Quoted from 1879

But, no matter. I am beginning to think I am not really an ENTJ, but an ISTJ or an ESTJ -- at least at the moment. I'm a particularly open-minded S, as I realize new ideas are great since they eventually will have practical applications. However, I am not in love with ideas for ideas' sake. The E vs. I is more debatable, though.

Funny, the only axis I'm 100% sure of is that I'm an N.  Next, I'd say I'm strongly leaning toward P over J, what with excessive structure causing anxiety for me.  But then, N's express P/J a little differently than S's.  I have bounced back and forth between F and T from first learning about this system.  Currently I'm favoring F, but two months ago I was favoring T.  I think I'm an F with an unusually well-developed T function.  I and E are roughly the same story as F and T: I enjoy "extroverting", and sometimes it does charge me up, but more often it's draining.  What can I say, it's an imperfect system at best.  Throw in my HSP and nonnie status, and that just whacks out everything!

Isa, thanks for that info on supplements.  I am already doing part of what you suggest.  1x500mg l-arginine, 1x648mg Siberian ginseng, and 1-2x250mg magnesium per day (among others).  I think in light of this recent experience that the most important thing for me is stress management.  I am very sensitive to stress and anxiety, and when I'm over my threshold it wears me down very quickly.  I've got to learn to recognize when my stress starts building, and make a conscious effort to stop that  process before it gets out of hand.

Quoted from OSuzanna

Sounds like something I used to have. I fed it crickets.

OK, I met an ESTJ at work today, and I am not really much of an extrovert at all. ISTJ it is.

Isa, I wonder what Riso makes of the ENFP? #2....#7?    9?

Quoted from jayneeo

Isa, I wonder what Riso makes of the ENFP? #2....#7?    9?

You might find this link interesting.

geekchic, thanx for sharing will have a bigger look into that


yesss it depends what is our real groundtype (better said our prefered approach to deal with the world) I observed that when ENFP/J goes to its desintegrative way it goes to 5 and becomes very dangerous for him/her and the rest of the world
but then please remember that WE ARE the WHOLe enneagram...we do have patterns from all types but do have one prefered type & and
edge from a neighour ; .......
the enneagram shows us quickest up what might happen when (if)....... I'd recommend for all interested the book *giftsdiffering* from Briggs Myers, here she explains what might happen when types are not that well developed and how it works and how it can be realized.....
I will do an example: 8(ENFP/J) goes to 2 (ESFP/J)...goes to 4 infp/j....goes to 1 ENTP/J......goes to 7 ESTP/J....goes to 5
intp/j....arrives at last to its hometown the 8 ENFP/J
but this might be working over years and then you are able to play that game instantly......
the inverse way normally stops when not that heavy in its first meeting and tries to get regulated by itself....if that isn't possible.....we have to cope with the adequate medications .....
The exception her are the triangle 3-6-9....it only goes 9-6
might also have traits of the 3 in its negativest forms....but here the way of integration is (seems) much shorter but is muchmore heavier coz it comes likewise a hammer.....I saw this on my ex-boyfriend when he merged into another direction, mostly of the time he was forced to lay down coz of heaviest
panicattacs & mental trouble (about an hour or two......)

thanks, geekchik and Isa......the link of the Riso info shows ENFP as either 2 or 7, as I guessed, while the 8 is not an F but a T.....
enneagram is one of my obsessions, but barely know the MB....

jayneeo ...wew....Riso's enneagram is one of my passions as well it is amazing when we can observe how and where someones just  jumps into.....

It's so interesting that people here are interested in MBTI and the Enneagram. When I mention it to people I know, they're usually like  . Isa, I get that you are explaining the rule of 7 and the rule of 3 when it comes to disintegration...but I don't follow the corresponding pattern shift in the MBTI types. I'm going to check out Gifts Differing from my library and figure it out. Thanks for the reference.

I think the people who gravitate towards the BTD and the MBTI are basically people who are smart enough to realize the importance of discovering the patterns and order, from within seeming chaos.

Quoted from 521

... discovering the patterns and order, from within seeming chaos.

Isn't that a Taoist saying, something about starting from chaos and ending in creativity/order or something...?

the body-mind-soul-connection IS harmony in itself when chaos is created from outwards, so this system is able to re-creat itself...but our build up EGO is sometimes ...... and the biggest danger her is that we do believe that this pic...showes our selfs
and then problems are appearing.... the Riso enneagram shows up how our Egos are build in our youth  and he gives us the key to enter it and to change it!!! This is one with Briggs Myers books giftsdifferings which is a real and honest eyeopener...even if we feel a bit trapped

geekchic, if you want and if you aren't afraid of my pidginings, so I wrote about the patterns and the enneagram in english language... in the archive it's to be found ...no problems here, it seems that the author wrotet better than me   

Quoted from Amazone I.

geekchic, if you want and if you aren't afraid of my pidginings, so I wrote about the patterns and the enneagram in english language... in the archive it's to be found ...no problems here, it seems that the author wrotet better than me   

I've read them already, but I don't think they answered my questions about (dis)integration and changes in Myers-Briggs type.

hmmm I think it is one of the replies  

Quoted from Amazone I.

hmmm I think it is one of the replies  

Your reply in this thread regarding the changes in 1 particular type did not answer any of my questions. I don't know how that generalizes to all types or even just my type.

I have been doing a bit of reading on adrenal fatigue

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-encloplib/m-1167170022/s-0/
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm

and that looks suspiciously like some of my experiences, and makes a lot of sense.  I've read some of Dr. Lam's page, but I'm hesitant to completely trust the info there because it appears that he is trying to sell a product.  I will have to read the "adrenal fatigue" thread to get more trustworthy information!

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-Suggest/m-1167308914/
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=encloplib,m=1165756772
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=encloplib,m=1164390423
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=encloplib,m=1163087851

Ah, judging from all the references to Dr. Lam's website, I'm going to say that he's spot-on?  If y'all think he's telling it like it is, not just promoting his product, I will happily take your words for it!

Dr. Lam's page on Adrenal Fatigue opened my eyes to another level of my own healing.  I don't really know what he is selling because I didn't read that part.  His words are in agreement with the wonderful book, Adrenal Fatigue: A 21st Century Health Syndrom, which I checked out from our library.  I don't remember the author.

Quoted from Victoria

... the wonderful book, Adrenal Fatigue: A 21st Century Health Syndrom, which I checked out from our library.  I don't remember the author.

The author is James L. Wilson - it is the best book I have read on adrenal fatigue.

hmmm I thought that merely A's and B's are concerned with ellevated cortisollevels in case of stress .....
and that the question of adrenal fatigue is merely the concern of the axis *hypophyse-thyroide-adrenals* the so called *burnout-syndrome*.......confounded often with depression....but here the O's are the worldmaischda for that issue...no

btw. I am sure that this might touch everybody of us ...

here s where the GTD will define which type of people fall into this category!!

Truly, the more I think about it, the more I think this "adrenal fatigue" business is the best explanation for my chronic depression and fatigue.  Perhaps it even explains the issue I had that prompted me to post this topic in the first place!

Here is my theory.  I started BTD, removing lots of toxins from my diet.  My adrenal glands celebrate by partially recovering from their exhausted state much more quickly than usual, causing me to start feeling great!  While feeling great, I naturally go out and overextend myself, just like I do every time I start feeling great again after an extended episode of illness.

So now the challenge is to let myself recover--completely.  I have decided to retire to bed no later than 10 pm, according to Dr. Lam's advice, and to let myself sleep as long as I can.  I'm not in the habit of going to bed that early on a regular basis, so I'm taking melatonin around 9:30 pm (2-3 x 300 mcg tablets) so that I will actually be able to fall asleep.  I figure that might take some load off my glands, too, since they won't have to produce as much melatonin on their own.  Ideally, I won't have to keep taking it indefinitely because I'll get used to going to bed at that time.

I am also making a conscious effort to increase my sodium intake.  My blood pressure needs to come up some.  I have the classic cold hands and feet, and whenever I measure my blood pressure it's typically 110-120 over 60-80.  I am already supplementing my magnesium, calcium, and potassium, so it makes sense to me.

Quoted Text

While feeling great, I naturally go out and overextend myself, just like I do every time I start feeling great again after an extended episode of illness.

we learn as we walk!

Drive, if you can find some gray (unbleached) sea salt, it's a great addition to your morning feeding routine.  I was using 1/2-1 tsp. of regular sea salt in warm lemon water in the morning until I found unbleached sea salt.  The flavor is so warm and rich and balanced that when I make lentil soup I barely have to use any other seasonings.  It's delicious and does good things for adrenals.

Almost everything you have posted here is my B husband exactly.  I'd like to him to read this thread and post suggestions job-wise he's discovered.

You can find the unbleached "grey" seasalt at www.celtic-seasalt. com. or www.wildernessfamily naturals.