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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Nonnie Clubhouse  ›  Choice: an avoid protein or a compliant grain?
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Choice: an avoid protein or a compliant grain?  This thread currently has 2,612 views. Print Print Thread
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 10:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 2,314
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Quoted from Victoria
Just a thought.
I notice a general trend on the forum that the secretors seem to be more comfortable being lax at times (For example, vacations) than the non-secretors.  I believe that non-sec. are more severely impacted by eating avoids.  For some of us, it can have very long lasting negative impact, and at times can have serious consequences.
That's why I would Always! pick off the crust from deep fried fish, even though I Love! deep fried cod, and I can't stand it otherwise.  Health tastes better to me than that delectable crust!


Victoria I totally agree with your observations about nonnies vs. secretors.  And to represent my secretor status I must confess that I would probably go for the cod batter and all, just not on a routine basis.  I rarely have fish and chips at a local restaurant.  It's made with cod.  I sub a salad for the waffle fries, since I gave up fries long ago.  They also serve an apple cider slaw which is very lightly dressed with apple cider vinegar and sugar, no mayo.  Most of the time I have grilled rainbow trout and veggies at this restaurant, but the fish in fish and chips is a favorite.  Thankfully they don't serve up a lot of the crumbly batter on the side, so I just have what's on the fish.  While I'm breaking the rules, I go ahead and have a Guinness Stout. As discussed in another thread, at least the dark beer has lots of antioxidants and in ER4YT it was a neutral, so might as well go for the full experience.  The first beer I liked was dark beer served at a fish and chips place, so the combo is a must for me.  As a lax secretor, I'd have no problem justifying the fries, since potatoes are a Type II avoid for me, but I don't enjoy them enough.  I'm very selective about my cheating.


Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
Texas


"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote

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cherylhcmba  -  Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 10:12pm
cherylhcmba  -  Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 10:09pm
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Vicki
Tuesday, April 4, 2006, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Victoria, I agree.  Avoids may make me feel so sick as to cause me to lose out on the trip.  Packing food is always important.  Homemade jerky is an easy protein to take on the go.  An O non-secretor wouldn't do well to go without protein for a few days.  
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Victoria
Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 12:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Once I made peace with the fact that "I Am A Nonnie!", my life became much more simple.  I can't and don't play food games with myself, because I am fully aware of the consequencies of my choices.  If I had not learned about secretor status, I would have continued to be chronically under the weather with steadily declining health.  Even as a compliant eater (assuming that I was a secretor), I was going downhill.  I was eating delicious fresh-baked Italian breads, dairy-based desserts made with sugar, Cafe' Latte's with sugar, grated cheddar and Jarlsberg cheese and getting sicker and sicker.  

One week after I discovered that I was a nonnie, my health had already turned for the better, because now I was Really eating no avoids, and it showed!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Laura P
Wednesday, April 5, 2006, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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some of us just have to be more careful



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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italybound
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 1:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from cherylhcmba
I'm very selective about my cheating.


A woman after my own heart. Why just tonight I turned down cauliflower because I'm not supposed to have it, but I fully intend on having a Starbucks coffee for my trip this weekend. Bad, bad, bad. Of course, I'll be really good before and after. Even passed up a bunch of stuff, including the almond milk, w/ gums and carageenan per Victoria's advice.  



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Victoria
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 3:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from pkarmeier


A woman after my own heart. Why just tonight I turned down cauliflower because I'm not supposed to have it, but I fully intend on having a Starbucks coffee for my trip this weekend. Bad, bad, bad. Of course, I'll be really good before and after. Even passed up a bunch of stuff, including the almond milk, w/ gums and carageenan per Victoria's advice.  


Enjoy your Starbucks, Pat!!  

And I hope the absence of gums and stabilizers helps heal your sinuses.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Patty Lee
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 12:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I'm a selective cheater, too.  Amazing how easy it is for me to have a couple of potatoes or some wheat now and again or sugar, but boy, am I good about avoiding cauliflower and fava beans.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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italybound
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 12:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
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Quoted from plhartless
I'm a selective cheater, too.  Amazing how easy it is for me to have a couple of potatoes or some wheat now and again or sugar, but boy, am I good about avoiding cauliflower and fava beans.


, oh, this is sooooooooooooo me...................  some things that are avoids, you'll never catch me eating, others, like patty lee, yep, I'm gonna eat or drink them now and again.      At least I don't stop at every Starbucks I see. Passed up 2, count 'em - 2, the other day. Usually the car just pulls right in, on it's own mind you.    That day,  I fought and took control of ye ol' car.  



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Beouemom
Thursday, April 6, 2006, 12:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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To me it is all about choices and each choice leads to its own chain of events be they good or bad.  

(not sure of the spelling for it's)

Thanks Carol for the help. See post below.   The reason I was confused was I wanted its to show possession and its did not fit the rule of 's  


Beouemom sounds like bay way mom and I think Colorado is a great place to live.  

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cherylhcmba  -  Friday, April 7, 2006, 12:30pm
corrected spelling on the word its and thanked my helper
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Carol the Dabbler
Friday, April 7, 2006, 3:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
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"Its" means "belonging to it" (like "his" or "hers" -- no apostrophe).

"It's" means "it is" (like "he's going" or "she's going" -- with an apostrophe).


Quoted from Beouemom

The reason I was confused was I wanted its to show possession and its did not fit the rule of 's



That's because you were thinking of possessive nouns, and the rule is different for possessive pronouns -- just think of his, hers, ours, yours, theirs -- no apostrophes.

I think the reason that we all have to stop and think about "its" and "it's" is that, except for the apostrophe, they are spelled the same, which is not true of other pronouns (e.g., his vs. he's, hers vs. she's).



Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

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lolla
Friday, April 7, 2006, 8:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Vicki
Victoria, I agree.  Avoids may make me feel so sick as to cause me to lose out on the trip.  Packing food is always important.  Homemade jerky is an easy protein to take on the go.  An O non-secretor wouldn't do well to go without protein for a few days.  


Sorry Vicki, what do you mean with homemade jerky?
I always have the problem of pack some food, can you share any protein suggestion?

Yesterday evening at the restaurant I had the choice (!!!) between beef or pasta....
I do not like any of them but I had to eat something.... I took the beef.... for sure this morning I feel really really sick!
What should have I done?

Thanks

Lolla
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Patty Lee
Friday, April 7, 2006, 2:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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For an A, I would say that you should probably choose grain over avoid protein, since your body is much less able to handle processing meat that, say, mine.  I can't process grain well.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Carol the Dabbler
Saturday, April 8, 2006, 6:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
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White pasta doesn't seem to bother me particularly, if I have it just once in a while -- which I do (did tonight, in fact), since it's fairly ubiquitous in restaurants.

Beef (back before I was a vegetarian) used to give me diarrhea, and it had the same effect on Hubby.

So I'd say, go with the pasta, especially if it's white rather than whole-wheat.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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CB
Saturday, April 8, 2006, 11:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I take food with me almost every where I go.  Almonds, walnuts, compliant bars, not necessarily the Unibars which stick to my teeth.  The thing I really need is some amaranth bread occasionally.  Do we a recipe in the database Nina?  Sometimes Sweet Potato chips, veggies.  Traveling by car or plane.  And plenty of water.  Once when I flew west, I had to transfer some food to another suitcase as I was over weight limit.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 5:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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CB -- Your signature mentions that you have a recessive O gene.  Is there a test for that, or do you know that only because one of your parents is/was an O?


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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CB
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 11:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't believe there is a test.  I had serology done by Southwest Naturopathic Medical College and again by Dr. D'Adamo.  I know there there is a recessive gene because my mother is a B with siblings who are O and B.  And my father was a A.  Since I'm an A from my father, then my mother must have been Bo.  Not so easy for some people to determine.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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pinemeadows
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 12:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I am really surprised at some of the responses...and am just trying to understand them.  

(Now remember this...you can't see me, but I have a smile on my face, so don't take this as some kind of attack!)

Why on earth would you ever chose an avoid over a neutral???  I don't understand the obsession (or so it seems to me) with the protein thing.  Hubby is an O on this WOE, so I understand how necessary meat is for him.  But when an avoid is doing all its damage, does it really matter what food group its in?  Why would you want that kind of damage in your body just because it's protein?  Please help me here!  

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Whimsical
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 1:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from pinemeadows
Why on earth would you ever chose an avoid over a neutral???


My thoughts exactly...  Meat is not the be all and end all of the O diet - vegetables and fruit are much more central...


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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CB
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 2:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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It's my belief that when people get into food situations they are not prepared for, the avoids are sometimes selected.  Put a plate a mashed potatoes near me (like dear old mom used to make) and doubt if I would resist.  The other is when something is beneficial for another in the family and avoid for us and the avoid is prepared for the other member(s).  And then occasionally, it's like 'go for it'.   Take care. CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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Vicki
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 5:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here's my viewpoint:

In the example, I'm thinking of someone who is very hungry. They've been active and have no food with them.  They are also a non-secretor.  Rice will give a non-secretor blood sugar problems, whereas, let's say, grilled barracuda, will have lectin problems but not blood sugar problems.  The large amount of rice may also lead to cravings that last for days (or longer for some people) before one is able to break the cycle.

We are talking about ONE MEAL in the above example, not a recurring event.

I always eat before going out to unknown places/parties/etc.  I bring food with me when out and about (cooler in the trunk), etc.  I don't recommend eating avoids, but as a very hungry non-secretor, I'd take the fish over the rice in my example.  

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CB
Sunday, April 9, 2006, 11:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Vicki, I see your point.  Have you ever taken the Deflect product?  I don't know if it works or galectins which are found in meat, maybe fish, would need to check.  It provides sacrificial molecules for the lectins in foods, so that they don't provide as much harm.  Perhaps, having that at all times would help in times of trouble.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,                        but by perseverance.

MIfhI  2007
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Carol the Dabbler
Monday, April 10, 2006, 3:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from cb

I don't believe there is a test.  ...  I know there there is a recessive gene because my mother is a B with siblings who are O and B.  And my father was a A.  Since I'm an A from my father, then my mother must have been Bo.



Thanks, CB -- I've never heard of a test, but was hoping!

I suspect I'm also an Ao, but can't be sure, because my father is no longer living, and I haven't yet been able to find any records of his blood type.

My only "data" is a hazy recollection of my mother telling me that my father was an O and she was -- not.  I no longer remember what she said her blood type was, and she no longer remembers either of their types.  But if my recollection is accurate, then she must be either an A or an AB (though surely I would have remembered if she'd said AB), and I must be an Ao.

Somebody remind me to get a blood-type test kit next time I'm at the local health-food store, so I can at least test Mom!



Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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Patty Lee
Monday, April 10, 2006, 7:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Vicki's got my thinking on this exactly.

I might add to that that I personally never NOTICE any effects from non-compliant meats, whereas I do feel the effects from compliant grains, at least as many as it would take to create a meal out of them.  That doesn't mean there aren't any effects, I realize.


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Monday, April 10, 2006, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Yes, some of the worst effects of avoids are not immediately noticable in the form of GI disturbances.  In an unusual circumstance, not as a routine choice, I think it's natural to go with the item that is going to give the least immediate problems.

So here's a new choice to make.  Both of these are avoids for everyone since both are ice cream, but with summer coming on, the cheaters of the group are bound to indulge now and then.  I've been happy to find to find Straus ice cream and felt pretty good because at least no guars, gums or carrageenan, not even carob bean gum that is an unknown.  Here's their description:

Vanilla Bean Ice Cream With flecks of real vanilla bean. Simple ingredients. No gums, no colorings. Just cream, milk, sugar, vanilla extract and those wonderful beans. All organic. Super delicious.

Then I was happy to hear there is goat milk ice cream.  Goat milk is a type II avoid so I could really convince myself that is OK for special occasions.  I do find Laloo's at my Whole Foods in a lovely beneficial black mission fig variety, but it has either guar or carrageenan, maybe both.

What would be the worst offense, the very clean cow's milk based ice cream or the goat milk ice cream with the yucky stuff?


Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
Texas


"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Victoria
Monday, April 10, 2006, 8:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Alternate between the two, Cheryl ???  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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