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Why do we exist?  This thread currently has 4,764 views. Print Print Thread
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DoS
Sunday, September 27, 2009, 11:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I have found zero information as to why non-secreters exist.

Yes I know about the gene on chromosome 19. It means nothing to me. It explains nothing.

From an evolutionary stand point why would we ever develop? We are inferior and that confuses me as to why we would of come about. I guess the A1/A2 argument applies to some degree except if A2 can eat more meat I think that sort of speaks for itself.

Yeah I want to know why. I want to understand why genetically everything important to me is not going to be there.
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Dr. D
Sunday, September 27, 2009, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Non-secretors seem to get less cancer and seem immune to some viral infections.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Possum
Sunday, September 27, 2009, 11:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Expluntherer... It means I'm an O...;-)
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"Non-secretors seem to get less cancer and seem immune to some viral infections" And you say nonnies are "inferior" DofS doesn't sound like it!!??  
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DoS
Sunday, September 27, 2009, 11:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
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Soo I can start smoking cigarettes! but if I do get cancer Chemotherapy will not help... still sounds nice.

I can see no reason why it could be valuable to be a non-secreter except if a viral epidemic came. You are still going to have bad teeth and probably be overweight and prone to a bazillion other things.
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Amazone I.
Monday, September 28, 2009, 5:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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nooo boy... we aren't inferior.... I get stomach cramps with that word!!! .....

we are the funniest,nicest,respectfulliest, greatest and so on royal bunch on earth....even with some poundies more lovable and insightful.... ..... I think also here the rule of 20/80% makes the world go round  ......

and what else..... ......
ahh  forgot to reply...why we do exist...coz you choose it....and it was clearly ad definitio well prepared .....even loooong times ago.....
the essence is the true master ...........

Peter, sorry but mostly *my* nonnie-clients show up the highest issues to cancer.... ....are there any differences between EU & USA ....significant differences clarro coz of foods etc... but not necessarily coz of genetical issues ....


MIfHI K-174

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Amazone I.  -  Monday, September 28, 2009, 5:52pm
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jayneeo
Monday, September 28, 2009, 3:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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If you think that's weird, check out my new thread: why do rhnegatives exist? and if you google it, you will really be in for a ride....from ET origins to reptilians....to Atlantis! Great fun!
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Victoria
Monday, September 28, 2009, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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I'll tell you one reason I'm glad I'm a non-secretor. . .
because if I had been a secretor, I don't think I would have taken my health as seriously and followed the plan of eating for my own type as consistently as I do now.

I've never been a person to stop a bad habit until I was hit in the face with a really good reason to do it.  I followed the BTD loosely for about 1 1/2 years, eating mostly neutrals with a few beneficials and some avoids every day.  I could have continued like that forever except that I decided to get my secretor status tested.  When I saw that I am a nonnie, all my ambivalence vanished.  I no longer was careless with my health.  I took full responsibility for my own well-being and was thrilled that I had the tools to manage my health in a successful way.

This is not to say that I think secretors don't take their health seriously, but I didn't take my health that seriously as long as I thought I was a secretor.  I thought it was no big deal if I didn't really eat what was best for me.  I thought my body could handle it.  As a non-secretor, I know my body can't handle it, and therefore my choices are easy and my life is simple.  




Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion

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Victoria  -  Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 2:23am
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, September 28, 2009, 7:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
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Quoted from DoS
I have found zero information as to why non-secreters exist.

Well, I don't know about you, but I was put here to find out the ending to "LOST".



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist
Monday, September 28, 2009, 7:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from DoS
Soo I can start smoking cigarettes! but if I do get cancer Chemotherapy will not help... still sounds nice.

Smoking cigarettes sounds nice to you?  AND you don't like the Beatles?  Someone, take over here, I can't relate!     

Seriously, here's one for you:  As an O, I have thin blood.  But non's have thick blood.  So, as an O non, my non-ness evens out my O-ness and my blood is actually the perfect thickness!

Yeah, baby.

...Of course, that doesn't really help you as an A, does it?  All the more reason to follow the A diet, my friend, because it will help keep your blood at the perfect viscosity!



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Lola
Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 1:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
took full responsibility for my own well-being and was thrilled that I had the tools to manage my health in a successful way.


that s what this journey is all about! summarized in one sentence!

ending with
Quoted Text
and therefore my choices are easy and my life is simple.


perfect!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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Lola  -  Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 1:36am
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DoS
Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 6:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I can not stop thinking, like ever, but...

My conclusion of learning several things might be that non-secretors pre-date secretors. Secretion may be an adaptation to agriculture and forceful food use. Perhaps that is VERY WRONG but evidence thus far points that way. After all what use is cancer and anti-viral ability except in pre-developed societies of people. My thoughts being that Basque people are general non-secreters (no proof but given what we know, what Dr. D has mentioned)also resembling closest older variations of humans (paleolithic), and the other closests removed from modern man would be Africans showing large numbers of non-secreters.

Further more if Blood Type A is the first known blood type it would only make sense that for other blood types to develop it would be easiest in an environment with less potential threats or triggers for a response. An example being a mother non-secreter. The same goes for intermingling of blood types without bad pre and infant mortality such as in Basque history. This goes way deeper so I am not going to type it all out till I confirm more suspicions as being real possibilities.

This is a whole other subject leading to a multitude of things and I am going to be talking to some professors if I get the chance to explore the idea.

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DoS  -  Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 6:46am
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Ribbit
Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 5:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from DoS
other closests removed from modern man would be Africans  


Hey.....Careful.  

According to my geneticist husband, the difference between the darkest of the dark in Africa or Australia.....and me (and I am about as white as you can possibly get)....is so small genetically speaking as to be laughable.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Fernando Boto
Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Further more if Blood Type A is the first known blood type it would only make sense that for other blood types to develop it would be easiest in an environment with less potential threats or triggers for a response.


????????????????


ISFJ

It's your life, live it wisely. Measure your words, and what goes in your mouth too.
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DoS
Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 9:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
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Ribbit you are not comparing genetic expression on a time line, I am. Mine would show colonization being pushed back to a much later date than a lot of the world. That also means agriculture etc.

Fernando current findings are that Type A is the oldest blood type. Type O is thought to be a mutation.

I would not propose that the oldest Type A blood shared anything in common with a "Teacher" or "Warrior" but rather an "Explorer". Well to put it blunt the old forms of Type A meant nothing as their genetic expression in no way resembled the Type A of today.
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Eric
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Victoria
I'll tell you one reason I'm glad I'm a non-secretor. . .
because if I had been a secretor, I don't think I would have taken my health as seriously and followed the plan of eating for my own type as consistently as I do now.
I've never been a person to stop a bad habit until I was hit in the face with a really good reason to do it.


AmEn!  was just about to say the same thing.   ;    Being more sensitive to food and the environment keeps me on the right side of the line


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paul clucas
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Do nonnies heal faster from physical trauma?

This has been my hypothesis as to the benefits of Nonnie-hood.  I heal quickly; really quick when I am in good health. The pre-antibiotic selection advantage of healing quickly would be hard to imagine these days.

Does anyone else heal quickly?

DoS, you are looking at the ABO typing in isolation and it never developed in that manner. This analytic tendency is the Achilles heel of western science.

Explorer could likely be the oldest simply because the ABO factor is not distinguished and since the Rhesus and Secretor genetic defensives where later adaptations. So we start with Explorers then get either Rhesus or Secretor breaking the first group into an initial alternative, which then fragments into A secretor (Teachers)  and O secretor (Hunters & Gatherers.) Then B mutation parallels Nomads from those who would otherwise be Hunters and Warriors from Teachers. The Warrior group straddles the B/non B divide and the Nomad straddles the A/non A divide from the nature of the AB co-dominance.

Co-development requires of us co-analysis.


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.

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paul clucas  -  Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:21am
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Victoria
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from paul clucas
Do nonnies heal faster from physical trauma?

This has been my hypothesis as to the benefits of Nonnie-hood.  I heal quickly; really quick when I am in good health. The pre-antibiotic selection advantage of healing quickly would be hard to imagine these days.

Does anyone else heal quickly?


I heal incredibly fast when I am in balance. When I'm not in balance, I feel very vulnerable.  

Today I was thinking that my health is like a butterfly:

beautiful and radiant, amazing and splendid  
but . .
delicate and fragile and can be damaged (even destroyed) through carelessness.

Hope this doesn't sound just too weird.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Ribbit
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from DoS


Fernando current findings are that Type A is the oldest blood type. Type O is thought to be a mutation.



Yes, that's what DH says.  He says, and I quote him as he's standing here, "There are two types of Os in the world.  Most Os are an A mutation.  Some are not."  (I assume those two types of Os would be two different genotypes.)  Dr. D would say there are more than just two, and we see that played out in the GTD.  DH hasn't read the GTD book, he just eats what I put in front of him and says he feels better on the Nomad diet.    I asked DH for more clarification and he said he's already explained it all here before, a long time ago.  I don't know where that is, but I do seem to remember him typing for a long, long, long time one evening a couple of years ago.  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Victoria
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from Eric


AmEn!  was just about to say the same thing.   ;    Being more sensitive to food and the environment keeps me on the right side of the line


Yes, tell it like it is!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Ribbit
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
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I heal very quickly.  I didn't used to.  Pre-BTD, any scratch or scrape on my skin would get infected. I didn't often get sick as a child, but when I did, I stayed sick for a long time.  I've had the "biggies" that other people don't get, but then I wouldn't get things like stomach viruses that everybody else got.

Now I heal very quickly with the exception of when I eat a plant in the nightshade family.  It will still take me 2-3 months to work through a nightshade reaction.  The time and severity can be somewhat decreased by taking 6 Deflects a day, every day, until it's all cleared up and gone away.  I do have to say that the longer I'm on the Warrior diet, the less severe my reactions are, but they are still pretty awful.  Working through one now.  I was exposed to paprika/red pepper about a month ago.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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jeanb
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 2:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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O nonnie here and I can heal extremely quickly.  Had to get an Achilles repaired on April 15 by mid June I was playing golf, riding a bike and hiking.  My surgeon said at 2 months I was healed like most of his patients at 4 months.

My O son, needed to get his shoulder repaired at the end of August.  He saw the surgeon last week (1 month) and she said he was already at 2.5 months healing.

Never seem to get scratches or scrapes or bruises that need any attention. But my kids and I do scar quite badly but never get infected.  A husband buys polysporin by the bucket as hang nails can even turn on him.

I don't know if it is a result of the diet or of being O's....
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jayneeo
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 3:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from paul clucas
Do nonnies heal faster from physical trauma?

This has been my hypothesis as to the benefits of Nonnie-hood.  I heal quickly; really quick when I am in good health. The pre-antibiotic selection advantage of healing quickly would be hard to imagine these days.

Does anyone else heal quickly?

DoS, you are looking at the ABO typing in isolation and it never developed in that manner. This analytic tendency is the Achilles heel of western science.

Explorer could likely be the oldest simply because the ABO factor is not distinguished and since the Rhesus and Secretor genetic defensives where later adaptations. So we start with Explorers then get either Rhesus or Secretor breaking the first group into an initial alternative, which then fragments into A secretor (Teachers)  and O secretor (Hunters & Gatherers.)


I'm not so sure, Paul C......the O, Rh-negative is controversial...some say it is neanderthal.....(Basque)

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Amazone I.
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 5:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
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paul...good ideas   and when did the nonniehood appear ..... ....


MIfHI K-174
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DoS
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 6:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
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Healing faster from physical trauma would be VERY beneficial to paleolithic people due to the fact that the farther you go back the more a physical ailment meant death. This could be a genetic trait carried over. A healing difference people on the BTD forums inherited from ancient times but may go well with being a non-secreter.

Healing fast when "in-tune" would show the characteristic of importance of origin and native food supplies being a reliance for health in earlier humans that did not secreter, as opposed to an adaptation you carry with you (secretion).

Paul I think the co-existence structure is a little more complicated, but yes I believe it happened something like that. I will point out that Native Americans are all secreters. I would suspect the reason being that they moved the farthest from origins so they had to adopt secretion much stronger and faster than anyone else who was slowly developing the need from agriculture and slow migrations. Which is why no non-secreters are found within the Native American lineage but is still present everywhere else that had access to non-secreter mixing and experienced slower need for adaptation. If non-secreters could exists in areas natural to them they would almost always remain present there, such as in some areas of Europe or Africa. That ever existence keeps the non-secreter gene cycling while it disappears "overseas" in the Americas.

Quoted from jayneeo


I'm not so sure, Paul C......the O, Rh-negative is controversial...some say it is neanderthal.....(Basque)



Um no... not neanderthal... but possibly genetically closely related or characteristic. At least my understanding from anthropology - although limited - is that we are not genetically showing signs to have neanderthal ancestry.

I would propose that the RH negative expression came first. It would make more sense to be lacking before having.

This leads to the proposition that perhaps different types of homo-s (erectus, sapian, etc) intermingled to create the variations of blood types and expressed epigenetical phenotypes.

Why non-secreters do not have to resemble "explorer" or paleolithic people

Whether we like it or not we can inherit the non-secreter expression. For example a Warrior of the Mediterranean area breads with an Explorer from the Basque region. You get a non-secreter Warrior. The physical speciality of the warrior is expressed - then epigenetic phenotype - but so is the non-secretion characteristic of someone who is not specialized and more dependent on specific food a paleolithic person would of adapted too rather than learned to tolerate (by secretion).

P.S.

I heal fast too.


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DoS  -  Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 6:30pm
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DoS
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 6:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Amazone I.
paul...good ideas   and when did the nonniehood appear ..... ....


I believe the question would more likely be when did secreters appear!
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Amazone I.
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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............


MIfHI K-174
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paul clucas
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Quoted from DoS


I believe the question would more likely be when did secreters appear!

If when is determined then what and the complete structure would fall in place.

Not likely to happen, but it would be nice.

My guess is just that: I have not been reading the research available.




My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.
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DoS
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L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
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Can anyone be tested that far back? Paul do you have a background in anthropology or anything I should know about? We could work together on this to some degree if that were the case.

Notes

Being more sensitive could allow you to better read your environment etc, which could be the controller of your existence in less developed societies/lack of society.

Some aversions to carbohydrates makes more sense, especially in anyone that would keep more epigenetical phenotype traits such as Type O explorer. Grains are a modern thing.
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shoulderblade
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 8:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Destroyer of Smiles
I would propose that the RH negative expression came first. It would make more sense to be lacking before having


I would say that in this case it is almost certain that the non-secretor came first but sometimes lacking is the evolutionary move, For example losing the ability to produce Vitamin C. Once all primates could produce their own supply. But some primates, including humans, lost this ability when they lost the gene that built one of the four enzymes that converted glucose to Vitamin C, Also pigmentation. The first humans to leave Africa were almost certainly very dark skinned but eventually fair skinned people appeared as a result of their failure to produce pigment.

It would be interesting to know when the secretor change happend. I suspect at the end of the last ice age when the blood type changes happened. Oddly the bacteria that caused the Bubonic Plague appeared in central Asia about the same time.





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Katsy
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 8:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ribbit
Yes, that's what DH says.  He says, and I quote him as he's standing here, "There are two types of Os in the world.  Most Os are an A mutation.  Some are not."


I wonder if this might explain my husband. I've asked his mom what her blood type is, and she confidently responded "AB". Knowing a bit about genetics, I figured that the one type my husband could *not* be was, naturally, O, since he could only have gotten an A or a B from her. (I haven't asked my FIL, but I would assume based on his diet -- lots of meat -- that he's probably an O, which would, of course, be recessive.) So, imagine my surprise when a blood test showed that my husband is a Type O! I've questioned my MIL, and she's pretty sure that she's an AB, although it has been some time since her blood was tested.

What are the odds that she really could be AB, with my husband having gotten a "mutated A" which is actually an O?


A married to an O with two children, A & O

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against ...spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12
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Katsy
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Quoted from DoS
...the other closests removed from modern man would be Africans ...


I agree with Ribbit here -- be careful, because it was this type of thinking (although I will believe you to mean it completely innocently) that led to Hitler's attempt at exterminating the Jews, those of African descent, and others he thought inferior (i.e., less evolved) than the Aryans.


A married to an O with two children, A & O

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against ...spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12
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Ribbit
Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Keep in mind that positive mutations (those that make us "better") are extremely rare.  Keep in mind that recessive traits traits very rarely pop up as dominant.  So it would actually make more sense that secretors came first (and also the A and B blood types), and the non-secreting mutation occurred somewhere down the line.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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DoS
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Quoted from Ribbit
Keep in mind that positive mutations (those that make us "better") are extremely rare.  Keep in mind that recessive traits traits very rarely pop up as dominant.  So it would actually make more sense that secretors came first (and also the A and B blood types), and the non-secreting mutation occurred somewhere down the line.


Define "better"... You really had better keep it in those quotations. Adaptations to something are beneficial but when compared to previous accounts might be horrible.

Example: Type A paleolithic could run down an animal for a day or two. All the Teachers on this board feel like they have problems with exercise. They might be good farmers but that is the top of it.

To relate that to my other posts about athletics... perhaps non-secreter is also an inheritance of energy usage as well in a more paleolithic way EVEN IF it is hindered by specialty applied through intermingling of genes.

So I strongly disagree with you in this case.

If you were right then humans started out as smart as we could of ever been. Hm hard to wrap the noggin on that one!

Quoted from Katsy


I agree with Ribbit here -- be careful, because it was this type of thinking (although I will believe you to mean it completely innocently) that led to Hitler's attempt at exterminating the Jews, those of African descent, and others he thought inferior (i.e., less evolved) than the Aryans.


If you take that out of context then yeah it could be confused with being derogatory. However you are implying that ancient less developed forms of society are inferior when you place that concept into derogatory. In a lot of countries you would be killed for that still.

I am talking about factual information on time lines. I am not making racial comments. Please think about what you read.

For an example... Africans, African Americans, etc... have less peasantry and other forms of oppression in their history in many ways when compared to Europe that went through Rome, Middle Ages, etc... Their genes are expression better than European ones in general. Do not believe me? Take a look at the Olympics or any professional sport.
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Eric
Thursday, October 1, 2009, 7:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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hah!  I've never even considered that before, about healing faster- When I had my wisdom teeth removed, I was eating "normal" food (pizza... i know, it was high school!) by the next day!  My brothers, probably secretors, all had more problems than I did with surgery.


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Katsy
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Quoted from DoS
If you take that out of context then yeah it could be confused with being derogatory. However you are implying that ancient less developed forms of society are inferior when you place that concept into derogatory. In a lot of countries you would be killed for that still.

I am talking about factual information on time lines. I am not making racial comments. Please think about what you read.  


You originally said, "closests removed from modern man would be Africans ... " -- sounding like Africans are "removed from modern man" which would then mean they are not quite "modern men." I do think about what I read, and I hope you think about what you type. Glad for the clarification.


A married to an O with two children, A & O

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against ...spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12
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paul clucas
Thursday, October 1, 2009, 3:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
Today I was thinking that my health is like a butterfly:

beautiful and radiant, amazing and splendid  
but . .
delicate and fragile and can be damaged (even destroyed) through carelessness.
Truth and beauty are both more when mixed.

Quoted from DoS
I will point out that Native Americans are all secreters.
I assumed NA's were non-secretors, but secretors from a founder effect would line up with other information in Dr. D.'s article.
http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2006/06/08/get-my-drift?blog=24

Quoted from DoS
Can anyone be tested that far back? Paul do you have a background in anthropology or anything I should know about? We could work together on this to some degree if that were the case.
No education, but an interest. Ancient DNA has successfully been removed from the core of intact teeth and "strung out" or duplicated enough for at least some of it to be read. The age limit could depend on the physical context. Think about the "bog people" - ancient bodies almost perfectly preserved! This could lead to archeo-serology, but the signs that are found on the bones could also be useful as found here.
[url=4314]http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2007/11/28/blog-11-28-2007-ar-excluded-middle?blog=24[/url]
Quoted Text
For an example... Africans, African Americans, etc... have less peasantry and other forms of oppression in their history in many ways when compared to Europe that went through Rome, Middle Ages, etc... Their genes are expression better than European ones in general. Do not believe me? Take a look at the Olympics or any professional sport.

Not quite true as far as the history goes; slavery has a history in Africa longer than extensive European contact. In fact the number of Europeans raided and enslaved  and brought back to Africa might very well be a million. Saharan Africans are generally lighter skinned than sub Saharan Africans from the resulting genetic mixing.

Taking Roots as a history lesson is always a temptation; lesson of the evils of slavery must not be forgotten.  The concept that Europeans did the initial enslaving is ,however covering over the truth in the name of compassion for Africans.  The only good thing about the evil of slavery is it's end.  My maternal grandfather is the penultimate in a long line of sailors, some of whom fought and bled to stop the Atlantic traffic in slaves.


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.

Revision History (1 edits)
paul clucas  -  Thursday, October 1, 2009, 3:37pm
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DoS
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I would not categorize slavery and peasantry together. Peasantry implies stronger oddities of agriculture, business, trades, etc... a lot of things that are very removed from native diets.

Slavery does not imply those things, but very well could be a large problem with quantities of food.

Africa I still find interesting especially since agriculture there in large part was only present in the West even though it started out in a belt spanning across it. Now in Europe farms where everywhere.

Eric consider that if non-secreter is much older that if you had a mouth problem then yes you would of been eating a day later... Your brothers however would of not had slurpies or whatever back then.
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RedLilac
Friday, October 2, 2009, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Nonnies came before secretors.    If they got injured by an animal it was important to have their blood clot quickly so they could safely escape.  When viruss came along, then the need for secretors came.


I am B- NON-Sec Explorer; my son is B+ SEC Nomad; my Mother was O+; and my Father was AB-
SWAMI Thanksgiving present 2008
Revised from Arlene B- NonSec to RedLilac on 3/31/06
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DoS
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Quoted from RedLilac
Nonnies came before secretors.    If they got injured by an animal it was important to have their blood clot quickly so they could safely escape.  When viruss came along, then the need for secretors came.


According to Dr. D nonnoies are sometimes immune to a lot of viruses. What I am purposing is changes in diet, changes in plant, changes in location, brought about the need for secretion. Secretion seems to play it's biggest role in protection from lectins, a plant protein. Plants perhaps use lectins like we would use antigens in your fluids, as protection? If so changes in agriculture and global climate changes from pollution and nukes, could trigger lectin changes so that today we have an even stronger need for secretion. That explain more common day much stronger problems being a nonnie, and people not recovery from bad genetic expression as well.
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Mayflowers
Friday, October 2, 2009, 5:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DoS

Further more if Blood Type A is the first known blood type .


I believe it is O that's the first blood type. "Hunter, Gatherer" ring a bell?  

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Ribbit
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Quoted from paul clucas

Not quite true as far as the history goes; slavery has a history in Africa longer than extensive European contact. In fact the number of Europeans raided and enslaved  and brought back to Africa might very well be a million. Saharan Africans are generally lighter skinned than sub Saharan Africans from the resulting genetic mixing.

Taking Roots as a history lesson is always a temptation; lesson of the evils of slavery must not be forgotten.  The concept that Europeans did the initial enslaving is ,however covering over the truth in the name of compassion for Africans.  The only good thing about the evil of slavery is it's end.  My maternal grandfather is the penultimate in a long line of sailors, some of whom fought and bled to stop the Atlantic traffic in slaves.


Thank you, Paul.  Often misunderstood topic.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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DoS
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Quoted from 815


I believe it is O that's the first blood type. "Hunter, Gatherer" ring a bell?  



That was a long time assumption. However Type A has been found in older remains.
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Katsy
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Quoted from DoS
That was a long time assumption. However Type A has been found in older remains.


Not disagreeing with you, but pointing out that even if Type A has been found in older remains, that does not necessarily *prove* that Type A is the oldest. Other remains may yet be found that might be dated older, and another blood type might then be said to be the "oldest" or "most ancient." Yet that would still be not proof, since we do not know with certainty that the remains found are a) truly the oldest that exist; b) even if they are the oldest that exist, that the blood type shown is actually the oldest, or first type; because c) the remains that are found are only the remains of one individual which happened to be preserved, and other individuals just happened not to be preserved -- other individuals who *might* have another blood type.

So, it's a good thing to keep in mind, when looking at evidence, particularly fragmentary evidence such as this (since entire villages were not preserved, but only a single individual as an example), that we're really looking at one small piece of the puzzle, and trying to determine what the whole puzzle looked like. And we may be wrong, when we find 3 pieces of a 1000-piece puzzle and say that we know what the finished product looks like. Just a caveat to keep in mind.


A married to an O with two children, A & O

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against ...spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12
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Lola
Friday, October 2, 2009, 10:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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is type A the original and oldest blood type, or not?
Quoted Text
Dr D
I doubt it. I would more likely believe that the alleles are of equal age, but that phenotypically type O was always more numerous percentage-wise. All three blood types are the result of mutations; however the A and B mutations are more like each other than either is like group O.

The difference between having the gene for type A blood or type B blood is a variation of a mere seven letters out of the total of 1,062 that make up the entire gene. We even know exactly where they differ: letters number 523, 700, 793 and 800. If you are type A blood, you have C,G,C,G in these locations, whereas if you are type B blood you have G,A,A,C there instead. These are called 'point mutations' because they are a simple one-letter misspelling in a gene, unless as in the case of blood type it is a consistent variation, in which case it is called a polymorphism.

The type O gene mutation is even more interesting. It is a 'frame shift mutation'; if you are type O you may be surprised to discover that rather than having a difference of letters, like A
and B, type O is missing one letter, number 258, entirely.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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DoS
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The truth is that it is completely irreverent what type is the oldest, in many respects.

Look at a Type A Basque person or "Explorer". It means nothing in the whole great wide world that they are Type A blood as we know. Fact is the phenotype expression in no way resembles a Teacher or Warrior. That expression there for is ignoring any adaptions to agriculture or whatever you want to bring up.

Even if O is found to be older at some point my point is that we have to look at the phenatical expression instead of the blood type. That is why understanding why non-secretors could populate the world with various blood types instead of just having stillborns every other day is interesting, if they came first.

It might also explain a fair amount of other things. It is largely connected to different situations throughout history that explain the health of many people in specific demographics whether it be origin or genetic.
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Mayflowers
Sunday, October 4, 2009, 12:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Great point Katsy and thanks for the excerpt from Dr. D,   Lola. Fascinating!  
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Golfzilla
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Quoted from jeanb
O nonnie here and I can heal extremely quickly.  Had to get an Achilles repaired on April 15 by mid June I was playing golf, riding a bike and hiking.  My surgeon said at 2 months I was healed like most of his patients at 4 months.

My O son, needed to get his shoulder repaired at the end of August.  He saw the surgeon last week (1 month) and she said he was already at 2.5 months healing.

Never seem to get scratches or scrapes or bruises that need any attention. But my kids and I do scar quite badly but never get infected.  A husband buys polysporin by the bucket as hang nails can even turn on him.

I don't know if it is a result of the diet or of being O's....


jeanb~ you heal quickly because of being a golfer   don't be giving credit to some nonnie thing





If you keep doing what you've always done, and you keep getting what you've aways got, perhaps it's time for a change...
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Wholefoodie
Thursday, December 3, 2009, 1:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Wow, gotta check you nonnies out more often! You got a lot going on in this forum. Interesting reading (or should I say debating?) Anyway, it was quite entertaining.


FIfHI
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VictoriousLiving
Monday, February 8, 2010, 5:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I thought type A explorers were an adaptation from type A teachers b/c of the last glacier maximum?

This is all very interesting - but confusing. I hope we get a break-thru revelation soon!


RH Negative Explorer
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Dr. D
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Quoted Text
Fernando current findings are that Type A is the oldest blood type. Type O is thought to be a mutation.


Current opinion, maybe. However, 'oldest' in this sense is not very meaningful, since most of the human attributes associated with ABO type differ considerably from the lower animals, and even in humans group A doesn't seem to have been all that numerous prior to about 14-17k years ago.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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atticus182
Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 6:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So if type O is a frameshift mutation, I assume it is a frameshift of type A?  Meaning that all letters are identical to type A except the missing letter (as opposed to type B)?

If that is the case then is A a frameshift of O (adding one extra) or the other way around?  Either could be possible, but if O had the most numbers in the population, it would seem A evolved as a frameshift of O, then B evolved from A.

And back to the original topic of this thread... I wonder if non-secretors appear dispersed evenly throughout all populations?  Or do they exist in patchy areas or clusters?
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atticus182
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Quoted from Ribbit


Yes, that's what DH says.  He says, and I quote him as he's standing here, "There are two types of Os in the world.  Most Os are an A mutation.  Some are not."  (I assume those two types of Os would be two different genotypes.)  Dr. D would say there are more than just two, and we see that played out in the GTD.  DH hasn't read the GTD book, he just eats what I put in front of him and says he feels better on the Nomad diet.    I asked DH for more clarification and he said he's already explained it all here before, a long time ago.  I don't know where that is, but I do seem to remember him typing for a long, long, long time one evening a couple of years ago.  


I was just going back reading the early parts of this thread and I thought it was so interesting that you were talking about two types of Os in the world.  I was wondering what do you think is the scientific basis behind that?  I am very curious about this because I think that our blood type has an affect on us that goes way beyond just that particular gene.

I actually had hypothesized that there may be two types of As and 2 types of Bs, while Os would be more similar to other Os and ABs would be more similar to other ABs.   The reason for this would be that blood type has more of an affect on us than simply the antibodies we produce.  Since that seems to be the case, then would someone with the genotype B/B be more "B-like" than someone with the genetype B/o?  Would the homozygous form affect the other gene expressions in a different way than the heterozygous form?  (I'm not talking about antibodies here, but more about the way the alleles affect out other phenotypic characteristics).  So if that were true, would a person who is B/B possibly get more out of the BTD, than one who is B/o?  Furthermore, is there any evidence that heterozygous individuals tend to fall into a certain genotype (ie nomad, teacher, explorer), while homozygous individuals have a higher percentage in other genotype.  There are endless questions along this line... Do B/B people exhibit more of the typical Type B personality traits than do B/o?  


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DoS
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New Thoughts

I am now wondering if secretion is an adaptation as humans began to move away from fermented food and drink which balanced the more "complicated" (these days) intestines of nonnies, and the very low alcohol had the good affects on lungs etc that nonnies now get from alcohol as well. The supplementation before agriculture may of kept the nonnies in circulation and it was not until agriculture, stored food, and less fermentation practices did people secreting more because a huge benefit

I would suspect that nonnies would of disappeared if it was not for a few factors. First they are probably more useful during times of war due to possible healing abilities (discussed in another thread here), extremely affective blood clotting, and high viral immunity rate. All of those factors are highly valuable, and the viral one can be so during other times of plaque etc...

Basque linage

I am starting to think their early isolation, Neanderthal or not (I assume some genetics from them, the evidence is staggering in a correlation sense to some modern things) was what kept them from developing into secreters out of necessity. When grains etc where introduced it was at a higher time of their capability to survive change while also being useful in some of the early examples. If they had been introduced earlier we may of ended up with substantially less non-secreters in the world.

& More

I am going to have to look more at dates etc... this is just an idea of how things could of been more balanced prior. Also humans may of been more specialized to their diets until these changes started.
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battle dwarf
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wow, this is deep. i don't actuly know my secreater status but as an O with alot of native american in me i can gusse i secreat from the statement that all native americans do.   and just so i will throw a wrench in your thinking on fast healling nonies. i heal fast and most of the time i can bruise or cut myself and not even know it untill i happen to hit it again and say "ow were did that happen?" or i see it. witchever comes first. by contrary i have alot of muscle/joint problems that never seem to go away. mostly old damage or overuse or (in the muscle case) an inablity to just relax.


nothing to do? who has that!?
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Lola
Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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or from past potato and wheat ingestion.....nightshades, maybe?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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DoS
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Quoted from Lola
or from past potato and wheat ingestion.....nightshades, maybe?


Wheat was the first widely domesticated crop. It was the introduction to agriculture as we know it.

I think at any time potato's were ingested typically the people's diet was good enough otherwise they were ok, like the Mayan. It was not until people tried to subsist off of them (Ireland) that it became the same problem.

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L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
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Oh and I guess I am not a non-secreter... CRAZY huh?
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