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TJ
Monday, December 10, 2007, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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So this is just a vent session, I just need someone out there to hear me right now.  If I get some useful advice out of this it will be nice, but sometimes the biggest help is just writing it out.

I've been on BTD about 3 1/2 months now.  A month in, I was feeling the best of my life.  But over the past month+ I've had some "turbulence".  There was the corn syrup thing of course, which was explainable because I ate corn syrup.  But me abruptly quitting a decent job and not understanding why I couldn't handle it, and the re-emergence of my depression has me stumped and discouraged.

This weekend has been rough.  It has left me seriously wishing I hadn't thrown out my anti-depressants.  The stress and pressure of my financial circumstances and the expectations from people around me to "get it together" and "just get a job" have left me stressed out, and then when I didn't have anything left in me to sustain the "stressed-out" state, I just slumped into depression, and have just felt like I need to get away from everything.  The worst was last night: I just wanted to crawl in a cave and die, but today has been a little better.  My financial situation is not worrying me as much now, since I talked with my bishop, and have gotten some assistance (this is the welfare that Melissa_J and I referred to in the "Chit-chat" thread).

This still doesn't alleviate the pressure to "just get a job".  Like a lot of nonnies, I am over-sensitive to many things, stress/pressure being the prime one for me.  Because of that, I've had many unpleasant, damaging experiences in the work world, experiences that I suspect most people (secretors) could just suck up and forget about.  [Add to that my NF Idealist personality--looks like I'm not the NT Rational I thought I was a bit ago--and most mundane jobs I can qualify for are a very poor fit for me.]  Anyway, I tend to freak out and run away when the pressure gets to be too much for me.  At this point, I don't know if I'm just conditioned to panic and run, or if I'm really cracking under pressure.  Not that it makes a big difference, since the result is the same.

In one way, I wish I could really start fresh, living at home, gradually easing my way out into the big bad world at my own pace, but I'm all grown up, and a bit too old for that now.

I shouldn't be surprised at what has happened.  Judging from experience, any big change I have ever made with the intent of getting better has helped me feel better for a short while.  Starting a new medication, seeing a new therapist, moving to a new place, or starting a new job have all consistently given me reprieve.  I am not surprised that BTD has done this also.  BUT, I am still convinced that it is helping me.  I'm not thinking about quitting, just lamenting that the dramatic improvement I saw at the beginning was just a honeymoon.  I have been abusing myself with bad food for many years now, and my health has been fragile since I was a child, so I should expect it to take a long time for me to heal.

But what in the meantime?  The reality is, I need to find a job and stick with it, even if there are aspects of it I hate.  How do you cope?  The job I quit so abruptly was an office job.  I worked in a cubicle all day, in front of a computer, processing paperwork.  I felt wasted there, like just another piece of machinery.  The people I worked with seemed to have no spirit--they seemed content to come there, day after day, toiling at these dull, repetitive, and meaningless tasks, as if that was everything they hoped for in life.  I couldn't relate to them.  I felt trapped, almost.  I lasted three weeks.  I hadn't planned on quitting that day, but I sort of snapped when my trainer came back to me with a stack of work I did wrong and needed to correct.  Finding another job had been on my to-do list for two weeks, and was rising in priority every day.  But despite all that, it did for me what a job is supposed to do: it paid me.  The work was meaningless to me personally, but it was necessary, and there was nothing dishonorable or immoral in it, so why couldn't I just bide my time?  Sometimes I'm such a puzzle even to myself.

This whole stress thing is such a vicious cycle:
stress --> reduced capacity to alleviate source of stress --> more stress --> further reduced capacity --> even more stress --> collapse/breakdown/depression --> recovery --> stress...
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Victoria
Monday, December 10, 2007, 3:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Hi there!  
I must admit that I can relate to many of the things you shared in your post.  That doesn't fix things for you, but at least know that you're not alone, and everything can improve.  It all takes time, and we get impatient.

Try and stick with the BTD to the very best of your ability.  Especially for us non-secretors, avoids can destroy not just our health, but also our mental and emotional well being.  Eat as high a percentage as possible of beneficials.

Another suggestion is to get some Bach Flower Remedy, the one called Wild Oat.  Get an empty 2 oz dropper bottle, fill it with filtered or spring water, and put in 3 or 4 drops of the Wild Oat remedy.  Squeeze it under your tongue or into your water bottle or glass.  Drink throughout the day.  It is a homeopathic remedy for helping us to see what our best direction is out of all the choices that are spinning around our heads.

Try and stay calm and realize that solutions will emerge.  Before you go to bed at night, think or write down a list of the things you would like to see happen, and how you would like your career life to look and feel, and what you would like to do.  Don't censor what you write.  This is just planting seeds of positive desires.  Try to stop focusing on what you have not been happy with.  Every night pull out your list, or bring it up on the computer and write about what you do want.  This is one way of clearing the air for yourself and finding out what you are really wanting.  Do this every day for a couple of weeks, or longer.  The practice will help you know yourself more.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Whimsical
Monday, December 10, 2007, 3:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Just a brief response:

You are young and have lots of time to figure out your job situation and life in general.  Yet, you seem to be putting a lot of pressure and stress onto yourself about this and I have to ask why...  What is the rush?  You are living life in each of these moments and it is all about the journey, not the destination...

I worked in my old job for 1.5 YEARS while I figured out what I wanted to do and worked towards doing it.  It was also a job in a cubicle working in a business that I thought was kind of pointless.  It was really hard to go to work sometimes, but, boy, was it fun when I finally got to quit and walk out that door with no regrets!  Your next job will likely not be your career, but it will be a stepping stone/landing place for you while you make your long-term plans.

You cannot choose what people around you do (or try to do to you), but ultimately you decide how you are going to feel about it.  Learn to exercise your power of choice.  This is not simple or easy, it takes practice (as does any new behaviour), but the more you do it, the easier it gets.  Watch "The Secret", find yourself a mentor or career counselor and set goals, decide how you want to feel every day and practice achieving that.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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TJ
Monday, December 10, 2007, 3:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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My concerns aren't as much with my long-term plans as with getting by in the here and now.  I am confident in my ability to get where I want to go, eventually.  I'm not in a great hurry to get there either, except that the sooner I get "there", the less of "here" I have to put up with.

The pressure and stress I refer to are coming at me from the little everyday demands of life, not from concerns about the future.  There have been many times when it was an effort to sit down and pay bills, wash dishes, laundry, etc., in other words, all the little things you have to do to manage life.  I'm not just talking about an hour or a day, but weeks feeling this way.  The future I can handle; it's the present that scares me to death.  I feel very ill-equipped to deal with the mundane necessities of life, but during that month or so of feeling great after starting BTD, it wasn't a problem at all!  I didn't have to work myself up to go out grocery shopping or fold clothes or reply to an email.  Thankfully, I'm not that low now, and I expect that I will be feeling better tomorrow, but it has hurt my self-confidence, not knowing how much I can realistically expect out of myself from one day to the next.

Obviously, I have always managed to get through, somehow.  But I'm getting so tired of just barely getting by, and of having to expend so much effort to just barely get by.  As time goes by, and I continue to comply with the BTD (or GTD, when I get a copy of it), I expect I will experience more consistent, longer-lived improvements.  Really, over all these years, the knowledge that things would eventually get better has carried me over the darkest times.  But in the meanwhile, I still have to cope with the present and all its tiresome realities, and do so in my current state of health, whatever it happens to by on a given day.
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Melissa_J
Monday, December 10, 2007, 3:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Could you have Seasonal Affective Disorder?  The treatment is good for you whether or not you have it, so try getting more sunlight.  Get out in the sun in the morning and around noon, you can get some walking or other exercise in to keep you warm.  It may be too cold to show much skin, but no sunglasses or sunscreen, and at least let your face get some rays.  The flourescent lights in most offices drive me nuts, you didn't happen to have a window by you, I presume?  The worst job I ever had was office work in a basement office with no real sunlight...it didn't matter what I was doing I would have hated that job.  Well, there was one other job where the boss was this passive aggressive type...that was actually the worst job, but at least I had a window there!  

Some adaptogens are always nice, I'm not sure what the best ones are for Bs... maybe a B can inform us.  I really like Tulsi Tea, an herbal tea from holy basil.  The tulsi ginger flavor is really nice and warming (some of the flavors have green or black tea in them, so check on them, but Indian Organics Tulsi Ginger is caffeine-free)

Sometimes, this time of year, I can be walking through a store and just suddenly get the urge to melt into a puddle on the floor...it's like everything just gets sapped out of me.  It usually gets better for me on the 21st of December, when the daylength starts to turn around.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Curious
Monday, December 10, 2007, 4:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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You might want to read the book "Making work work for the highly sensitive person": http://www.amazon.com/Making-Work-Highly-Sensitive-Person/dp/007140810X
Other good books are: http://www.hsperson.com/
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OSuzanna
Monday, December 10, 2007, 4:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you get more antidepressants, don't throw them out when you are feeling better, regardless of the reason you are feeling better, just put them away in case of emergency, like now. ..I'm no doctor, but I recognize much of what you're going thru per your first post of this thread. I've had to keep traditional meds on hand since I started BTDing and feeling better and better, but I've needed less and less of them. So far I've been BTDing about 1-3/4 years.
It doesn't happen all at once, and I do understand the panic-y frustration.
Best of luck getting your feet back under you so you can go back to looking for work - try temp agencies?
Gotta run, good luck, drive!

Hey, curious, I just saw your link, I'm gonna check it out, since I'm now between jobs myself.


OSuzanna
A Before Picture , In the Process of Becoming an After Picture
FOOD for THOUGHT, Super Beneficial 4 All Blood Types!
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Lola
Monday, December 10, 2007, 7:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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drive,
something tells me you are extremely sensitive to avoids, and other allergens.
I would follow the allergies book closely for a while and adapt all the great advice you ve already been given.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Ron-A-Non
Monday, December 10, 2007, 7:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Just tonight, I saw a book in the bookstore called "Careers for Nonconformists" or something like that.  It looked pretty good.

Also, you should probably go for training in something like career counseling or counseling psychology... they'll let you practice your idealism.  But don't do clinical; you wouldn't like it.  
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Amazone I.
Monday, December 10, 2007, 10:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
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drive 55 I feel you as a great teacher and counselor, but please not only paperwork...that kills us .....hmmm, may I recommend that you should augment your intake of aminoacids instead of those meds. I am sure you will have success whithin days and hours and then my dear, please step away from those thoughts that you've to fulfill any expectations of others...that's just not true...but if ther's something like a little of narcistic pattern of *how do I shine to others*...so here it's the good time to loose it....

is that possible that in effect it isn't any depression but a thyroid problem ....So please go for kelp & l'tyrosine
and please try not to step into our trap of "I am and I have*
the I-concept doesn't work with us, it's just empty.... and should be  filled up with joy and love to yourself
did you ever tried to work with Louise Hay's aphorismen....they work so well
Please don't feel offended but I want really to sustain ya another hug from Switzerland, truly yours Isa


MIfHI K-174
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geekchic9
Monday, December 10, 2007, 1:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TJ
This weekend has been rough.  It has left me seriously wishing I hadn't thrown out my anti-depressants.


So, let me get this straight: You were feeling better on BTD and stopped taking your anti-depressants on a whim without consulting a doctor?   If this is the case, then that's your problem. Never get rid of your meds without consulting a a psychiatrist. That's kind of like a diabetic saying, "Hmmm...I feel better on BTD today, so I'll just throw out my insulin!" Then they freak out when disaster ensues. Getting better is a gradual process. It won't happen overnight!

My blog is about my journey off of my medications. In the FAQ, I haven't gotten off of them yet, as it's only been 3 weeks, but I've never felt better:

Quoted Text

I still plan to take medication until I don't need it anymore, to go to my therapist for counseling, and to attend support groups whenever and wherever I can find them. This really complements what I am already doing. So, even if I "fail" and am unable to get off of medications, I still "win" because I will have a better quality of life.


I know that it's hard to be on psych meds. They're expensive and the stigma for taking them is high. But, if that's what you need right now, then that's what you need. Go back to your doctor, admit what you did, and get some new meds. Then, continue healing on BTD. After a while, when it's evident your dosage is too high because of the side effects you're experiencing, then talk about reducing the dosage. In the meantime, keep a journal on the moods you're feeling and the side effects you're experiencing. A blog is great for doing that in my opinion, as the desire to attract an audience keeps me accountable. Good luck with everything, and keep me posted.  
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jeanb
Monday, December 10, 2007, 1:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm with Isa on this one. Please read The Mood Cure and then start taking the aminio acids the book advocates asap.  

Then I am going to sound mean, but I am the COO of a company and I hire people frequently, but then I also fire frequently.  I had to chuckle when I saw you thought your previous job(s) were boring.  Yah, my job is boring too, I have had my share since I was 16, but I always have gone to a job with these thoughts in mind:

1.  I am going to do my job with a smile on my face and learn from it no matter how bad it is.
2.  I am going to do my job quickly with ABSOLUTELY NO MISTAKES.
3.  I am not going to miss a day of work.
4.  I am not going to complain about my work as there are possibly billions of people on earth with no work or truly soul shattering work. (I just have to remember some of the jobs my parents and grandparents performed when they first came to Canada)
5.  I will learn everything I can about my job so I will be promoted.
6.  I will never say no when I am given a new task to learn.


This attitude has always served me well.  Even though I have a 2 year diploma in design, I have risen to the top job in almost every place I have ever worked.  Within 2 months I will be the CEO of the factory in which I presently work. Last week, when we had a horrible virus run through the factory, I was the one who ended up cleaning the lunchroom and shop sinks, and I did it with a smile on my face as it was a change of pace from dealing with HR issues and customers. The men in the factory were surprised, but I did learn the factory needed shop sinks with knee controls rather than hand ones.


I come from the apparel industry and I can't even to tell you how many times I have sat on a production line making the same thing over and over (best day ever was 1500 cuffs!!!)or cleaning thousands of garments, or packing boxes on Christmas Eve for Boxing Day Sales.

I have found over the past 2 years of working in this particular factory, young men 16-35 have incredible resiliance issues. They cannot deal with the little stresses of everyday life and they don't like to do mundane tasks.  

Having to learn new skills seems to be degrading.  I have also seen these young men seem to hate doing 100% quality jobs.  They don't care if they make mistakes and need to redo product. They lack the ability to concentrate and don't listen to supervisors.  

I see it in my own sons as they refuse to do rewrites on written work for school and don't seem to care if their quality is OK or not.  I can't tell you how many times they have had to rewash dishes when they weren't cleaned properly.

Yes, I know I sound like a cranky mother/boss type, but sometimes an attitude readjustment is required.  No job is forever, but perhaps you must remember every job is a teacher for your next job.  



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NewHampshireGirl
Monday, December 10, 2007, 2:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Bravo, Jean, very well spoken how to conduct oneself in every job.  It's the attitude I have followed all my life and it has served me well.

Everyone's advice on this thread is valuable.  The amino acids therapy has certainly caught my interest.  Not that I need it myself but I like to keep up on the whole subject of nutrition.
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Mekan
Monday, December 10, 2007, 3:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Drive55,
I just want you to know that I hear ya and feel ya man.  I am not going to through advice out at ya because you know what to do already.  That doesn't make the actual doing any easier, especially when you are in the midst of a depressive episode. When I go to that dark place of depression there is nothing that will make me feel better really except time.  

Please know that there are others suffering just as you are and that the holiday season tends to add to the pressure and anxiety.  The winter weather for those of us that experience it is also another factor that weighs us down. A great deal of this is 'hard-coded' in us and many times this coding leads to us making decisions that have poor results. Melville understood out plight well.  Take the time to read a short story called Bartlebyby Melville.   You can find it online here.http://etext.virginia.edu/etcb.....=1&division=div1.

I read this story often, especially when work gets me down.


When you are out of the funk send me a message and we can talk about opportunities and choices. Right now weather the storm.
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Lola
Monday, December 10, 2007, 5:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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how about this!
http://www.tyrantbook.com/

the other side of the spectrum!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

Revision History (1 edits)
Lola  -  Monday, December 10, 2007, 6:55pm
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Amazone I.
Monday, December 10, 2007, 5:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
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geekchic 9  may I ask you to read the *wisdom of the enneagram* of Don Richard Riso and then you see, that your guess might have been right when saying ENTJ...but what happens when 1/2 goes backwards....the desintegrative way, here  he/she goes to No 4 and that's infp/j.....often confounded with isfj/p which is a complete different type .....but ENTP has a part of no 9 in its pattern .......
much much easier all, as we think if you know how and what will happen....if .....
but the easiest for you might be, scroll in my pidgining-archive and read about it...I made a workout of seven different blogs about that thema  


Jean....all your mentioned phrases sounded soooo familiar to me


MIfHI K-174
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TJ
Monday, December 10, 2007, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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As I expected, I was feeling better when I awoke today.  Just writing everything down last night was a help, too.  After my second post I went to bed, already feeling a little bit better.

Melissa_J: I doubt it's SAD I'm dealing with.  I have struggled with this boogeyman through all seasons.  But a gloomy overcast day does take a toll on my mood.  Fortunately, it's 70 degrees and sunny here today!  I did go out for a walk, and it was pleasant, but I can't bear to part with my sunglasses .  I have never been by a window in an office job.  Florescent lights don't really bother me; I like them better than incandescents, because the light is whiter...unless they are flickering, which drives me batty.

Curious, Ron, jeanb, Tomatilla: Considering my financial circumstances, any solutions I try are going to be low- to no-cost ones.  Hopefully I can find some cheap used copies of the books recommended on the internet, or better still, for free in the library.  Those "highly sensitive people" books sound like a winner to me.

OSuzanna: Getting more antidepressants right now isn't realistic.  My most recent psychiatrist is in Raleigh, and costs $90 for 30 minutes.  I can't afford the fee or the drive, and I'm just gonna do without for now.  This was the first time I ever threw away my old meds--I had quite a pharmacy on-hand, but I will not make that mistake again.

Lola: I agree that I probably am very sensitive to avoids, especially corn.  I have been 99% compliant.  Unfortunately, the walnuts I've been eating have a bit of corn oil in them!  But it's such a small amount, I can't even taste or feel the oil on them.  And it turns out, my vitamin C's and multivitamins have a small amount of corn starch in them.  I hate to throw them out over such a little bit of avoid.

Ron: Ever since my senior research project, I knew I didn't want to do clinical.  The thought of reading scholarly journals and tabulating statistics all day makes me cringe.  No, I definitely want to work with individuals, helping them to get better in some way.  My trouble is, can I find such a job right now?  I'm not counting on it, just looking forward to that kind of work once I have more education and credentials.

Tomatilla: I have long since been purged of the "how do I shine for others" and "I am what I have" vanities.  But independence and self-sufficiency are important value to me.  I hate feeling so reliant on the aid of others just to make basic needs.  It's true that we all need other people, but I don't think it's too much to expect that I should be financially independent, especially considering how simply I live.

geekchic: The stigma of antidepressants is not as big a deal as the cost.  I admit, I was in quite a celebratory mood when I tossed them out, because it feels great to believe that you don't need that crutch anymore!  I will just call this another "learning experience".

jeanb: The boredom is only part of it.  I really can't put my finger on what happened, or on what happens, that makes me freak out and run screaming for the door.  Those are admirable goals to set, but not quite realistic for me.  I know, because I've set similar ones for myself, and pushed myself so hard in trying to achieve them that I crashed.  The first crash I ever had, I was working in the campus bookstore.  I actually had a good time there.  I enjoyed the people I worked with, and the dullness of the work didn't bother me.  While working there, I was also determined to get into shape.  I was going to the gym almost every day after work to lift weights or jog (indoor track).  Mysteriously, I began developing a persistent fatigue, and I backed off in my workout routine, and eventually quit altogether, but it kept getting worse, until I didn't even have the energy to stand for more than a few minutes at a time.  I physically became incapable of performing my job's function, and had to quit.  I spent a few months at home, sleeping a great deal (this was over the summer), and when the fall semester started up, I forced myself to get up and go back to school, even though it was very difficult and I didn't feel fully recovered by then.  Frankly, I never have fully recovered, until the brief good stint I had shortly after starting BTD.  I have repeated this experience a couple of times, so that now, I am no longer willing to push myself so hard.  I'd rather quit while I'm well than wait until I'm incapable of going on.  With some of my past crashes, I suspect physical exertion was the culprit; with others (the more recent ones) it was due to less tangible stressors.

Mekan: Truly, time is the best cure for these episodes.  Sometimes, nothing I try seems to speed up the process of getting back up from one.  It just takes time.

Lola:   "How to be a Successful Tyrant"?  You know we NFs have very little desire for managing others...but I'm sure the ES_Js around here would find it fascinating!
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SquarePeg
Monday, December 10, 2007, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I identify with you, drive55.  It's almost as if you read my mind when you wrote that post, except I haven't actually quit my job.  I think many people just don't understand how hard it can be just to get ready to leave the house on some days.

I read some great suggestions in this thread.  That "Making Work Work for the Highly Sensitive Person" sounds interesting.  I already did watch "The Secret," and I'm starting to meditate again.

Most helpful was when I asked my ND for help.  He suggested that I take Pure Encapsulations' "Emotional Wellness Formula."  This has taken away a lot of the anxiety I'd feel on workday mornings.  And I've stopped obsessing about all the life pressures and what-ifs, which nearly incapacitated me.

Good luck.  Take it one day at a time, one moment at a time.


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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Lola
Monday, December 10, 2007, 7:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57

did you read this part?
http://www.theft-by-deception.com/

I like this guy.......he thinks outside the box!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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TJ
Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
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Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Lola, I read "Bartleby", but I don't get it.  Does it really end with "The great point was, not whether I had assumed that he would quit me, but whether he would prefer so to do. He was more a man of preferences than assumptions."?  Or is there another page?  I'm also confused by that "Theft by Deception": is that for real?  Even if it is, the IRS is a de facto law unto itself....
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Mekan
Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I am glad that you are feeling better today.  I hate being in that dark place.  It is as if I am having an out-of-body experience.  Part of me asks why I am making irrational statements and assumptions and at the same time feeling the anxiety and deep hurt that depression brings.  Do give Bartleby a read though, it is our problem.

At times it is almost as if I am not happy unless there is drama.  Things can go extremely well at work for a long period of time and then suddenly I have a big issue.  I don't know why it happens or why I react that way.  My mother never seemed happy unless she was dealing with a crisis that 'only' she could handle.  I fear that may be me too.

Now, being a fellow B-nonnie I will tell you what I do that helps me.

I try not to think so much.  If there is one thing that seems to be common to B's is a great deal of introspection.  Introspection and idealism can lead to an inability to act, to make change.  It may sound trite, but I do my best not to perseverate on my introspection.  I work very hard at being and living in the moment, not the future or the past.  I meditate.

Accept yourself for who and what you are.  It is hard to make  changes when you are beating yourself up.  Don't ignore what you need to change, but forgive yourself so that you can change.  You will always come up short of your expectations.  I have said before that I see myself as a knight, as Lancelot.  It is a point of pride that I have great empathy and forgiveness of other's faults.  It is a great weakness not to have empathy and forgiveness for my own.

Separate your person from your work.  Far too long I equated my worth with what I did and how much I earned.  I would measure myself against other men.  It is important that my work is simply a means to earning income.  I am simply too sensitive and idealistic to treat work as anything else.  There is just too many compromises and too much that is not in my control at work.  Jeanb's 6 rules are pretty accurate.

No job will be a perfect fit for me.  Frankly I am too complex to satisfy, a high-maintenance type of guy.  So I made a decision to limit the stress of work and focus on time outside of work to value.  My job now pays me less than half of what I had been earning previously but doubles my off time.  I can leave work at work.

Exercise
Do things that are fascinating. Don't simply walk a treadmill.    Mow the lawn for a lady down the street or detail your mom's car.  Live.  Again, treadmill walking gives me too much time with my own thoughts.  I try to do things that help me think about the activity at hand or the people involved in the activity.

Finally,  I realize that we all have our own beliefs but spend time with your Maker.

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Amazone I.
Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
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omG Lola...what a laughter but he's an i...not an E....the number 8 in Risos' might be enpicture those situations, as well no.6 but here onto the desintegrative way coz of ambivalence .....well did I say ambivalence ...huh

even no:2 might get such traits when going to no 8..........

Mekan, great, great staement feel .....but remember an infj resembles to an extravert (Briggs-Myers expression about infj's in the book *gifts differing* but might be overwhelmed also by their capacities of selfobservation and insights  ...this is meant positively!!! Then NF's especially the i's just are the dramaqueens and kings, they need to celebrate their research for their *selfs* and then also creating situations which ends in drama   ...why...coz they try
selfreduction by fixing themselves until .....and then blaming themselves for anything and nothing...hmmmm this is the act for forgivenes, yep here you are more then right ....
infj means in Riso's enneagram, 4/5...the 5 is NT.....so no wonder that you search for independency as well
I only can ask you to think with your bellies and not to much with your brains ...ahem yessss you both; if you act likewise, mostly of the time you just *see* right.....you are the prvoyants... so use you mostly favest side and go for it


MIfHI K-174

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Amazone I.  -  Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:33pm
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TJ
Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Quoted from 1750
Do give Bartleby a read though, it is our problem.


I did.  I just don't get it.  Who is this Bartleby, and how is he relevant?  I am truly lost on this one .

Quoted from 1750
Now, being a fellow B-nonnie I will tell you what I do that helps me.

I try not to think so much.  If there is one thing that seems to be common to B's is a great deal of introspection.  Introspection and idealism can lead to an inability to act, to make change.  It may sound trite, but I do my best not to perseverate on my introspection.  I work very hard at being and living in the moment, not the future or the past.  


I am also bad about this, and I recognize it, but sometimes, when I should be just "putting one foot in front of the other", I need to know which direction I should be facing first!

Quoted from 1750
I meditate.


I see this thrown around a lot.  What does it really mean?

Quoted from 1750
Separate your person from your work....

No job will be a perfect fit for me.  Frankly I am too complex to satisfy, a high-maintenance type of guy.  So I made a decision to limit the stress of work and focus on time outside of work to value.  My job now pays me less than half of what I had been earning previously but doubles my off time.  I can leave work at work.


I agree.  Work is the means to obtain money, and money is the means to do things you need and want to do in life: money is a tool, no more.  I will probably be looking hard at part-time work, because the 40 hr week grind is a bit much for me to bear over the long haul.  25-30 hrs/week would be ideal.

Quoted from 1750
Exercise
Do things that are fascinating. Don't simply walk a treadmill.    Mow the lawn for a lady down the street or detail your mom's car.  Live.  Again, treadmill walking gives me too much time with my own thoughts.  I try to do things that help me think about the activity at hand or the people involved in the activity.


I despise treadmills.  I walk outdoors, even if it's 20 degrees F outside.  If I need to go for a walk, I bundle up and go.  I do a lot of thinking while I walk, but usually it's positive and clarifying (unless I'm already in a bad funk).  But I could still do better at the "interesting" aspect of this.

Quoted from 1750
Finally,  I realize that we all have our own beliefs but spend time with your Maker.


I do, and this is probably why I'm still alive after all these years!
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Amazone I.
Monday, December 10, 2007, 9:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
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Location: CH-Benglen Kanton Z�rich
Age: 56
I am going to repeat myselve ....read the enneagram and then
you know what is really meant


MIfHI K-174
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SquarePeg
Monday, December 10, 2007, 10:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI GT4 Explorer 44%; Rh-; iNfP; nonnie?
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,423
Gender: Male
Location: Northeast, USA
Quoted from 1750
-snip-At times it is almost as if I am not happy unless there is drama.  Things can go extremely well at work for a long period of time and then suddenly I have a big issue.  I don't know why it happens or why I react that way.  My mother never seemed happy unless she was dealing with a crisis that 'only' she could handle.  I fear that may be me too.
Isn't this indicative of a sluggish adrenal gland?  Or I could be confusing this with the habit of putting off things until the last minute, which leads to a panic-stricken effort (with the accompanying rush of adrenaline) to do the thing.



My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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