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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Nonnie Clubhouse  ›  Non Secretors: Do you eat grains?
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 Non Secretors: Do you eat grains
Yes, O nonnie (68 votes)
25.76%
No, O nonnie (52 votes)
19.70%
Yes, A nonnie (49 votes)
18.56%
Yes, B/AB nonnie (32 votes)
12.12%
No, A nonnie (30 votes)
11.36%
I'm a secretor but I still want to vote (18 votes)
6.82%
No, B/AB nonnie (15 votes)
5.68%
264 Votes Total Last vote Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 12:46am by Pamma
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Non Secretors: Do you eat grains?  This thread currently has 23,387 views. Print Print Thread
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Brighid45
Friday, June 30, 2006, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I've thought about getting the secretor test done again just to make sure . . . we'll see how finances go. Forty bucks makes a big hole in my paycheck at the moment.

For now, I just cut out grains, legumes and dairy. It works; that's good enough for the moment.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, June 30, 2006, 7:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Brighid45
I've thought about getting the secretor test done again just to make sure . . . we'll see how finances go. Forty bucks makes a big hole in my paycheck at the moment.

For now, I just cut out grains, legumes and dairy. It works; that's good enough for the moment.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!    



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

my Facebook page
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Victoria
Tuesday, July 4, 2006, 6:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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For the past week and a half, I have been only eating one rice cake a day.  That's a big step from eating two a day for years.  Since it's a grain that I do ok with, I have been pretty attached to it.  

One a day is just fine for now.  I've lost a pound and a half, and think I'll hang on to my one-a-day!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Drea
Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 1:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Warrior ~ Taster, NN, ENFJ
Sun Beh Nim
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I'm a secretor, but I tend to do best when I don't eat grains more three to five times per week; about every other day is about right. Some grains make me crave more grains; and I can eat the whole box, loaf, pie, batch if I'm not careful.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 5:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
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Note to all you folks who avoid all grains (or who are thinking of doing so):

If grains are defined as the seeds of any plant in the grass family (as I believe they are), then you might also want to avoid all other foods derived from the grass family, such as barley malt, corn syrup, rice syrup, Sucanat (alias evaporated cane juice), sugar, molasses and blackstrap molasses.

The only sweeteners I can think of that I'm sure are not made from grasses are honey, maple syrup (and maple sugar), stevia, and our old friend agave nectar.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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italybound
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 10:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Carol, thanks for the thoughts. Makes total sense. Sense I see barley malt mentioned here, barley malt syrup the same as barley malt flour? Or would they both be considered the same - neutral? Finally found some maple sugar. Coombs Family farm kept emailing me their list, but the sugar wouldn't show. She finally copied and pasted to get it to me. What I found however, I got at WF. Was just glad to finally find it!  



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Laura P
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 12:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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yes I avoid the whole biological family, you have to be careful with food families though, intolerance and allergies are common for the whole family but don't have to be, more common in sub-families



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
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Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 4:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
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Right, Laura.  If someone had trouble with corn but not with wheat, for example, they'd be more likely to have trouble with corn syrup or sorghum molasses than with barley malt.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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italybound
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Carol_the_Dabbler
Right, Laura.  If someone had trouble with corn but not with wheat, for example, they'd be more likely to have trouble with corn syrup or sorghum molasses than with barley malt.


So sorghum is in the corn family? If so, should O's be using it or is the fact that it's SOOOOO cooked down, that makes it ok to use?



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Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 7:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
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Have you ever seen sorghum plants?  They look just like corn, except that the grain grows on the tassels on top rather than in ears.  And yes, they're related.

Sorghum grain has been tested, but not sorghum molasses.  This means that sorghum molasses is technically an Unknown (or some would say a Cautious Neutral), but if sorghum grain is an Avoid for you (which it is), and corn syrup (which is also pretty darn cooked down) is also an Avoid for you (which it is), then I'd put my money on sorghum molasses being an Avoid for you (when/if it's ever tested).

Too bad -- it's yummy stuff!



Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

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Carol_the_Dabbler  -  Sunday, July 9, 2006, 7:20pm
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italybound
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 7:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Ohhhhhhhhh Carol,                 I think I just develped amnesia. Don't remember a thing I just read about that sorghum info. Mannnnnnnnnnn, I love molasses. There are other molasses. Maybe I could switch to one of those. Any suggestions?  Gosh, my whole day is ruined............                Yeah, I know, I'll get over it.  



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Patty Lee
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 7:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The majority of molasses is made from sugarcane, unless otherwise noted (as in sorgum).  Molasses is OK for nonnies despite its relationship to sugarcane.    Sugarcane is not a grain.  It is, nonetheless, an avoid for O nonnies.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Carol the Dabbler
Monday, July 10, 2006, 2:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
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Sugarcane would be a grain if it had seeds (not sure whether it does or whether it's been bred not to).  It's definitely a member of the grass family, so sugar, molasses, and Sucanat are grain-type sweeteners.

But you're right, Patty, if it says just "molasses" or "Barbados molasses" or "blackstrap molasses," it's made from sugar cane.  The kind of molasses that's made from sorghum is called "sorghum molasses."


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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Henriette Bsec
Saturday, July 15, 2006, 7:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamied nomad chameleon receptor worldview
Kyosha Nim
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I think that even secretors should be extremely carefull with grains.
It works like drugs in me- if I start the day with some grain product - i┤ll be 100% sure that the rest of the day I┤ll eat far more grains- than if I started grainfree. However if my grain is oatmeal with milk and butter or a slice of bread with eggs- the effect is less than if it was just bread or pancakes...Protein/fat balance ??? or just the fact that whole grains are better than flour ?

I normally keep my grains to a max 1 serving pr day- it makes it easier to cook for my O as well.
Most weeks I aim at max 5 servings.
The last 2 weeks I have been 99,5 % grainfree- 2 cookies sneaked in- as well as 1 crispbread and I am so surprised about how much better I feel- no more drops in sugarlevels

Well sugarcane is like Carol wrote a grass- but what about sugarbeets... not a grain - but still bad news for most of us!


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
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brenda50
Saturday, July 15, 2006, 8:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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New to the diet and still just feeling my way around it and not having had the secretor test done yet, I gave up wheat over a week ago and was surprised that it was not too hard though i felt bad for a couple of days.. Then a few days ago, I decided to go the whole way and gave up all grains. Wow I can't believe it. Here are the results,

Food craving gone. I feel like my eating is finally under my control.

Pain in joints lessening every day aand more mobility in joints.

Fluid retention reducing.

Weight slowly going after finding it impossible to shift.

More mental clarity.

Skin feels better.

I am a long way from perfect yet and am still eating cheese and occasionally potatoes and other avoids, but grains have proved to be the big nono and now I am really encouraged to continue to become compliant enough for healing to really get going in my body. This has been the key that I have searched for. I am so overthemoon.
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Lola
Saturday, July 15, 2006, 3:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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great report!!
keep up the good work! )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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brenda50
Saturday, July 15, 2006, 8:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Lola.I am amazed at the different feel to my skin after only a few days. It is smoother and silkier. I can only imagine how good things will get a few months into the diet with more compliance.
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Lola
Saturday, July 15, 2006, 8:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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it just gets better!!  perseverance!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Shel
Saturday, July 15, 2006, 10:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from brenda50


grains have proved to be the big nono and now I am really encouraged to continue to become compliant enough for healing to really get going in my body. This has been the key that I have searched for. I am so overthemoon.


Wow, that's great! It can take a while for the body to adjust, heal, etc. It's wonderful that you're seeing results so soon. For some, it seems to take several months to be where you are already. Sometimes it can take up to 2 years with strict avoidance for the true healing to be complete. Lots of rebalancing occurs in the body once it's off grain, it seems. I reduced them somewhat gradually. The so-called 'gluten' grains (wheat, spelt, kamut, triticale, rye, barley) should go first as they are usually the most problematic for people, independant of blood type. Interestingly, the human gut can't break down gliadin (the protein that is the problem in wheat, spelt, kamut and triticale), so even for people who seem to tolerate gluten grains, it's still a challenge to benefit from them in any meaningful way.

Shel

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italybound
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 2:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Shel
Interestingly, the human gut can't break down gliadin (the protein that is the problem in wheat, spelt, kamut and triticale), so even for people who seem to tolerate gluten grains, it's still a challenge to benefit from them in any meaningful way.


Shel, welcome to the forum!!
In re: to the above comment, if this were true, wouldn't everyone be at least gluten
intolerant?   Also, please add millet, barley, rye and oats (for some) to the list of grain w/ gluten.  



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Shel
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 3:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the welcome! Yes, it is very likely that all humans are at least mildly intolerant. Most people don't know it because they don't have classic Celiac symptoms (that was the case for me).

The only grains that contain 'gliadin' are the ones that I listed. Rye and barley should be avoided, too. Millet is never listed as a gluten grain by Celiac sites, but I avoid it. The other grains that don't contain gliadin have proteins that the body reacts to in a similar way as gliadin, but gliadin is the worst, it seems, when it comes to causing gut damage. It never breaks down fully. The book Dangerous Grains is worth reading, even though it's a bit out of date. Anyway, the high levels of gliadin in wheat are why wheat is particularly bad - it's been bred to contain higher amounts of gliadin because it makes it more 'hard' and good for bread making, etc. It's used in things like glue, too. The reason that oats are a problem, according to many studies, is that they are usually highly contaminated with gluten during processing (they are processed in places that process wheat). Many non-grain grains like quinoa might have the same problem. 'Gluten' is a bit of a misnomer, though. It just means the protein in any grain, including corn. In modern times it has come to mean the protein in specific grains.  

Shel

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Carol_the_Dabbler  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 3:14am
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italybound
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 4:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Shel
The only grains that contain 'gliadin' are the ones that I listed. Rye and barley should be avoided, too. Millet is never listed as a gluten grain by Celiac sites, but I avoid it. The other grains that don't contain gliadin have proteins that the body reacts to in a similar way as gliadin, but gliadin is the worst, it seems, when it comes to causing gut damage.  The reason that oats are a problem, according to many studies, is that they are usually highly contaminated with gluten during processing (they are processed in places that process wheat). 'Gluten' is a bit of a misnomer, though. It just means the protein in any grain, including corn. In modern times it has come to mean the protein in specific grains.  


According to this site, the definition of gliadin is:

Gliadin: A glycoprotein (a carbohydrate plus a protein) within gluten. Gliadin is found in wheat and some other grains, including oats, rye, barley, and millet.

According to this definiton, gliadin is a glycoprotein within gluten. Would this not make them basically one in the same re: allergies or intolerances?   This site does list millet, tho I must admit, it's the first time I've ever seen it included.

Oats are also sometimes contaminated in the fields in which they are grown. If wheat or another grain containing gluten was grown there the year before, it is contaminated in this way.




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Shel
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hmm, that's very strange. That's the first time I've read that gliadin is in those grains, too!

The articles below offer some help. Just a sample from my quick Google searches just now, so there are better descriptions out there. Funny how in the second link they talk about 'Kawmut' (instead of kamut). But I think that the articles on this page are fairly informative about this.  

http://www.alphanutrition.com/celiac/gluten.htm

http://www.enabling.org/ia/celiac/grains.html

The link below is interesting. It describes the problem with barley malt for people who are sensitive.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....70&dopt=Abstract

And this is from Dr. D about non-secretors and Celiac:

http://www.dadamo.com/PathType/PathType-read.pl?show=30

Interesting, but he isn't as up on this as he should be, sadly. Most doctors aren't, of course. Only full blown Celiac is recognized. I know many people who are horribly sensitive to gluten but it doesn't show up in the blood tests. Stool testing seems to be the best way to determine this. I got tested by Enterolab. http://www.enterolab.com

Shel




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Carol_the_Dabbler  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:59am
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brenda50
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 8:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Shel

and welcome. I have been seriously trying to heal for quite a few years now, and went macrobiotic for a time. I have tried everything, and worked hard for years two on an anti-Candida diet, but only got so far. Giving up on grains feels like it is going to be the one thing that is going to cause significant change and it is very interesting what you are saying and giving us links about re grains. I really needed for this to happen as I have got so weary with all of the effort not getting me far and relapses occuring when I gave up. I got so down this time that I have the motivation to stay off grains now that there are some results so soon. I cannot stop feeling my skin!

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Henriette Bsec
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swamied nomad chameleon receptor worldview
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from pkarmeier

Also, please add millet, barley, rye and oats (for some) to the list of grain w/ gluten. á


Millet ????
I think it is without gluten
- at least that is what we always was told :use millet, corn or rice if we should feed babies no gluten food before 6 months.
and
Quote:
it is now gaining popularity as a delicious and nutritious grain that can be enjoyed for both its unique virtues as well as the fact that it is a gluten-free grain alternative to wheat.

From

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=53


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
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Diamonds, superfoods, Neutral,*black dots, avoids
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