yeast overgrowth.  I have a theory that candida is like a garbage truck/scavenger that picks up and eats the food that your body can't use well (or at all).  If that's true, and if I'm ill-equipped to digest starch, then quitting starches should do more to starve out the yeast than quitting sugars.
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brinyskysail
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 3:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
I have a theory that candida is like a garbage truck/scavenger that picks up and eats the food that your body can't use well (or at all).


love it (now i'm picturing little yeasts wearing hardhats and carrying lunchbuckets - probably containing twinkies or donuts)

Quoted Text
If that's true, and if I'm ill-equipped to digest starch, then quitting starches should do more to starve out the yeast than quitting sugars.


candida does dig starches so if you're full of undigested starch...


There is a good in every bad  
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Niagreen
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 4:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi guys... I'm just wondering... when you don't eat grains what do you eat at each meal? is it mostly a meat protein and vegetables? a smoothie breakfast salad and then meat for dinner? I am just trying to get an idea of it. Do you get hungry?
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brinyskysail
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 4:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Niagreen
Hi guys... I'm just wondering... when you don't eat grains what do you eat at each meal? is it mostly a meat protein and vegetables? a smoothie breakfast salad and then meat for dinner? I am just trying to get an idea of it. Do you get hungry?


I make vegetables the center of my meal.  I eat a lot of poultry and fish (probably more than I should for a type A, but I feel horrible if I get less protein than i'm used to so maybe it's what my body needs) and also some eggs.  I include a very small amount of carbs with each meal, like beans, squash, or a root vegetable.

Personally I feel crazy better eating this way.  For several years I've been eating lower carb than most American's, but I didn't think I'd be able to eat this low carb without feeling groggy or like I was going to pass out, but actually that's the reason I started eating like this.  I was having blood sugar problems.  Every time I ate I had a blood sugar crash, got a headache, and felt jittery, cold, nauseous, tired, etc and had really strong fat cravings.  The very first day I gave up grains I didn't feel like that at all and haven't felt like that even once since (the fat cravings took a fews days to go away though).

At first I was just giving up grains to remove high GI carbs from my diet because of the blood sugar issue, but other things cleared up too so I think I have a problem with grains themselves.  Anyway I feel tremendously better!  I've always had a liking for the idea of the paleo diet, and that's practically how I'm eating now (just without all the bacon, red meat, and pork rinds;))  I'm definitely benefiting from the fact that I'm no longer getting the extremely inflammatory effects of grains.


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TJ
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 5:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Meat, fish, nuts, low-starch veggies, fruit.  I wish I could include eggs, cheese, and yogurt...
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brinyskysail
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 5:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I didn't list that - I eat a lot of nuts and some cheese (only very hard, lactose free cheeses, mainly parmesan)  You can keep the yogurt


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Niagreen
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 5:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I see.. thanks guys    

I wonder if I would benefit from a low carb diet. I'm trying to plan some meals in my head and see if I can put it into practice. I just really want to get some energy from my food, because although I do get hungry... it's not a normal 'healthy' person's hunger. My fullness is strange too. But if I get to the point when i haven't eaten for a while, I get this gnawing in my upper stomach and need to eat to get rid of it.

I've upped my fats lately.. and this has slightly reduced my carbs (along with eliminating gluten) I've begun to make cakes with coconut flour or coconut and buckwheat flours.

I think I do have blood sugar problems  I can't seem to go without food for more than a few hours.. if I don't eat for a long time, my kidneys/back area hurt (strange.. not sure why) sometimes if I get so hungry I get too tired to eat... then have this backlog of hunger I need to satiate.

thanks guys!
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TJ
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 10:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Niagreen
I think I do have blood sugar problems  I can't seem to go without food for more than a few hours.. if I don't eat for a long time, my kidneys/back area hurt (strange.. not sure why) sometimes if I get so hungry I get too tired to eat... then have this backlog of hunger I need to satiate.

thanks guys!
Adrenal fatigue?  The adrenals are positioned directly on top of the kidneys, btw.
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TJ
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 10:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've been reviewing my information on fructose malabsorption today.  I think I need to re-incorporate some of that practice into my diet once again.  Moving away from that may be another factor in my yeast overgrowth.

I still have 2 quarts of the soup I made with the dried beans.  I was going to try to eat it up before commencing with the low-starch project, but now I think I'm just going to stick it in the freezer.  Why postpone happiness?!?   Or maybe my house mates will take it.

Regarding the peas, it was actually a 2 lb. bag, not a 1 lb. bag, so I still have over a lb. remaining.  The good news is that a serving of peas has 4 g of starch and 4 g sugar, so it's borderline.  But I still may just let them sit, too.
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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brinyskysail- I've been wondering a lot about your diet lately. It seems that it's mostly the Os and Bs who do well on low-carb, and the As  who need carbs at every meal for energy. The way you eat is what's generally recomended for Os (although I personally can handle more carbs than you can.)  I can't help but wonder if your blood test was wrong, and you're actually an O or a B, not an A.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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Kim
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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brinyskysail- I seem to work the same way you do with carbs.  I feel horrible if I don't eat a certain amount of protein with a meal.  I can eat fish most of the time with no problems but do not handle starches well at all.  I know I am an A but wonder if my secretor test is wrong.  I worked hard to get the saliva out to do the test and I saw somewhere that you can end up messing up the test that way.
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brinyskysail
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ruthie, it's interesting that you say that because, for some reason, my parents thought I was an O.  I have been told my entire life that I am BT O so when I actually did the test before starting GTD I was so shocked that I am an A that I ordered a separate test and tried again.  Both tests said A+ though so I would think that's right.  Explorers need a good bit of protein so that may be the answer.  I feel pretty good if I eat mainly just meat and vegetables, which might be weird for an A, but I definitely don't do well on red meat, only poultry and fish.

I know that I'm not a B because my mom is an A and my dad is an O.  My brother and sister are both As and my mom's parent's are both A's.  Because of that, I assume (but can't know for sure) that my mom's genotype is AA; if that's the case then mine is AO (maybe it's just a really strong recessive O   )  I once used the GT calculator in the book to see what I would be if I were an O.  I don't even remember for sure what it came up with, but I think it was Explorer.

Kim, I really do think that I am a non-secretor.  I'd like to do the test, but $50 isn't going to pop out of nowhere so maybe i'll have to wait until my birthday - that's how I got swami   It's interesting, though, the only thing that changes on my swami between secretor and non is the variety of meat I can have.  The actual amount doesn't change, but the variety really increases.  A lot more types of meat become beneficial and diamonds.

Maybe it's just because my health is so messed up?  Who knows.  For now I'm going with the "everybody is an individual" response


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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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OK, two tests are unlikely to be wrong. You're just unique!

Does your SWAMI recomend the amount of meat that you've found you need, or do you find that you need way more than recomended?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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brinyskysail
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I seem to be able to stick close to the swami recommendation.  I don't eat any red meat so I add those servings to poultry, and it seems to work out.  The place where I do really bad is veg proteins.  I'm supposed to have 6 servings a week, but I can easily get around 30   Nuts aren't supposed to be real great for the digestive system so my goal right now is to reel that in...a lot.  Part of that is also beans, though, I've been using them as a carb source now that I'm not eating grains.  I seem to do better with beans than with starches like root veggies.  It's hard to know what to do, and it gets so confusing


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TJ
Thursday, May 26, 2011, 3:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from brinyskysail
Nuts aren't supposed to be real great for the digestive system so my goal right now is to reel that in...a lot.
Overnight soaking can help with that.  Of course, you end up with mushy nuts, but if you have a dehydrator you can dry them out again and retain the benefit of soaking.
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TJ
Thursday, May 26, 2011, 3:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm still wondering if being a non-secretor is correlated to lower levels of salivary amylase....
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Possum
Thursday, May 26, 2011, 7:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Me too TJ
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Poppy
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I'm popping in here to say that I don't know about the salivary amuylase, but I do have another question to increase my ideas for breakfast, or any other meal for that matter... and the question is, can I eat raw or cooked, the kolrabi greens,which up until now I have been throwing out?? I am still eating some grains, but not in excess. It takes me about 3 weeks to go through a loaf of quinoa bread made by "Organic Works" from London Ontario. I still eat small amounts of rice, some quinoa, and very occasionally some brown rice pasta. But I do struggle to keep my weight down to 140 lb. (keep slipping up by a couple of lb. if I'm not really careful. So, another question, do those of you who eat NO grains maintain your weight better?


I love dogs and turtles, bird watching, canoeing, cooking for friends and family, knitting, reading, and DR. D's diets!
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brinyskysail
Thursday, May 26, 2011, 12:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Poppy
can I eat raw or cooked, the kolrabi greens,which up until now I have been throwing out??


why have you not been eating kohlrabi?  and yes, it can be eaten raw or cooked.  It is a fairly tough green, though, so you may get more nutrients from it if you steam it before eating it.

Quoted Text
So, another question, do those of you who eat NO grains maintain your weight better?


I can't really say from personal experience because I can't gain weight no matter what I eat, but it has been proven through diets like atkins and paleo that people are much, much more likely to lose weight if they eat NO grains.


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O in Virginia
Thursday, May 26, 2011, 2:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Very interesting.  I'm also beginning to discover that I feel better avoiding even compliant starches.  Swami tells me I'm not supposed to be a starchitarian.  I do eat rice, but I've been cutting back on that.  I rarely eat beans anymore, as I find they are very carby and affect me like grains - bloating and weight gain, even the organic ones that I sprout and then cook.  I don't buy canned beans anymore.  I really do best on simple, lean animal protein and fresh veggies or salads.  Last night's dinner was a lamb burger and a salad of mixed baby greens - no starches on my plate.  Today, I feel really well.  And I don't feel any carb cravings today.  It seems the cure to carb cravings is carb avoidance.  Duh!     

I always maintain weight loss better on minimal to no grains.  Beans and grains make me gain.  Most of it is bloaty water weight, but it makes me feel sluggish.  Lean and green is the way to go for me.  Fish &  veggies, lean red meat & veggies.  Fresh fruits are ok, too.
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Poppy
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I'm having a sweet potato for dinner tonight. that and 2 rice cakes will be my only carbs for today. I am finding it a bit hard to keep up the variety, and seem to eat a lot of swiss chard and broccoli. I will try coolking the kolrabi greens. I also make smoothies for breakfast with kale, bananas and blueberries. But, I do still like to put hummous, almond butter, or something like this on SOMETHING that resembles toast, crackers, or bread! It is a comfort thing for me.


I love dogs and turtles, bird watching, canoeing, cooking for friends and family, knitting, reading, and DR. D's diets!
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Poppy
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And, thanks for your replies!


I love dogs and turtles, bird watching, canoeing, cooking for friends and family, knitting, reading, and DR. D's diets!
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TJ
Saturday, May 28, 2011, 4:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've had a sort of shift on this no-starch idea.  I think it's just grains and beans that are the problem for me.  Grains have prolamines, which are inflammatory to varying degrees.  Beans are full of fructans and galactans -- neither of which are digestible for humans but both of which are great food for the bacteria and yeast in the gut.

Now I know that knocks out most of the permissible starch sources, but not all.  I don't consider peas to be beans, even though closely related, but peas "feel" ok for me.  Bananas also have a substantial amount of starch, and tapioca is a superfood for me.  Then there are sweet potatoes, but I suspect that they aren't doing me any favors when I eat them.
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