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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Nonnie Clubhouse  ›  Choice: an avoid protein or a compliant grain?
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Choice: an avoid protein or a compliant grain?  This thread currently has 2,610 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty Lee
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I would have done a poll, but this is really probably more of an O-non thing--maybe other nonnies with higher protein quotas than their secreting counterparts.

If faced with a meal consistently made of a compliant grain or a meal made constistently of an avoid protein (like a particular fish, or pork), which would you choose?  Which should you choose?  I've been in this situation &  find it difficult, especially since I've seen no clear negative reactions from non-compliant meats.

Thoughts?


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Victoria
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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My first thought is, how frequently are you talking about?

Rarely?
Often?
Daily?

If daily, I would bring my own meat!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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KimonoKat
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Personally, I'd choose a neutral over an avoid any day.

Just because it's "protein, and O's do better on protein" doesn't mean that negates the problems you will have later down the road eating an avoid.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Patty Lee
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Let's say: vacationing in another country for 3 weeks.  Because that's what started this question in my head!


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Victoria
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'd probably:
#1  see if I could get the cooks to accommodate my needs
#2  if a restaurant, try and find another restaurant that would accommodate my needs
#3  find a place that I could buy canned salmon or other canned meat or a deli with pre-cooked compliant meat and I would carry my own meat to the table.
#4  pick at the food at the table.  Eat what was compliant and get myself something to eat after the "meal" was over.

It all depends on your own level of compliance.  For the sake of my health, I don't eat avoids because it would be seriously very bad for me.  But I would do just as badly on a high carb diet for a few weeks.
I would do everything within my ability to meet my own nutrutional needs.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Red Meat Eater
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I'd go for the compliant grain and just eat small portions of rice.  After the meal I'd find a spear and go running off into the wilds to spear my own fish and hunt down and kill my own wild beasts.  Then I'd make a fire and cook my spoils and feast to my heart's content


Kombu noodles are DELICIOUS (and wheat-free)
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Brighid45
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

INFJ
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Hmm . . . this is a toughie. I'd say it all depends on how you react to neutral grains. If you think you can handle eating them for three weeks, then go for the grains and stay away from the avoid protein. You might also get some Deflect-O to take with you as extra protection, so to speak.

I've been faced with this choice upon occasion because my system is nonnie-like in its sensitivity to grains and legumes. If the grain was something I knew I could do without too much damage, like rice, then I ate the rice. Quinoa, amaranth, millet--ditto. Anything resembling wheat--no way.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison

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EquiPro
Monday, April 3, 2006, 6:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hey, if I was on a wonderful vacation for 3 weeks, I would just eat whatever I wanted and whatever appealed to me until I was home.  Years down the road, I would look back on that trip and never once say, "gosh, it was a wonderful trip, but I sure wish I hadn't eaten the pork".  The reality for me is that food is part of the celebration, and unless my health was very bad, I wouldn't concern myself with it for that time period.  I also assume that I wouldn't have to make that choice at every meal.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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Red Meat Eater
Monday, April 3, 2006, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I had this dilemma when I went to Italy recently.  My good intentions went right down the toilet.  The only Avoid that I managed successfully to Avoid was coffee and also pork.  Aside from that, I was eating bread EVERY DAY, I ate pasta.  And I would have eaten pizza but I was too stuffed from all the bread and pasta that day!!  I actually felt like c**p after just a couple of days of that.  My main concern however was gaining weight.  I'm obsessed with staying slim.  To my shock I LOST 3 lbs or more from eating all of that cr*p.  Would I do it again?  No.  I could really feel my health deteroriating with every bite I took.  The only saviors were the lamb and rabbit I ate.  


Kombu noodles are DELICIOUS (and wheat-free)
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mikendomsmum
Monday, April 3, 2006, 8:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I did it in Las Vegas.  The Wynn Brunch Buffet with Champagne was too good to avoid.  I ate mostly good stuff, roast beef, sushi, oh gosh, I can't even remember.  I had 3 glasses of champagne and then hit the dessert bar and had COFFEE.  It was fantastic. I got right back on track when I got home.  I was there for 3 nights and ate mostly compliant food so I didn't feel too bad.  Just a little tired.


Karen
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mikendomsmum
Monday, April 3, 2006, 8:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
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Oh, sorry, forgot to answer the question.  I'd take the compliant grains.  
I'm vacationing for about 3 weeks this summer.  Luckily, I'll be going to New Zealand and I can't wait to eat all that fresh lamb, my favorite.  Then we're off to Tahiti and I don't know what we'll be eating there.  Hopefully, a lot of fish and local veggies.  How bad is a coconut every now and then?  Some rum?  


Karen
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Monday, April 3, 2006, 9:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Especially seeing that you're a nonnie, I'd probably go for the avoid protein, but it's hard to imagine a place without chicken or turkey or some other at least neutral protein choice.  This comes into play for me mostly in situations with a fixed menu, such as a conference with meals included.  I really hate those and the meals are not usually optional.  Let us know where you're going.  Maybe someone has been there and can give you some options.  You could also carry some canned fish and jerky with you and use either the Unibars or the protein powder.  I buy the single serving packets of the protein powder for travel.


Blogger Cheryl
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Patty Lee
Monday, April 3, 2006, 9:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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For me, the trouble was staying with people and not having access to the grocery...and not really wanting to cause a fuss.

My vote, incidentally, is a mix of compliant grain and avoid protein.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Monday, April 3, 2006, 11:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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That is a tough one.  I would also probably not want to make much of a fuss, but now that I've been eating cleaner, I really notice the difference when I'm eating avoids.  I would probably try to take a few servings of quality protein with me.


Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Patty Lee
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 1:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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New variant: Would you all eat cod if it was deep-fried and battered--after making a good attempt to pick off the batter?  Eat the mushy peas, avoid the chips?  (I was in the UK:  can you tell?)


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Laura P
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 1:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Back on first question I'd go avoid protien in a heartbeat, I think it all depends on what you know you are most sensetive to



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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RedLilac
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 2:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from cherylhcmba
Especially seeing that you're a nonnie, I'd probably go for the avoid protein, but it's hard to imagine a place without chicken or turkey or some other at least neutral protein choice.  This comes into play for me mostly in situations with a fixed menu, such as a conference with meals included.  I really hate those and the meals are not usually optional.  Let us know where you're going.  Maybe someone has been there and can give you some options.  You could also carry some canned fish and jerky with you and use either the Unibars or the protein powder.  I buy the single serving packets of the protein powder for travel.


Conferences are the worse for me.  I want to attend the lunch or dinner because of the program but they the only choice you get if you don’t want the selection, which is chicken 70% of the time (Major NO NO for a B like me) is a vegetarian meal that has pasta and tomatoes in it.  Overseas plane rides are even worse.  At least at a convention I can sneak out eventually and find something to munch on.  Keeping things in my purse like UNI bars or nuts help stave off the hunger.  If the only choice was an avoid protein vs. grain, I’d choose the grain, but that works for my system.  You know what bothers you more.


I am B- NON-Sec Explorer; my son is B+ SEC Nomad; my Mother was O+; and my Father was AB-
SWAMI Thanksgiving present 2008
Revised from Arlene B- NonSec to RedLilac on 3/31/06
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Victoria
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 3:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from plhartless
New variant: Would you all eat cod if it was deep-fried and battered--after making a good attempt to pick off the batter?  Eat the mushy peas, avoid the chips?  (I was in the UK:  can you tell?)


That would be a Yes for me!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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OSuzanna
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 4:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria


That would be a Yes for me!  


Me, too!


OSuzanna
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Carol the Dabbler
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 4:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you're trying to be nice to the people you're staying with, then (in addition to not making a fuss) you'll presumably want to avoid making a fool of yourself.

Once a month, our local vegetarian group has a pitch-in dinner.  The first three meetings after I started the BTD, I was able to pick & choose, and stayed reasonably compliant.  The next couple of meetings, absolutely everything (except what I had brought) had at least one Avoid in it, so I said what the heck, and had some of everything, with no major ill-effects.

Last month, I figured I could once more eat some of everything, so I did, and about an hour later, I began to feel so sleepy that I finally rested my head on Hubby's shoulder.  Then somebody told a joke -- not a terribly funny joke, in retrospect -- and I got a major case of the giggles, to the point where I ended up with my head in Hubby's lap, unable to stop giggling.  It was like being drunk or stoned.  Fortunately, it wore off within half an hour or so.  Fortunately, I was with friends.  But still ....

I'm trying to figure out just what it was that had that effect on me, so that in the future, I can avoid it like the proverbial plague when I'm in polite society.  My best guesses would be the whole-wheat pitas or the hummus (or perhaps the who-knows-what in the chili).

But my point is, you probably have a pretty good idea of which foods have what sort of effect on you (or at least, you're in the process of finding out).  So you may want to take behavorial considerations into account when you're deciding what to eat and what to avoid.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

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Lloyd
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 5:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from plhartless
New variant: Would you all eat cod if it was deep-fried and battered--after making a good attempt to pick off the batter?  Eat the mushy peas, avoid the chips?  (I was in the UK:  can you tell?)


I did the KFC buffet taking the skin/breading off my chicken a couple times. Crude to be sure, an emergency thing only. Even the little bits of the 11 herbs and spices that I got were felt and regretted. Lesson learned.

On the other hand, eating the neutrals without meat is okay for a day or two. Over a three week stretch I would eat pork if I had to in order to get the protien. Thing is, you should be able to get some form of neutral protien most places.
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EquiPro
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 1:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from plhartless
New variant: Would you all eat cod if it was deep-fried and battered--after making a good attempt to pick off the batter?  Eat the mushy peas, avoid the chips?  (I was in the UK:  can you tell?)


I'm bad.  I'd just eat it, batter and all.

I LOVE batter-fried fish.





FRESH START TODAY!!!
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mikendomsmum
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 2:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
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Yeah, you cant' really do much with that meal.  Eat it.


Karen
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italybound
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from igbogirl
I had this dilemma when I went to Italy recently.  My good intentions went right down the toilet.    Aside from that, I was eating bread EVERY DAY, I ate pasta.  And I would have eaten pizza but I was too stuffed from all the bread and pasta that day!!  I actually felt like c**p after just a couple of days of that. .  I could really feel my health deteroriating with every bite I took.  .  


This will be me when I make my trip to Italy. My "fix" will be to be as compliant as I can be before I go. I know once I get there, I'll just be able to kiss the compliancy goodbye to a certain degree. I don't think I'll indulge in pork, but the bread, oh yes!!  As E/P said, it's vacation, I'm going to enjoy myself and "die" later. I also know that at some point I'll back off. After being really compliant, any avoid I eat really gets to me. I'd get right back on the wagon when I got home --- really what choice would I have --- I'd feel like total cr** after eating all those avoids. Oh and a big bottle or 2 (ha) of Deflect.
To answer the original ?, I'd do the half and half thing as well.
KFC I totally avoid. Wound up in the ER the last 2 times I ate there. All I can figure it that I'm terribly allergic to something they use. No need to find out what or test it again. It's been 10 yrs probably since I've eaten there.



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Victoria
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 5:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Just a thought.
I notice a general trend on the forum that the secretors seem to be more comfortable being lax at times (For example, vacations) than the non-secretors.  I believe that non-sec. are more severely impacted by eating avoids.  For some of us, it can have very long lasting negative impact, and at times can have serious consequences.
That's why I would Always! pick off the crust from deep fried fish, even though I Love! deep fried cod, and I can't stand it otherwise.  Health tastes better to me than that delectable crust!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 10:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Victoria
Just a thought.
I notice a general trend on the forum that the secretors seem to be more comfortable being lax at times (For example, vacations) than the non-secretors.  I believe that non-sec. are more severely impacted by eating avoids.  For some of us, it can have very long lasting negative impact, and at times can have serious consequences.
That's why I would Always! pick off the crust from deep fried fish, even though I Love! deep fried cod, and I can't stand it otherwise.  Health tastes better to me than that delectable crust!


Victoria I totally agree with your observations about nonnies vs. secretors.  And to represent my secretor status I must confess that I would probably go for the cod batter and all, just not on a routine basis.  I rarely have fish and chips at a local restaurant.  It's made with cod.  I sub a salad for the waffle fries, since I gave up fries long ago.  They also serve an apple cider slaw which is very lightly dressed with apple cider vinegar and sugar, no mayo.  Most of the time I have grilled rainbow trout and veggies at this restaurant, but the fish in fish and chips is a favorite.  Thankfully they don't serve up a lot of the crumbly batter on the side, so I just have what's on the fish.  While I'm breaking the rules, I go ahead and have a Guinness Stout. As discussed in another thread, at least the dark beer has lots of antioxidants and in ER4YT it was a neutral, so might as well go for the full experience.  The first beer I liked was dark beer served at a fish and chips place, so the combo is a must for me.  As a lax secretor, I'd have no problem justifying the fries, since potatoes are a Type II avoid for me, but I don't enjoy them enough.  I'm very selective about my cheating.


Blogger Cheryl
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote

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Vicki
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Victoria, I agree.  Avoids may make me feel so sick as to cause me to lose out on the trip.  Packing food is always important.  Homemade jerky is an easy protein to take on the go.  An O non-secretor wouldn't do well to go without protein for a few days.  
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Victoria
Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 12:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Once I made peace with the fact that "I Am A Nonnie!", my life became much more simple.  I can't and don't play food games with myself, because I am fully aware of the consequencies of my choices.  If I had not learned about secretor status, I would have continued to be chronically under the weather with steadily declining health.  Even as a compliant eater (assuming that I was a secretor), I was going downhill.  I was eating delicious fresh-baked Italian breads, dairy-based desserts made with sugar, Cafe' Latte's with sugar, grated cheddar and Jarlsberg cheese and getting sicker and sicker.  

One week after I discovered that I was a nonnie, my health had already turned for the better, because now I was Really eating no avoids, and it showed!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Laura P
Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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some of us just have to be more careful



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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italybound
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 1:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from cherylhcmba
I'm very selective about my cheating.


A woman after my own heart. Why just tonight I turned down cauliflower because I'm not supposed to have it, but I fully intend on having a Starbucks coffee for my trip this weekend. Bad, bad, bad. Of course, I'll be really good before and after. Even passed up a bunch of stuff, including the almond milk, w/ gums and carageenan per Victoria's advice.  



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Victoria
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Quoted from pkarmeier


A woman after my own heart. Why just tonight I turned down cauliflower because I'm not supposed to have it, but I fully intend on having a Starbucks coffee for my trip this weekend. Bad, bad, bad. Of course, I'll be really good before and after. Even passed up a bunch of stuff, including the almond milk, w/ gums and carageenan per Victoria's advice.  


Enjoy your Starbucks, Pat!!  

And I hope the absence of gums and stabilizers helps heal your sinuses.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Patty Lee
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 12:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm a selective cheater, too.  Amazing how easy it is for me to have a couple of potatoes or some wheat now and again or sugar, but boy, am I good about avoiding cauliflower and fava beans.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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italybound
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Quoted from plhartless
I'm a selective cheater, too.  Amazing how easy it is for me to have a couple of potatoes or some wheat now and again or sugar, but boy, am I good about avoiding cauliflower and fava beans.


, oh, this is sooooooooooooo me...................  some things that are avoids, you'll never catch me eating, others, like patty lee, yep, I'm gonna eat or drink them now and again.      At least I don't stop at every Starbucks I see. Passed up 2, count 'em - 2, the other day. Usually the car just pulls right in, on it's own mind you.    That day,  I fought and took control of ye ol' car.  



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Beouemom
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 12:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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To me it is all about choices and each choice leads to its own chain of events be they good or bad.  

(not sure of the spelling for it's)

Thanks Carol for the help. See post below.   The reason I was confused was I wanted its to show possession and its did not fit the rule of 's  


Beouemom sounds like bay way mom and I think Colorado is a great place to live.  

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"Its" means "belonging to it" (like "his" or "hers" -- no apostrophe).

"It's" means "it is" (like "he's going" or "she's going" -- with an apostrophe).


Quoted from Beouemom

The reason I was confused was I wanted its to show possession and its did not fit the rule of 's



That's because you were thinking of possessive nouns, and the rule is different for possessive pronouns -- just think of his, hers, ours, yours, theirs -- no apostrophes.

I think the reason that we all have to stop and think about "its" and "it's" is that, except for the apostrophe, they are spelled the same, which is not true of other pronouns (e.g., his vs. he's, hers vs. she's).



Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

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lolla
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Quoted from Vicki
Victoria, I agree.  Avoids may make me feel so sick as to cause me to lose out on the trip.  Packing food is always important.  Homemade jerky is an easy protein to take on the go.  An O non-secretor wouldn't do well to go without protein for a few days.  


Sorry Vicki, what do you mean with homemade jerky?
I always have the problem of pack some food, can you share any protein suggestion?

Yesterday evening at the restaurant I had the choice (!!!) between beef or pasta....
I do not like any of them but I had to eat something.... I took the beef.... for sure this morning I feel really really sick!
What should have I done?

Thanks

Lolla
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Patty Lee
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Ee Dan
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For an A, I would say that you should probably choose grain over avoid protein, since your body is much less able to handle processing meat that, say, mine.  I can't process grain well.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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White pasta doesn't seem to bother me particularly, if I have it just once in a while -- which I do (did tonight, in fact), since it's fairly ubiquitous in restaurants.

Beef (back before I was a vegetarian) used to give me diarrhea, and it had the same effect on Hubby.

So I'd say, go with the pasta, especially if it's white rather than whole-wheat.


Carol

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CB
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I take food with me almost every where I go.  Almonds, walnuts, compliant bars, not necessarily the Unibars which stick to my teeth.  The thing I really need is some amaranth bread occasionally.  Do we a recipe in the database Nina?  Sometimes Sweet Potato chips, veggies.  Traveling by car or plane.  And plenty of water.  Once when I flew west, I had to transfer some food to another suitcase as I was over weight limit.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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CB -- Your signature mentions that you have a recessive O gene.  Is there a test for that, or do you know that only because one of your parents is/was an O?


Carol

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I don't believe there is a test.  I had serology done by Southwest Naturopathic Medical College and again by Dr. D'Adamo.  I know there there is a recessive gene because my mother is a B with siblings who are O and B.  And my father was a A.  Since I'm an A from my father, then my mother must have been Bo.  Not so easy for some people to determine.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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pinemeadows
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I am really surprised at some of the responses...and am just trying to understand them.  

(Now remember this...you can't see me, but I have a smile on my face, so don't take this as some kind of attack!)

Why on earth would you ever chose an avoid over a neutral???  I don't understand the obsession (or so it seems to me) with the protein thing.  Hubby is an O on this WOE, so I understand how necessary meat is for him.  But when an avoid is doing all its damage, does it really matter what food group its in?  Why would you want that kind of damage in your body just because it's protein?  Please help me here!  

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Quoted from pinemeadows
Why on earth would you ever chose an avoid over a neutral???


My thoughts exactly...  Meat is not the be all and end all of the O diet - vegetables and fruit are much more central...


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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CB
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It's my belief that when people get into food situations they are not prepared for, the avoids are sometimes selected.  Put a plate a mashed potatoes near me (like dear old mom used to make) and doubt if I would resist.  The other is when something is beneficial for another in the family and avoid for us and the avoid is prepared for the other member(s).  And then occasionally, it's like 'go for it'.   Take care. CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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Vicki
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Here's my viewpoint:

In the example, I'm thinking of someone who is very hungry. They've been active and have no food with them.  They are also a non-secretor.  Rice will give a non-secretor blood sugar problems, whereas, let's say, grilled barracuda, will have lectin problems but not blood sugar problems.  The large amount of rice may also lead to cravings that last for days (or longer for some people) before one is able to break the cycle.

We are talking about ONE MEAL in the above example, not a recurring event.

I always eat before going out to unknown places/parties/etc.  I bring food with me when out and about (cooler in the trunk), etc.  I don't recommend eating avoids, but as a very hungry non-secretor, I'd take the fish over the rice in my example.  

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Vicki, I see your point.  Have you ever taken the Deflect product?  I don't know if it works or galectins which are found in meat, maybe fish, would need to check.  It provides sacrificial molecules for the lectins in foods, so that they don't provide as much harm.  Perhaps, having that at all times would help in times of trouble.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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Quoted from cb

I don't believe there is a test.  ...  I know there there is a recessive gene because my mother is a B with siblings who are O and B.  And my father was a A.  Since I'm an A from my father, then my mother must have been Bo.



Thanks, CB -- I've never heard of a test, but was hoping!

I suspect I'm also an Ao, but can't be sure, because my father is no longer living, and I haven't yet been able to find any records of his blood type.

My only "data" is a hazy recollection of my mother telling me that my father was an O and she was -- not.  I no longer remember what she said her blood type was, and she no longer remembers either of their types.  But if my recollection is accurate, then she must be either an A or an AB (though surely I would have remembered if she'd said AB), and I must be an Ao.

Somebody remind me to get a blood-type test kit next time I'm at the local health-food store, so I can at least test Mom!



Carol

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Patty Lee
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Ee Dan
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Vicki's got my thinking on this exactly.

I might add to that that I personally never NOTICE any effects from non-compliant meats, whereas I do feel the effects from compliant grains, at least as many as it would take to create a meal out of them.  That doesn't mean there aren't any effects, I realize.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
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Yes, some of the worst effects of avoids are not immediately noticable in the form of GI disturbances.  In an unusual circumstance, not as a routine choice, I think it's natural to go with the item that is going to give the least immediate problems.

So here's a new choice to make.  Both of these are avoids for everyone since both are ice cream, but with summer coming on, the cheaters of the group are bound to indulge now and then.  I've been happy to find to find Straus ice cream and felt pretty good because at least no guars, gums or carrageenan, not even carob bean gum that is an unknown.  Here's their description:

Vanilla Bean Ice Cream With flecks of real vanilla bean. Simple ingredients. No gums, no colorings. Just cream, milk, sugar, vanilla extract and those wonderful beans. All organic. Super delicious.

Then I was happy to hear there is goat milk ice cream.  Goat milk is a type II avoid so I could really convince myself that is OK for special occasions.  I do find Laloo's at my Whole Foods in a lovely beneficial black mission fig variety, but it has either guar or carrageenan, maybe both.

What would be the worst offense, the very clean cow's milk based ice cream or the goat milk ice cream with the yucky stuff?


Blogger Cheryl
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Victoria
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Alternate between the two, Cheryl ???  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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mikendomsmum
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Which one costs less?  Which has the richest flavor and is more satisfying?  


Karen
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Sounds like it's a toss up for Mike and Victoria as well.  I haven't tried the Goat Milk ice cream, but I guess I must at least try it, so can't really comment as to the flavor comparison.  The Straus Vanilla bean is really good and I like that it is such a simple product.  I'm a person that uses the allowed dairy servings anyway, but usually in the form of yogurt, goat yogurt if I can find it.  I'm luckily not an ice cream lover, but do get a taste for it every so often, usually in warm weather.  One good thing about both of these is that they only come in one pint packages, and they are both expensive enough that I'd never overeat on them too much.


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This brings up a question for secretors....

Does it matter that goat milk is a neutral for secretors and cow's milk is an avoid?  That is, if I'm going to screw up, should I screw up toward the goat milk?  (I tend to work on this method when cheese is tempting...I go for mozzarella rather than cheddar if the choice is available).

Or does it not matter at all?

As for the ice cream choice, man o man, Cheryl, I'd go for the cow, just 'cause it's probably tastier! But yes, as Victoria suggests, maybe alternate.  If you think about the proportion of avoids to neutrals, I suspect the goat milk one is better for you.  Unless you're very very sensitive to gums.


(formerly plhartless).

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Frozen banana put through the Champion Juicer is very nice as ice cream.  I put a minimum of two through at a time.  Also, you can use the Champion Juicer recipe book  to make other ice cream like concoctions.  As long as you eat it fresh from the juicer, the banana has the consistency of ice cream.  

You may be able to find an ice cream maker at a yard sale to experiment with you own compliant recipes.
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Quoted from plhartless
This brings up a question for secretors....

Does it matter that goat milk is a neutral for secretors and cow's milk is an avoid?  That is, if I'm going to screw up, should I screw up toward the goat milk?  (I tend to work on this method when cheese is tempting...I go for mozzarella rather than cheddar if the choice is available).

Or does it not matter at all?

As for the ice cream choice, man o man, Cheryl, I'd go for the cow, just 'cause it's probably tastier! But yes, as Victoria suggests, maybe alternate.  If you think about the proportion of avoids to neutrals, I suspect the goat milk one is better for you.  Unless you're very very sensitive to gums.


I don't know that nonnies can take any guidance from the variations for secretors, but I think if I were an O nonnie and going to cheat I probably would favor the goat products and the neutral cheeses such as mozarella, farmer's and goat cheese.  Those cheeses are at least neutral for everyone except O nonnies.  I do not envy you there.  Good point about the quantity of avoids, and I don't have obvious issues with the guars and carrageenan. But you're right that cow's milk ice cream I've found is delicious and probably as close as homemade as you'll get with no junk in it.  I've seen a simple recipe for making vanilla sauce that uses ice cream and an egg yolk.  I'm a sucker for any chocolate thing in a pool of vanilla sauce with a little rasperry swirled in.



Blogger Cheryl
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Quoted from Vicki
Frozen banana put through the Champion Juicer is very nice as ice cream.  I put a minimum of two through at a time.  Also, you can use the Champion Juicer recipe book  to make other ice cream like concoctions.  As long as you eat it fresh from the juicer, the banana has the consistency of ice cream.  

You may be able to find an ice cream maker at a yard sale to experiment with you own compliant recipes.


Here's a recipe for a banana frozen treat that just uses a blender, don't recall where I found it.:

Cocoa-Banana Frozen Dessert

The flavors in this simple dessert remind us of beach fare – frozen bananas on a stick coated with chocolate. This is a healthier version that you can whip up in no time at all. It contains no added sugar or dairy and is very versatile. Improvise by adding different flavors. Make this a few hours before you plan to serve - it's best when just frozen. Any leftovers will keep for a couple of weeks in the freezer.


4 very ripe bananas
2 tablespoons pure unsweetened cocoa powder
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
2 tablespoons real maple syrup

1. Peel the bananas and place in a blender or food processor along with the cocoa powder.

2. Add the vanilla extract and the maple syrup.

3. Blend till very smooth. Pour into individual custard cups or small bowls and freeze until just frozen.


Blogger Cheryl
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I find the plain banana tastes best with nothing added!  The difference between the blender and the Champion is that the Champion Juicer makes a "soft ice cream" texture.  It is wonderful!  Freezing after processing makes something that is too hard.  
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Ee Dan
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Yes, I'm not sure that I'd even like all the added sweetness from the maple syrup.  I would just find it hard to justify buying an avoid enabler like an ice cream machine.  I don't even think cold foods are very good for me. I also test out as a Kapha in Ayurveda.  They are recommended to eat mainly hot food. It's rare that I get a craving for something like ice cream, but it does happen.  The most compliant frozen treat I keep is Ciao Bella mango sorbet, nothing but mango and sugar.  I'd probably like it just as well without the added sugar though.


Blogger Cheryl
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Yeah - I haven't tried frozen mango, but that'll be next!  I'm sure it'll have a similar consistency as banana since they are in the same family.  We've been getting mangos for 50 cents each.  Stocking up to make dried mango (dehydrator).
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Quoted from plhartless
This brings up a question for secretors....

Does it matter that goat milk is a neutral for secretors and cow's milk is an avoid?  That is, if I'm going to screw up, should I screw up toward the goat milk?  (I tend to work on this method when cheese is tempting...I go for mozzarella rather than cheddar if the choice is available).

Or does it not matter at all?



Patty,
In LR4YT, cow's milk is a Tier 1 Avoid for nonnies, which is the worst offending avoids.
Goats milk is a Tier 2 avoid for nonnies, which, if you are in good health and not dealing with weight problems or advanced age, can be treated with more flexibility.
Nonnies are encouraged to follow both tiers, however, the fact that it is listed in Tier 2 makes me believe that it is less harmful for you.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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~Mary Jean Irion
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Don
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Quoted from Victoria
In LR4YT, cow's milk is a Tier 1 Avoid for nonnies, which is the worst offending avoids.
Goats milk is a Tier 2 avoid for nonnies, which, if you are in good health and not dealing with weight problems or advanced age, can be treated with more flexibility.
Nonnies are encouraged to follow both tiers, however, the fact that it is listed in Tier 2 makes me believe that it is less harmful for you.


The Tier groupings in LR4YT do not apply to the nonnie foods and mean nothing for nonnies. Nonnies just use the food values and ignore the groupings entirely.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Quoted from EquiPro
Hey, if I was on a wonderful vacation for 3 weeks, I would just eat whatever I wanted and whatever appealed to me until I was home.  Years down the road, I would look back on that trip and never once say, "gosh, it was a wonderful trip, but I sure wish I hadn't eaten the pork".  The reality for me is that food is part of the celebration, and unless my health was very bad, I wouldn't concern myself with it for that time period.  I also assume that I wouldn't have to make that choice at every meal.



That is fortunate for you!  I gained 10 pounds on my last vacation and felt so miserable it almost ruined my vacation!  Avoids are avoids, I would eat small amounts of the neutral grain and then find my way to a local market or starve.


Type O+, Non-Secretor, Haplo U5a1a, Explorer, Super-Taster, Virgo, and ESTP/INTP
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There are timeshares/condos for rent that have furnished kitchens for those of us who need to eat well no matter where we are.  Search it on the net!


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I've had the goat milk ice cream.  It's different. And expensive.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Quoted from slyparrot
There are timeshares/condos for rent that have furnished kitchens for those of us who need to eat well no matter where we are.  Search it on the net!


We do a little of both.  We usually get a condo just because of the kitchen and dining area.  I love to cook and it's fun to prepare the local foods.  We love Hawaii and we'll eat fish every night for dinner there, whatever the catch of the day is.  We also stock a bar and make coconut drinks for sitting on the lanai with.  A combo of healthy and unhealthy but all fun.  I don't believe in limiting myself 100% of the time to certain foods.  Balance is the key, I believe.  
Of course if I had an illness I'd do it differently and if by any chance I get cancer or something else, I'd follow the strictest diet to help myself get better.  But if I had an illness it's unlikely I'd be on vacation yupping it up.


Karen

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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Nonnie Clubhouse  ›  Choice: an avoid protein or a compliant grain?

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