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BTD is helping but not enough  This thread currently has 6,498 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 8:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from honeybee
I hope yr dad lets u move back home- to relaunch yourself, that is what I did too, at 28 lol!


I did that, too, back in 2002, at my mother's house.  Stayed there 5 months.  It was a very healing time, and I became much closer to my mother, having grown apart from her after my parents' divorce.

I don't think I want to move in with dad after all; I suspect that would be an emotionally toxic environment for me.  His wife is a very judgmental woman, and it wouldn't be long before any healing I did there was destroyed by her sniping.  I thought she was understanding of my situation, but the fact the dad's attitude has recently turned skeptical on me, strongly suggests that she isn't (he also made an uncharacteristic and mean comment about mom on the same phone call).  I've seen her at work, and she is a master manipulator and guilt-tripper.  On the other hand, I am a master of recognizing such pretentiousness  and calling you out on it when you try that kind of c**p on me, so you can imagine what a serene, peaceful place dad's house will be within a week of me moving in.  Oh, the drama....
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Mekan
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I really don't know you well enough to offer sound advice, but I ask that you remember this as you choose.  Depending on your state and your need, there is nothing better for us than making our own way.  Sometimes a rest in safe harbor is needed and sometimes it is walking with a crutch when you need to walk with a limp for a bit.  Only you know what you need.  
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Amazone I.
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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ribby hubby & drive 55 I think your real problem is not the i part, but that you've got converted from E to I..... normally the ENFP's /J do might quit their jobs....like that
I am interested what you both scored really in your E and or I-parts (%)
thanx for your kind eyeopener ......


MIfHI K-174
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TJ
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 11:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ah hah!  Here is some support for the idea of a significant connection between HSP and adrenal fatigue:
http://www.anxiety-and-depression-solutions.com/wellness_concerns/community_anxiety/041105_HSP2.php

Quoted from Amazone I.
drive 55 I think your real problem is not the i part, but that you've got converted from E to I..... normally the ENFP's /J do might quit their jobs....like that I am interested what you both scored really in your E and or I-parts


I am not really sure if I qualify as an I or E.  I think I'm leaning I right now because I enjoy my alone time so much.  Like I said in an earlier post (or was it on another thread?), I enjoy extroverting, but it wears me out!  I do relate in some ways very strongly to the "Champion" description of ENFP, so you could be right.  Personally, I think it's the HSP thing: most jobs I've ever had have been Drudgery from the start, or have become Drudgery very quickly.  Once that happens, I begin experiencing something one step away from physical pain at having to deal with the job.

Quoted from 1750
Depending on your state and your need, there is nothing better for us than making our own way.  Sometimes a rest in safe harbor is needed and sometimes it is walking with a crutch when you need to walk with a limp for a bit.


Ain't that the truth!  I'd love some safe harbor, but I doubt I'll get it at dad's, and mom doesn't have room for me.  I am still considering applying for SSI disability, that my be the closest thing I can find.   One thing is for absolute certain, I need a safe place and the time to heal, where I can venture out at my own pace, and I'm still at a loss what to do.  It's obvious I've made progress, but being busy today also made it obvious that I've got a lot farther to go.
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honeybee
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 11:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
Hi there!  
  Eat as high a percentage as possible of beneficials.

(snip snip)

Try and stay calm and realize that solutions will emerge.  Before you go to bed at night, think or write down a list of the things you would like to see happen, and how you would like your career life to look and feel, and what you would like to do.  Don't censor what you write.  This is just planting seeds of positive desires.  Try to stop focusing on what you have not been happy with.  Every night pull out your list, or bring it up on the computer and write about what you do want.  This is one way of clearing the air for yourself and finding out what you are really wanting.  Do this every day for a couple of weeks, or longer.  The practice will help you know yourself more.


I still really love this advice from Victoria..ties in well with  grappling for that visualisation technique us B's are meant to be so good with something I must remember to keep dipping toes into..
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Curious
Thursday, December 20, 2007, 1:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Ah hah!  Here is some support for the idea of a significant connection between HSP and adrenal fatigue:
http://www.anxiety-and-depression-solutions.com/wellness_concerns/community_anxiety/041105_HSP2.php

That's a very interesting link, thanks for posting it, drive. I read through it last night and it makes a lot of sense.

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Amazone I.
Thursday, December 20, 2007, 10:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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drive 55 I think it's a fine thing to be capable to *see* and live both sides ...I and E and I do feel you merely in the E-side and perhaps now
you got muchmore sensitive to several situations, so far I do understand how you hate dependencies
I am sure that you are going to make your life as most enjoyable you can ...... felicitations you are on the right track !!


MIfHI K-174
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Ribbit
Thursday, December 20, 2007, 6:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, I believe my  husband swings between E and I.  He loves to extrovert also, but it exhausts him (and his family suffers for it!).  Part of his job requires him to speak to crowds of sometimes several hundred, and when he's doing it, and afterwords, chatting to listeners, he's in his element.  He's wired and excited and talkative, but then as soon as he gets home, it takes him sometimes a couple of days to recover.  He withdraws and is touchy and sulky.  Completely different from "normal."  It was rather shocking after we got married to see the difference.  I thought it was just me, that after we were married, maybe he thought I was too boring to talk to anymore.  But now I realize he struggles with energy management , and he just needs me to feed him beneficial foods to keep his body.  He's also a genius, which means his brain keeps going and going and never stops, even if his body has to quit.  He's a visionary, like I expect you are, Drive.  He has great ideas but has a little trouble putting the actions with the words.  He works best in an environment where he doesn't have to sit still, he can bat around neat scientific ideas with people all day, do a little writing, a little research, a lot of talking, and gets paid for it!


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Friday, December 21, 2007, 12:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Ribbit
Yes, I believe my  husband swings between E and I.  He loves to extrovert also, but it exhausts him (and his family suffers for it!).  Part of his job requires him to speak to crowds of sometimes several hundred, and when he's doing it, and afterwords, chatting to listeners, he's in his element.  He's wired and excited and talkative, but then as soon as he gets home, it takes him sometimes a couple of days to recover.  He withdraws and is touchy and sulky.  Completely different from "normal."


That does sound like a well socially-developed I to me.  My understanding is the the I/E axis is the "energizing" function.  E's get energizing by big crowds and human interaction.  I's can still can enjoy being outgoing, but it costs them a lot more.  (These are archetypal characterizations of course.)

Quoted from Ribbit
He's a visionary, like I expect you are, Drive.  He has great ideas but has a little trouble putting the actions with the words.  He works best in an environment where he doesn't have to sit still, he can bat around neat scientific ideas with people all day, do a little writing, a little research, a lot of talking, and gets paid for it!


Sounds like an _NT_ to me!  I can identify, and it's also a bit flattering to be compared with a genius!

So now I have another challenge before me: I'm in NC with family, and as much as I love them, I have to find time for peace and quiet to recharge from time to time, which is much harder to do away from home.  But it will be worth it to be with them over the holiday!
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Ribbit
Friday, December 21, 2007, 1:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Well, here's what I did over Thanksgiving with my husband's family.  When I started feeling like I wanted to either smack a sister-in-law for asking for the 200th time why we're homeschooling, or yell for my inherited neice to quit teaching my son bad words, or sock a brother-in-law for trying to force my daughter to give him a kiss on the cheek (the jerk--it makes her uncomfortable, as well it should, and she says NO, and he still grabs her and tries to force her) (I probably will end up socking him one of these days if my husband doesn't do it first--you can bet I keep a close eye on him)---I just gather my children together and we go on a walk, just to take a break from the noise.  We get to regroup, smile at each other, spend a few quite minutes talking about differing lifestyles, and then we go back.  But we do this a couple of times a day.  Just get away from everybody for a little while and breathe.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Thursday, December 27, 2007, 10:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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[big sigh of relief]

I got back to Richmond yesterday, after spending 6 days away (left here Thursday last week).  I'm surprised at how well I coped.  After arriving at mom's house Thursday, we drove across the state to visit my youngest brother on Friday, and stayed there until Sunday afternoon.  His wife is also a rather sensitive person herself, and I was excited to talk to her about all I've learned.  The biggest things that bothered me there were his psycho cat (I am not a cat-lover, and I'm mildly allergic to them, or at least I used to be...), and my step-father's ongoing commentary about my dietary habits.  The comments stopped after returning, but mom has a cat too .  In spite of that, I slept well at her house, and told her that I think my body had finally gotten the picture that I was serious about going to bed by 10 pm; now my eyes are getting heavy at 9!  Yet somehow, I couldn't get to sleep last night, and had to get back up....  

My mother is a calm and quiet woman, and so is her home, and that was a life-saver, but I still had some big, traumatic sort of stress at dad's house.  Unfortunately, it was self-induced.  I have been hearing my step-mother's negative commentary for a few years now about my above-mentioned brother (and also wondered what she says about me when I'm not around), and after hearing a few remarks this time I blew up at her!  It was certainly not the way I had planned on speaking to her about this concern of mine, but that's how it happened.  I was so upset that I was trembling all over, inside and out.  She was also very upset, and I felt bad about ever saying anything, so I went back a few days later and apologized for everything.  I still think what I thought before (if a little less solidly), but speaking up that way was inappropriate, and confronting her isn't likely to change anything anyway--she just denied everything I said, and I'm sure she's convinced that she has done nothing wrong--so I was sincerely sorry that I spoke up, even if I wasn't apologetic for what I thought.  All it accomplished was making a scene and possibly alienating part of my family , and putting another big, unnecessary load on my adrenal glands.  Just another lesson learned, I guess.

Edited to normalize font size.

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TJ  -  Friday, December 28, 2007, 3:12pm
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Ribbit
Friday, December 28, 2007, 4:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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You're such a B.   Hey-I wonder if HSPs are paranoid in general?


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Friday, December 28, 2007, 3:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I bet we are more prone to that: since we are so much more sensitive to others' thoughts and feelings, I guess we are more likely to notice when someone has it in for us.  On the other hand, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you!
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Ribbit
Friday, December 28, 2007, 4:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ha. That's what I say when my fam calls me paranoid.  At the same time, though, and this is something I don't get at all, I'm so trusting toward some people that it always surprises me that they can be so mean!  I get hurt and can't figure out why.  Because I'm sensitive?  But with other people, I know immediately they're bad news and when they do something weird it's not a surprise at all--I doubted them from the first.  My brothers think I have a mental condition. (No, that would be my mother, who they say I'm like, but my husband says, "No, if you were like her I wouldn't have married you.")  I think I'm just an HSP.

Talk about paranoia.  My mother tells the story about her mother, my grandmother.  

My grandmother called my mom one day and said, "Hon, I've got something on my mind that's really worrying me."
"What's that, Mama?"
"Well, there's a block of cheese in my refrigerator that I distinctly remember putting in my freezer when I got it home from the store last week."
"Well, Mama, you must have moved it and forgotten you did it."
"No, no, now if I'd moved it I would remember it."
"Well, if you didn't move it, who do you think did?"
"That's just what's worrying me.  Who really did it?"
"Well?  Who else has been in the house?"
"Oh, there hasn't been anybody here at all except me and the little dog, you know."
"Sooo?" *sigh*
"But I've been thinking and thinking, and the only think I could come up with was a man in the grocery store."
"What?"
"Well, there was a man in the grocery store behind me and he was one of them Japs [you have to understand, my grandfather fought in the trenches during WWII], and I just know he must have looked over my shoulder while I was writing the check and he must have memorized my address and broken in during the night."
"But, Mama, how would he have gotten past the dog and the security system you paid a lot of money for?"
"I don't know, Hon, and I can't imagine why I didn't wake up.  He must have done something to turn the security system off."
"But, Mama, there wasn't any sign of a break-in.  Your door was still locked in the morning, no windows were broken..."
"I sure don't know.  But you can't trust them---"
"Mama, think about this.  Why in the world would anybody break into your house, hijack the alarm system and move cheese from your freezer to your refrigerator and then lock the door and reset the alarm on their way back out?"
"I just can't understand it, but they must have done it.  I can't believe I slept through it...."

So my mom hung up the phone and told us this, and we took turns being concerned and chuckling.  

"Mama," I said.  "She's getting old."  
"Oh, no, honey.  She's always been like this, even when we were little.  It's just about different things now."

But what the rest of us were most concerned about, and chuckling about, was the fact that my mother's the same way, just to a lesser degree.

So when my brothers accused me of being just like them, I was really worried, for years and years, that I might be just like them as I got older.  But I will tell you one thing that has set my mind at ease more than anything else in the world.  It's something my brothers don't understand and don't believe.  The fact that they're both Os and I'm an A!!!!!  Broooo-hahahahahahaha.  I won't get what they've got!!!!!


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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jayneeo
Friday, December 28, 2007, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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well what do they have? Being an O isn't so bad.....
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Ribbit
Friday, December 28, 2007, 10:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Oooooh, but who knows?  Everybody's so paranoid of doctors nobody'll go to one.  Some (of us children/grandchildren) say simple paranoia, others say paranoid schizophrenia, others say it's just OCD, others say bipolar.  Definitely depression, any way you turn it.  That (above) isn't everything, it's just a start.  I don't know what it is, and I was joking about it being an O thing.  I'm not saying it's an O thing, just simply that I won't inherit it!     No, being O isn't bad at all.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Ribbit
Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 1:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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So, Drive, getting together with the fam for New Year's too? What coping skills are you learning that you can share with other HSPs?


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Ron-A-Non
Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 4:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I also swing between E and I, but I've figured out that it depends upon whether or not I think I'm around sane-minded people.  

If I presume that I'm around, or going to be around, safe, sane-minded people, then I automatically kick into my trusting, relaxed and enthusiastic, "extrovert" mode.

But once I start realizing that I'm around vain-minded people, then the realization that I'm in a milieu of unsafe madness where objectivity and sanity go out the window in favor of deranged and myopic egomania and a general climate of cannibalistic unfairness, then I find myself pulling back socially and psychologically, and becoming very depressed, angry, and anxious, and wanting desperately to get away or, at least, become an unassuming, invisible wallflower, much like Claudius the "fool" in the court of Rome.  And so then, of course, I become an "introvert".

I guess your general temperament, as far as whether you tend to prefer objective truth or subjective truth, determines how well you regard being around people.  As I find the majority of the human population to be a whim-worshipping, coercive mob, I'm generally an introvert.

In light of this, which I believe to be an actual truth about majority human nature, I also believe that labels like "paranoia" and "schizophrenia" are just self-serving and narcissistically-reassuring labels that the shameless and power-lusting cattle-drivers of society systematically slap on anyone who attempts to actually think or who, upon either the verge or the attainment of actual consciousness, is overcome with the awareness of the real horror of what human civilization generally is, and has the nonconformist nerve to, God forbid, psychologically fall apart in the face of it all.

Because of this, I think that, in our corruption-based dynamic of human civilization, "nervous breakdowns" are really and truly the only reliable signs that people are still human and alive, because it means that they are, whether consciously or unconsciously, appropriately responsive to the philosophical horror of things.  And the best book that I've ever read which supports and is based on this very notion, is the book Resilience by Frederic Flach, a psychiatrist who passed away recently.

Revision History (4 edits)
TJ  -  Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 4:22am
TJ  -  Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 4:21am
TJ  -  Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 4:19am
TJ  -  Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 4:19am
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TJ
Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 3:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ron, I'm soooo there with you on your sentiments about society.  I can identify with you I/E situation too.  I usually find myself more comfortable around other "crazy" people like myself, who have struggled with depression or anxiety problems, or who just like doing things their own way (and "to hell with anyone who has a problem with that!"), than with the more common, insensitive, competitive, and uncentered variety of people that represent the majority.  I tend to withdraw when I am uncomfortable with the social climate I'm currently in, but put me with other sensitive, moral, mature, and well-centered people, and I can sometimes be the life of the party, assuming I am feeling well when I get there.

Hey, sounds to me like you're a candidate for flipping over from T to F also!

Quoted from Ribbit
So, Drive, getting together with the fam for New Year's too? What coping skills are you learning that you can share with other HSPs?


Thank goodness, no, I didn't drive all the way back to NC for the new year.  I was fast asleep when 2008 strolled in, which is just how I wanted it.  I don't understand the hullabaloo over this holiday: I think it's just an excuse to throw a party.  I did go to a friend's New Year's Eve gathering last night, but I left at 9:30.

As far as coping skills go, here's an important one I was recently reminded of: the "reality check".  If I'd done this with dear step-mum, it wouldn't have made any more progress toward resolution than my approach did, but it wouldn't have been so messy and it would have made it just as plain that there would be no resolution (i.e. admission/recognition from her of what she was doing).

So what is this "reality check", you ask?  In a sense, it's confronting someone with your suspicion, but doing so in a non-confrontational way.  Instead of blaming, you talk to them about what you are feeling and thinking as a way of letting them know how they are being perceived.  This gives them a chance to set you straight on what they meant (which is what usually happens), or to verify to you that, yes indeed, I am out to get you!

For example, I perceived in my step-mother's tone that she didn't think very highly of my youngest brother (and I'd heard that tone repeatedly when speaking of him, or I wouldn't have confronted her), whenever she'd say anything about him.  Instead of accusing her of bad-mouthing him, I could have said that it sounds like she's bad-mouthing him to me.  It's a subtle difference, but very important.  The first puts my step-mother on the defensive, but the second, which just talks about what I think, just puts her on notice that something doesn't sound right to me, and that gives her a chance to explain, which she almost certainly would have done.  Even if she really did have some ill feeling toward my little bro, most likely she would explain it away as a misunderstanding on my part, and from thenceforth, she would be very careful to keep her feelings to herself.  I may never know the truth (whether I just misunderstood her, or whether she truly had any bad feeling), but it accomplishes what I want to happen all the same!

This kind of approach is worthless with someone who is openly hostile to you, but in most cases your "enemy" isn't openly hostile, so it is effective.  And truly, more often than not you will find that you simply misunderstood the other party, and that this is no enemy at all (but you must trust your intuition for that answer).  It's a great tool for clearing the air.  I hope this doesn't sound like a manipulative, conniving behavior, because in my experience, it isn't; and doing this brings potential problems out into the open, which actually eliminates a lot of potential conniving and manipulating.
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Ron-A-Non
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TJ
Wednesday, January 2, 2008, 2:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I must have missed the end of the story where Bartleby is "removed by the police and starves to death in the Tombs, preferring not to eat."  I hope this was a bit of sarcasm?

I can't say I agree with you about this being a good review (unless you are talking about the first review, above David Sandberg's): poor Mr. Sandberg seems to read far too much into this story (which is my typical experience with reviews of classic literature), making this story into some diatribe against capitalism and other "evils" of modern society.  Seems that many who do a review like this have an "axe to grind", and they always see a useful "grindstone" in their subject matter, whatever it may be.  I think I'll stick with the earlier-discussed idea that Bartleby was just overwhelmed and tired!
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TJ
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Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
So I've received a mildly interesting bit of information.  My mother finally got her blood type from her doctor, and he said that she's an A+.  I still don't know dad's type though.  Now I've been having these nagging doubts about whether I was typed correctly (which could explain why BTD wasn't quite enough!), so I looked through some of my old records, and in my immunization record I was labeled as an A+.  I wonder if they were just lazy and assumed that I had the same blood type as mom, or if they botched the test.

I "know" I'm a type B+ because I gave blood at Virginia Blood Services earlier in 2007, and that's the type I am on my donor card.  I plan on calling the Red Cross in NC who has my records from when I gave blood in high school, to double-check: hopefully they will verify that I am a type B+.  Anyway, it has occurred to me that if I show up as a B+ on one test, and an A+ on another, maybe I'm actually an AB+? especially if mom's an A+ and one of my brothers is a B+.  That means that dad has to be a B, unless mom was mistyped, or unless both my brother and I were mistyped.

Ugh...eventually I'm just going to have to get an Eldoncard and do it myself before I'm satisfied that it's correct.  At least, if I'm an AB+, it won't mess up my Nomad genotype!
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gulfcoastguy
Saturday, January 5, 2008, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

B to Bnonnie to Nomad, the journey continues
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,434
Gender: Male
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Age: 54
Your Dad could be an AB. Some of their kids are A's, some are B's, some are AB's and if the other parent is an O some could end up as O's. The result of an AB and O pair from work was an A and 2 O's.
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TJ
Saturday, January 5, 2008, 9:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
That's also a possibility.  But going with the percentages, it's more probable that he's a B.  And, he was never been the artsy, daydreaming type either (but still creative in his own ways), but then I'm leary about the whole BT/personality correlation anyway!  Maybe the GT/personality correlation will hold more water.
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Lola
Sunday, January 6, 2008, 5:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,160
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57
hope you get a correct reading soon!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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