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TJ
Monday, December 17, 2007, 6:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Thanks for the suggestion.  I hope sea salt isn't as strong-tasting as table salt, or I won't be able to drink that concoction.  I mixed 1/4 tsp table salt, 1 tsp lemon juice in 1 c. water, and GAG ME WITH A SPOON! that was nasty.  Maybe I'll just have to suck it up and force it down...

From Dr. Lam's page:
"Food that is high in potassium such as bananas and dried figs can make the adrenals worse and should be avoided."

In that light, should I stop taking my potassium supplement?
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SquarePeg
Monday, December 17, 2007, 6:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI GT4 Explorer 44%; Rh-; iNfP; nonnie?
Ee Dan
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You know I mentioned adrenal fatigue, but that was just a far-fetched supposition on my part.  Is there a reason you're taking potassium?  I'd hate for you to stop taking something you need just because of an off-hand comment I made.

But the next time you need a blood test, discuss whether your level of cortisol should also be tested.  The blood draw should be taken at 8:00am for this, BTW.

Remember, one day at a time, one moment at a time.


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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TJ
Monday, December 17, 2007, 7:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from SquarePeg
Isn't this indicative of a sluggish adrenal gland?  Or I could be confusing this with the habit of putting off things until the last minute, which leads to a panic-stricken effort (with the accompanying rush of adrenaline) to do the thing.


Yes, you did in a roundabout way, but this was regarding Mekan's statement I believe.  I have just seen references to adrenal fatigue in other threads I've read, and when I finally decided to do some reading on it, it made sense as a possibly explanation.

I just came home with a copy of "Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome".  Hopefully it will be enlightening.  Not to mention, it's so much easier to sit and read from a book instead of a computer screen!
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angel
Monday, December 17, 2007, 7:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Drive55,
If you do need s those meds your Bishop from the ward can help with that. The Bishop can refer you to LDS Social Services (if they have it there) , which has a counseling arm for various needs.  
I am originally from the Richmond area. the winters do get dark there as they do here in Utah. I know it really affects me. I have severe adrenal fatigue and my hormones are messed up. When my husband was deployed to Iraq the first time I spent time at the gym and 10-20 mins in a tanning bed at least 4-5 times a week. I was probably more compliant with the BTD than I have been at any other time. I am working on being compliant again and my husband is highly encouraging because he really enjoyed the woman he came home to. I miss the feeling of being very healthy. Hopefully the GTD will help me improve more and confirm some of my observations. It really helped me as I was responsible for everything on the home front (Homeschooling 5 kids, working on my Master, paying the bills and general home maintenance). I think those two things made a huge difference in how I handled everything else. Talk to the Bishop and get some direction from him and take it throught the steps and it will work out fine.

angel


'And some of us would die-so other men can stand up on their feet like men. A great many are going to die for that. They have in the past. They will a hundred years from now-two hundred. God grant there will always be men good enough.(James Otis)' Johnny Tremain (Forbes)

Freedom is not free!
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TJ
Monday, December 17, 2007, 7:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from SquarePeg
Is there a reason you're taking potassium?  I'd hate for you to stop taking something you need just because of an off-hand comment I made.


It's part of the nerve health and fatigue-fighting protocols.

Quoted from SquarePeg
But the next time you need a blood test, discuss whether your level of cortisol should also be tested.  The blood draw should be taken at 8:00am for this, BTW.


Dr. Lam recommends a saliva test for the cortisol level:

"The best way to test your adrenal health is to measure your level of free key adrenal hormones such as cortisol and DHEA.  Saliva testing is preferred as it measures the amount of free and circulating hormones instead of the binded hormone commonly measured in blood test."

Angel,

I have been getting a lot of help from my bishop, but I'm hesitant to ask for more.  He's a very conventional fellow, and I think he's not entirely convinced that there is anything wrong with me.  But I will consider it.  Getting tested for adrenal fatigue is out of my financial reach right now, but it seems to be a strong explanation for several aspects of my condition, so getting tested for it seems like a wise choice.
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Whimsical
Monday, December 17, 2007, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from TJ
My blood pressure needs to come up some.  I have the classic cold hands and feet, and whenever I measure my blood pressure it's typically 110-120 over 60-80.  I am already supplementing my magnesium, calcium, and potassium, so it makes sense to me.


I have to disagree with this - your current blood pressure is very healthy and is not too low!  120/80 is now (under new guidelines) considered the UPPER LIMIT for healthy blood pressure.  90/60 is considered hypotension, but is still not treated (at least in NA) unless there are concomitant symptoms.  

Cold hands & feet is another issue and could be due to so many things.  Off the top of my head, you could try improving your circulation with daily alternating hot/cold showers (approx 2 min hot water, then 30s max cold water, repeat 2-3 times in the shower).  You could also look into Traditional Chinese Medicine theories of Yin & Yang.  Going off your posts to this forum, it seems that you may have a Yang deficiency.  This would leave Yin unbalanced by Yang and therefore excess - see depression, heaviness, introversion, etc.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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OSuzanna
Monday, December 17, 2007, 8:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I suffered from cold hands & feet my whole life, and when I went BTD, they reduced by maybe 90%, along with my sensitivity to cold. My blood pressure, a lifelong 90/58, had crept up into the 'teens like 113-120. Again, BTD normalized it at around 90-102 over 60. BTD keeps my bp in line, and the cold extremities behaving.   Maybe something here can help.


OSuzanna
A Before Picture , In the Process of Becoming an After Picture
FOOD for THOUGHT, Super Beneficial 4 All Blood Types!
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TJ
Monday, December 17, 2007, 8:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from roller56
You can find the unbleached "grey" seasalt at www.celtic-seasalt. com. or www.wildernessfamily naturals.


Will the package say "unbleached", or do I just stay away from the stuff that says it's bleached?

Also, as I was sipping this nasty cup of salt water, it occurred to me that some of the nasty flavor could come from the iodine.  If so, that un-iodized sea salt will be a welcome improvement.
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honeybee
Monday, December 17, 2007, 8:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ


Will the package say "unbleached", or do I just stay away from the stuff that says it's bleached?

Also, as I was sipping this nasty cup of salt water, it occurred to me that some of the nasty flavor could come from the iodine.  If so, that un-iodized sea salt will be a welcome improvement.


yes - there are lots of threads about the benefits of sea salts as table salt can have iodine (and even corn in it to stop it sticking and make it pour easlily.) Sea salt is big flaky tasty salts, some people add a little to their water also.. search the forum for this popular thread / topic
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Victoria
Monday, December 17, 2007, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am currently using Himalayan Crystal Salt.  I mix up what is called a Sole' (solay).  It is a saturated salt solution made by putting a good sized scoop of natural, unbleached, evaporation-dried sea salt into a quart jar.  Add pure water (filtered or spring water) to fill about 3/4 full.  If all the salt dissolves, add more salt and stir.  Keep this up until the salt no longer dissolves.  You have reached saturation.

In the morning, I take 1 tsp of this sole' and mix into 8 oz. of filtered water, and drink on an empty stomach.  It supplies a complex array of minerals and electrolytes to the cells.  Table salt does not work for this purpose because it is a highly refined and processed substance that provides sodium and not much else.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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TJ
Monday, December 17, 2007, 10:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ok, I'm sold.  I will go out and find myself some sea salt.  I'm sure I will find it at Ukrop's, The Vitamin Shoppe, or Good Foods.  The next question then, is, how do you get iodine if you don't eat iodized salt or seaweed?
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honeybee
Monday, December 17, 2007, 11:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from TJ
Ok, I'm sold.  I will go out and find myself some sea salt.  I'm sure I will find it at Ukrop's, The Vitamin Shoppe, or Good Foods.  The next question then, is, how do you get iodine if you don't eat iodized salt or seaweed?


have a look at this on another thread by ABJoe on iodine-
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1196952704/s-7/highlight-iodine/#num7
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TJ
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 12:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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I think I was right, this sea salt is better tasting stuff.

In the meantime, now I've got more stress from dad.  I just got off the phone with him, and he still seems to think that there's nothing wrong with me, that this is all in my head.  Even after all these years!  I can hardly believe my father would be this ignorant.  The first he said about this opinion was within the last few months, so I wonder if he's been keeping it to himself, or if he's just recently developed it.

If I understand him correctly, he thinks that I'm just giving up on every job I ever get because I don't like it.  "You need to find yourself a trade and stick with it."  He preaches to me about just putting up with things I don't like, and how all the hard work he did when he was young made him tough--then admitting on the other side of his mouth how bad his health is.  Can't he hear the hypocrisy?  Can he understand that I'm not the same as him?

I am amazed that he could contemplate all the years of bad health I've been through, and decide that I'm just a spineless quitter, instead of accepting the obvious conclusion that there really is something wrong.  And it really hurts, to know that's what dad thinks of you.
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Curious
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 12:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
The next question then, is, how do you get iodine if you don't eat iodized salt or seaweed?

Have you ever tried some seaweed? Nori is easy to eat and you could add some wakame, dulse or arame to your vegetables. It is very good for a low thyroid which often goes hand in hand with adrenal fatigue. It could be worth trying.
Sorry to hear about your dad. It is sad if the people we love don't support us.

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Lola
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 1:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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drive55,
try getting to read or see 'the secret'......so much will fall into place for you!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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jayneeo
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 1:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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drive55, your dad is trying to help you in his own way....but its still hard to take!
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roller56
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 2:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Driver55,

Victoria is right about the Himalayan Crystal Salt.  I completely forgot about it.  Also, when ever you can afford to get the saliva testing, check out http://www.canaryclub.org where there is testing.  You may have to join, which is free, so you can look at other testing done there.  There are other labs for saliva testing and as soon as I can remember  them i will let you know.


roller56
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Ribbit
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 36
I laughed when I read your reaction to salt water, as it's the same reaction I get from my husband!  "That's disgusting.  How could you drink that?  It's salty!"  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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OSuzanna
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 3:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I cook with sea salt, it's so much better, you get spoiled.

Your parent(s) cannot be counted on to come around and see things your way. My mother was like, here she goes again when I started BTD, but as she saw the dramatic changes in my overall health, skintone and even, she claims, my personality(!), she realized there must be some fire making all that smoke!! My dad, who could benefit hugely from the diet, doesn't want to hear it. I think your dad means well, but he's tethered by his ways of thinking. Sometimes we just can't break through those walls...
Take comfort in the positive things as you can...


OSuzanna
A Before Picture , In the Process of Becoming an After Picture
FOOD for THOUGHT, Super Beneficial 4 All Blood Types!
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Ribbit
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 3:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
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Drive55,

This is Ribbit's Husband. I am like you in many, many ways. So much like you that it is scary to read your posts.

I had the same reaction at the early stages of the BTD, and the same return of the pre-BTD malaise after a couple of months. I have had to do some significant tweaking of my diet, using the BTD as a general guide but eliminating additional foods that might be BTD-safe for a B (probably non-secretor) like myself.

I laughed at you suddenly quitting your job. I think I am on my fourth career (maybe fifth!) and I am only 39 years old. I ran away from a high school teaching job to go to grad school. While there, I would sit in my office for hours, sitting in my chair in a semi-fetal position, with fists, then suddenly weke up and work at the three different jobs [only one of which was paying] that I did. I ran away from my degree and got a job in a totally different field when I was finished. My current occupation looks like is going to stick: I enjoy it, I am good at it, I get to use my degree, and I am no longer depressed about life in general. I have no reason, and no desire, to jump ship AGAIN. I am no longer running from the dark shadow that was always looming over me, seeking to swallow me into its oblivion.

Stay off the antidepressants! They will make you not want to fix your real problems. You will just go in circles.

I know about wanting to crawl into caves. In fact, I have often wanted a very dark and quiet place to disappear into. Sometimes the best I could do was find a pillow, pull it over my head, and try desperately to filter out my kids, my wife, and my life.

Let me tell you the one thing that has helped me more than any other: Emergen-C "Electro Mix" (in the green package - it has no sugar, unlike their other products - just an electrolyte solution). Sadly, the producers of this fine product have started to add tapioca maltodextrin and stevia [avoids for me]). But, the new ingredients do not seem to bother me any. It is the MAGNESIUM that I need. I split up one package and add it to my drink at each meal, every day. Doesn't take much if I take it regularly. Don't know why, but magnesium stops the "run-away-and-hide" reaction and puts me back on my feet - sometimes instantly. There are other products out there that I am experimenting with - Peter Gilliams' "CALM" (magnesium salts)(just the magnesium, the cal-mag does not seem to work as well, but I'm still experimenting).

After that, my list of avoids is long: corn, wheat (and all gluten), milk (not cheese, as far as I can tell), SOY! (makes me angry just to type the stupid word. grrrr.), chicken, all sweeteners (real and artificial), all sorts of sticky things (tapioca, and kind of 'gum,' etc.), carbs in general (gotta go light on carbs, but keep a balance), peanuts, maybe almonds...

If I eat an avoid, get off balance with my carbs, or if I don't get enough magnesium, I freak out, just like you. No, you are not 'conditioned to panic and run.' You are probably going through the same reaction-thing that I go through. I cannot explain it. My PhD-in-genetics-mind cannot figure it out. There is no way that the BTD should work (I am a skeptic at heart), but it sure does, with the modification I explained above.

The BTD helped at first because you removed some significant avoids from your diet. It is no longer working (as well?) because there are still some things that you have yet to figure out. This seems to be a common story and is something else that I cannot explain. Going through a significant life-change seems to work also? Becase you live on adrenaline. When the novelty wears off, the old black cloud come back, does it not? Stick with it! Keep experimenting! Go super-BTD. Watch the carbs? Get plenty of magnesium? Remove more potential problem foods? Get enough exercise? (one other interesting feature of my life on the BTD: I no longer feel like I have to "move or die." This has killed my desire for exercise and pretty ended my occasional morning run, but I cannot say that this is a bad thing since I feel so good in general.)

When I quit my last-last job (cubicle hell), I moved my family to a different city and took a job as a handyman, working with a friend of mine. It was wonderful - lots of fresh air, moving all day long, always something new, one or two projects per day. That was what I needed to get my head on straight and it served as something that I could use to feed my family while I waited for something better (my current job). Handyman work might be hard to find during the current housing slump, but take a job where you have to move - you will feel alive so who cares what exactly it is!

The vicious cycle has an end. You just have to find the way out. Stick with it. My out was the BTD, plus.

- Ribbit's husband.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Lola
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 4:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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thanks for sharing!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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TJ
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 1:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
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Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Dear Ribbit's husband (lol),

Thank you so much for your story.  It is good to know that I'm not the only one who's suffered this variety of insanity!  Fortunately, I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now, even though it is occasionally obscured.  I will have to reread your advice, since your experience has been so similar to mine!

I like how you worked as a handyman, I have started doing a little of the same.  I have only had one job so far, but another one lined up.  Also I've done a bit of construction work with a friend of mine who is understanding of my need to pace myself.

I don't think I will need to go back to the meds.  That was a little panic that incited the desire, but it's past now.

Everybody,

I picked up a bag of Redmond RealSalt last night.  It does have iodine in it too, but less than 1/4 of the amount in table salt.  This stuff isn't evaporated sea water, it's mined from an ancient sea bed in Redmond, UT, and it's got a pinkish color to it.  But it is good!  And it has several trace minerals too.

I have read some of the book "Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome", and it seems like a viable explanation, combined with my HSP status.  HSP = highly vunerable to stress =  highly vulnerable to adrenal fatigue.  It explains a lot of what I've experienced.  I think that I'm recovering now, which is good news.  I just need to keep on recovering, and pace myself when I do get back to work.

It's funny how a new day can open your eyes.  Thinking this morning about what my dad said has shed new light on the subject.  The first time I heard this opinion from him was the last time I asked him for money, and last night I was calling him back to see if he had decided if would be ok if I moved in with him for a short spell (I was thinking about a month) as a sort of relaunch point, since he lives close to a city I'm considering moving to.  (Both of these requests of course would cost him a little bit of money.) The last time I asked for money before this most recent time was a few years ago, before he was remarried....

Also, I want to express my gratitude to all you who have contributed in any way to this thread.  Your advice and emotional support have been precious to me.  I'm so glad I found the BTD and all the online friends that come with it!
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Lola
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 4:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 50,675
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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honeybee
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 8:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

INTJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,033
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Location: au
I hope yr dad lets u move back home- to relaunch yourself, that is what I did too, at 28 lol!

A new place to live and explore helps us whose lives are not making sense or even if we just have that sniggling sense that there must be more to it than what we are currently doing / feeling etc. ie. not ready to 'settle'..

Ribbits husband, your story is great

forgot to mention I just found my own place to lease, after 6 months of searching! a nice old cottage with lovely worn dark floorboards, high ceilings, its fantastic, has a lovely private garden and vege patch already going, it backs onto a golfcourse which overlooks the beach i grew up on. I love living near the ocean. It is strange to be moving back to where I grew up and actually feel excited about it, it is a pretty quiet place, I work down the road in a small office, and no cities or anything (but only 2hrs from the city- which is close enough!)

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honeybee  -  Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 8:43pm
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SquarePeg
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 8:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI GT4 Explorer 44%; Rh-; iNfP; nonnie?
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,362
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Quoted from Ribbit
This is Ribbit's Husband. --snip--

It is the MAGNESIUM that I need. I split up one package and add it to my drink at each meal, every day. Doesn't take much if I take it regularly. Don't know why, but magnesium stops the "run-away-and-hide" reaction and puts me back on my feet - sometimes instantly. There are other products out there that I am experimenting with - Peter Gilliams' "CALM" (magnesium salts)(just the magnesium, the cal-mag does not seem to work as well, but I'm still experimenting).
Have you tried taking Epsom Salt baths?  Seriously.

Also, thanks for taking time to post!



My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.

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