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TJ
Saturday, May 21, 2011, 10:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Do any other nonnies out there suffer with this?

It hasn't been long since I realized this, but there's something about using the telephone that makes me very tense.  Whenever someone calls me, the phone ringing is an anxiety trigger, even if it doesn't startle me.

The good thing is that I can ignore the call if I don't feel like dealing with it right now; it's a snap decision and it's over with -- unless I actually answer the phone: then it depends on the nature of the call and how I'm feeling atm.  It's worse when I'm trying to make a call than it is when I'm answering one.  I have to work myself up to doing it!  I usually get this even if I'm calling friends or family members that I'm close to and feel safe with.

So yesterday, I was going to make a phone call, and I was present enough to recognize the feeling as it was happening.  Instead of making the phone call, I just sat there with the phone and let myself feel it.  I tried to look inside myself to see where the anxiety was coming from, but I couldn't see it.

I have a very vague idea about the root of this, but nothing close to certain.  What can I do to work through this?  It drives me crazy that I'd rather spend an hour traveling to get the information in person than to just make a 5 minute phone call.
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Victoria
Saturday, May 21, 2011, 11:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't know about the phone specifically, but I've always been plagued with various "irrational" anxieties.  I can see how it could be a nonnie trait for some of us, considering some of the conversations I've seen around here.

I have a phone with a good ringer volume control.  It's turned down to the lowest setting so that I can't even hear it if I'm in a different room.  I don't like to be shocked by a loud sound in my house that I'm not expecting.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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O in Virginia
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 12:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, TJ!  I think I know how you feel.  I find phone calls intrusive.  When the phone rings I immediately feel anxious like I have to jump to it.  The ringing of the phone is disruptive and startling, nerve-jangling really.  I don't like talking on the phone, though I'm better at making calls (because I can prepare in advance) than receiving unexpected ones.  I feel much better when I can talk to someone face to face, although there are some people I enjoy conversing with so I can calm down and get comfortable in the phone conversation after a minute or two.  It's not always awful, but the ringing of the phone itself is irritating.  And I hate having my picture taken, too, but that's a different subject.  

Anyway...good for you for trying to explore this feeling to find the root of it.  I think it will come to you as you continue practicing the mindful exercise.  I'd love to know more about it, if you feel like sharing later.  Might give me some insight too!
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TJ
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 12:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from O in Virginia
I feel much better when I can talk to someone face to face, although there are some people I enjoy conversing with so I can calm down and get comfortable in the phone conversation after a minute or two.
I'm so there.  After I'm into the conversation it's a lot easier.  It's like, "Hey, this isn't so bad after all!"  except that I have to relearn it every time!
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TJ
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 12:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Victoria
I don't know about the phone specifically, but I've always been plagued with various "irrational" anxieties.  I can see how it could be a nonnie trait for some of us, considering some of the conversations I've seen around here.
Maybe somebody will come along with some good ideas that can be applied to any of these anxieties.
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Victoria
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 1:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think you're handling it well, TJ.  Anytime a person can be present enough to be able to describe an anxiety attack when they're in the middle of it, they are doing pretty well!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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AKArtlover
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 2:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
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Two questions you might ask yourself.
Are you mostly a visual person? Do you feel unprepared for the conversation? Is your concern more with understanding or being understood? Most people have dominent preferences of receiving information. Also a whoooole lot of communication is nonverbal.

If you don't consider yourself adept in the auditory rhelm and you are more comfortable communicating or listening visually, this may be the root.

I often remember faces. Names (verbal) not so much. Much different when I see a name and then associate it with a person.

Maybe just get a clear thought in your mind about the purpose of the call and then before you pick up the phone picture yourself pleasantly thinking about the conversation outcome that you want to occur after you hang up. Get a visual of you doing whatever you will be doing after feeling good about it.

Anxiety is imagining the outcome you don't want. Imagining what you want is the antidote.

Another technique is imagining the possible worst outcome that could happen. If you could survive that, it puts it into perspective. What if you communicated so poorly with the person that they became so angry at the situation that they came over to your home and busted into the door and shot you dead?

Not very likely. And pretty laughable. Other than that, no sweat, most things work out. Relax. Laugh at your fear and it disappears.  

Just my take.  Forgive me if this makes no sense or sounds trite. Super tired and attempting to be helpful.  

They know some things you don't know. You know some things they don't know. You know?


Sweet dreams....







"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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brinyskysail
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 2:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You are totally not alone; I feel the same way.  I have ALWAYS hated the phone.  I felt like crying the year that my dad got me a cell phone for Christmas because I knew people would be more easily able to call me.  (we finally settled on me just keeping it in the car in case of emergencies)  My mom calls me "miss phone personality" because on the phone I just say "yes" and "no" and I'm very monotone, even though I would carry out a normal conversation if I were having the same conversation in person, face to face.  I think the face to face thing may be the reason I don't like the phone.  I don't like that I can't see the other person.  That even bugs me sometimes when I read things people type online - I can't see their body language so I don't always know exactly how to interpret what they've said or if they are being genuine.

I understand how you feel though.  Unless I'm expecting an important call I don't answer the phone, and I practice what I'm going to say before making any phone calls.  The most difficult calls for me to make are the ones that should be the easiest, like calling a store to see if they're open on Tuesdays or something dumb like that.  I have noticed that I've gotten a little better about this recently, though.  I had been having major depression and became extremely withdrawn as a result of all of the health problems I've been having, but I had decided to try homeopathy for my physical symptoms, and although it has (at least so far) done nothing for my physical symptoms, I cannot even describe the miracle that has occurred mentally and emotionally - It's like I've been raised from the dead!  Six months ago I had been so depressed and disgusted with everything that I didn't even feel human or consider myself to be human anymore.  I felt like someone else had entered my body.  The real me still existed but was somewhere distant and I couldn't find her.  As the homeopathic treatments continued I became increasingly less depressed and after the last dose I took of my remedy I have really made improvements.  I feel so much more alive and so much more like me.  It's hard to describe, but it's amazing.  Then I had my "epiphany" that I wrote about in the "life lessons" thread, and things have been even more amazing since then.  It has made a difference in my ability to communicate with others.  I was so...aloof, I guess, before that my people skills and communication abilties were terrible (that was also part of the reason for my phone anxiety), but now I can both speak and listen to people better.

Ok, I just rambled a lot, and I don't know if any of that is going to be of any use to you, but I really understand the phone thing so I thought I should reply.


There is a good in every bad  
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upnorth6
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 10:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Do any other nonnies out there suffer with this?

It hasn't been long since I realized this, but there's something about using the telephone that makes me very tense.  Whenever someone calls me, the phone ringing is an anxiety trigger, even if it doesn't startle me.

The good thing is that I can ignore the call if I don't feel like dealing with it right now; it's a snap decision and it's over with -- unless I actually answer the phone: then it depends on the nature of the call and how I'm feeling atm.  It's worse when I'm trying to make a call than it is when I'm answering one.  I have to work myself up to doing it!  I usually get this even if I'm calling friends or family members that I'm close to and feel safe with.

So yesterday, I was going to make a phone call, and I was present enough to recognize the feeling as it was happening.  Instead of making the phone call, I just sat there with the phone and let myself feel it.  I tried to look inside myself to see where the anxiety was coming from, but I couldn't see it.

I have a very vague idea about the root of this, but nothing close to certain.  What can I do to work through this?  It drives me crazy that I'd rather spend an hour traveling to get the information in person than to just make a 5 minute phone call.


You were wise to sit with your feelings instead of making the call...that's the way you'll eventually figure it out!

Don't know if I'm a nonnie yet (still need to do my test, I have it, I keep forgetting to do it!)

I have a bit of a dislike for the phone as well. I have learned that there are times when I don't want to be interrupted or deal with anyone. In those times I turn the ringers off....I figure I have an answering machine, and voice mail on my cell, (even e-mail) if it's that important they can leave me a message. This way I can be better prepared to handle what ever it is when I get back to them.

There are times when I have anxiety over making a phone call. For me personally I have discovered that the anxiety stems from me not knowing "where I stand" with the person on the other end of the line. I don't know how I will be recieved

I like to know where I stand with people....I like to know where I fit....does that make sense?

I have also found I dislike the thought that I may be interrupting someone or being an intrusion to their day.....but realistically that is not my problem...they have to choose whether or not to take my call.

I also know that I can be very prone to not wanting to step outside of my "routine"......making random phone calls to doctors, vets, schools etc...is out of my daily routine.....that causes great stress, because I find I can "relax" when I know my routine....to combat this....I plan ahead and block off a portion of time to make the calls on my list.  






Hubby O-, 16yr son A-, 14yr son A-, 12yr daughter A-, 7yr son O-

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Amazone I.
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 11:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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those are all psyche patterns related to the INTJ-psychegram!!!

Once learned how you're ticking... all is over integration of the shadow is da zauberword here ....

we're all doing, creating those things ourselfs... but for another time...remember it well you don't have.... whatever... but you're it!!!
Here I think the so called bodytalking system is a wonderful aid, EFT, yoga tai-chi.... ....and of course the Don Miguel Ruiz system as well.....once understood... no fear nor anything similar is able to disturb you.... let me tell you...going for a fine walk and relaxing issues for mood and body are the next to
practise.... all no 5ves in the enneagram suffer +- from a sort of inner tension.... as long as we don't work on it... it will last... so far...please take you for serious and work on such patterns....




as my beloved old advaita teacher Jean Klein once told me: Isa... have a look what you're NOT!!!!!
Nobody is....& nobody has...... so please half of mine...who's suffering then   yup my dearle you're right...the self is empty.....
why do I try to make you understand this ....coz in the moment YOU'll have understood, you can let go fear and tension... and they won't take care anymore of you....... this was primordial once for me and saved literally my life....while having been obliged to let go all in my life instantly.... so far I only can recommend the practise ....

but remember it always... INTJ's are very rare birdies.....read the patterns of no 5 and 6 in the enneagram, also the decline of *desintegrative ways*... !!!
It also depends how toughy your NT-part is..... are you more 5 or your edge called 6= istp/J ....


MIfHI K-174
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koahiatamadl
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 12:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hmm, not sure I would call my feelings anxiety but I do put off phone calls that are not purely social.  And my work mobile is on silent at all times and the office land line is diverted to the mobile - I'll answer it when I'm good and ready and nine times out of ten I'll let it go to voicemail and call people back.  

I think my natural inclination would be to communicate in writing.  But I have found that once I get round to making that call it is normally a pleasant experience and much easier than a prolonged email exchange, where there is much more scope for misinterpretation because you can get a lot of clues from somebody's voice.  And by being forced to make those calls I was putting off they are becoming much less of an issue and I am becoming much happier to just make the call - seems to be a skill one can learn     
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Amazone I.
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 12:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
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it seems to underline my writings above huh thanx for the confirmation k-madl and hey nice to see you back again


MIfHI K-174
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RedLilac
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 1:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don’t like talking on the phone.  I’d rather send e-mails or FB messages.  I prefer short to the point conversations, I don’t like long chit chat.  I’ve got a friend who doesn’t like to use e-mail or FB 7 when she calls it is long drawn out. Usually she calls while I’m in the middle of something else & I feel rude for trying to cut her off.
My Mother was a phone-a-holic.  Back in the late 50’s early 60’s we go to the drug store that had a soda fountain.  I’d sit there or look through the comic books while my Mom sat in a superman type phone booth making calls.

I call my son & relay my message.  His calls to me are always short & sweet.  He calls every night to make sure I’m OK.

Sometimes I have to make calls at work if I can’t get away with e-mails.  I put them off as long as possible.  In the office, I walk over to someone’s desk more often than calling them.  I get to stretch a bit doing that.

Some people have jobs where they are on the phone constantly.  I couldn’t handle that.


I am B- NON-Sec Explorer; my son is B+ SEC Nomad; my Mother was O+; and my Father was AB-
SWAMI Thanksgiving present 2008
Revised from Arlene B- NonSec to RedLilac on 3/31/06
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Kristin
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 1:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
I don't know about the phone specifically, but I've always been plagued with various "irrational" anxieties.  I can see how it could be a nonnie trait for some of us, considering some of the conversations I've seen around here.

I have a phone with a good ringer volume control.  It's turned down to the lowest setting so that I can't even hear it if I'm in a different room.  I don't like to be shocked by a loud sound in my house that I'm not expecting.


Not I nonnie but I have had issues on and off with the phone - more often in calling for information about something. I have also had irrational anxieties at various times throughout my life. In looking back, when I have something outside of myself to focus on, the anxieties tend to dissipate. The ringing of the phone I find very jarring... also the ringing of the alarm clock. I had one of those Zen alarm clocks for years that chimed instead of rang... so much better!!

Quoted from AKArtlover
Two questions you might ask yourself.
Are you mostly a visual person? Do you feel unprepared for the conversation? Is your concern more with understanding or being understood? Most people have dominent preferences of receiving information. Also a whoooole lot of communication is nonverbal.

If you don't consider yourself adept in the auditory rhelm and you are more comfortable communicating or listening visually, this may be the root.


Very good points!! I realized years ago that I cannot focus auditorily unless I am moving. I have to move to get it. If I am sitting and listening, forget it! I can focus for about 20 minutes and then my mind begins to wander... Visual stimulation helps, like slides during a pp presentation, but then I read the slides and do not hear the presenter. It is one of the reasons that I do not attend the IfHI conferences: I don't "get" most of the presentations because I am sitting *trying* to listen. Not a good way for me to get anything. How I made it through all those years of schooling, I'll never know.... except that I was a dance minor during college so I did get lots of movement in each day with a cross lateral focus - good for brain wiring. Grad school was dance therapy which was totally movement based. Every class had some movement involved so it was very easy for me to focus and assimilate in that context.




The true meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit.

- Nelson Henderson
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Kim
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 2:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I just don't answer the phone if I don't want to.  If it is important, they will leave a voice mail.  I call back if I feel like it or call back later when I am ready to talk.  We only use cell phones in our house.  Got rid of the landlines to save money.
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brinyskysail
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 2:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
those are all psyche patterns related to the INTJ-psychegram!!!


Well, I guess that helps explain it for this INTJ.  Very interesting stuff, Amazone


There is a good in every bad  
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pegf1008
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 2:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have ALWAYS had a problem with people calling me, even as a child. I also prefer to do any business face to face rather than by telephone. Even email is easier for me than phone conversations, and I think that is because I have a harder time understanding what others say and also making myself understood. I remember, though, as a child I was grounded because I refused to take a phone call from a class mate, and I remember many times getting extremely angry with my parents when they would make me talk to my sisters on the phone. Now I do better if I make the phone call than if I get one. I have caller ID so I can determine if the person calling is someone I want to talk to and I feel comfortable not answering it if I don't want to talk and especially if the caller ID cannot ID the person.
(I also hate having my picture taken, like O in Virginia)



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Amazone I.
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 4:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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pegf1008 might it be that you're an 8/9 in the enneagram...so called ENFJ  
reluctancy belongs almost to no 9.... but it must be understod why!!!!....sometimes even no 1 has similarities but the issue is something completely different   ...
ooh yea...the eneagram is very interesting....

dearest half of mine A-friend  and hello explorer as well ... yup but easy to be found in the http://www.enneagramistitute.com and / or MBTI... or justamente....the little workout of C.G.Jungsche psychology ....

btw... yup the book "wisdom of the enneagram* is nothing but amazing... the books of Prof. Dr. Keirsey aren't that bad... *please understand me I & II* but then giftsdiffering of Briggs-Myers is enchanting to understand  
btw... we seem to have a lot in common, me too soy,lactose,grain...etc..-free ...are you also an A2


MIfHI K-174
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Victoria
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 4:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kristin

The ringing of the phone I find very jarring... also the ringing of the alarm clock. I had one of those Zen alarm clocks for years that chimed instead of rang... so much better!!

I realized years ago that I cannot focus auditorily unless I am moving. I have to move to get it. If I am sitting and listening, forget it! I can focus for about 20 minutes and then my mind begins to wander...


Me too!  Nothing ruins my day like being awakened by an alarm clock!  A couple of years ago, I bought a Zen Timepiece, which is the Zen clock with a brass bowl.  The bowl is struck at the time you set the 'alarm'.  What a wonderful sound to wake up with!

I also relate to the necessity of movement.  I don't learn or retain the data if I'm only hearing it.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Amazone I.
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 7:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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all about the so called *sensitive personality* ... meou-meou...


MIfHI K-174
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faithandjoy4
Monday, May 23, 2011, 12:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi I can relate I hate when me phone rings unplanned but I know why'....for me the anxiety stems from the fact that that was how I was told my dad past away and that my mom was in the hospital even though both situations where years ago It is still a trigger of fear that bad news is coming...,I work on it daily....I wish you much luck
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ruthiegirl
Monday, May 23, 2011, 12:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't do well on phone calls either. I find the ring startling. I'm a visual person, and I'd much rather SEE the information in front of me than have to listen for it. I don't even like watching movies or TV without subtitles. I can comprehend so much more easily when I can read rather than relying on my ears for the information.

I don't get panic attacks, but I was really, super upset when I found out that I had to make a bunch of phone calls for the upcoming blood drive. I'm not sure I would have volunteered for the blood drive comittee if I'd known there would be phone calls involved! I thought I would just be seeing people in person the day of the drive and putting up fliers around town.

In the end, I psyched myself up for it, made all 20 or so calls (durign business hours, calling home phones, so mostly leaving messages and leaving the head of hte comittee's namd and number for callback.) When i had to do it again for the next blood drive,  I got through it with much less anxiety.

No question, I'm much more social on facebook or email or online than I am through the telephone.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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honeybee
Monday, May 23, 2011, 3:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't have a problem with phoning for business or close family, however, if a friend (or extended relative) is on the line I freak out & my mind jumps around thinking I don't have any interesting news or sharp wit to entertain a phone call   it is a kind of performance anxiety lol.

Definitely more cued into visuals - and pref face to face.

Recommend practicing phone calls on family and colleagues
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AKArtlover
Monday, May 23, 2011, 4:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kristin




Very good points!! I realized years ago that I cannot focus auditorily unless I am moving. I have to move to get it. If I am sitting and listening, forget it! I can focus for about 20 minutes and then my mind begins to wander... Visual stimulation helps, like slides during a pp presentation, but then I read the slides and do not hear the presenter. It is one of the reasons that I do not attend the IfHI conferences: I don't "get" most of the presentations because I am sitting *trying* to listen. Not a good way for me to get anything. How I made it through all those years of schooling, I'll never know.... except that I was a dance minor during college so I did get lots of movement in each day with a cross lateral focus - good for brain wiring. Grad school was dance therapy which was totally movement based. Every class had some movement involved so it was very easy for me to focus and assimilate in that context.




Hubby is auditory digital and kinesthetic and he paces everytime he is on the phone, too! He is musically gifted as well. Drums, guitar, etc. That's really good that you realize about yourself.  You just helped me learn something about him.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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